MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/80

All past proposals are archived here. Please add archived proposals to the bottom of the page.

Create a reminder for trimming audio

Do not create template 5-8
So, if you don't know, we have a policy which prevents audio files from being more than 30 seconds long, and must have fadeout. Right now, there is no reminder template. However, for many other upload issues, we have a reminder template. This reminder could also be given through {{Reminder}}, but all other case-specific reminders can also be given through {{Reminder}}. This could be good because these reminders usually tell the reciever how to follow these policies. The following will be what the reminder will look like:

Dear Proposals/Archive. Thank you for your recent uploads. When uploading audio files, please trim the audio to 30 seconds long and apply a fadeout. If you don't own software capable of preforming these actions, go here to install a tool capable of doing this. If these actions continue, you will recieve a warning.

Proposer: Conkdor (talk) (blocked)
Deadline: November 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT Extended to November 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support!

1. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per proposal.
2. Martendo (talk) Per proposal.
3. Rykitu (talk) Per proposal.
4. Sorbetti (talk) Just because it doesn't happen very often doesn't mean it can't happen. This saves time from having to create a specific reminder, and I'm fine with that. This brings a benefit, a very small one, but it does. Why would it be beneficial for the wiki to oppose this benefit?
5. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal. I used to upload audio file for the Score theme from Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3, but the file ended up being deleted due to a copyright violation.

Conkdor (talk) Per proposal. (Proposer's note: I give full rights to the user implementing the proposal to modify this template in any way.)

Oppose!

1. Altendo (talk) Admittedly, this does come down to personal preference, but I don't feel like a notice template is necessary for every infraction. I feel like {{reminder}} (or other warning templates, seeing how this infraction counts as most unlisted ones that constitute a {{warning}}) with a brief description is good enough for these types of notices. The other issue is that the template shown here isn't as sophisticated as the other upload templates (admittedly, it doesn't have to be), which further adds to my point about how just a warning (of some sort) template and a short message afterwards should be enough. This last point is admittedly a nitpick, but I also don't think that a fadeout is required; it's just recommended, and only the 30-second maximum length is required.
2. PanchamBro (talk) Honestly the fact that a scenario like this doesn't occur frequently, not to mention that this isn't much a serious infraction than say "creating three sockpuppet accounts" makes me question if this is necessary at all. Illustrating my point further, I've checked the logs for the past month or so, and none of the uploads indicate that they needed to be replaced due to being over 30 seconds. There is some awareness of this rule, even if you think there isn't one. Not to mention I'm put off by the wording of this template, indicating that you "will receive a warning" when on some user notice templates say that "a warning will be issued", a tonal difference that just screams aggressive compared to being fairly neutral. I know you said people could change this template to fix the wording, I understand this. But at the end of the day, this feels like newbie biting. From my experience...or anyone who had to deal with Template:Userspace before its repurposing, a informal reminder about audio trimming is better than a template itself.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) Especially now that the to-do bar exists to basically fire a signal flare anytime someone fails to properly trim audio so somebody can quickly open Audacity and fix it, we're not quite sure if this is a common enough occurrence to warrant a whole template just dedicated to telling people not to do it. As the ones that watch said to-do bar, you usually only get an incident like this once every other month, and it's only like, 1-3 files anyways...
4. Killer Moth (talk) Per all.
5. Mario jc (talk) From what I've seen, this hasn't happened too often; in fact, almost every new upload I've seen has been 30 seconds or less (at one point I even wondered if there was a system in place that prevented media files from uploading if it went over). I've also viewed these notices as quick ways to point the user to certain rules/guidelines without having to manually type a message out; I don't see them as something formal in place of a {{reminder}} and that they should go straight to a {{warning}} if it happens again. Excessive account creation, on the other hand, does happen often and there's more information that needs to be communicated to the user about it, hence the template.
6. Mari0fan100 (talk) A lot of new users may not know that audio files can only be 30 seconds long. Plus, a user uploading an audio file for 31 seconds isn't a huge issue. Also, this is not an issue I see occurring a lot. We've definitely made new reminder templates for things that occur often (such as edit flooding and using italics), but uploading an audio file that's too long isn't notable enough for a template dedicated to it yet.
7. Ihavenoideaboyo (talk) I don't really see the urgency; this seems like a well established rule that newbies would easily grasp after seeing most songs be 30 seconds long. If there's a slip up, a simple audio trim and casual user page notice should do things just fine.
8. Drago (talk) Per Mario jc.

The comments!

At least for the files themselves, isn't this what {{Template:Media-length}} is for? ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 16:11, October 18, 2025 (EDT)

@Camwoodstock no, this is the reminder for uploading untrimmed audio files. Conkdor! (T|C) 16:41, October 18, 2025 (EDT)

I think the idea is for this to be a user notice, to be put on the talk pages of users who upload untrimmed audio, instead of using a generic reminder template. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 17:06, October 18, 2025 (EDT)

Has this been a recent recurring problem we need to address, or will this be an anticipated problem in the future? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:56, October 18, 2025 (EDT)

@Mario A problem that actually just happened today. It doesn't happen very often, but neither does people making 3 sockpuppets. Conkdor! (T|C) 18:49, October 18, 2025 (EDT)

@PanchamBro What do you mean "it's not as serious"? If we don't quickly trim untrimmed audio, we could get sued! Conkdor! (T|C) 07:22, October 20, 2025 (EDT)

A simple audio gaffe (one that is over 30 seconds) might be a copyright issue, but can be easily addressed by anyone. A sockpuppet on the other hand can be a major hurdle. From new accounts made numerous times for some reason, to some socks not even making themselves known until they reveal themselves or someone eventually finds out who they are. Of course, an easy way to tell is to see if their editing patterns match, but I find the issue of sockpuppets way more serious in terms of conduct compared to someone not trimming the audio and posting the full music. This, by the way, is in your response to your comment about how infrequent "making 3 sockpuppets" are in comparison to "not trimming audio correctly", but the former is much, much understandable to warrant a user notice. -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 10:57, October 20, 2025 (EDT)

Distinguish more clearly between full British English localizations and simple English text differences in European versions

Adopt Option 5 1-1-4-0-8
A while back, I challenged this wiki's inconsistent use of "English", "English (United States)" and "English (United Kingdom)" as language identifiers in game infoboxes, and it was ultimately decided that when the English scripts were largely identical between regions, they should simply be listed as "English", regardless if they were still stored separately in internal data and which language files were loaded were technically still dependent on system region settings (or the regional copy of the game itself in many cases, particularly back when region-free releases were not yet the norm).

However, despite my previous efforts, it largely remains the case in practice that when the English-language versions differ at all between regions, they are considered separate "American English" and "British English" versions, even when the actual differences have little to nothing to do with the actual linguistic differences between American English and British English. Koopa Kid having a different name in European versions, including in English, from Mario Party 4 up to his final physical appearance in Mario Party 7 is seemingly enough to qualify all of those games as having "English (United Kingdom)" or "British English" versions, for instance. Mario Pinball Land, Yoshi Topsy-Turvy, Mario Tennis: Power Tour and Super Mario Strikers having different titles in Europe are also seemingly what qualifies them as having "English (United Kingdom)" as an available language, despite having little no significant regional differences between English versions beyond the title and, for the former two, the respective European or "British English" titles simply matching the Japanese one instead of the North American one.

The aforementioned examples I gave also notably predate when Nintendo of Europe actually started regularly doing "UK English adaptations" of Nintendo of America's US English localizations, or partially to wholly separate translations from Japanese into British English in the case of some games. That practice is believed to have been largely kicked off by a certain language-related snafu regarding Mario Party 8's release in the UK that ended up prompting an immediate recall. And while it ended up lasting well into the Nintendo 3DS and Wii U eras, this practice had largely stopped as a regular occurrence by the release of the Nintendo Switch. However, that hasn't completely stopped there from being some mostly arbitrary naming differences between English versions in North America and Europe (with Oceania also inheriting Europe's differences since their system regions are typically grouped together), such as Nintendo of Europe insisting on calling Toady "Magikoopa" in English in recent Mario Party games for some reason (to match the other European-language localizations, I suppose?). You also have NoE continuing to add the word "Football" into their title of the most recent Mario Strikers game, and seemingly changing a few instances of "soccer" to "football" in the English script to match, but that's not quite the same as the full UK English translation that Mario Strikers Charged Football got, is it?

So my baseline proposal is this: when those minor differences are present and need to be acknowledged, but the "British English" script is not actually in full-on British English, don't call it that. Call it something like "(the English script used in) the European version" (or "the PAL version", if you prefer, for older home console games that were released when that television standard was still largely a thing over there). I know this term makes many of us wince, but even "the European English version" or "the European English script" would be technically more accurate in a sense. Game infoboxes would also not automatically list "English (United Kingdom)" for simple naming or text differences between English versions; simply "English" would be the only listed language, as when there are no meaningful differences as all.

As for what still should be classified as "British English" or "English (United Kingdom)" specifically, I have three potential criteria in mind:

1. Only use "British English" when actual British English is used: The key determiner here would be a fairly consistent presence of British English spellings in particular in the European version when the language is set to English, even if the localization is otherwise rather similar to the American English one. Examples of this include WarioWare: D.I.Y. and the original Wii version of Super Mario Galaxy 2. More general vocabulary differences, such as the use of "football" instead of "soccer", as well as noticeable differences in things like punctuation placement between English versions that reflect differing American and British English norms may be used as supporting evidence, but should not be the sole determiner as there are cases where minor changes are like this are made to English scripts between regional versions, but American English is still predominately used regardless, like in Paper Mario, Super Paper Mario, the aforementioned Mario Strikers series apart from Charged and the Super Smash Bros. series apart from for Nintendo 3DS and for Wii U.
2. Only use "British English" if the above is the case or Nintendo does so themselves and there are English text differences present: Since "English (UK/Australia)" is now a dedicated language setting on the Nintendo Switch 2, this would include all games (including Nintendo Switch 2 Editions) specifically for that system if there are any text differences from changing said language setting, as well as Super Mario 3D All-Stars since it's an in-game setting for all games included, plus any games that Nintendo of America lists as having British English as a supported language on their website, again, when there are actual text differences present between the two regions. This would also include games that specifically mention a "UK English" localization in their credits or have a "UK", "en-GB" or equivalent language code denoted in internal data (something like "EU_English" or "EUen" though, more common in recent Nintendo games, does not itself count as I will go into in a moment), as long as this reflects some text difference(s) between regions beyond date formatting, as per the de facto status quo. I was also considering counting when the in-game language selection menu in European versions uses the Union Jack flag to denote English, but I will currently omit this as criteria given how commonplace this was in the past (and the English language did of course originate what is now part of the United Kingdom at any rate), leading to as many false or misleading positives as there are currently. If you believe this criteria should be counted, please do let me know in the comments.
3. Phase out the use of "British English" in reference to in-game English text differences in Europe entirely: When it comes to actual linguistic differences in spelling and such, it can naturally still be referred to, but "European" and "PAL" will be preferred when referring to broader regional game versions and English script differences between them that don't strictly reflect the linguistic differences between American and British English. If the English-language versions in North America and Europe have any notable differences, "English (Europe)" will be used to differentiate the latter in game infoboxes instead of "English (United Kingdom)". This also reflects how Nintendo themselves list supported languages for their games on their Japanese website, as well as the most common label they use for "European English" localization data internally (typically "EU_English" or "EUen").

Edit: Added two extra variant options based on private feedback from CarlosYoshiBoi. "Common words and/or accents localized" would count things like changing "soccer" to "football" in Mario Strikers: Battle League or Wii Fit Trainer having a distinctly American or British English accent in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate depending on region as those games having both American and British English support. This would also include certain sensitive terms specific to British English being changed in the English script used in the European version of a game, like the aforementioned Mario Party 8 situation.

Proposer: PaperSplash (talk)
Deadline: November 13, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Only use "British English" when actual British English is used

1. PaperSplash (talk) First choice; it's the most straightforward and least misleading approach, even if it doesn't entirely match Nintendo's own.

Option 2: Only use "British English" if the above is the case or Nintendo does so themselves and there are English text differences present

1. PaperSplash (talk) Third choice; the most consistent with Nintendo's (or rather, Nintendo of America's) own public-facing listings on their website and in language settings, but also the most arbitrary and misleading approach aside from our existing one.

Option 3: Phase out the use of "British English" in reference to in-game English text differences in Europe entirely

1. PaperSplash (talk) Second choice; it allows us to largely keeps our existing approach while using more strictly accurate terminology, and "European English" or "English (Europe)" is also more closely in line with Nintendo's own labeling on their Japanese website and in internal data.
2. Altendo (talk) There are cases when there are text differences between NTSC and PAL versions, but most of them don't actually change that much text, not even using British/European spellings (take Mario Finale for example). I think that replacing "British English" with "European version" or "PAL version" makes more sense, as these are regional, not necessarily linguistic, changes (I would support "PAL version" as these "British spellings" are also used in other PAL countries, as I showed here; NTSC is mainly used in East Asia and most of the Americas, while PAL is used in most other places, including Australia and New Zealand, making PAL the preferred prefix for me), and I would also like to mention that Nintendo of Europe is not based in Britain, which means that they might not be the only Nintendo subsidiary localizing games in PAL English, seeing how they localize for many different languages (Nintendo also has offices in Hong Kong and Australia that I can assume also localize into PAL English, alongside Mandarin and maybe Cantonese for the former). As such, I don't think "British English" or even "European English" is accurate given that these changes could be more widespread than Britain and even Europe, and I don't see these as a cultural or linguistic change, as the different texts for most games are likely just the results of Nintendo's different subsidiaries localizing games in different ways rather than sticking with language or culture.
3. Blinker (talk) Per all.
4. Jazama (talk) Per all

Option 5: Option 2 but also counting any common words and/or accents localized to British English

1. CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) I support this, partly due to changes of soccer to football in the Mario Strikers games (especially Battle League) plus the Wii Fit Trainers having British English voices in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
2. LadySophie17 (talk) I think this is the option I want? I believe any attempt by NoE to localize the game to a British English-speaking audience should count as the game having British English. In a best case scenario, this would consist of accurately changing American spelling to British spelling (color to colour) and American words to British words (soccer to football). Even if the localization isn't complete, like Battle League's, it still shows, to me, that they at least tried. On the other hand, games that have entirely different British scripts are not necessarily more British than games that just Ctrl+F the American script for changes.This Battle League situation reminds me of arguments about how other languages will sometimes use English names due to lack of localization, and if we should count them as names in other languages or not.
3. Jdtendo (talk) Per all.
4. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per.
5. YoYo (talk) per all
6. Altendo (talk) Second choice, per all.
7. Nintendo101 (talk) Per LadySophie17.
8. PaperSplash (talk) Fourth choice. It's the most popular option at the moment and I find it to be an acceptable compromise. I also think LadySophie17 made a good argument in its favor.

Decide how punctuation should be placed at the end of a quote

Adopt logical quotation 22-0-0
In English, there are several conventions for placing a period or comma at the end of text in quotation marks, including:

Logical quotation (LQ)

Punctuation that is not present in the original text must not be added within quotation marks. When punctuation is needed, it must be placed after the closing quotation mark.

• He said that he was "thirsty", then asked for "something to drink".
• The choices are "yes", "no", and "maybe".

Typesetters' quotation (TQ)

A period or comma must be placed within quotation marks, regardless of whether it is part of the original text.

• He said that he was "thirsty," then asked for "something to drink."
• The choices are "yes," "no," and "maybe."

Currently, the wiki's Manual of Style does not specify which quotation style should be used; in fact, it uses LQ for the most part (as in "such as "it's", "can't", and "doesn't""), but it also contains one occurrence of TQ (in ""Internal names" or "Names in other languages," respectively"). Such inconsistent quotation style can be found throughout the wiki and can lead to dispute between proponents of both styles. This proposal intends to adopt a quotation style (preferably LQ) that we shall use on the Super Mario Wiki.

Breakdown of both styles

When quoting sentence fragments, words-as-words, or titles

In LQ, the full stop or comma is placed after the closing quotation mark.

• LQ: He warns not to "pinch Wendy's Pennies", because "they pinch back".
• LQ: He said "hakoniwa", which is Japanese for "box garden".
• LQ: They sing "The Pirate Scorn", "Monkey Business", and "I Wanna be a Star".

In TQ, the full stop or comma is placed within the quotation marks.

• TQ: He warns not to "pinch Wendy's Pennies," because "they pinch back."
• TQ: He said "hakoniwa," which is Japanese for "box garden."
• TQ: They sing "The Pirate Scorn," "Monkey Business," and "I Wanna be a Star."

When quoting a full sentence that ends with a period

In both styles, the period must be kept within the quotes if it coincides with the end of the sentence containing it. (We quote the whole sentence, which includes the period, and we don't put another period after a period.)

• Both styles: He said, "When you pinch Wendy's Pennies, they pinch back."

Otherwise, the period must be omitted.

• LQ: "When you pinch Wendy's Pennies, they pinch back", he said.
• TQ: "When you pinch Wendy's Pennies, they pinch back," he said.

When breaking up a full sentence into fragments

Fragments that end with a comma keep it within the quotation marks.

• Both styles: "When you pinch Wendy's Pennies," he said, "they pinch back."

When the quote ends with a "!" or "?", or a mandatory dot (e.g., at the end of an abbreviation)

The punctuation must be kept within the quotation marks. In both styles, the quote cannot be followed by a period.

• Both styles: Mario said, "Okey-dokey!"

In both styles, the mandatory dot can be followed by a comma.

• LQ: The chapters are called "Mario Bros.", "WarioWare Inc.", and "Bowser Jr."
• TQ: The chapters are called "Mario Bros.," "WarioWare Inc.," and "Bowser Jr."

Exclamation and question marks can be followed by a comma in LQ, but not in TQ.

• LQ: Mario's catchphrases are "Here we go!", "Let's-a go!", and "Aren't I done yet?"
• TQ: Mario's catchphrases are "Here we go!" "Let's-a go!" and "Aren't I done yet?"

When placing a "!", "?", ":", or ";" after the quote

The punctuation must be placed after the closing quotation mark if it applies to the whole sentence. This is true in both styles, even though TQ arbitrarily refuses to apply this logic to commas and periods.

• Both styles: I have a "great question": what is a "pizza"? It's not a "pie"; it's "something else"!

When quoting text that itself quote text

For accuracy, we should not modify the quotation style used within the quote.

• Both styles: Electroquake said, "Notice I said "when", not "If" - gotta think positive."
• Both styles: Gaz said, "I'll be "Geno," okay?"

Why we should adopt LQ

While LQ is sometimes perceived as "British style" and TQ is more widespread in American English publications (especially for literature and journalism), LQ has been used for decades in technical and scientific writing even in the US (because LQ is needed for accuracy and precision), and is increasingly used by the general public (unconsciously, just because it's intuitive). Wikipedia uses LQ too and even has a complete essay that explains in detail why TQ is illogical and not suited to encyclopedic writing.

The main flaw of TQ is that it distorts the quote by inserting punctuation that looks like it belongs to the original text. LQ, on the other hand, is much more precise, unambiguous, and accurate to the source material. For example, look at the following two sentences in LQ:

• Camille thinks that Mario's surname is "Bros".
• Camille thinks that Mario's surname is "Bros."

You can see that Camille thinks that the surname is "Bros" without a dot in the first sentence, and "Bros." with a dot in the second sentence. When using TQ, both concepts would be written like the second sentence, which would be ambiguous.

LQ is also more intuitive to write: quoted text is a unit, consisting of words and quotation marks. Writing the quote and then placing punctuation after it is probably what you would instinctively do, unless you've been conditioned to use TQ. Some would say TQ looks more pleasing because LQ creates a gap below the closing quotation mark, but I personally disagree: LQ looks just fine whereas TQ just looks weird to me. TQ is also harder to scan: when I read text that has a period or comma baked into the quote, I spontaneously assume the punctuation is actually part of the quoted text before having to mentally move the punctuation mark outside the quote.

In conclusion, we should adopt a quotation style for consistency, and adopt LQ specifically, because it is intuitive and accurate.

Proposer: Jdtendo (talk)
Deadline: November 24, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on November 17, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Adopt "logical quotation".

1. Jdtendo (talk) "Per proposal", I said.
2. Polley001 (talk) The logical choice has "logical" in the name, fancy that. Per this logical proposal.
3. The Dab Master (talk) "Per proposal".
4. Altendo (talk) "I completely agree with this", I said. "I do agree with disambiguating things".
5. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per proposal.
6. LinkTheLefty (talk) I prefer "LQ".see?
7. Ahemtoday (talk) Per proposal.
8. Hewer (talk) Per all, TQ never made sense to me. It especially grinds my gears when music titles get affected by it (The game has an arrangement of "Ground BGM.").
9. "Ihavenoideaboyo (talk)." Per all. While we're at it, let's standardize the usage of the metric system over the imperial system!
10. Camwoodstock (talk) "Per all, especially Hewer!", the Seven Stars wrote, "The conflict with music titles is a great point, honestly."
11. Maw-Ray Master (talk) I say, "Per all".
12. Nintendo101 (talk) I think this way would be most appropriate for the scope of our coverage.
13. PnnyCrygr (talk) "Per all", said Penny.
14. EvieMaybe (talk) THANK YOU.
15. Lastro (talk) TQ literally doesn't exist in French, and there's a reason behind it. LQ all the way.
16. Dominoes (talk) "Per all." – Dominoes (November 12, 2025). MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive. Super Mario Wiki (English). Page 80. Retrieved November 20, 2025 from www.mariowiki.com.
17. Koopa con Carne (talk) "Per all", I spoke breathlessly as I rushed in late.
18. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.
19. Dive Rocket Launcher (talk) Per proposunctuation.
20. PaperSplash (talk) "Per all", as the saying goes.
21. AgentParadox (talk) And so in came vote 21, lit up by moon and/or sun, stating the 21÷3 characters including space, and spoke them out of the face: "Per all".
22. Rykitu (talk) Per all.

Comments (punctuation after quotes)

@Ihavenoideaboyo You know, I think that's a great idea as well. I'd say that, whenever there is a measurement using a unit in the imperial system, its corresponding measurement in a metric unit system should included after it in parentheses. Maw-Ray Master (talk) 14:21, November 10, 2025 (EST)

I'd support this, honestly. The Dab Master 14:52, November 10, 2025 (EST)

Quasi-related: a loooong time back, I recall the idea was floated of giving British/American localization a first-come, first-serve basis (e.g. giving images, names and quotes priority based on whichever released first) rather than the current all American English that the wiki decided at some point. Wonder if that idea would be more favorable now. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:07, November 10, 2025 (EST)

I'd much rather have a consistent preference for one over the other as we currently do, otherwise it's needlessly confusing. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 17:29, November 10, 2025 (EST)

If a pre-existing text uses TQ rather than LQ, should we mark it with a "{{sic}}" template? Ihavenoideaboyo (talk) 17:56, November 10, 2025 (EST)

It's not necessary. TQ is not unusual in general English writing, and readers might get confused about what the "[sic]" applies to. Jdtendo^(T|C) 00:47, November 11, 2025 (EST)

@LinkTheLefty You left a stray "</small>" in your vote. The Dab Master 18:23, November 10, 2025 (EST)

There's a perfectly illogical explanation for that. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:30, November 10, 2025 (EST)

I don't know how to vote for this. I have always used TQ for dialogue and full sentences, and LQ for everything else. "I don't know what to buy," Peach said. She was looking at something called an "Ultra Shroom". Then again, I tend to use SINGLE quotes for the latter instance anyway, and reserve quotation marks for ACTUAL quotations. Shadow2 (talk) 21:48, November 10, 2025 (EST)

well, no matter which wins, you're going to have to adjust anyways (unless status quo wins, of course) — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 22:00, November 12, 2025 (EST)

I was taught to use this method of quotation for full sentences as well. Though I could also see the logic behind the other way, so I wouldn't mind adopting LQ in this scenario. Dominoes (talk) 22:18, November 12, 2025 (EST)

Stop mentioning direct/enhanced ports and remasters in the "Latest appearance" section

Do not stop 4-2-3-13
Simple as. I just don't think its very useful to have a character's latest appearance be listed as a direct/enhanced port or remaster of a game, because that fact should speak for itself. Some examples include games like Super Mario 3D All-Stars, Super Mario Galaxy 1 + 2, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, Donkey Kong Country Returns HD, etc. To me, it be much more informative to include the latest non-port or remaster apperance in the Latest appearance section instead. Keep in mind however, that this does not include full remakes (e.g. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)) as those kinds of games are not direct ports and thus are technically not considered a "version" of the original game.

The one exception where it would be ok to mention a port/remaster is in the case where said port/remaster contains new content that a character appears in. For example, Bullies appear in the Bowser's Fury campaign, so that would be mentioned as their latest appearance. While Madpoles appear in the full package of Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury, they do not appear in the Bowser's Fury campaign itself, and thus it would not be mentioned as their latest appearance.

Proposer: Vivavivi004 (talk)
Deadline: November 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Remove mentions of direct/enhanced ports & remasters in the Latest apperance section

1. Vivavivi004 (talk) Per proposal.
2. LinkTheLefty (talk) To be honest, this always bothered. We don't include the emulated rereleases on Virtual Console or Switch Online - so why on earth do we count the likes of Wii/3D All-Stars? Because it was arbitrarily pressed physically?
3. Shadow2 (talk) Listing a character's latest appearance as a port feels like listing an actor's latest role as a DVD re-release of a film from 1950. Just doesn't feel right.
4. Ahemtoday (talk) Per proposal.

Option 2: Remove mentions of direct/enhanced ports, remasters, AND remakes

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) Second option. The line between remaster and remake isn't always easy to discern. Let's just go for the whole works.
2. Ahemtoday (talk) I'm not completely set on this, but I tend to think of remakes as more of an extension of the original game than a new thing in their own right. Forgive me for not finding a better example, but if the Axem Rangers showed up in SPM or something, I'd rather be apprised of that than be told they're in SMRPG and SMRPG.

Option 3: Keep mentioning ports/remasters/remakes, but also include another "Latest appearance" section that excludes those kinds of games

1. Ihavenoideaboyo HD (talk) This way, we could make both parties happy.
2. The Dab Master (talk) Second option.
3. Vivavivi004 (talk) Second option. This would be a good option that would still keep the more literal approach done currently (as I think that still holds value) while still being informative about a characters true last NEW appearance.

Option 4: Don't remove mentions of these kinds of games in the Latest appearance section (Do nothing)

1. Hewer (talk) The line between "remake" and "enhanced port" is too unclear for my liking, and it's not unheard of for something to appear in the original version of a game but not a later version, such as 3-Up Moon Block and Propeller Platform.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Hewer. When the state of the definition of what even counts as a Reissue is as much of a powder keg as it is, we don't really feel comfortable with a ruling like this.
3. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
4. New Super Altendo 3D All-Stars 64K-4D Remake Definitive Edition Super Ultra Deluxe Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series (talk) The most I would agree on is removing emulated games from actual releases that have more content besides the emulation (the Masterpieces in Brawl and for 3DS / Wii U and maybe Super Mario 3D All-Stars) as that is just the exact same game but running through an emulator, akin to Virtual Console and Nintendo Classics, in an actual release. But even then, you could make the argument that those emulated games in those full releases count towards their latest appearance, since those games were included in an actual release of a new title in the same vein as official modern releases, which is also true for ports, remasters, and remakes that are released outside of Virtual Console and Nintendo Classics. Let's just keep things simple and absolute for now.
5. Nintendo101 (talk) I don't think we should be making these types of litmus tests.
6. Martendo (talk) Per Altendo.
7. The Dab Master – Nintendo Switch 2 Edition + Expert in Mewing While I can understand that this can feel weird at times, after thinking about this for a bit, I honestly don't think it bothers me THAT much. It's not really a harmful bit of information to have. Per Altendo.
8. YoYo (talk) I can already see all the edit wars happening
9. Jazama (talk) Per all
10. Technetium (talk) Per all.
11. Fun With Despair (talk) Remake, rerelease or not, the game came out recently and as such it is their most recent appearance.
12. Dominoes + Dominoes 2 (2025) Per all.
13. Killer Moth (talk) Per all.

Comments (Remove ports/remasters from "Latest apperance" sections)

What if said appearance is within new content in a reissue, such as Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury? This game clearly marked new appearances for characters like Boom Boom and Bowser in the Bowser's Fury campaign (I know it's not THE latest appearance for them, I'm just using it as an example). The Dab Master 10:56, November 5, 2025 (EST)

I believe in that case, it would be ok to mention the game as long as they appear IN the new content. For example, Bullies appear in the Bowser's Fury campaign, so that would be mentioned as their latest appearance. While Madpoles appear in the full package of Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury, they do not appear in the Bowser's Fury campaign itself, and thus it would not be mentioned as their latest appearance. Vivavivi004 T | C 11:17, November 5, 2025 (EST)

I have an idea; how about we simultaneously list both the first port/remaster/remake and the first non-port/remaster/remake appearance? Ihavenoideaboyo (talk) 11:16, November 5, 2025 (EST)

Not a bad idea, I will add an option for it in the proposal. Vivavivi004 T | C 11:22, November 5, 2025 (EST)

Issue is, there's already a lot of debate and confusion on what counts as a remake vs a port / remaster on this wiki… Technetium (talk) 12:51, November 5, 2025 (EST)

@Hewer I feel like a situation where something appears in one game and not its reissue is few and far between enough that it wouldn't really be an issue. I think Option 3 could be a good solution to this. Also, I do understand that there is a big issue with what games to recognize as reissues in the first place, and I can't really argue with that (atleast for some games). But I still would want to see this proposal implemented anyways, because I have always felt that the inclusion of reissues has made the Latest apperance section not really feel like an accurate representation of the characters true history. Nobody would really say that Plungelos were last seen in 2020, because they weren't. They just happened to be in Super Mario 3D All-Stars, a collection of 3 games that were already released. Vivavivi004 T | C 14:05, November 5, 2025 (EST)

I honestly don't mean this as me deliberately being a contrarian, but I would definitely say Plungelos were last seen in 2020 because of 3D All-Stars (including outside the wiki context). Ihavenoideaboyo (talk) 15:44, November 5, 2025 (EST)

@Vivavivi004 You mispelled "appearance" as "apperance" several times. You also don't have to pipe for most plurals (like [[Madpole|Madpoles]]), as just adding an "s" at the end (like [[Madpole]]s) will yield the same result (Madpoles). Piping is obviously required for pluralizations that aren't just the word but with letters added to the end (Bullies are a great example), but for most, piping isn't required at all. Altendo 19:45, November 5, 2025 (EST)

This has nothing to do with the proposal... but thanks for the advice regardless Vivavivi004 T | C

@Shadow2 @Ahemtoday Even if reissues are counted as "extensions" rather than their own new thing, I still do not see that as a solid argument to dismiss reissues from the "Latest appearance" section. Actual game extensions (like content updates such as Luigi's appearance in Balloon World in Super Mario Odyssey, as well as the commemorative updates in games like Super Mario Run and Tetris 99) are noted in the "Latest appearance" section, even though they are even less split than reissues, and they take priority over full games released between the original game's launch and the update that adds the character. Admittedly, they do add new content to the table (while reissues often show content in previous releases, and "Latest appearance" sections don't account for updates unless the character was added in said update), but quoting Hewer, "It's not unheard of for something to appear in the original version of a game but not a later version." I know the proposal said that if it didn't appear in the original, they can appear in the "Latest appearance" section, but I feel like since these are actual releases post-original launch and not part of Nintendo's emulator services, it should be fine to retain how reissues are treated in the "Latest appearance" section. And to quote Camwoodstock, "The state of the definition of what even counts as a Reissue is as much of a powder keg as it is." Let's not risk blowing that up. Altendo 12:16, November 7, 2025 (EST)