Talk:Hisstocrat

(First topic)

How is his german name?
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.83.60.108 (talk).

Only people that play the German version know. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:49, 24 November 2013 (EST)

Von Zischel is his name. MeincraftManu (talk) 17:33, 30 November 2013 (EST)

I think his minions are part of the Cobrat enemy family. they could be the the new cobrat enemy and then again. i could be wrong.

A Banquet with Hisstocrat

Should we have information of the level "A Banquet with Hisstocrat" here, like bosses from Donkey Kong Country series have their levels merged with their articles? MegaKoopa Talk 09:46, 13 December 2013 (EST)

Actually, the boss levels should be split from the bosses themselves. Levels =/= bosses. Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 14:47, 13 December 2013 (EST)

The Snake Minions

I think his minions are part of the Cobrat enemy family. they could be the the new cobrat enemy and then again. i could be wrong. - King Bowser Koopa

There's no official source for these though; this relies on speculation and we don't support speculation at the wiki Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 20:09, 24 December 2013 (EST)

Make a Hisstocrat's Minions article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

do not make hisstocrat's minions article 1-4
I feel that Hisstocrat's minions should have an article for themselves. They themselves are actually the main enemy in the fight, and are actually the key to defeating their king. I doubt that the names will be given in future Nintendo Directs, and I bought every single legitimate-looking Super Mario 3D World guide I could find. None of them had the names for these snakes, and even the official Prima Guide came to nothing more specific. I say that we make this article and put it under the conjecture template until we find the real names of these snakes. I am sure that Nintendo won't be giving us the names of these snakes for at least three or four years.

So, what do you think? Create the article or wait it out?

Proposer: KP (talk)
Deadline: January 13, 2014, 23:59 (UTC)

Support

1. KP (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

1. DonnyKD (talk) They do not do enough or are seen enough outside the Hisstocrat bosses to be worth giving an entire article to.
2. Zero777 (talk) Policy states that we should avoid as many conjectural articles as possible.
3. Randombob-omb4761 (talk) I think it should go in the Hisstocrat page because his minions have no offical name.
4. RandomDSplayer (talk) Per all.

Comments

@DonnyKD- I see your point, but then Lava Bud and Petit Piranha articles would not exist at all, to name a few, by your logic. --KP (talk) 14:40, 30 December 2013 (EST)

But those enemies actually have differing stats. These are just small enemies that appear mainly as platforms to hit the boss. But then again, we have an article on those ---ing trees in a race track that do even less than these enemies. Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 14:51, 30 December 2013 (EST)

See? I'm doing this for consistency in order to avoid a blue link for the Moving Tree page and no link for these guys who serve much more in the game. If this article can't be created, we should delete the Moving Tree article and much more of them too. --KP (talk) 14:59, 30 December 2013 (EST)

Seeing as there is also a Queen Histrocrat what about a Hisstocrat species page. Yoshi876 (talk)

I'm thinking that would also be reasonable, since there's the queen, the king, and the minion. --KP (talk) 15:04, 30 December 2013 (EST)

Hisstocrats' species is most likely just snake. I don't believe "Hisstocrat" could be a species. MegaKoopa Talk 20:42, 31 December 2013 (EST)

Species (continuation of above discussion)

"Hisstocrat" is a combination of "Hiss" and "aristocrat", so it can only refer to the king and queen, anyway. Thus far, they're unidentified snakes. User:8BrickMario

Queen Hisstocrat

Shouldn't Queen Hisstocrat be moved to her own article? I mean we got Gobbleguts and Fire Gobbleguts in separate articles despite them being the same guy but with a fiery power up, so shouldn't she have her own article since she's clearly a separate character? -The Forgotten Beast (talk) 13:34, 27 March 2014 (EDT)

Split Queen Hisstocrat from Hisstocrat

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

canceled by proposer
Yes I know Walkazo said yes to my suggestion but I'm making this a talk page proposal incase there's any reasonable opposition to this, and I know that several points can be made against this split, but I'll explain to people who aren't familiar with the game.

Queen Hisstocrat is simply a recolored "girl" version of Hisstocrat, true, but her boss fight involves fire rather than rock, something already more distinguishable from Behemoth and Behemoth King, both split articles where the stronger version is also a recolored variant (in this case, Behemoth King, simply just a red Behemoth). A good example for the split would be Gobblegut and Fiery Gobblegut or Dino Piranha and Fiery Dino Piranha, both redder and more fiery versions of their original counterpart, but get their own articles. She also gets her own name, Queen Hisstocrat, which furthers the argument that she should be split. Finally, she actually appears alongside Hisstocrat in a later boss fight level, making these two clearly separate individuals who therefore need separate articles.

Proposer: Baby Luigi (talk)
Deadline: November 24, 2015, 23:59 (UTC)

Support

1. Baby Luigi (talk)

Comments

Given all those points, there can't be reasonable opposition: just split the page. - Walkazo 14:48, 10 November 2015 (EST)

Okay then, just cancel the proposal and I will split the page. Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 14:49, 10 November 2015 (EST)

You can cancel the proposal yourself. Hello, I'm Time Turner.

Fine. Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 15:47, 10 November 2015 (EST)

Minions

Do his and Queen Hisstocrat's minions have a separate object from them? The encyclopedia does not separate them, and they seem to have a different model. --FanOfYoshi at 11:18, July 6, 2019 (EDT)

The blue one's minion is TentackTentacle and the pink one's minion is TentackTentacleLv2 (additionally, the blue Hisstocrat is TentackHead and the pink one is TentackHeadLv2). LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:56, July 6, 2019 (EDT)

Create page for "Hisstocrat Minions"

Same case with motley Bossblob, although we don't have official names or even mentions, I think they do deserve their own page, they are sufficiently different and if Hisstocrat works as king of these, we should have its page.Sorbetti (talk)

I would rather wee keep these subjects on one page. They are not highlighted in any official source - be it in Japanese or English - as a distinct subject, and they may be additional heads of Hisstocrat, based on the likely source of inspiration for the boss. Their identity as something separate from Hisstocrat is likely a misread, otherwise they would be highlighted in a licensed source. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:21, March 7, 2025 (EST)

I think we should mention them on the page, or else a proposal for both Hisstocrat and Motley would be betterSorbetti (talk)

It seems to me that they already are discussed in the Hisstocrat article. They are simply called "snakes" in it. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:14, March 7, 2025 (EST)

I totally understand your point and the fact that we don't have official material that mentions them makes it more complicated, however there are pages that have been able to be created without official material such as Big Frame Boo so I still have my doubts, what do you think we could do to clear this up once and for all?--Sorbetti (talk) 11:51, March 8, 2025 (EST)

i don't think this is a good idea. hisstocrat only appears in its battle and so do the snakes, it'd be needless splitting of information across two pages. — eviemaybe (talk) 14:38, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

A name for the Minions of Histocrat?

I was looking at a Spanish version of the Mario encyclopedia and in the description of Histocrat they are called Small Histocrat but in Spanish, in Spanish Histocrat is called "Su Serpenteza" and the encyclopedia calls them "Pequeñas Serpentezas", would this information be useful?Sorbetti (talk)

Seems like something you could add to NIOL. Technetium (talk) 10:21, March 17, 2025 (EDT)

what is NIOL?Sorbetti (talk) 20:08, March 18, 2025 (EDT)

Names in other languages. By the way, the equivalent to the Spanish/Japanese in the English version of the Encyclopedia (which we're slowly unbanning) generically refers to them as "smaller snakes". As it turns out, this is also how the snakes are referred to in the Prima guide (pg.89: "Eventually, smaller snakes will burst out from the ground near Hisstocrate"…"You can climb up the sides of these smaller snakes with the Cat Power-Up"…"A successful stomp causes all of the smaller snakes to retreat"…; pg.197: "Hisstocrat is also proactive about getting rid of the smaller snakes so you can’t set up a stomp.") I guess we have a match? I prefer "helper snake" though; pg.197: "In general, Hisstocrat and the helper snakes move much faster, meaning you’ve got less time to get into position to land a stomp." LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:18, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

I will relay what I shared on Discord. In my personal opinion, those "minions" are ontologically extensions of the Hisstocrat itself and do not benefit from having a page of their own. It's not highlighted in any official bestiaries, unlike Broode's Chain Chomp or similar subjects, and Hisstocrat in particular potentially takes design queues from Yamata no Orochi, which is a multiheaded serpent, so the other snakes may even be additional heads on the Hisstocrat, rather than completely separate individuals. They mechanically exist only to support Hisstocrat and I think they are best covered on the same page. I hole similar views for Small Fry Guys, which I think should be lumped with Fryguy on similar grounds. - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:20, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

Oh, no, I don't want to split this, either. I thought this was just looking for a better word to use for the minions. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:27, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

Split Chīsana Hebī Sunēku from Hisstocrat

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Do not split 4-7
Let's Start Hisstocrat is a boss in Super Mario 3D World. He's a Snake King accompanied by smaller snakes. These snakes don't have a clear recognition from Nintendo over time until the Mario Bros encyclopedia came out, in the Japanese version, they do receive a name. 小さなヘビースネーク=Chīsana Hebī Sunēku=Small Hisstocrat

I saw the argument that they were tentacles, given their internal names and the legend they're inspired by. But this argument is very far-fetched for what it is: they're snakes that Hisstocrat pulls out of the ground with his hissing noise.

1. here we can see how Hisstocrat makes a whistle to call his minions, If they were really tentacles, why would he need to call them to appear?

2. When Hisstocrat is defeated, the other snakes also die, so they are tentacles, right? No, the reason is simpler. In every Mario game, every time the boss is defeated, every enemy in the surrounding area also dies, so it's not a good argument.

3.There are three different types of Chīsana Hebī Sunēku

A. Is the normal one, which holds a plate, the player must climb through it, reach the plate and jump towards Hisstocrat

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B. They will hold a broken plate, if the player steps on the plate, it will break and Chīsana Hebī Sunēku will start to bite.

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C. When they come out of the ground they will start biting immediately.

• 

As you can see, it's quite a bit of information, keep in mind that I summarized it and that I didn't include the version with a Power Up and the Pink Versions of Hisstocrat Pink.

All this information isn't included in the hisstocrat article, but why should it be? If the article is about hisstocrat and also talks a bit about the fight, why have a space focused solely on his minions? Wouldn't their own page be better?

4. We have pages for minions with even more insignificant mentions, such as Green enemy, Slave Basa, Mechanical Fish, or Hammer (Wario Land 4).

5. I forgot this, but in Mario Kart World one of the karts makes reference to these enemies.

• 

And most importantly, after all, there can't be a king without troops to command, right?

Proposer: Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: May 1, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)

Sssssssupport(Support)

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.
2. Rykitu (talk) Per proposssssal.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Proposal. It always struck us as kind of strange just how much is merged into this article; the pink Hisstocrat makes a bit of sense, given how we handle other unnamed variants of 3D bosses like this, but the minions have... Less reason to be melded, especially now that we have an actual name (albeit a foreign one) that distinguishes them from the "main" Hisstocrat.
4. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.

Oppossssssse(Oppose)

1. Nintendo101 (talk) I think there is little concrete evidence that the smaller snakes are a subject distinct from the Hisstocrat itself, and until they show up in an undisputed, isolated context separate from the big snake boss itself, I would not support a split. It is notable that the "small Hisstocrat" is only described in the description for Hisstocrat, and it does not employ the traditional adjective used for the small variants of enemies, like "Chibi Kuribo," almost as if it is describing them in an informal sense. It is not listed separately in any bestiary, and none of the evidence indicates they are not connected to the same body as the main Hisstocrat boss. (It is a common, cute trope to have subjects with multiple heads be able to interact with them as if separate individuals). I remain unpersuaded until the little Hisstocrats/heads show up in something like Mario Party. Not an homage to them, but the real thing.
2. Pizza Master (talk) Like the royal bus and its driver and MC Ballyhoo & Big Top among other such subjects, these minions are not seen in a setting where Hisstocrat isn't present. A similar instance to this is Fry Guy and the "Small Fry Guy" that were merged a couple years ago. The issue isn't whether they're separate characters but whether they are ever seen apart. Unlike Mini Goombas which have been seen apart from Paragoombas, these minions can't say they've been seen apart from Hisstocrat. However, I do believe it should be noted in the names in other languages section of the Hisstocrat article.
3. PopitTart (talk) Per all. There's just nothing to say about these that isn't... describing the Hisstocrat's fight. I think the provided "exclusive element of a boss fight" examples should also be merged with their bosses.
4. EvieMaybe (talk) per all. also, their behavior is so simplistic that it's easier to wrap it into Hisstocrat's page to make the boss fight easier to understand.
5. PrincessPeachFan (talk) Per all.
6. Blinker (talk) Per Nintendo101.
7. Power Flotzo (talk) Per all.

Commentsssssss

@Pizza Master The Small Fry Guy proposal didn't happen years ago, it happened 5 days ago and I made it. The comparison between these two individuals is completely different, while Hisstocrat can be seen accompanied by his minions, Small Fry Guys are parts of Fry Guy that are formed when it is destroyed, a transformation, so it's not relevant even as a comparison, also according to your way of thinking you think it is better not to create pages for enemies exclusive to a Boss Fight, which is fine, everyone has their opinion, however as the wiki currently handles minions your comment seems that more than going against Hisstocrats Minions, goes against the creation of pages for enemies that appear in bosses, but as I mentioned before, the wiki handles it like that, so I recommend that you make a proposal regarding it, because you are not against my proposal, you are against the idea of pages like this which covers a more general concept and is outside of my proposal. Sorbetti (talk) 21:48, April 17, 2025 (EDT)

Right, my mistake. I read in the history that the idea to merge it was years ago and assumed. I'll make sure to accurately research next time. You're correct about my thinking regarding one-time Boss minions and I will wait about a month and a half later so as to not violate rule 9. (Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago i.e. this proposal and my proposal on merging the Kameks). -- Pizza Master (talk)

@PopitTart None of the features I mentioned above are mentioned in the Hisstocrat article. There's no mention of variants, no mention of the one that gives you a power up, no mention of the one with the fragile plate, or anything. And what's the point of adding this to the Histocrat page if, rather than talking about Hisstocrat or the fight, we're going to talk about the different types of minions that can be in the fight, and how to avoid or use them? Sorbetti (talk) 22:59, April 17, 2025 (EDT)

@EvieMaybe Is the page directed at Hisstocrat or his battle? And what's so simple about the mechanics of having to be alert to see which snake has a fake plate, or if the snake will attack, or always look for the snake with a power up? I still don't understand what's so simple about it. Sorbetti (talk) 23:39, April 17, 2025 (EDT)

The whole point of the opposition is that the snakes are so minor, there's really no point in giving them a separate article. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:59, April 18, 2025 (EDT)

I repeat, there are pages with much less information that also deal with boss enemies, but we have them too, so you are not against the proposal, you are against the idea of pages like this, which escapes what this proposal seeks. Sorbetti (talk) 09:52, April 18, 2025 (EDT)

So, if I'm against the idea, does that mean everyone else opposing is too? PrincessPeachFan (talk) 07:33, April 19, 2025 (EDT)

FYI, if this passes and you're going with the Japanese, I believe it should be "Chiisana Hebī Snake", per loanword transliteration and macron exception rules (too late to edit it within the proposal, I think). LinkTheLefty (talk) 02:57, May 2, 2025 (EDT)

King Hisstocrat?

It seems that the violet Hisstocrat is now called King Hisstocrat instead. Could this mean that the smaller snakes will be called Hisstocrats and the pink Hisstocrat will be called Queen Hisstocrat? Sorbetti (talk) 11:06, January 8, 2026 (EST)

This is a fair theory but we cannot include it on the wiki. Maybe she will appear as a boss in the game with that title, then we can add it. Sylux (talk) 11:10, January 8, 2026 (EST)

Obviously I don't want to include it now, but it did get me thinking. After all, the small snakes are called "Small Histocrat" in Japanese. Sorbetti (talk) 11:13, January 8, 2026 (EST)

King Hisstocrat

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I partially agree with BubbleRevolution here. Saying they're referred to as King Histocrats when only one has been seems very presumptuous to me. Besides, this situation is hardly comparable to the black versions of the Galaxy bosses. However, I also think that the name of King Histocrat shouldn't be separated from the Histocrat name section. Sorbetti (talk) 02:18, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

I'd be fine with moving it under the primary name, though personally if something's referred to with different names between appearances in English AND Japanese, I tend to err on the side of "leave it in its own section", otherwise it's bound to cause confusion. Either way, at this point there's no reason to treat it as definitively referring to the Hisstocrat "species" as a whole, especially when this is all solely based off trailer footage and we have no idea how else the name is handled in-game. I'm so opposed to this given the fact the edits seem to set up the page to be moved to "King Hisstocrat" when Fever releases, which I would be extremely against unless there's some other text in the game that would justify it. I've made some edits to make it read more neutrally and avoid presumptive language either way, which I hope will resolve the issue for the time being, at least. BubbleRevolution (talk) 23:20, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

Hi, BubbleRevolution (talk). I think there is some misunderstanding here, because we lack the grounds to say "King Hisstocrat" is referring to the purple one because there is no historical basis in how the boss has been localized. Rather, the assumption that "King Hisstocrat" must refer to the purple one specifically comes from an (understandable) misinterpretation of the games and their contents. The sources that mention the purple and pink Hisstocrats at this point include the Japanese guidebooks published for Super Mario 3D World, the Shogakukan Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia published in 2015, and the Mario Portal page for Super Mario 3D World published in 2020.

In all of these sources, the name for the masculine, purple iteration of the boss is「ヘビースネーク」(Hebīsunēku, "Hisstocrat"). The feminine, pink iteration is「ヘビースネーク（ピンク）」(Hebīsunēku (Pinku), "Hisstocrat (Pink)"). One can see this themselves through the link to Mario Portal, but I can provide screenshots of the books too if one wishes. But anyway, it should be noted that the name for the former iteration of the boss is not "Hisstocrat (Purple)" - it is simply "Hisstocrat". This contrasts with how these same sources handled colored variants of enemies. For example, for Super Mario Bros., there is no entry titled "Koopa Troopa" in the encyclopedia, Mario Portal, or their accompanying guidebooks. Instead, they list「ノコノコ （ミドリ）」(Nokonoko (Midori), "Koopa Troopa (Green)") and「ノコノコ （アカ）」(Nokonoko (Aka), "Koopa Troopa (Red)"), or similar text that relay the same dichotomy between "green" and "red" variants of Koopa Troopa. This is not how Hisstocrat is handled, and is also in line with how colored variants of bosses in the 3D games are handled elsewhere on Mario Portal and the encyclopedia, specifically with Dino Piranha, King Kaliente, and Gobblegut. Using the formermost one as an example, there is no "Dino Piranha (Pink)" that contrasts with "Dino Piranha (Black)". Rather "Dino Piranha" in isolation just is the pink one, and the black-colored iteration is the only one with any caveat.

The two iterations of Hisstocrat have only been denoted as "king" and "queen" variants in fan communities, not in independent primary sources. In official material, the feminine-looking iteration is "Hisstocrat (pink)". It is denoting the differences in color and nothing else. So it does not seem like there is an objective basis to assume「キングヘビースネーク」(Kingu Hebī Sunēku) is referring to the masculine-looking one when there is no historical basis that asserts otherwise. Things could be different upon the release of Mario Tennis Fever, but unless that game or an official guidebook for it specifically asserts "King Hisstocrat is a 'type' of Hisstocrat" or something along those lines (preferably less blunt), we do not currently have grounds to organize this moniker separately from the other names for Hisstocrat in the NIOL. It could be as modest of a revision based around the fact that most crowned Super Mario bosses have「キング」(Kingu) in their names to begin with, like King Bob-omb, Chief Chilly, the aforementioned King Kaliente, and many others I fail to mention here. - Nintendo101 (talk) 01:15, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

While I feel that most of the points here are valid, it seems to me that some things are omitted. First, I wouldn't compare the Histocrats to the black bosses from SMG, with the exception of Black Dino Piranha, because they fight individually, both the normal and black versions. Both Histocrats fight at the same time and in the same arena. The other point, which I think is much more important, is that, unlike any other case, both Histocrats are differentiated by gender, not just by color. Therefore, it's perfectly valid to think that King Histocrat refers to the male version. Furthermore, "The two iterations of Hisstocrat have only been denoted as "king" and "queen" variants in fan communities" but in the French version of the encyclopedia, there is Roi Mambaristo and Reine Mambaristo. Also, I recently came across this: "We went for a straightforward big band number, which has its own unique appeal. There's a slightly exotic undertone in there too. We used a horn section which got louder, with overlapping parts as Hisstocrat's underlings arrived on the scene. It's as if the band is spurred on by their appearance." So it seems I was right, and the minions that appear with Hisstocrat are minions and not part of Hisstocrat. This could explain why the name change from Hisstocrat to King Hisstocrat is perhaps to reserve the latter for Hisstocrat's underlings. Sorbetti (talk) 01:48, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

Why does it matter if the bosses are fought together? I do not assert they are the same individuals, and it is not relevant to the semantics of how information is to be organized accurately.

Further, I said "independent primary sources". You know as well as I do that those localized versions of the encyclopedia were adapted from fan material because Nintendo provided them with no resources. Our own French, German, Italian, and Spanish-speaking partners confirm this, so I would not consider material made one or two steps away from the people who created these bosses to be indicative of thoughtful and intentional categorical decisions. - Nintendo101 (talk) 02:02, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

In a way, it does. If the two individuals aren't the same, then this means they receive their own names. In 3D world, both were called Hisstocrats, but external sources differentiated them by color. In Tennis Fever, the male one is called King Hisstocrat. So, the assumption is that if they are no longer differentiated by color, then if the pink Hisstocrat appears, it wouldn't be called King Hisstocrat (pink), but Queen Hisstocrat. At least, that's my point of view. Now I see you had put "independent primary sources." Sorry about that. However, most of the languages in the encyclopedia chose to differentiate them by color. Why would French choose something so different? Sorbetti (talk) 02:24, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

I more or less agree with what Sorbetti's saying, but I do understand the not wanting to assume "King Hisstocrat" solely belongs to the purple male variant. That said, I also don't think we have enough information to list "King Hisstocrat" as the collective name of both bosses, especially given the game is not out yet. Given that, the assumption it's a blanket renaming of the species shouldn't be reflected in the article until we have more concrete proof than a simple name displayed in a trailer.

As I said, I imagine these changes are leading up to a move of the page which I would strongly oppose, and I imagine I would not be alone in that as frankly it'd present an extremely confusing article. "King" is an explicitly gendered title, and as there are two very obviously gendered variants of the enemy, and as the page focuses on Hisstocrats as a species/group, I don't think with what little information we have there's enough information to conclude this is meant to be a blanket rename of the boss as a whole, it makes far more sense to me the "King" name is meant to refer to the male one. That said, if Fever doesn't feature enough information to conclude it, I'd be more in favor of writing it in a non-specific manner rather than reflexively just renaming the article as there's a clear question as to whether or not this is meant to be an explicitly new name for "Hisstocrat" as a whole. I also kind of think the framing of "this is how it's handled" in bringing up the Galaxy bosses is a bit of a confusing point as frankly, we don't know how it's handled internally, and for all we know that could have changed, given how rare it is for Mario bosses to get wholesale different names like this. I imagine "pink" was specified as the purple Hisstocrat is the main one encountered in 3D World, with the variant fought later, but as they're two noticeably separate designs, it's possible a "King" identifier was added to differentiate them given they bothered to bring the character back in a new title.

In regards to the Japanese name, I also feel it is way too premature to list "King Heavy Snake" as the contemporaneous name, as again, we don't know if that's the intended use here, as previously stated. Given the article is simply named "Hisstocrat" at this time it comes off as somewhat confusing, and even if the page gets moved (which again, I'd oppose), there's a wiki policy of not moving articles with new names until the actual release of the game, and at minimum, I think the same should apply here for which foreign name gets listed as the primary one. BubbleRevolution (talk) 03:22, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

I appreciate the thoroughness of your reply. To be clear, I am agnostic as to what the name of this article is. I am invested in accurate organization of the NIOL names because this was part of a community-led effort to cite all non-English names for characters, enemies, and bosses in the mainline Super Mario series, which I have been fostering since early 2025.

I bring up the bosses from Galaxy becomes they are named in one of the same sources that names the Hisstocrat variants, and the fact that they share this naming structure is most likely not a coincidence (which is substantiated by the fact that these were carried over onto Mario Portal in 2020). I make no assumptions about what Nintendo has done internally for these subjects, but I do not think that is relevant because I concern myself with the work that has been made accessible to the public through games, books, websites, and trailers and how that is relayed. These are works produced with Nintendo's direct and heavy involvement, especially the texts produced by Shogakukan (like the encyclopedia). It would be unusual if they were naming these subjects themselves, rather than applying the names Nintendo provided them.

This is somewhat tangential, but the distinction between "individual character" and "multimember species" is very fluid with unclear and changing boundaries in Nintendo games, even for the likes of traditionally unambiguous individuals like Mario and King Bob-omb, so I would not concern oneself with that type of distinction. "King", while certainly usually used with masculine connotations, does have exceptions, with there even being some famous, notable ones like Nefertiti and Jadwiga of Poland, as well being part of the common names for animals such as the kingsnakes. So while unusual, I'm not sure it would be that big a deal for the pink Hisstocrat to be covered within an article titled "King Hisstocrat", but that is a topic for another day. — Nintendo101 (talk) 04:37, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

For what it's worth, it would be perfectly in-character for Nintendo to go the "Lawful Evil" route and rename the pink one "Pink King Hisstocrat" if that one shows up again. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:23, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

Split Hisstocrat and rename this page to King Hisstocrat

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: February 14, 2026, 14:07 (UTC)

Based on the vote so far, this proposal may be eligible to close one week early. Please use {{proposal check|early=yes}} on February 18, 2026 at 23:59 (UTC) and close the proposal if applicable.

Okay, I apologize for having four consecutive discussions on this page. But now for the important stuff, as I mentioned on the third talk page above. I had the impression that if Hisstocrat name was changed to King Hisstocrat, it was probably to refer to the minions as Hisstocrats. Well, that impression was correct. They are now, in fact, called Hisstocrats in-game, as shown in the following image.

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Not only that, but they now appear without King Hisstocrat around them, which was one of the arguments against the split in the previous proposal. Now, following what is official, I propose renaming this page to King Hisstocrat and separating the Hisstocrats into their own dedicated page. Also, I think that since the male Hisstocrat is now called King Hisstocrat, maybe it's time to revisit Hisstocrat (Pink), but that's for another day.

Proposer: Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: February 25, 2026, 23:59 (UTC)

Split and rename (Support)

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per official.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) If Nintendo themselves is deliniating between the main "King" Hisstocrat, and the minion, standard Hisstocrats, in the year 2026, we see no reason to keep these merged anymore.
3. Ken17 (talk) Per praposal! Guess the normal Hisstocrats are gonna be their own page, arent they?
4. The Dab Master (talk) Per all.
5. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
6. King Altendo (talk) I can confirm that the name "King Hisstocrat" is official. Per all.
7. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per N101 in the comments. Also, I don't get the opposition, it would be completely in-character for Nintendo to rename the recolor "Pink King Hisstocrat" in the same manner as "Black King Kaliente."
8. Arend (talk) Per all. Tbh, I'm not sure if the "renaming" part needs a proposal given MarioWiki:Article naming. As for the "splitting" part, not only do we now have a proper English name for these creatures (i.e. one that isn't "[boss name]'s underlings" or similar), but this is also the first time we see them separate from the boss character, which I believe allows for a separate article.
9. EvieMaybe (talk) per Arend
10. LadySophie17 (talk) Per proposal and especially per Sorbetti's clarification in the comments about the pink boss remaining merged with King Hisstocrat
11. Nintendo101 (talk) per Sorbetti's clarification.
12. A Domino is worth a thousand words (talk) Per above.
13. Mariuigi Khed (talk) Yesss. (per all)
14. Cloudwalker (talk) Per all.
15. Tails777 (talk) When Nintendo finally clarifies a difference, we thrive on the info. Per all!
16. Ninfan64 (talk) From an artistic standpoint, I dislike the name change, but ultimately that is not under the wiki's decision. Per all.
17. Yoshi Hisstocrat (talk) Can't say much that hasn't already been said. Per all.
18. Jdtendo (talk) Per proposal.

#Wandering Poplin (talk) This is a split that is long overdue. Per all.

Do nothing (Oppose)

1. BubbleRevolution (talk) I'm opposing purely on the basis of splitting the page SOLELY to have the title be dedicated to the minion Hisstocrats. Like I said above, I think burying the pink female Hisstocrat under the page "King Hisstocrat" makes little sense, especially since the most prominent appearance of the character simply uses the name "Hisstocrat" at this time. If it was a more general page about the species (i.e. both the minions AND the bosses) I'd be more amenable to it but as-is I see issues with it.
2. Wandering Poplin (talk) Per BubbleRevolution. While I do think the minions should have their own article, I also feel that covering the "pink Hisstocrat" on a page with a name that is clearly meant to solely relate the purple version is simply unacceptable. And I think this is very much a unique case compared to Dino Piranha and most other "stonger variant of a pre-existing boss" characters.

Proposal Comments

Could you be more specific in what will happen with the pink boss Hisstocrat and the pink minion Hisstocrats? — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 11:55, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

I think the boss Histtocrats should share a page (under the name King Hisstocrat) regardless of whether they are purple or pink. The smaller snakes should be moved to Hisstocrat regardless of whether they are purple or pink. - Nintendo101 (talk) 14:02, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

I strongly dislike the idea of burying the information for the pink Hisstocrat under King Hisstocrat. Especially since, unlike like other rematch bosses in Super Mario 3D World, or the other 3D titles in the series, the pink variant is explicitly shown to be a separate character. Wandering Poplin (talk) 15:17, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

I recommend reviewing the comments made above in the discussion between BubbleRevolution and me. The primary literature indicates the boss Histocrats are the same ontological subjects in a similar manner to Dino Piranha and Black Dino Piranha or Birdo to Birdo (Red), both of which share the same respective page. Due to the conceptual/creative fluidity of what constitutes as an "individual" in the Mario games, we are more in-line with the source material we earnestly try to cover if we keep them together as one. — Nintendo101 (talk)

I don't think Dino Piranha is quite comparable to this case, since that feels more similar to the alternate versions of Motley Bossblob, Prince Bully, or Boss Brolder than the Hisstocrats. Either way, my main issue with the concept is that "Hisstocrat" is neutral enough of a title that it could easily apply to any of these subjects. But as for "King Hisstocrat" on the other hand... Wandering Poplin (talk) 16:36, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

Black Dino Piranha is more mechanically and behaviorally distinct from the normal one than any of these bosses — pink Hisstocrat included — are from their counterparts. I understand some folks do not like the idea of a feminine-looking character being under an article titled "king", but we do not have choice in exercising that type of discretion. We are meant to reflect games and media, even if they make choices we would not have. — Nintendo101 (talk) 17:17, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

@Wandering Poplin I recommend you review the proposal according to Sorbetti's comments below. He has now clarified the option you are supporting involves King Hisstocrat covering both purple and pink bosses. — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 17:49, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

I don't think it's that relevant to the proposal itself. This proposal has nothing to do with splitting the Hisstocrat bosses but rather with splitting the minions and using the most recent name. I know there might be problems with the name King Hisstocrat because the other Hisstocrat boss is female, but it's the most recent name. Also, as I mentioned in the proposal, I think that Hisstocrat (pink) might warrant a future split. But for now, this proposal only seeks to use the most recent name to create an article for the snake minions that are now called Hisstocrat. Sorbetti (talk) 17:56, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

I don't see why it needed clarified, TBH, the proposal said "that's for another day" on that subject from the get-go. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:28, February 12, 2026 (UTC)

Someone might read it and think "oh ok, so we will leave the pink boss Hisstocrat which is called Hisstocrat in the Hisstocrat page, and we can then solve that another day", while someone else might think "oh ok, so we will leave the pink boss Hisstocrat in the new King Hisstocrat page and we can then solve that another day". It hurts nothing to specify what would happen to these subjects because they will be affected if this proposal passes one way or the other. — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 14:41, February 12, 2026 (UTC)

@Sorbetti Would you mind renaming your options so the "→Support" and "→Oppose" in edit summaries don't link to any of the previous proposals? The Dab Master 12:58, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

Done. Sorbetti (talk) 16:19, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

@Sorbetti before I vote, I would just like clarification on how the information pertaining to the pink boss and the pink small snakes are to parsed as a result of this proposal. If this proposal passes, my impression is that the information unique to the giant boss snakes — regardless of whether they are purple or pink — will be moved to a new article titled "King Hisstocrat", whereas the portions dedicated to the small snakes — both blue and pink ones — will be in an article titled "Hisstocrat". Is that correct? If not, what will happen? It does not preclude folks raising another discussion or proposal in the future, but it is difficult to support something like this without understanding where all information will go once it passes. — Nintendo101 (talk) 17:17, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

Yep, that's correct. Both boss Histocrats will be on the King Histocrat page, and both cyan and pink snakes will be on the Hisstocrat page. If the female King Histocrat is later split, it's not relevant to the purpose of this proposal. Sorbetti (talk) 17:45, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

Isn't King Hisstrocrat the only purple one? His underlings are teal instead. rend (talk) (edits) 18:45, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

Yes, my bad. Sorbetti (talk) 18:51, February 11, 2026 (UTC)

@BubbleRevolution@Wandering Poplin I think you're kind of misunderstanding the point. While yes, the proposal does state that the queen Hisstocrat stays on the King Hisstocrat article, that's more of a "boss variant sharing an article with the boss itself" kinda deal, and, frankly, like Sorbetti told Lady Sophie, is otherwise completely irrelevant to the proposal itself. Sorbetti themselves even stated that the queen Hisstocrat warrants a split in the future, but the proposal is actually about splitting the Hisstocrat minions from this page. Why the rename to "King Hisstocrat", you ask? Well, that's because it's the boss's most recent name, and our policy already states that we should use the more recent name anyway. And since the proposal isn't about splitting the queen Hisstocrat, it makes more sense to have it stay on the King Hisstocrat page rather than have it be moved to the Hisstocrat minions page for now, since it's a boss that's basically a palette swap of the other boss.
We can always try to propose splitting the queen Hisstocrat at a later point, but that you'd rather split nothing purely because this proposal happening right now doesn't have a "split all" option just makes it rather inconvenient for all of us. rend (talk) (edits) 01:01, February 13, 2026 (UTC)