MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/79

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Content assessment

canceled by proposer
Let's be honest, Mario Wiki isn't the best at sorting articles based on quality. Featured Articles are supposed to be the best of the best, but when the only classifier below them are Stubs, the worst of the worst of, you have a massive gray area in the middle. Not to mention, some articles where improvements can be made, like Donkey Kong Country are Featured, while others that are decent, like Donkey Kong 3, are considered Stubs.

There are a few things worth keeping, such as voting on Featured Articles, but why only them? Shouldn't we vote on Stubs too? Actually, I'm not sure if classifiers should be added on the talk page, likeWikipedia or get voted on like Featured Articles. Maybe everything below Good Articles can be changed by anyone, but those have to get voted on? Having icons on the upper right corner is cute, but again, why isn't there one for Stubs? While clicking an icon on an article to find out it's well-written may give readers more trust in what they're reading, doing the same for Stubs may encourage people to help the article out.

So what's my solution and the point of this proposal? Content assessment, like on Wikipedia! This rough draft has six rankings: Featured articles, Good articles, B-Class articles, C-Class articles, Start-class articles and stub-class articles. Each classifier comes with a template and category that works the same way as that of Featured Articles. I'm not sure if individuals articles are needed for them, but that can be decided later. In fact, most of this proposal will have to. As a non-administrator, I have little power to carry out such a change, so this is less voting if you want this system added, and more do you want a system that expands on this added.

Edit: I've added a third option, Proposal B, also viewable here. Six categories is a little excessive, so I narrowed it down to four. Also, I'm not sure if the classifiers will be voted on, or just be changed, like Wikipedia.

Proposer: Sargent Deez (talk)
Deadline: October 1, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)

Proposal A

1. Sargent Deez (talk) Per proposal.

Proposal B

1. Sargent Deez (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

1. Camwoodstock (talk) We feel like needing to vote to count a page as a stub, let alone sort pages into some "A-grade", "B-grade", or "C-grade" is vastly overthinking things. Ignoring how subjective the concept is--what exactly is the cutoff for an A-grade to B-grade, or a C-grade to stub-grade--the amount of pages that would even quality for some of these (namely "Start-grade") are few and fleeting. As in, basically just pages for upcoming titles (so, Mr. E (Yoshi and the Mysterious Book) or Baby Waluigi) and nothing else--it is currently policy to actively delete any page that is simply created for the sake of filling out a redlink, so there's no other real way for a "Start-grade" page to exist. And... Let's be honest. Does anyone want to vote on upgrading a page from "C-grade" to "B-grade?" It would be a tremendous amount of effort for, comparatively, next to no payoff. Just because Wikipedia does something, does not mean we need to do it. Our current system of just stubs/rewrites, normal articles, and featured articles is just fine.
2. Hewer (talk) The point of having featured articles is so that we can put them on the main page. I don't see how adding other quality-based categories would provide any benefit. I also don't see how stubs relate to featured articles, the stub template is just meant to indicate that the page has information missing that someone should add. Voting on stubs would be a waste of time and effort that could instead be spent improving them into not-stubs.
3. Rykitu (B-class editor) (talk) Heavy per all. Featured articles make sense, but this is going a bit too far.

Make articles for the licensed songs in The Super Mario Bros. Movie

Make the articles 6-1
I'm suprised the licensed songs in The Super Mario Bros. Movie, like "Take On Me" and "Thudnerstruck" don't have article. While not original Mario songs, neither are most songs in Donkey Konga 2 yet they have article, so shouldn't they too? I've made a rough draft for a "No Sleep till Brooklyn" article. It needs work, and I welcome all to help on the draft, but gives an idea of how articles on licensed songs should look, keeping it Mario centered.

Proposer: Sargent Deez (talk)
Deadline: September 17, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)

Support

1. Sargent Deez (talk) Per proposal.
2. Rykitu (talk) If Donkey Konga game soundtracks have an article, these should too.
3. janMisali (talk) If "Walk the Dinosaur" gets an article for its appearance in the Super Mario Bros. movie then there's no reason not to do the same thing for the licensed music in the The Super Mario Bros. Movie movie too.
4. Colin's world 3 YT (talk) Per proposal and per janmisali
5. Salmancer (talk) We already opened the floodgates on music articles. The draft here is actually a better article than a number of our articles for Super Mario original songs. I think it would be lovely to have on the wiki, and anything else on the matter. Aside from that, it's not like the liscensed music is irrelevant to the film (even if the reviews generally responded negatively to it.) Someone picked the song, someone chose where it plays (or maybe the other way around) and someone approved of this being the right place to play whatever given song. Since The Super Mario Bros. Movie is full Mario media, that means the creative decisions that make it up are within our coverage.
6. Scrooge200 (talk) The scope is well-contained and these are part of an official movie. I see it as a similar way to our crossover articles.

Oppose

1. YoYo (talk) We recently just had a proposal pass asking for Nintendo Music pages to be split into a page for each soundtrack. It would be unusual to have that effect take place, but then instead have different pages for individual licensed music not even from the franchise have their own pages each. Instead, a page dedicated to all licensed music in a list, or simply listing the music on the movie's article and nothing more, is how I would handle this. These individual songs do not need their own dedicated pages each: even just a single Wikipedia link on the movie's page is more than enough. I personally have the same stance on the Donkey Konga 2 songs as well.

#Mario jc (talk) While I'm not opposed to covering the licensed songs per se, I'm more opposed to the scope of these articles you're suggesting with your draft. Adding a full composition and reception section is going too far and veers it out of Super Mario-related coverage when we should be giving brief context at most (what the song is and how the song performed is fine, but kept brief) and more focus on the song in relation to the Mario franchise (see actor pages such as Chris Pratt [which did have full early life and career paragraphs added at one point and removed for the same reason] - we don't cover their entire career and filmography). We have Wikipedia for that information.

Discussion

I'm honestly unsure what to vote for. On one hand, the Donkey Konga 2 music pages are also licensed songs, and only serve a fitting role in the greater Super Mario franchise in one piece of media. On the other hand, those pages have extra details, like length, BPM, and difficulty, things notable in video games but not in non-interactive media like movies. I think I'll just abstain for now knowing that I have feelings both for and against this proposal. Altendo 17:35, September 3, 2025 (EDT)

I don't think Donkey Konga 2 is a very good example to point to for precedent, as playable songs in a rhythm game are naturally more notable and have more Mario-relevant stuff to say about them than licensed songs in non-interactive media. However, we do have pages for licensed songs from the live-action film, Almost Unreal and Walk the Dinosaur, which are much more comparable to this situation. We also have lists of songs from each of the TV shows, of which two (The Super Mario Bros. Super Show and The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3) include licensed songs, and this proposal passed to split these lists into individual articles (though I'm not entirely sure if that was intended to include the licensed songs). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 17:57, September 3, 2025 (EDT)

Thanks for the information. However, Almost Unreal was made for the Mario movie, while Walk the Dinosaur had its lyrics modified for the movie. I don't think any of the songs in TSMBM got this treatment. Altendo 18:06, September 3, 2025 (EDT)

I don't think it's accurate to go off what doesn't have articles, as none of the songs on Super Mario Compact Disco have any, despite being made for the album with explicitly Mario lyrics. I'd say a lack of interest is why few of the licensed songs in Mario movies have articles.  — 19:07, September 3, 2025 (EDT)

We're on the fence. Per Donkey Konga, it's not like licensed songs are out-of-bounds provided they can be directly linked to the Mario franchise, but then, what about Walk the Dinosaur, or any of the other tracks on White Knuckle Scorin'? ...In an extreme case, what about the music in SSX on Tour, which is all licensed music, without a single Mario-related track in the entire game, even in the Nintendo-themed course (due to how the game handles music?) This feels like something that should hold a bit more gravitas to it, we feel. We'd be fine if it was "licensed music is fine so long as there is at least one Mario-related track" since that would be a sanity check against SSX on Tour, but we can also definitely see that being a tad contentious. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 18:26, September 3, 2025 (EDT)

We don't need to worry about SSX on Tour because it has guest appearance coverage rather than full coverage, meaning that only the game itself gets an article and not any of its non-Mario-related content (the same reason we don't have pages for any of the playable characters except Mario, Luigi, and Peach). Also, as I mentioned in my above comment, Walk the Dinosaur has an article. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:54, September 3, 2025 (EDT)

what if we just have one big list article about the movie's OST, including licensed and non-licensed songs? — eviemaybe (talk) 10:30, September 4, 2025 (EDT)

That seems at odds with the consensus in this proposal. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 12:15, September 4, 2025 (EDT)

@YoYo: Covering Nintendo Music soundtracks (or any soundtrack releases) has never been mutually exclusive with covering individual songs on separate articles. Per this proposal, every theme on Nintendo Music is eligible for its own page (since they all they all have official names), and indeed many of them already have their own pages. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 08:08, September 5, 2025 (EDT)

Mario jc: Both the composition and reception sections are specifically on the song's inclusion in The Super Mario Bros. Movie. "Walk the Dinosaur" has information on the same things. The only thing that may be excessive are the differences between the original and the single artwork, which I added as I like having an identifying image.  — 23:49, September 6, 2025 (EDT)

Oh, so they are, sorry. It was late and I was reading both the draft and the Wikipedia article and must've gotten the two confused and somehow overlooked the parts referring to the movie. Mario JC 07:51, September 7, 2025 (EDT)

There's honestly no reason to have a page for every individual song, all their pages are mostly copy/paste and theyre not even mario material, and I feel it'll be much better if it was just one page listing all licensed music in games and movies and have them listed in a table, that would be much more convenient and more reasonable. The only exceptions would be songs with covers or unique renditions made for Mario media, like Walk the Dinosaur. User:RealStuffMister/sig 05:37, September 7, 2025 (EDT)

I believe many of the Donkey Konga songs are covers (and even if they weren't, songs in a rhythm game make sense to give their own articles since they're that game's equivalent of levels). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 06:01, September 7, 2025 (EDT)

Make a redirect to every article which has a sourced foreign name

do not make redirects 2-6
What I mean is, for articles which have sourced foreign names, like how Peach has "Princesa Pêssego" in Portuguese and has Super Mario World as source, "Princesa Pêssego" should redirect to Princess Peach. But, if it's the Koopalings, for example, their Portuguese name isn't sourced, so it wouldn't have amy redirect. And, for articles which have the same foreign name in a specific language as another, like galoomba and Goombob (Goombob's foreign name which I'm talking about hasn't been sourced, but you get the idea,) the subject which is most "used" by Nintendo is the one which gets the redirect, so, in this case, galoomba. Note I'm not talking about only Portuguese in this proposal. I'm also talking abiut Japanese, French, every language. And, also, I have a problem with wording, so, if you don't understand the proposal, please tell me and I'll try to explain more clearly.

Proposer: Balugio (talk) (blocked)
Deadline: September 17, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)

Support

1. Hewer (talk) Honestly surprised we don't already do this (outside of a few exceptions for whatever reason). These are alternative names for these subjects, which is the very thing redirects are meant to be used for. More redirects isn't a bad thing (I wouldn't describe server space as "precious"), and if we're affording disambiguations for things like SMS, I don't see the problem with doing it here. The oppose argument basically seems to amount to "it's too much work", which isn't an argument I'm a fan of. (Granted, this proposal should probably be treated like this one or this one where we just allow the redirects to be made and mark the proposal as "implemented" without having made every single possible redirect, since otherwise it'd sit on the "unimplemented proposals" list forevermore.)
2. Salmancer (talk) My qualms have been assuaged. This change would be helpful to people around the world, and as a digital wiki it comes at extremely low resource costs. (Has this wiki ever had an issue of server space? I don't think it has, and I don't think redirects are going to move the needle on that.) While recent changes and frequent users of it will be annoyed by this, the feature is ulimately meant ot be transient content, and therefore a temporary hassle to that page should not prevent a permanent improvement to the wiki.

#Balugio (talk) Per me.

Oppose

1. Altendo (talk) This is an English wiki. While I do understand the accessibility, creating what could be hundreds of thousands of redirects just for the sake of accessibility is not worth it at all. Not to mention that "the subject which is most 'used'" is incredibly vague and what if two subjects with the same foreign name are used just as equally? Does this constitute more disambiguation pages just for those? I don't think this is worth it just for a little more accessibility. The Search function can adequately show the parent page just from a foreign name, like how "Princesa Pêssego" only shows Princess Peach and her language page. I don't think creating redirects just for this purpose would be helpful, and if anything, they will likely just take up precious server space that could be reserved for much better purposes, on top of slowing things down a lot due to how both the creation and maintenance of these redirects and disambiguation pages solely for foreign languages will clog up Special:RecentChanges, as they will likely be the largest spot for wiki-scale operations performed by PorpleBot.
2. Rykitu (talk) Per Altendo.
3. Nintendo101 (talk) Per Altendo.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) The only context we can imagine this being useful are for things where there are multiple foreign names, but no English name... but like... in that case, you can presumably just make those redirects without proposal anyways, and the situations where that's true are very, very slim. Off the top of our head, it's basically just Shitamachi Ninjō Gekijō, which has "Lily Franky Theater" and "Lower City Empathy Theater" as valid Japanese names. This would only serve to clog the search bar.
5. YoYo (talk) per Altendo
6. LadySophie17 (talk) Per Altendo.

Comments

Answering Hewer about the “few exceptions” thing, I actually once got a reason from Mario JC for that. It’s a “notable” foreign name. The problem is, in other countries, names other than the English ones are notable, so it’s kinda nonsensical. Balugio (talk) 17:15, September 3, 2025 (EDT)

I'd argue that if it's official, it's notable. Otherwise we wouldn't be noting it. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 17:18, September 3, 2025 (EDT)

Exactly. Balugio (talk) 17:21, September 3, 2025 (EDT)

This sounds like a lot of trouble. We can barely keep our current redirects straight with all the page moves and content deletions that are eternally happening because the wiki is never complete, as you usually learn when a redirect takes the reader to the top of a page when the section it used to directly link to gets deleted. This proposal is slated to add thousands more redirects. Redirects, I might add, that are harder to maintenance than ones we already have because no single standard keyboard is equipped to handle every language the wiki supports in our Names in Other Languages sections. Most of the time, I use the search bar to bump into redirects, but that's a much harder option if I instead have to copy and paste text into the search bar from the bottom of each article. I think at some point, we can't make a redirect for everything someone could conceivably put into the search box, at least not without costs in terms of workflow which could cascade into usability concerns because we're spreading ourselves too thin. Salmancer (talk) 02:51, September 4, 2025 (EDT)

What do you mean you "have to" paste text into the search bar for these redirects? If your keyboard can't type out the redirect, you're not the person it's intended to help, and that's fine since you can just type out the actual name of the article to reach it instead. Either way though, if redirects in non-Latin scripts are such a problem (and I'll admit that their chance of being helpful would be quite small), we can just exclude them and only make Latin script redirects. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 04:36, September 4, 2025 (EDT)

I mean like how "when a section's name changes, every redirect that goes to that section will break and only take the reader to the top of the page, and redirects breaking in this way is difficult to track so the only thing that has these redirects being fixed is someone with an account using the redirect, realizing it broke, and replacing the redirect's destination with the new name of the section." You know, like how Donkey Kong Country Returns (3D) sections became Donkey Kong Country Returns (3D / HD) sections with the release of Donkey Kong Country Returns HD. And with names in other languages, there's very good reason to use section links, as there are plenty of names that are only used for one game. I guess being sent to the top of the page instead of the intended section isn't that bad but its still a problem that would make the wiki look worse to have. You are right in that I personally don't have to try to fix these broken redirects as they arise, but I fear the people who support this proposal will just make the new redirects and then never look back, and of the people who will use the redirects, a decent number of them will not themselves be wiki editors and thus those people/users will not fix them if they are broken. Salmancer (talk) 14:25, September 4, 2025 (EDT)

I really don't think linking to the top of a page instead of a specific section is that huge a problem unless it's a list article or something, there are honestly cases where I would prefer that. A redirect that gets you generally where you're trying to go is better than no redirect at all, perfect is the enemy of good. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 14:55, September 4, 2025 (EDT)

What about Template:Redirect and Template:Redirect-distinguish? Will those templates be added to new pages to account for redirects based on names in other languages? While we probably don't have to place "Kuribon or Goombruno may be referring to Goombob" at the top of Galoomba's page, there are cases where we might have to: Nanshī is both Raini and Zess T. in Japanese, Piattaforma girevole is Italian for both Single Swing Lift and Triple Swing Lift, and Ossec is French for both Honebon and Fish Bone. Nevermind the eternal problems "big enemies" cause us. Should there be a limit on the number of redirect templates on the top of the page, because having too many is bad? Maybe we make disambiguation pages for other languages, but that would be increasing the proposal's scope a bit. Maybe we just don't use Template:Redirect and Template:Redirect-distinguish at all? Salmancer (talk) 18:46, September 4, 2025 (EDT)

Is this not the entire purpose of those templates? I don't see the issue with just applying all our standard redirect procedures here. We even already do this in some language-related cases, look at the top of Vanna T.'s article. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:59, September 4, 2025 (EDT)

Rework Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2 appearance tables

Use Rework A 10-1-7-0
During a conversation in the Discord server, the idea of reworking how we list appearances for subjects in Super Mario Galaxy and its sequel Super Mario Galaxy 2 was floated. The current implementation uses a specially-made table standard (see below for example), but various users voiced several perceived flaws with its design, such as:

• utilizing icons for conveying information when text suffices;
• combining icons representing mission type and icons representing subject presence, with only the latter being listed in the key;
• arbitrarily using the Pull Star icon for something that is not a Pull Star;
• not conveying mission names without hovering over or clicking on the icons, alienating readers not familiar with the Galaxy games;
• relying on hover text, which is unavailable on touchscreen devices like tablets or smartphones;
• taking up a lot of space, to the point of needing a collapsible section most of the time;
• being inconsistent with how subject appearances are listed in other games.

EvieMaybe drafted up an alternative to it, and Doc von Schmeltwick (who created the original tables) drafted up an alternative to that alternative. With three competing options, the most sensible choice was to put it up to vote. Then Altendo suggested another option, making it four. See below:

• Goomba's Super Mario Galaxy appearance list at the time of writing, for comparison and posterity. As Goombas are the most common enemies in the game, it serves as a good benchmark for how large each format can get.

• marks missions where they are completely absent.
• marks missions where they are loaded and may be visible, but cannot be encountered directly.

Domes	Galaxies	Missions
Gate	Gateway Galaxy
Terrace	Good Egg Galaxy
Fountain	Space Junk Galaxy
	Rolling Green Galaxy
	Battlerock Galaxy
	Hurry-Scurry Galaxy
Kitchen	Beach Bowl Galaxy
	Buoy Base Galaxy
	Bowser Jr.'s Airship Armada
Bedroom	Gusty Garden Galaxy
	Freezeflame Galaxy
	Dusty Dune Galaxy
	Bowser's Dark Matter Plant
Engine Room	Gold Leaf Galaxy
	Bowser Jr.'s Lava Reactor
Garden	Deep Dark Galaxy
	Dreadnought Galaxy
Comet Observatory	Rolling Gizmo Galaxy

• Rework A, by EvieMaybe: Focusing on compactness, it exclusively represents information through text, avoiding the usage of icons or hover text. However, it sacrifices displaying mission types, mission numbers, and domes.

Goombas appear in the following list of galaxies. If no mission is stated, Goombas appear during all missions:

• Gateway Galaxy
• Good Egg Galaxy
• Space Junk Galaxy
• Rolling Green Galaxy
• Battlerock Galaxy (exclusive to "Topmaniac and the Topman Tribe")
• Hurry-Scurry Galaxy
• Beach Bowl Galaxy (exists in all missions, but only accessible in "The Secret Undersea Cavern" and "Wall Jumping up Waterfalls")
• Buoy Base Galaxy
• Bowser Jr.'s Airship Armada
• Gusty Garden Galaxy (exists in all missions but "Major Burrows's Daredevil Run", but isn't reached in "The Golden Chomp")
• Freezeflame Galaxy (exclusive to "The Frozen Peak of Baron Brrr", "Freezeflame's Blistering Core", and "Conquering the Summit")
• Dusty Dune Galaxy (exclusive to "Soaring on the Desert Winds")
• Bowser's Dark Matter Plant
• Deep Dark Galaxy (exists in all missions, but only accessible in "The Underground Ghost Ship", "Bubble Blastoff", and "Boo in a Box")
• Dreadnought Galaxy (exclusive to "Infiltrating the Dreadnought")
• Rolling Gizmo Galaxy

• Rework B, by Doc von Schmeltwick. Serving as a compromise between the current standard and Rework A, it takes up a lot more space and utilizes icons to convey information, but it does include mission types, mission numbers, and domes. It is also simpler to edit the current setup into it via search-and-replace due to similar structure.

• Gate
  • Gateway Galaxy
    • 1. Grand Star Rescue
    • 2. Gateway's Purple Coins
• Terrace
  • Good Egg Galaxy
    • 1. Dino Piranha (mission)
    • 2. A Snack of Cosmic Proportions
    • 3. King Kaliente's Battle Fleet
    • 4. Dino Piranha Speed Run
    • 5. Purple Coin Omelet
    • 6. Luigi on the Roof
• Fountain
  • Space Junk Galaxy
    • 1. Pull Star Path
    • 2. Kamella's Airship Attack
    • 3. Tarantox's Tangled Web
    • 4. Pull Star Path Speed Run
    • 5. Purple Coin Spacewalk*
    • 6. Yoshi's Unexpected Appearance
  • Rolling Green Galaxy
    • 1. Rolling in the Clouds
  • Battlerock Galaxy
    • 3. Topmaniac and the Topman Tribe
  • Hurry-Scurry Galaxy
    • 1. Shrinking Satellite
• Kitchen
  • Beach Bowl Galaxy
    • 1. Sunken Treasure*
    • 2. Passing the Swim Test*
    • 3. The Secret Undersea Cavern
    • 4.