Category talk:Games

(First topic)

Can somebody explain this? It's REALLY confusing. Shouldn't the sub categories be things like Mario Series, Yoshi series, etc, so that we don't repeat the same thing in different categories? I mean, should categories NEVER repeat themselves, just to give them WAY more structure? - 07:59, 10 May 2014 (EDT)

What qualifies as a game?

Determine what qualifies as a game (and create appropriate categories in the process)

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Wednesday, January 14, 2026, 07:50 GMT

So, as you may know already, this category lists (almost) every Mario franchise game in it... Well, more accurately, (almost) every piece of Mario-related software. How come? Well, you see, there are "games" listed in the category that are arguably not interactive enough to be a game. Obviously, things like Super Mario Bros. are games, since they exceed the minimum of interactivity most people would consider a game. However, there are other cases which I'll mention below. This proposal of course doesn't apply just to these pieces of software, but rather it's here to determine if such software and similar would be considered a "game" or simply software (aka application or just app depending on the context and/or platform). If this isn't the most appropriate category for this, please let me know, this is my first proposal.

• Mario Paint: Ah, the classic. In Mario Paint most of the things the player would do is, well, paint or maybe compose some music, right? That is correct, however, what may separate it from just being software is Gnat Attack. In there, the objective is to swat different kinds of flies and then defeat the boss, which is also a fly. This is why I think Mario Paint is the exception, not the rule. Even the wiki calls this a game.
• Super Mario Bros. & Friends: When I Grow Up: You may think this is a similar case to the above, however you can only color and print pre-made images here (similar to Color a Dinosaur). A similar example to this is Super Mario Bros. Print World, however that only lets you print in pre-made and pre-colored images. The wiki calls the former a game, yet it explicitly states the latter is not a game and instead a printing program.
• Family BASIC: This is a tough one for me... Sure, V3 does feature some built-in games (and before that one could learn how to program several more of them through the manual), but the thing is, this is mostly just meant to be a programming language so you can do your own games, hence the name. One may compare this to, say, Super Mario Maker, however I'd argue the latter is actually a game since the "programming" part is basically just creating Mario-styled levels, which has already been deemed a game as mentioned above. The wiki calls the former programming software.
• Game Boy Color Promotional Demo and Super Mario Sunshine: La Guía oficial: Well, these ones are a bit of an offshoot but should be considered here anyways. The first one has no interactivity at all and the second one is a bunch of videos in Spanish meant to guide you through Super Mario Sunshine put in a(n also) Spanish GUI The wiki calls these a looping tech demo and a video guide respectively.
• Bomb Desktop Buddy: Just like the above, this is an interesting case. It's basically a minimal virtual pet like the ones you may have seen on Steam or the Google Play Store. I guess there is some level of interactivity here, but it's kinda iffy. The wiki calls this a promotional widget.

Remember that these aren't the only examples of arguably non-game Mario software, but rather the examples I had in my mind. I limited it to just five options so as to not overwhelm this proposal. What do I mean by "appropriate categories", you may ask? Well, those would be things like a general category called Category:Software (or Category:Applications) and similar categories per platform, just like what's done with games. This proposal would not affect the Computer games and applications template as it already covers, well, both games and applications. Some other navbox templates may need to be renamed, however, such as the Super Mario games template, which also covers games and other software. The application images category would benefit from this proposal, as it currently only covers mobile software, though its description states that other types of software applications can be added too. And finally, the Tech demo and Internal test pages would also get the main category after this proposal finishes due to their nature (ps: a guideline page covering a topic like this would also help avoid any confusion). If there are any other pages this proposal might affect that I've missed, please let me know!

Proposer: SuperGamer18 (talk)

Subject 1: Should Mario Paint be considered a game?

Deadline: January 26, 2026, 23:59 GMT

Yeah!

1. SuperGamer18 (talk) Per proposal.
2. Wandering Poplin (talk) I mean, Nintendo certainly seems to think so. So I'd say it counts. Even if it is a bit unconventional.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) In general, Nintendo doesn't really delineate much between "software" and "game", outside of like... maybe the apps from the DSiWare service, and even then, plenty of those have game elements (hi, Mario Clock.) A large amount of "what's software, versus a game" is mostly semantics, but Nintendo's put their foot down on this one being a game specifically. We don't see any reason to doubt them on that.
4. Nelsonic (talk) Per.
5. Yoshi18 (talk) While this is not a traditional game, at least you have the ability to interact with the game by painting (and essentially your own illustrations). Also Nintendo officially sees this as a game so, as Camwoodstock said, I don't see any reason to doubt them.
6. Rykitu Paint (talk) Per all.
7. Mushroom Head (talk) Per all.

Nah...

Subject 2: Should things like Super Mario Bros. & Friends: When I Grow Up and Super Mario Bros. Print World be considered a game?

Deadline: January 26, 2026, 23:59 GMT

Yeah!

1. Wandering Poplin (talk) Unless we aren't going to consider Browser games as "Games" either, I see no reason to remove this for the moment.
2. Nelsonic (talk) Per.
3. Rykitu's Print World (talk) Per Wandering Poplin.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) The former is a coloring book, and the latter is a similar graphic design program; both have a lot in common with Mario Paint, a trivial "is a game" positive.

Nah...

1. SuperGamer18 (talk) Per proposal.
2. Yoshi18 (talk) Unlike Family BASIC, you can't really play anything in Super Mario Bros. & Friends: When I Grow Up. As the article says; you're basically just watching a digital coloring book. And while yes, you can change the color of the illustrations, you can't change the illustrations. And only being able to change the colors doesn't give the player enough interactions to make it a game. In the case of Super Mario Bros. Print World; I mean, come on, it's literally a printing software used to print out artwork from Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario Land. How's that a game?

Subject 3: Should Family BASIC be considered a game?

Deadline: January 26, 2026, 23:59 GMT

Yeah!

1. Wandering Poplin (talk) Tentatively. Although my understanding of this game/software is a rather loose, so my opinion could change later on.
2. Nelsonic (talk) Per.
3. Yoshi18 (talk) In my opinion, there's enough interactions to this to make it a game. Despite the game not being a more traditional game like Mario Bros. or Super Mario Bros., it is still a game. I see this game as a collection (similar to Super Mario 3D All-Stars) rather than just not a game at all.
4. Rykitu BASIC V3 (talk) Per all.
5. Camwoodstock (talk) It does technically have a few games with it as part of the example software, and we don't feel like starting the delineation over this title when... Well, see our vote in the next poll.

Nah...

1. SuperGamer18 (talk) Per proposal.

Subject 4: Should things like the Game Boy Color Promotional Demo and Super Mario Sunshine: La Guía oficial be considered a game?

Deadline: January 26, 2026, 23:59 GMT

Yeah!

1. Nelsonic (talk) Per Camwoodstock's comment.
2. RYKITU Buddy (talk) Per.
3. Yoshi18 (talk) In the first two you literally do nothing. Bomb Desktop Buddy is the only one of these three with some interaction but the interaction. But just as Camwoodstock said; unless Bomb Desktop Buddy gets either dropped from this poll option or gets its own poll option, I'm support this one.

#Camwoodstock (talk) Now. We do honestly think, now that it's been proposed, that there is... Some merit in de-lineating "software" and "game", but, only in instances where there's a pretty clear trivial positive in terms of the distinction; ergo, Tech demos, internal tests, and diagnostic software. We could also see a use for promotional software like this, though we are far less familiar with those. The odd one out here, and the reason for the "they're games!" vote, is the presence of Bomb Desktop Buddy (or whatever it's going to be named after that proposal), in which, as mentioned, we could go either way on if that is "game" enough. In short, while this poll option does have its heart in the right place, we do think what it's actually including is... Dubious. If Bomb Desktop Buddy was dropped from this poll option, genuinely, we might re-consider our vote.

Nah...

1. SuperGamer18 (talk) Per proposal.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) Now this is a different story. Tech demos, internal tests, and diagnostic software are pretty much the only unambiguous cases of something expressly de-lineating between "game" and "software" that we're going to get. And, while we are admittedly less familiar with it, promotional software such as Super Mario Sunshine: La Guía oficial and Super Mario Sunshine Game Preview CD (why'd Sunshine get two examples?) does feel like a fairly standard shoe-in. It's not perfect, of course, and there will always be edge-cases. Cough cough, Mario Clock and Mario Calculator, which are both described as "applications" (software for our standards) and games, as well as Super Mario Collection Screen Saver... Just, in general. These can be determined at a later date as we deem it necessary. For now, though, we think at least acknowledging the trivial positives is a no-brainer.

#Yoshi18 (talk) In the first two you literally do nothing. Bomb Desktop Buddy is the only one of these three with some interaction but the interaction is still minimalistic (it's still minimalistic when comparing it to Mario Paint and Family BASIC).

Subject 5: Should Bomb Desktop Buddy be considered a game?

Yeah!

1. Camwoodstock (talk) We could genuinely flip-flop on this all day, to be honest. It's clearly meant for entertainment, but it's also not really a "game", moreso a "toy"... But we can't imagine considering this "software" without risking some pretty nasty collateral. We think it can stay for now.
2. RYKITU Buddy 2: Electric Boogaloo (talk) Per Cam.

Nah...

1. SuperGamer18 (talk) Per proposal.

Comments: To game or not to game, that is the question

Out of curiosity, why "Applications" and not just "Software"? Plenty of the examples that come to mind for us (the aforementioned Tech Demos and Internal Tests, but also Super Mario Collection Screen Saver, the Super Mario Sunshine Game Preview CD (not to be confused with La Guía oficial), and the MediaBrowsers aren't really considered "applications". In fact, outside of Literally Mobile Device Applications, the only time we can think of Nintendo ever called things like these "applications" were... for Mario Clock and Mario Calculator, primarily in the Nintendo DSi + Internet applet... which are not actually called applications in their own description on the DSiWare Shop. We figure "software" is probably a better term for these; sure, all apps are software, but not all software are apps. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 16:07, January 12, 2026 (EST)

Y'know, this might actually make a bit more sense, though I was using applications and software as a synonym in this context. Though going back to the application images category mentioned in the proposal, note how it specifically says the following: "[...], or other type of software application." I'll reformulate the proposal a bit to account for this discrepancy of mine. (truly a non-native speaker moment) SuperGamer18 (talk) 16:15, January 12, 2026 (EST)

Fair enough! We should also ask, if there any reason for combining Bomb Desktop Buddy with the tech demos/promo software? Having mucked around with it for a bit, it feels a bit more like a digital "toy" of sorts, which... Okay, it's not much, but we argue it has a better argument for being a "game" over the other two. :O ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 17:06, January 12, 2026 (EST)

I'd actually be against that due to one key reason. If you haven't noticed already, none of the tech demos (or the internal tests for that matter) could be downloaded through any official medium for the purpose of keeping it (out of the former, only the GBC promo has a ROM dump, but that's beside the point), however Bomb Desktop Buddy (or WarioWare: Touched Souvenier if you prefer) could easily be downloaded off of an official website for WarioWare: Touched! (tho I've never found the download link in its intended way.) SuperGamer18 (talk) 17:18, January 12, 2026 (EST)

We mostly ask as the Game Boy Color Demo is expressly marked as a Tech demo on the page for those, putting it in a pretty unique spot compared to the Bomb Desktop Buddy/WarioWare: Touched Souven(ir/ier) and Super Mario Sunshine: La Guía oficial where the two are clearly meant to be accessible to the public. If it came down to us, we'd classify the Game Boy Color and La Guía oficial as software, but the WarioWare: Touched thing is... A lot more ambiguous to us, and honestly, our answer for if that's "game" enough could basically depend on a coinflip. (If that makes any sense?) ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 17:21, January 12, 2026 (EST)

Oh well, I'm not quite sure what to say here, though technically speaking, that WarioWare: Touched! goodie is technically also software, but it may indeed be something deeper, as you're suggesting... I will give you a fun fact though: this proposal originally covered all three of those separately (with no coverage for the Mario image printing games at all), though I felt like rewriting it to mention more than one piece of software in some subjects was a better idea. SuperGamer18 (talk) 17:27, January 12, 2026 (EST)

Now that I think about it, yeah, I don't think I made the best choice of software here... Hey, at least I tried, and that's what matters! I might consider separating that silly one from the rest (regarding subject 4), tho it's late where I live so I'll make any further changes tomorrow. SuperGamer18 (talk) 21:08, January 12, 2026 (EST)

@Nelsonic, can I ask for some clarifcation on your support vote for subject 4? I mean, in the first two games you literally do nothing; you just watch gameplay videos (very small gameplay videos for the former) and that's it. Bomb Desktop Buddy is the only one of the three with some interaction but it's still minimalistic. Yoshi18 (talk/contribs) 17:48, January 12, 2026 (EST)

@Yoshi18 Personally, I just don't think a distinction should be made (in terms of the list of games) between games and software, which the titles in option 4 fall into the category of; as was said by Camwoodstock in a comment on a proposal I made a while ago, there's not enough Mario-related non-game software to warrant a split list/category-wise between the two. Nelsonic (talk edits) 17:55, January 12, 2026 (EST)

Honestly I thought it was because you had considered the initial version I wrote instead of the revised one I currently have because of you guessed it, Camwoodstock. SuperGamer18 (talk) 20:53, January 12, 2026 (EST)

@Yoshi18 There's a reason Wandering Poplin had to change part of their message in their subject 2 vote, would you please change it back to how it was before? (See the history for context) SuperGamer18 (talk) 20:58, January 12, 2026 (EST)

Subject 4 doesn't feel appropriate, because I think various users would have different opinions about the three presented 'games'. What if they agree that the first two don't count, but the third does? Shadow2 (talk) 06:01, January 13, 2026 (EST)

I've already received similar feedback from Camwoodstock and I'll try to find a way to handle this proposal in a better way. In the meanwhile, I'll go ahead and split up Bomb Desktop Buddy from the others. SuperGamer18 (talk) 13:00, January 13, 2026 (EST)

Well, it's a damn shame that I had to edit this proposal so many times... At least I tried justifying my opinions here, and that's what matters in the end, right? SuperGamer18 (talk) 13:08, January 13, 2026 (EST)