MarioWiki:Proposals

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Current time:
Saturday, September 23rd, 04:08 GMT


Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), removals of previously added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Any user can support or oppose but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!"
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • All past proposals are archived here, while talk page proposals are archived here.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guideline Proposals must include a link to the draft page.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in or vote on proposals. Users may vote for more than one option on proposals with more than two choices.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
  10. If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that cancelled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined.


===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "August 8, 2011, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====


Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the Wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPPDiscuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{SettledTPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Talk page proposals may be closed by the proposer at any time if each voting option has fewer than five votes.
  5. The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
  6. When a talk page proposal passes, replace its deadline with "Passed" but do not remove it from the list below until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of talk page proposals

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Create articles on all of the Trouble Center missions in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

I'm proposing this in light of the comment Baby Luigi (talk) made here(backup link). Same deal as the other proposal, except now we're splitting off info on the Trouble Center.

Proposer: Toadette the Achiever (talk) (original concern voiced by Baby Luigi (talk))
Deadline: September 24, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Time Turner (talk) They have in-game names with clear-cut and definitive requirements, with not all of them being simple. Let's give them articles so that the information can be properly expanded. (per all)

Oppose

  1. Alex95 (talk) - I feel like the amount of information currently present on the page is enough to satisfy readers and those looking for information.
  2. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) The Trouble Center is mostly this information.

Comments

Miscellaneous

What is Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic?

Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic is, to make a long story short, a game that was altered to become Super Mario Bros. 2; though it did not originally contain any Mario subjects, Shy Guys, Pokeys, Bob-ombs, Birdo, and others all originate from this game. Due to the impact this game had on the Mario franchise, we cover it on the wiki, and I think we can agree on keeping it that way. At the same time, it currently exists in a limbo where we don't know to what extent we should cover it. There was a proposal that decided that covering the game's characters was too much, but at the same time, the article is a part of Category:Games not originally in the Mario series, with an emphasis on not originally; if it's currently a part of the Mario franchise, then we should cover it to that extent. MarioWiki:Coverage doesn't even bring up the game, so there's no help there. Still, if we use the sections of the policy page as a guideline, we may be able to decide for ourselves what is Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic. Here are the logical options:

Option 1: It is a full-fledged member of the Mario franchise.
If this option is chosen, the game will be considered to be a member of the broad Mario franchise, albeit one that is not part of any specific series (similar to Super Princess Peach). Though it was not a Mario game at the time, you can think of it as having been retroactively included into the franchise. As such, any unique characters, items, and other subjects will also be given individual articles alongside the game's article.

Option 2: It is a crossover with the Mario franchise.
If this option is chosen, the game will be treated as a crossover between the Mario franchise and some other nebulous series (it'll end up in the same section as the Mario & Sonic series and the Super Smash Bros. series). This partially relies on the assumption that the Mario subjects within the game have retroactively become members of the Mario franchise and not something that the Mario franchise appropriated. [edit]At the same time, the characters and motifs of the game can be considered to be from the actual Yume Kōjō event.[/edit] Like option 1, all of its subjects will get articles; this just affects which categories it'll be slotted into and other such details.

Option 3: It only contains guest appearances of the Mario franchise.
If this option is chosen, the game will be treated as containing guest appearances (à la Captain Rainbow and SSX on Tour). This is very similar to option 2, except the argument now is that the Mario franchise's impact on the game isn't substantial enough to constitute a crossover. As with other guest appearances, the game itself will be given an article, but none of its subjects will be given an article. In short, nothing much is actually affected beyond categories and other such details.

Option 4: It is part of a group unto itself.
If this option is chosen, it shall be deemed that the game is not part of the Mario franchise, not a crossover, and does not feature guest appearances, yet all the same, it is something worth covering on the wiki. MarioWiki:Coverage will be updated with a short section under "What the Super Mario Wiki covers" that describes the game's historic role in the franchise while explaining why it is being covered on the wiki. A bit of time can also be spent explaining why similar games, such as Panel de Pon, aren't being covered on the wiki. I don't want this to be the "Yume Kōjō" exclusive section, but rather something that potentially leaves some open space for other games should they ever turn up (or Panel de Pon if we decide to give it its own article again). Since it's not a part of the franchise, the game will be treated like one of the guest appearances: only the game itself gets an article. I can provide a write-up if requested, but I think this is clear enough.

Option 5: It is perpetually in limbo (do nothing).
If this option is chosen, nothing happens. Well, this proposal will be archived, but that's it.

If you're questioning why we need to decide where this game belongs, then I'll answer that it's better than having a game wrapped up in contradictions, existing someplace where nobody really knows what to do with it. Let's nip this one in the bud, shall we?

Proposer: Time Turner (talk)
Deadline: September 23, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Option 1 (fully part of the Mario franchise)

  1. Time Turner (talk) We'll say it's been grandfathered in.
  2. Baby Luigi (talk) The debate reminds me of the whole Donkey Kong kerkuffle in nerd circles debating whether it is a Mario franchise game or not, and yet we do include it as part of the greather Mario franchise as well because of its roots that kicked off the Mario franchise. I think the same logic there can be applied here. The fact that Doki Doki Panic even first started off as a Mario prototype before the people who owned Doki Doki Panic requested that their characters be used should tell you that the game was intended to be part of the Mario franchise to begin with and what they were going with this title. The proposal also mentions the legacy of the game to the other Mario titles and I completely agree with its very strong influence it has on the Mario franchise. I think this option is the best choice for coverage purposes.
  3. Niiue (talk) Per all.
  4. Camwood777 (talk) - This generally seems the most accurate to how it's treated nowadays.
  5. Yoshi the SSM (talk) Per all.
  6. Chester Alan Arthur (talk) Per all

Option 2 (crossover)

#LinkTheLefty (talk) Doki Doki Panic is Super Mario Bros. 2 and could even share the template - but the Yume Kōjō-themed branding and the use of their family characters does make this version of the game a crossover.

Option 3 (guest appearance)

Option 4 (entirely separate)

  1. Time Turner (talk) Since it's not technically actually a part of the franchise, this is the next best thing.
  2. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Per Time Turner.
  3. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per Time Turner.
  4. Alex95 (talk) - It may not be part of series itself, but it still had some impact on at least one game in the main series.
  5. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  6. Shokora (talk) Per all.
  7. Yoshi the SSM (talk) Per all.
  8. Mister Wu (talk) Started as a tech demo for a Mario-style platform game, but didn't end being a Mario platform game because of various reasons mostly related to Yume Kōjō, yet then it was later reworked to become Super Mario Bros. 2; I think it deserves to be considered its own thing not to force the criteria of inclusions in the other categories too much - after all, only subsequently to its release did many of its elements become part of the Mario franchise.
  9. MrConcreteDonkey (talk) - Since it's based on Yume Kōjō I'd say it belongs more to that than the Mario series. Per all.
  10. LinkTheLefty (talk) Taking Doki Doki Panic as a Mario game is like taking Panel De Pon as a Yoshi game. Still, even though the latter's recent removal complicates things, it deserves special coverage. Per all.

Option 5 (do nothing)

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) It doesn't really fall under any of the aforementioned categories perfectly, and I'm fine with the way it's currently represented.
  2. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) I agree with Doc von Schmeltwick (talk). I'd rather do nothing because the history of this game is very complicated and very intertwined with the Japanese and North American SMB2 games and Mario franchise in general. I think this will take months of analysis weeks of discussion before we can be more decisive and enforce a category. It fits in more than one category, and this proposal wants to converge into one only. One week is insufficient.

Comments

@Doc: How is it being represented now? There's no consistency to it currently, at least not as far as I can see. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 18:46, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

It's represented as having a vague relation to the series, which it does have. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:10, 16 September 2017 (EDT)
We're not helping anyone by saying that it is vague and ill-defined and leaving it at that. Besides, just because the game itself is vaguely defined doesn't mean we should also vaguely define it. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 19:12, 16 September 2017 (EDT)
The problem is none of the proposed categories accurately describe it. What it is is a Mario tech demo turned non-Mario game with a few Mario elements in it, that would later be reconfigured into a full Mario game. That's the most accurate descriptor. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:32, 18 September 2017 (EDT)

The history of this game is very complicated, more complicated than Tetris Attack, which makes it very hard to put that information in a satisfactory spot on Super Mario Wiki. Why isn't this on the article's talk page? --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) (Stats - Contribs) 21:25, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

I opted to slot it here due to the potential impact it may have on our coverage policy + it's more apparent as a precedent. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 21:26, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

I agree with the notion that Doki Doki Panic can now be considered a full-fledged member of the franchise (it is Super Mario Bros. 2 and released a mere one year prior with Mario elements and influence already in it), but at the same time, I'd also say the pesky Yume Kōjō branding technically makes it something else. I'm considering taking the crossover option, but I also noticed that Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix isn't considered a crossover despite the DDR title. Is there a reason for that? LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:45, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

I don't rightfully know, to be honest. Maybe because, despite the name, everything in it is decidedly from the Mario franchise (besides the rhythm gameplay, although the franchise is no stranger to that)? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 21:49, 16 September 2017 (EDT)
Then my guess is that there are no established DDR characters to consider it a crossover - but if that's the qualifier, Imajin being the mascot of the festival is enough for me. LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:22, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

@Wildgoosespeeder: What is exactly is going to be analyzed during those months? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 23:53, 16 September 2017 (EDT)

We need a lot more discussion time than just a week. That's what I am hoping for. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) (Stats - Contribs) 23:57, 16 September 2017 (EDT)
What are you hoping to discuss during those months? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 23:57, 16 September 2017 (EDT)
This proposal seems very complicated what you are hoping to achieve. So many options. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) (Stats - Contribs) 00:02, 17 September 2017 (EDT)
Please answer the question; I am genuinely curious what you wish to discuss for several months. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 00:03, 17 September 2017 (EDT)
Then I don't have the answer you are looking for. A one-week proposal with vague options just sounds hasty to me. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) (Stats - Contribs) 00:06, 17 September 2017 (EDT)
What about the proposal is vague? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 00:07, 17 September 2017 (EDT)
It sounds generalized. Also, we can vote for more than one option. I agree that a lot of the options apply to the game, but this is looking like you want it to apply to one option only in the end. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) (Stats - Contribs) 00:10, 17 September 2017 (EDT)
Can you elaborate on what you mean by the proposal being "generalized"? Also, what is the issue with letting people potentially vote for multiple options? The point of a proposa is that the community votes on what to do, and I don't see how the multiple options take away from that. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 00:23, 17 September 2017 (EDT)

@Mister Wu: Except DDP does contain Mario elements, such as Super Stars and POW Blocks. Niiue (talk) 19:55, 19 September 2017 (EDT)

Indeed, but what you're saying doesn't ultimately contradict what I wrote here as a reason - having Mario elements doesn't make it automatically a Mario game, otherwise we should include Sonic Lost World among the Mario games, since it features one of the most relevant Mario species, Yoshis, and a lot of enemies and mechanics from both Yoshi's Story and Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island.--Mister Wu (talk) 20:07, 19 September 2017 (EDT)
As an aside to this conversation, perhaps Sonic Lost World could be considered a guest appearance? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 20:40, 19 September 2017 (EDT)
Only as DLC for one of the two releases. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:45, 19 September 2017 (EDT)
That doesn't change things much, we're covering characters of SSB4 who only appeared as DLC, so DLC is still considered part of the game, at least on this wiki. And the Yoshi's Island Zone has some mechanics from the Yoshi games, suach as the flowers changing the goal ring and eggs coming out of the Egg Blocks, so I wonder if just guest appearances is enough.--Mister Wu (talk) 21:09, 19 September 2017 (EDT)
There's also the difference in that the Smash Bros games are Mario-related by default, Lost World Wii U is only Mario-related through DLC alone. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:24, 19 September 2017 (EDT)
The Mario mash-up pack for Minecraft is also DLC. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 21:47, 19 September 2017 (EDT)
And that game is Minecraft, not a Mario game. The box says "Minecraft." Also, it was pre-installed on the disk, as I didn't have internet access when I first played it. Pretty sure. Still different point entirely. We cover Minecraft due to the Mario part of it, but it's incomparable with Doki Doki Panikku, due to its convoluted production history. Face it, it doesn't fit perfectly into any of the categories up above. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:17, 19 September 2017 (EDT)
I know; as I said at the start, this was just meant to be an aside. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 23:15, 19 September 2017 (EDT)
The fourth option indeed states that the game doesn't fit any category and thus a new one must be created. If you want a non-Mario game featuring Mario elements not as DLC there is The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening but really, having Mario elements never was an objection to my vote reason in the first place.--Mister Wu (talk) 06:07, 20 September 2017 (EDT)
What I see that as meaning is that it irretrievably has nothing to do with Mario. Even though it's a Mario tech demo that eventually became a Mario game again. It's complicated and the neat little categories here are an insult to that. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:04, 20 September 2017 (EDT)
Calling my proposal an insult seems unduly harsh. Who am I even insulting, anyways? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 14:14, 20 September 2017 (EDT)
The intricate history behind this game. The first option is "It's totally a Mario Game," second and third are "It has crossover/guest appearances from primarily things that weren't even Mario things yet," and fourth is "It's absolutely not a Mario game at all no matter how you look at it." None of these insinuate or can even include "Mario tech demo that became licenced to a different company to pay for it and as such became a non-Mario game, only to become a Mario game again when it was ported." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:48, 20 September 2017 (EDT)
What the game started off as is meaningless in comparison to what it is now. Star Fox Adventures started off as an entirely original game, but it's still 100% a Star Fox game regardless of its history. Heck, Donkey Kong was originally created with the Popeye series in mind, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who wants to cover Popeye on the wiki. We don't cover Yume Kōjō" because it happened to start off as a Mario tech demo, we cover it because many of its elements became core parts of the franchise, and that is what's relevant to us. Also, you haven't answered my question. An insult is meaningless if nobody interprets it as an insult, so who is insulted by this proposal? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 15:11, 20 September 2017 (EDT)
I am insulted by it. I suppose the closest we have to another example is the somewhat infamous "Super Mario 128" becoming Pikmin, if Pikmin was re-released as Super Mario 128 after reskinning. It's entirely complicated, and I am insulted by the fact that you're dumbing the complex history down. Yes, Mario is nothing but a parody of Popeye in conception, but it's different in that "Popeye" wasn't initially intended to be Donkey Kong, and Star Fox Adventures wasn't intended to be a Star Fox game in the first draft. The point is, DOki Doki Panikku was intended to be Mario in it's first draft, was released as-not-Mario, the released as Mario. It's a unique situation brought about by Nintendo's budget at the time coupled with how localization worked at the time. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:21, 20 September 2017 (EDT)

ok, so

1: "insulting the history" of a children's video game is pretty irrelevant to organisational decisions and it's such a bizarre and laughable thing to accuse someone of I couldn't help but chucke while reading it. If someone ever does a This Troper-style series of dramatic readings of mariowiki discussions I'm so telling them to do this.

2: In that Wired interview, Kensuke Tanabe refered to the original prototype as a "Mario-style" platformer, not that it was actually always a fully-fledged game in the Mario universe. Furthermore, going from what we know about Nintendo's development practice, it's possible the prototype was made without any branding in mind and was originally developed as an experiment to see if a platform game that took Super Mario Bros. formula of long scrolling levels and adapting it to a down to up format could be made fun and worth pursuing. It may seem like a nitpick, but considering people are using the prototype's supposed Mario origin as an argument, I think it's a nuance worth emphasizing. --Glowsquid (talk) 22:38, 20 September 2017 (EDT)

Saying something intended for all ages is a "children's" video game is also pretty insulting :Y Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:44, 20 September 2017 (EDT)