MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/57: Difference between revisions
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===Use a unique archive color for proposals that fail to reach a consensus=== | ===Use a unique archive color for proposals that fail to reach a consensus=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|12-0}} | ||
This is something that's been bugging me for a while now. Currently, we don't have a unique color for proposals that fail to reach a consensus (i.e. proposals that get extended three times and end without any option properly "winning"). Currently we just mark them red, the same color used for proposals that straight up fail. This isn't totally illogical, since the result of both outcomes is similar (the proposed changes are not implemented and there's a minimum 4 week wait to propose again). However, I still feel that this needlessly obfuscates the archive, making it impossible to tell which proposals failed by consensus and which ones stalemated without clicking on each and every proposal link in the archive marked red, especially since there is no text in the archive that clarifies this. As a result of this, people browsing through the archive are forced to do extra work just to determine which ones are which for no good reason. Stalemates are common enough that it would be useful to be able to tell them apart easily. | This is something that's been bugging me for a while now. Currently, we don't have a unique color for proposals that fail to reach a consensus (i.e. proposals that get extended three times and end without any option properly "winning"). Currently we just mark them red, the same color used for proposals that straight up fail. This isn't totally illogical, since the result of both outcomes is similar (the proposed changes are not implemented and there's a minimum 4 week wait to propose again). However, I still feel that this needlessly obfuscates the archive, making it impossible to tell which proposals failed by consensus and which ones stalemated without clicking on each and every proposal link in the archive marked red, especially since there is no text in the archive that clarifies this. As a result of this, people browsing through the archive are forced to do extra work just to determine which ones are which for no good reason. Stalemates are common enough that it would be useful to be able to tell them apart easily. | ||
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===Listing changes on articles for ports, remakes, and remasters=== | ===Listing changes on articles for ports, remakes, and remasters=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|0-8-1|hybrid of prose and bullet points}} | ||
Recently, the Changes section of ''[[Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury]]'' has been discussed while the article is being nominated for Featured status. The biggest issue right now seems to be whether to write the list of changes to ''3D World'' as prose or a bullet-pointed list. | Recently, the Changes section of ''[[Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury]]'' has been discussed while the article is being nominated for Featured status. The biggest issue right now seems to be whether to write the list of changes to ''3D World'' as prose or a bullet-pointed list. | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
I'll post the discord comments I made when the topic was brought up (also the proposal main text made it sound like i recommended the bowser's fury page to be like SMA2's when what happened is that BLOF brought it and the Super Mario All-Stars as examples of how those sections should be written and I opined I don,t think they work very well, and then brought up my own idea on how those sections should be done) | I'll post the discord comments I made when the topic was brought up (also the proposal main text made it sound like i recommended the bowser's fury page to be like SMA2's when what happened is that BLOF brought it and the Super Mario All-Stars as examples of how those sections should be written and I opined I don,t think they work very well, and then brought up my own idea on how those sections should be done) | ||
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===How to handle ''Super Mario Odyssey'' sub-locations=== | ===How to handle ''Super Mario Odyssey'' sub-locations=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|1-7-1|leave locations marked "keep" and "borderline" split, merge the rest}} | ||
Here we go. After years of development hell, it's finally time to do this. | Here we go. After years of development hell, it's finally time to do this. | ||
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===Categorizing minigames=== | ===Categorizing minigames=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|1-0-4|Use both}} | ||
In ''[[Mario Party Superstars]]'', there are several "Bowser Minigames". These minigames aren't categorized as Bowser minigames in-game, but these minigames can be played when landing on a Bowser Space and by getting the Bowser Minigame option. Current examples include [[Face Lift]], [[Dark 'n Crispy]], and [[Pit Boss]]. So, should they be their in-game minigame types, Bowser minigames, or should they be both? | In ''[[Mario Party Superstars]]'', there are several "Bowser Minigames". These minigames aren't categorized as Bowser minigames in-game, but these minigames can be played when landing on a Bowser Space and by getting the Bowser Minigame option. Current examples include [[Face Lift]], [[Dark 'n Crispy]], and [[Pit Boss]]. So, should they be their in-game minigame types, Bowser minigames, or should they be both? | ||
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===Define the scope of "Other appearances" sections=== | ===Define the scope of "Other appearances" sections=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|0-0-6-0|Integrate only appearances from third-party media we don't cover}} | ||
It's basically a done deal that the Mario Wiki organises most appearances of its wealth of subjects by relevant fictional works. However, some appearances, whether they are in-franchise cameos or third-party licensed appearances, are pigeonholed into an "Other appearances" section, and this is a fairly inconsistent approach that is to be discussed in general terms before any [[Talk:Blurp#Consider the Super Mario Maker games a design cameo rather than a full appearance|particular cases are decided upon]] as an "other appearance", so to speak. | It's basically a done deal that the Mario Wiki organises most appearances of its wealth of subjects by relevant fictional works. However, some appearances, whether they are in-franchise cameos or third-party licensed appearances, are pigeonholed into an "Other appearances" section, and this is a fairly inconsistent approach that is to be discussed in general terms before any [[Talk:Blurp#Consider the Super Mario Maker games a design cameo rather than a full appearance|particular cases are decided upon]] as an "other appearance", so to speak. | ||
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*'''Significant, in-franchise appearance:''' Those appearances where a subject has a perceptible effect on the viewer's or player's experience--as a character, enemy, item, or setting. | *'''Significant, in-franchise appearance:''' Those appearances where a subject has a perceptible effect on the viewer's or player's experience--as a character, enemy, item, or setting. | ||
*'''Cameo appearances:''' Those appearances where a known subject shows up but does not affect the course of a story or the gameplay, instead serving as a small distraction or piece of fan-service for the viewer or player. (Simple mentions of a subject, without said subject making any physical appearance, are taken to be "cameos" in the context of this proposal, for the sake of brevity.) | *'''Cameo appearances:''' Those appearances where a known subject shows up but does not affect the course of a story or the gameplay, instead serving as a small distraction or piece of fan-service for the viewer or player. (Simple mentions of a subject, without said subject making any physical appearance, are taken to be "cameos" in the context of this proposal, for the sake of brevity.) | ||
*'''Appearances outside the home franchise:''' What it says on the tin: subjects appearing in media outside of their franchise or universe of origin. Many such appearances can be of a parodical or referential nature and not necessarily enabled or endorsed by the proprietary entity, and for those the wiki has already established coverage in the form of [[Lists of | *'''Appearances outside the home franchise:''' What it says on the tin: subjects appearing in media outside of their franchise or universe of origin. Many such appearances can be of a parodical or referential nature and not necessarily enabled or endorsed by the proprietary entity, and for those the wiki has already established coverage in the form of [[Lists of references|Lists of references]]. However, some of these appearances, third-party as they are, are indeed licensed for use and, where applicable, warrant being covered in some form on subject articles. | ||
Coverage for the first one, again, is firmly set in stone and disregarded by the proposal. As it's been well-established, if a Goomba kills you in a game, we make a section for that game on Goomba's article. The second and third ones are relevant here, with the third one commanding perhaps the most attention. As it stands, third-party appearances can be further assigned two scenarios: one in which we give the relevant fictional work [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Guest appearances|"guest"]]-type article coverage, and one in which we do not. | Coverage for the first one, again, is firmly set in stone and disregarded by the proposal. As it's been well-established, if a Goomba kills you in a game, we make a section for that game on Goomba's article. The second and third ones are relevant here, with the third one commanding perhaps the most attention. As it stands, third-party appearances can be further assigned two scenarios: one in which we give the relevant fictional work [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Guest appearances|"guest"]]-type article coverage, and one in which we do not. | ||
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===Decide if obscure media filenames from Nintendo's websites qualify as sources for subject names=== | ===Decide if obscure media filenames from Nintendo's websites qualify as sources for subject names=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|failed|2-5-12|Do not cite these filenames at all}} | ||
In my efforts to cover Nintendo's diverse promotional online material on the wiki, I've come across a number of images whose filenames provide unique spellings of a subject's name, or even new names altogether. I am aware this wiki, by and large, has allowed the citing of internal filenames as sources for the names of certain subjects, such as [[Uckykong]] and the ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' planets, but I find the aforementioned website filenames to be of a different nature: in-game filenames originate from a game's developers, who have arguably much higher authority over how a subject is called than the person who mistypes the filenames in a press kit, officially endued as they may be. Furthermore, these website filenames can be rather poorly formatted. Take [https://play.nintendo.com/images/PLAY-5322-MPS-poll01_1x1-IveHockey_v02.6ef5f3152e16d0ba.jpg this image] from [[Play Nintendo]], for example; the subject it depicts, the [[Ice Hockey (minigame)|Ice Hockey]] minigame from ''[[Mario Party Superstars]]'', is mispelled as "Ive Hockey" in the picture's filename. An official mispelling for sure, but a mispelling nevertheless, and I have my doubts on how well it would reflect on the wiki to acknowledge '''Ive Hockey''' as an alternate name for that minigame on its article, given the "source". | In my efforts to cover Nintendo's diverse promotional online material on the wiki, I've come across a number of images whose filenames provide unique spellings of a subject's name, or even new names altogether. I am aware this wiki, by and large, has allowed the citing of internal filenames as sources for the names of certain subjects, such as [[Uckykong]] and the ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' planets, but I find the aforementioned website filenames to be of a different nature: in-game filenames originate from a game's developers, who have arguably much higher authority over how a subject is called than the person who mistypes the filenames in a press kit, officially endued as they may be. Furthermore, these website filenames can be rather poorly formatted. Take [https://play.nintendo.com/images/PLAY-5322-MPS-poll01_1x1-IveHockey_v02.6ef5f3152e16d0ba.jpg this image] from [[Play Nintendo]], for example; the subject it depicts, the [[Ice Hockey (minigame)|Ice Hockey]] minigame from ''[[Mario Party Superstars]]'', is mispelled as "Ive Hockey" in the picture's filename. An official mispelling for sure, but a mispelling nevertheless, and I have my doubts on how well it would reflect on the wiki to acknowledge '''Ive Hockey''' as an alternate name for that minigame on its article, given the "source". | ||
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===Make new templates for frequent reminders=== | ===Make new templates for frequent reminders=== | ||
{{ | {{Proposal outcome|passed|9-0|Make new templates}} | ||
Apparently, some have been using the copy-paste reminders/warnings I have on my [[User:Alex95/Sandbox#Generic_reminders/warnings_that_get_used_a_lot|sandbox]] since I first started writing them down in April 2019. I wrote them down for a quick thing to pull from, but they're being used frequently enough that, hey, maybe I should put them somewhere useful. | Apparently, some have been using the copy-paste reminders/warnings I have on my [[User:Alex95/Sandbox#Generic_reminders/warnings_that_get_used_a_lot|sandbox]] since I first started writing them down in April 2019. I wrote them down for a quick thing to pull from, but they're being used frequently enough that, hey, maybe I should put them somewhere useful. | ||
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:I'm an idiot who thought that would work lol | :I'm an idiot who thought that would work lol | ||
:I guess the criteria for which should be excluded would be completely arbitrary, so now it's all-or-nothing. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 14:15, December 22, 2021 (EST) | :I guess the criteria for which should be excluded would be completely arbitrary, so now it's all-or-nothing. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 14:15, December 22, 2021 (EST) | ||
===Allow an external link to Zelda Dungeon Wiki and/or Triforce Wiki in the External links section of some ''The Legend of Zelda''-related articles=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|passed|10-0|Both}} | |||
Before you comment, I want you all to know that this is not an attack on Zelda Wiki. I merely made this proposal to reflect the fact that there are two other independently hosted ''The Legend of Zelda'' wikis, Zelda Dungeon Wiki and [https://triforcewiki.com Triforce Wiki], both with their own community, with the former having a larger one. This proposal is NOT asking to change interwiki links to other ''The Legend of Zelda'' wikis either, as NIWA wikis take priority, especially to reflect how they are also listed on the Main page. | |||
This can be handled similarly to the Sonic wiki situation. Take the [[Sonic the Hedgehog]] article for example—there is an external link to both Sonic Retro and Sonic News Network, presumably because Sonic Retro is a lot more behind on coverage than Sonic News Network. Triforce Wiki doesn't even have 1,000 articles yet whereas Zelda Dungeon Wiki has over 10,000 articles. Similarly, on the [[Link]] article, what this would mean is that there would be an External links section listing the Zelda Dungeon Wiki article first and then the Triforce Wiki article below it. | |||
As many probably know, I am the founder of Triforce Wiki, although I handed it over to grifkuba for hosting (they host a couple of other NIWA wikis, so this gives it some credibility) & it is under new leadership. However, adding links to Triforce Wiki might come across to some as a conflict of interest, as a majority of its userbase is from the Super Mario Wiki itself. Because of this, the proposal will have an option to only allow a Zelda Dungeon Wiki link in the External links section of ''The Legend of Zelda''-related articles. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Results May Vary}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': January 3, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Both==== | |||
#{{User|Results May Vary}} As per reasons stated above. | |||
#{{User|Metalex123}} I think it's a great idea. Zelda Wiki, Zelda Dungeon and Triforce Wiki all have different styles, so readers could enjoy more than just one Zelda-related wiki. Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} This has my full support. | |||
#{{user|7feetunder}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} This is probably incredibly biased due to Triforce being effectively a pet project of mine, buuuuuut per proposal. ZD needs more recognition as it is. | |||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} I'm completely for cutting ties off Zelda Wiki altogether, make no mistake, but small steps like this is a good start. | |||
#{{User|RHG1951}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Per all. I was never a fan of how Zelda Wiki works anyways. | |||
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per all. | |||
====Zelda Dungeon Wiki only==== | |||
====Neither==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
I have a concern regarding this proposal. I like the concept of linking to other Zelda wikis to give off choice, but what does Triforce Wiki and Zelda Dungeons Wiki have to offer to be used as external links? Are they vastly superior to link over Zelda Wiki? I feel like this might be a "conflict-of-interest" regardless of what it is said on the proposal. {{User:PanchamBro/sig}} 19:29, December 30, 2021 (EST) | |||
:If readers are given extra choices then it's not a conflict of interest -- what would be a conflict of interest is like replacing all of the ZW links with Triforce Wiki links just because the wiki styles are nearly identical. The average reader doesn't know about the Zelda situation, and it wouldn't make a difference to them. Like I said in the proposal, Grifkuba hosts Triforce Wiki for one, and two, Zelda Dungeon is a long-standing Zelda fansite & its wiki has been around for at least a decade. There is no conflict of interest in acknowledging the existence of these two wikis. [[User:Results May Vary|Results May Vary]] ([[User talk:Results May Vary|talk]]) 22:43, December 30, 2021 (EST) | |||
===Create "Unused appearances" sections in history=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|passed|9-2-0|Create with headers}} | |||
Unused appearances are currently covered in the "Other appearances" headers in history sections as a result of [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/54#Determine_how_to_handle_unused_appearances|this 2019 proposal]], however a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/57#Define_the_scope_of_"Other_appearances"_sections|more recent proposal]] refined the scope of other appearances sections to mostly cover third-party media that is otherwise outside of our coverage, while still retaining the unused appearances due to the earlier proposal, which seems very weird, in my opinion. So, I'm proposing to add an additional Unused appearances section which will go at the bottom of history sections and cover all unused appearances. | |||
If the '''create with headers''' option is chosen, unused appearances sections will be divided by game and series, like normal history sections. If the '''create without headers''' option is chosen, there will be a single header where all information is kept. If '''do nothing''' is chosen, well, that's self-explanatory. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': January 11, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Create with headers==== | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per the proposer, who, might I add, seems like a very neat person. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} It makes sense to separate this information from the “Other appearances” sections if they are generally only for third-party appearances now, and I feel that using headers would make it more organized. | |||
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all, this sounds like it would make coverage of unused appearances a lot more consistent. | |||
#{{User|Results May Vary}} Per all, this sounds like a good idea, especially by putting it at the bottom of the history section as mentioned in the proposal to reflect how it went unused and therefore are more of a footnote in that subject's history. | |||
#{{User|Swallow}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|WildWario}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per TheFlameChomp. | |||
====Create without headers==== | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Second choice. | |||
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I feel this would be better suited for "edge cases" ([[Beach Koopa#Other appearances|Beach Koopa]], [[Scorchit]], [[Yoshi Cookie#Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island|Yoshi Cookie]], [[Fishing Boo#Trivia|Fishing Boo]], [[list of Super Paper Mario pre-release and unused content#Miscellaneous|left]][[tcrf:Super Mario Galaxy#Jungle Beat Leftovers|over]]s, etc.). | |||
====Do nothing==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
===Rename "List of clothing" articles for the ''Mario & Luigi'' series to "List of gear", and merge "List of badges" articles for ''Superstar Saga'' and ''Partners in Time'' with those respective articles=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|passed|4-0-0|Do both}} | |||
Regarding the former part, "gear" is the term more consistantly used in these games such as in the menu and in shops. Regarding the latter, lists for the different types of gear (e.g gloves and boots) are not split (and the badge list for Superstar Saga's remake is already merged), so this would make those more consistant with the other pages. | |||
I will list the articles here for convenience:<br> | |||
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]]; [[List of badges in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]]<br> | |||
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time]]; [[List of badges in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time]]<br> | |||
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story]]<br> | |||
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Dream Team]]<br> | |||
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam]]<br> | |||
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions]]<br> | |||
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey]] | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Swallow}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': January 14, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Do both==== | |||
#{{User|Swallow}} Per proposal | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Per Swallow. | |||
#{{user|7feetunder}} Per proposal. | |||
====Only rename articles==== | |||
====Only merge badge lists with respective clothing articles==== | |||
====Do neither==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Reminder I did pass a proposal to split all the individual items in them, but haven't yet gotten around to it due to the massive undertaking it will be. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:15, January 7, 2022 (EST) | |||
:We could still retain the list pages to link to all the articles afterwards. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:19, January 7, 2022 (EST) | |||
::Yeah there's still no reason to not have these list pages. For one thing, we still have articles listing all the badges in the first two Paper Mario games which all have their own articles. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 15:28, January 7, 2022 (EST) | |||
Shouldn't these article names be "List of (game title) gear" anyway, to be consistent with every other list articles (ie [[List of Mario Party 6 minigames]], [[List of Paper Mario quotes]], [[List of Super Mario Odyssey media]])? {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 17:01, January 10, 2022 (EST) | |||
:There are still some article titles that are not like that, such as [[List of weapons in Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle]] and the aforementioned ''Paper Mario'' [[List of badges in Paper Mario|badge]] [[List of badges in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door|lists]]. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 17:46, January 10, 2022 (EST) | |||
::I do think the other articles should be renamed to match most listicles in the wiki. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 19:32, January 11, 2022 (EST) | |||
===Split or Merge ''Mario Kart Tour's'' Pallet Swaps=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|canceled}} | |||
Okay, this has been on my mind for a bit now and it's largely in part to the [[Talk:Spike Top#Merge Red Spike Top with Spike Top, Take Three|Red Spike Top]] proposal going on. Red Spike Tops are considered being merged because they feature no distinct differences from Spike Tops other than their shell color. Despite opposing, I can see the logic behind this; they are pallet swaps and, for the most part, pallet swaps are naturally kept together in the parent species article. This got the gears in my brain turning and I realized that we have articles for pallet swapped karts and gliders from ''Mario Kart Tour'', but we don't have articles for the pallet swapped characters. The karts and gliders have their own articles because they have [[Talk:Turbo Yoshi#Comments|different special skills, Favorite Courses and Favored Courses]], but it strikes me as odd that the characters don't get the same treatment, despite having the same differences. I made a whole [[User:Tails777/Work|work page]] detailing as much as I could, but perhaps diving into the entire pallet swap deal as a whole would be a bit of a big jump. So I propose we start with ''Mario Kart Tour'', a game that I feel has an ongoing inconsistency with the idea. Karts and Gliders have their own articles, pallet swap or not, but the characters do not. So I propose one of three options: | |||
*'''Split Pallet Swapped Characters:''' This option would be to split the characters that are mere color swaps: Yoshis, Shy Guys, Pit Crew Toads, Birdos, Freerunning Koopas and the golden variants (Dry Bones, King Boo etc). These articles would only cover their appearances in ''Mario Kart Tour'' for now and not the appearances in games such the ''Mario Baseball series'' or ''Mario Sports Superstars''. They would be consistent with the pallet swapped karts and gliders, which all have their own articles. For now, I think this should be limited to the colored pallet swaps only rather than the actual characters dressed up in themed outfits, unless people think those would be strong enough to have their own articles too. | |||
*'''Merge Pallet Swapped Karts/Gliders:''' This option is obviously the opposite. Karts and gliders would be merged into their the articles of the karts and gliders they are based on, much like how the characters are currently handled. Examples would include the B Dasher variants to the [[B Dasher]] article, the [[Pumpkin Kart]] and it's [[Gold Pumpkin Kart|gold variant]] to the [[Apple Kart]] and such. This would not apply to the Gold Glider or Gold Standard, as both have previously appeared in ''Mario Kart 7'' and ''8'', as well as the Gold Standard only appearing in Gold Rush mode in ''Tour'' and not being a fully usable kart anyway. | |||
*'''Do Nothing:''' Nothing happens and wiki life continues as normal. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Tails777}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' January 27, 2022, 23:59 GMT<br> | |||
'''Date Withdrawn:''' January 21, 2022 | |||
====Split ''Mario Kart Tour'' Pallet Swap Characters==== | |||
#{{User|Tails777}} This is personally my preferred option. It remains consistent with the karts and gliders by only covering their appearance in ''Mario Kart Tour'', providing articles covering the same differences as the karts and gliders do. | |||
====Merge ''Mario Kart Tour'' Pallet Swap Karts/Gliders==== | |||
#{{User|Tails777}} This would be my secondary choice, as merging them would make them more consistent with how we treat the costumed characters. | |||
====Do Nothing==== | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} I kind of agree with the sentiment behind this proposal, but I feel like it simultaneously doesn't go far enough in some areas and too far in others. If the split articles only cover Mario Kart Tour that'll not only be very inconsistent with other color variants that got articles but feel very arbitrary (why does Red Yoshi's appearance in Tour only get coverage when there's also stat differences, SMW powers etc.? That's just one example). At the same time I don't know how many of these need to be split, breaking up the Roving Racers into multiple pages (which again, wouldn't cover Odyssey for some reason) feels kind of unnecessary. More importantly: How would this affect costume swaps? They're not mentioned here, but for all intents and purposes, the difference between Wario and Wario (Hiker) is the same as Yoshi and Blue Yoshi. I'm all for reconsidering our stance on giving articles to palette swaps, and at the very least I'd like to see the Yoshi merge reversed, but this isn't the way to do it, I think. | |||
#{{User|7feetunder}} Per Waluigi Time. | |||
#{{User|Swallow}} This would be way too excessive. | |||
#{{User|WildWario}} Splitting most of the variant drivers in my opinion is too excessive. They share most of their animations with the original too. If we had an article for "King Boo (Gold)", it would be too short, since it only appears in one game, and it's content will likely be too repetitive with King Boo. The kart/glider merges would be weird too, as [[Calico Parafoil]] and [[Rose Parasol]] are variants of the [[Parafoil]] and [[Peach Parasol]], but they look completely different. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Like Waluigi Time, I am not opposed to the idea of reconsidering how certain palette swaps are dealt with, but I have concerns that this proposal creates too many inconsistencies by focusing solely on ''Mario Kart Tour'', and even feels somewhat inconsistent by the way it addresses that game alone by not addressing the costumes. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
'''@Waluigi Time''': The main reason I'm choosing to cover ''Tour'' only right now is because it's got a very simple, kinda enclosed solution. As I mentioned, diving into all sorts of pallet swaps deals with a lot more than just the Yoshis or Shy Guys; it could steer into RPG enemies as well, as they also feature pallet swaps and different stats. Trust me, I'd fully support splitting the Yoshis back into their separate articles because of their multiple appearances with differences (as you mentioned, ''Super Mario World''). But because that topic covers so much, I thought it would be a hard and somewhat complicated place to start. So I thought of covering ''Tour'' only because the solutions are more simple to work with. Additionally, I do address the idea of costumed alternates, being something that could also qualify if people think they should. I would also support the idea, because like the colored pallet swaps, karts and gliders, they feature the same differences. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | |||
:It's not as simple as you think. I mean, you want to do this for consistency, but doing it creates multiple blatant inconsistencies as Waluigi Time said, not to mention the arbitrariness of splitting ''only'' the palette swaps and not alternate costumes like Detective Baby Rosalina. Sometimes a "simple" solution just doesn't cut it. <small>Also, you're spelling "palette" wrong, we're not talking about a town in ''Pokémon''.</small> {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 20:23, January 20, 2022 (EST) | |||
::There is already an inconsistency though. Like, the Shy Guys are merged, but not the B Dasher Mk. 2s? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:32, January 20, 2022 (EST) | |||
::'''@7feetunder''': Okay, in my defense, I TRIED to think about as much of this as possible. I wrote a lot down on my personal work page about this, but my main thought was to TRY to come up with something simple. I understand this is not an easy topic to tackle, but I still wanted to try something. I felt it would've been easier to simply start with how we cover ''Mario Kart Tour's'' topics; as the karts and gliders do get articles, but the characters do not. Like I said, twice, I'm open to include the costumed alternates because they feature the same differences. And to be frankly honest, I don't appreciate my efforts being casually passed off as "arbitrary". I understand I've jumped the gun more often than not recently and I really did want to avoid that this time. But to say I put no thought into this feels unfair. <small>Also thank you, I get spellings mixed up a lot</small>{{User:Tails777/sig}} | |||
:::No need to get defensive, no one here is attacking you. I did not say anything about you putting "no thought" into this. Anyway, sometimes in situations like this, it's better to start a plain discussion to get ideas from the community than trying to jump right into a proposal. Like I said, sometimes there ''is'' no easy solution to a problem, and this is one of those times. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 21:36, January 20, 2022 (EST) | |||
:::::Okay, no problem. I didn't mean to get defensive in a negative way. But I definitely want to strike a discussion about this and I'm going about doing so. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | |||
What's your opinion on [[Goo-Goo Buggy]]/[[Rattle Buggy]], [[Red Fire]]/[[Green Fire]], [[Heart Coach]]/[[Bloom Coach]], [[Piranha Pipes]]/[[Boo Pipes]], [[Light Tripper]]/[[Light Dancer]] as well as the StandardXX articles (like [[Standard BW]])? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:21, January 20, 2022 (EST) | |||
:I more support the idea of splitting these types of topics, so the Double Dash Karts and MKDS standards are fine the way they are in my point of view. They feature difference stats, with karts like the Boo Pipes being different among most heavyweight karts. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | |||
::Yeah, I know it's different games, but it's just to help jog the cogs a little. So, the reasoning here is that these karts have different stats, but anyhow, one argues that the colored characters in some games also have different stats, like the colored Yoshis across Baseball AND in Mario Tennis Open as well as in Yoshi Touch & Go and Super Mario Run. Same for the merged colored Shy Guys who have different stats in both Baseball and in Smash Run (as well as different tattles). So, how are we to proceed with alts of the Mario Kart Tour? Why should Pit Stop Toad be merged with Toad while Sky-Blue B Dasher Mk. 2 gets a separate page from B Dasher Mk. 2? Note you can make a case for Swimsuit Rosalina merged with Rosalina due to pertaining to one character ultimately, but you can't argue this for generic species. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:59, January 20, 2022 (EST) | |||
:::I did try to dive into pallet swaps in a more broad sense, addressing the idea of appearances in the ‘’Mario Baseball series’’ and such. I’d greatly support including that information too, as they showcase clear differences, but I thought starting with everything at once would be going too far, which is why I started at ‘’Mario Kart Tour’’ alone. I’ve written down everything on my work page [[User:Tails777/Work|here]] and I would appreciate it if people could look at it so it may hopefully add to this discussion. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | |||
::::I see. Though I appreciate the attempt of firing up a proposal draw attention to an issue in the wiki, I do think the proposal is a little premature if your aims is to have a sort of way of dealing with current large inconsistencies on coverage, no offense! [[File:DrMW Goomba Patient 3.png|30px]] I think you should first try to gauge how people view this coverage, see if it's a serious problem, and then work out a few solutions, maybe starting even smaller scale like talk page discussions. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 21:19, January 20, 2022 (EST) | |||
:::::No offense taken. If anything, I appreciate that. Honestly, part of me didn't know where to bring this up, whether it was something that could be just fired up on a talk page or if I had to go to the forums. Starting a proposal was just the first place my brain went to cause it was something most people would notice. I apologize if I jumped the gun again. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | |||
I am willing to withdraw this proposal to talk about the topic more elsewhere. I completely understand where the opposing side is getting at: the idea of covering ''Tour'' only. Again, my reasoning was an attempt at starting simple, but it is very clear that it was not nearly as simple as anticipated. However, I still can't understand why we'll make articles for the [[Blue Biddybuggy]], which is literally the blue color swap from ''Mario Kart 8'', but not for something like Blue Yoshi. That's where my main concern comes from. In my overall opinion, I'd rather split articles like colored Yoshis and cover every instance where their colors differentiated from each other, such as in ''Super Mario World'', the ''Mario Baseball series'' and such, and do so for other pallet swaps. I really do want to discuss this further to try to come to some sort of conclusion. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | |||
===Merge [[Spiky John]] with [[Spiky Tom]] (or place both under [[Koopatrol]])=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-0-8|Do nothing}} | |||
Both are Koopatrols who take part in a quiz show. There isn’t a lot to say about either one given their short appearance. IDK why they have different pages to begin with if [[Ashley & Red]], [[Kat & Ana]], [[Young Cricket & Master Mantis]] or [[Dribble & Spitz]] have more appearances but are merged together. Their appearance is so brief that they could probably be merged under Koopatrol as well. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Remembered Old Buddy}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': February 1, 2022, 2:27 PM GMT | |||
====Merge Spiky John with Spiky Tom==== | |||
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} They're named, unique characters, so they still fall under the [[MarioWiki:Minor NPCs|minor NPCs policy]]. If anything, I would be fine with this option. | |||
#{{User|Remembered Old Buddy}} Per proposal | |||
====Merge them under Koopatrol==== | |||
====Do not merge==== | |||
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Second choice. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Archivist Toadette. This would also be inconsistent with [[Gary (Super Paper Mario)|Gary]] and [[Goomba (Super Paper Mario character)|Goomba (''Super Paper Mario'' character)]] being split. | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} They're both valid articles per [[MarioWiki:Minor NPCs]]. | |||
#{{User|Tails777}} Per Hewer. | |||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Swallow}} Per all | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|OhoJeeOnFire}} Per all. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Hewer, we can merge the Goombas as well. {{User:Remembered Old Buddy/sig}} | |||
===Merging of ''Wrecking Crew'' and ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|no quorum|2-0-0-0}} | |||
There are 100 different phases in ''[[Wrecking Crew]]'' and ''[[VS. Wrecking Crew]]'' that don't have much going for them. In ''Wrecking Crew'', phases are constructed out of the same few tiles and enemies. Unlike other ''Mario'' games, I believe there isn't enough information in a single stage to justify creating a new article for each of them. You can see the phases on [https://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/wreckingcrew/ The Spriters Resource]. ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases are even more simular, every phase looks just like the other. I propose to merge these phases into two article for each game: [[List of Wrecking Crew phases|List of ''Wrecking Crew'' phases]] and [[List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases|List of ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases]]. | |||
'''Affected pages:''' | |||
* [[Phase 1 (VS. Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 2 (VS. Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 1 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 2 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 3 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 4 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 5 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 6 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 7 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 8 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[:Category:Wrecking Crew levels]] | |||
* [[:Category:VS. Wrecking Crew levels]] | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Spectrogram}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': February 16, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Merge into "List of ''Wrecking Crew'' phases" and "List of ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases"==== | |||
#{{User|Spectrogram}} per proposal. | |||
#{{User|RHG1951}} I think lists would better suit these games because of the abundance of phases and the more arcade-style gameplay de-emphasizing the importance of an individual level. | |||
====Only merge ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases==== | |||
====Only merge ''Wrecking Crew'' phases==== | |||
====Keep separate==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
===Merging of ''Wrecking Crew'' and ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases (2)=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|passed|5-0-0-0|merge into two list articles}} | |||
'''''(Relisted)''''' | |||
There are 100 different phases in ''[[Wrecking Crew]]'' and ''[[VS. Wrecking Crew]]'' that don't have much going for them. In ''Wrecking Crew'', phases are constructed out of the same few tiles and enemies. Unlike other ''Mario'' games, I believe there isn't enough information in a single stage to justify creating a new article for each of them. You can see the phases on [https://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/wreckingcrew/ The Spriters Resource]. ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases are even more simular, every phase looks just like the other. I propose to merge these phases into two article for each game: [[List of Wrecking Crew phases|List of ''Wrecking Crew'' phases]] and [[List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases|List of ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases]]. | |||
'''Affected pages:''' | |||
* [[Phase 1 (VS. Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 2 (VS. Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 1 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 2 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 3 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 4 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 5 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 6 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 7 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[Phase 8 (Wrecking Crew)]] | |||
* [[:Category:Wrecking Crew levels]] | |||
* [[:Category:VS. Wrecking Crew levels]] | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Spectrogram}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': February 24, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Merge into "List of ''Wrecking Crew'' phases" and "List of ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases"==== | |||
#{{User|Spectrogram}} per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per Proposal. | |||
#{{User|RHG1951}} Like I stated last time, the abundance of phases and the arcade-style gameplay of both ''Wrecking Crew'' games de-emphasizing the individual phase make them better suited as lists. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} I can understand keeping the phases together in this case, since there are so many of them without much information to go along with them. | |||
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Yeah, they're not really that different between each other. They can easily be covered in a list. | |||
====Only merge ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases==== | |||
====Only merge ''Wrecking Crew'' phases==== | |||
====Keep separate==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
===Create a stat table template for karts in ''Mario Kart DS''=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|passed|8-0|create}} | |||
Though we use [[Template:MKW vehicle|this nice table template]] for the articles on the vehicles of ''[[Mario Kart Wii]]'', we give no such treatment for ''[[Mario Kart DS]]''{{'}}s karts; instead opting to directly list each stat on a range from 1 to 10. There are problems with this, however. | |||
Firstly, the stat values listed are rounded to the nearest .5; this results in stats being slightly inaccurate to how they are displayed on the kart select screen in the game. The most egregious example of this, in my opinion, is the [[Standard DB]]: Despite it having acceleration and handling stats just short of the maximum value (by ''one pixel'', in the case of the former), both stats are listed on its page as a perfect 10/10. | |||
Futhermore, ''Mario Kart DS'' determines weight based on the kart ''and'' the driver, but the weight stats listed on the kart pages are for the karts being used with their default drivers. This results in all of the Standard karts having different weight stats when they should all have the same weight, for example. | |||
Therefore, I propose the creation of a ''Mario Kart DS'' stat table template that can use the stats listed [[Mario_Kart_DS#Karts|here]], in the style of the one we have for ''Mario Kart Wii''. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|ShootingStar7X}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': March 3, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|ShootingStar7X}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Mister Wu}} I think we should give the underlying stats more relevance, but for the moment at least having an accurate reporting of the menu stats should be a goal and this template should help in achieving it. | |||
#{{user|WildWario}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|DannyTheDingo}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Now that that's out of the way, should the weight bonus of the kart's default driver be listed on the template or not? [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 14:41, February 24, 2022 (EST) | |||
:I think it and the off-road multiplier should be listed in the [[Mario Kart DS#Characters|drivers section]] instead, similar to how ''[[Mario Kart Wii#Drivers|Mario Kart Wii]]'' has it currently. The two stats won't even require a separate table, unlike ''Wii'''s seven bonuses. (Have we cited [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AOsNSwGc4NliVi0Wn3YQ4_mjCIyEULE7gIzUn9iDC04/edit?usp=sharing| this data sheet] already? I'll put it here just in case.) {{User:DannyTheDingo/sig}} 06:11, March 3, 2022 (EST) | |||
::We have our own dump of the internal stats, so we refer to that. Sadly, that table doesn't add new columns we haven't decoded yet in the raw data table, and our experience with ''Mario Kart Wii'' is that we can't rely on the reinterpretation tables - sometimes they make mistakes that then are hard to spot without reconstructing how the value was derived.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 07:34, March 3, 2022 (EST) | |||
@Mister Wu — That's a good idea, but how should we implement them into the stat tables: In parentheses after the in-game stat numbers, in a {{tem|hover}} tooltip on the stat numbers, in another table altogether, or something else entirely? [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 21:21, February 24, 2022 (EST) | |||
:For the moment, I think a collapsible section that is hidden by default will work - we still need someone to confirm if the "while drifting" acceleration values are indeed used when drifting and what is the purpose of several additional stats.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 03:41, February 25, 2022 (EST) | |||
::I'm guessing you don't want them displayed in bars like the in-game stats as they don't have an unified maximum value, correct? [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 09:52, February 27, 2022 (EST) | |||
:::You potentially can use bars, but you should first evaluate what you want to do with them: the bars whose length is proportional to the actual value will show small differences in stats like maximum speed, the bars that show the ranking of the kart with respect to that stat will show big differences even when the underlying stat doesn't change that much. The game menu uses a system similar to the latter.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 03:31, February 28, 2022 (EST) | |||
===Do not consider usage of classic recurring themes as references to the game of origin=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|passed|9-0}} | |||
I feel like this wiki has been taking this a bit far. For example, whenever the ''Super Mario Bros.'' ground theme is used in a game, we always consider it a direct reference to the game ''Super Mario Bros.'', when really since then it's become more Mario's main theme. Same with the underground theme for caves and airship theme for airships (usage for those are always considered references to ''Super Mario Bros.'' and ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' respectively). This proposal hopes to cut down on that, and will not affect themes which hardly appear in other games, such as the ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' ground theme appearing in ''Paper Mario: Color Splash''. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Swallow}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': March 9, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|Swallow}} Per proposal; basically any theme that has become a staple throughout the franchise. | |||
#{{User|Somethingone}} Sure. We did the same with enemies a while back, might as well do it for this too. | |||
#{{User|Spectrogram}} per proposal. | |||
#{{User|WildWario}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Tails777}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} If Goombas appear in a game, we don't list it as a reference to ''Super Mario Bros.'' Per all. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
===Decide how to cover the ''Sonic the Hedgehog'' animal friends=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|passed|0-9-0|Create a collective article}} | |||
Alright, so at the moment the ''Sonic the Hedgehog'' animal friends are only covered as external links, and, as they mainly appear as audience members, up until ''Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020'' that worked well enough. But in that game, you can talk to several of the animal characters in the Story Mode, and given that as well as that they've also made consistent appearances across the series and even got a few collectibles to themselves, I think it might be time for them to get a little bit of coverage here too. The animals in question are: | |||
*[[SonicRetro:Cucky|Cuckies]] (Chickens): Olympic audience, 2012 3DS badge, 2020 story mode character, SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo | |||
*[[SonicRetro:Flicky|Flickies]] (Bluebirds): Olympic audience, 2012 3DS badge, 2020 story mode character, SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo | |||
*[[SonicRetro:Pecky|Peckies]] (Penguins): Olympic audience, 2012 3DS badge, 2020 story mode character, SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo | |||
*[[SonicRetro:Picky|Pickies]] (Pigs): Olympic audience, 2012 3DS badge, 2020 story mode character, SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo | |||
*[[SonicRetro:Pocky|Pockies]] (Rabbits): 2020 story mode character, SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo | |||
*[[SonicRetro:Ricky|Rickies]] (Squirrels): SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo | |||
*[[SonicRetro:Rocky|Rockies]] (Walruses): SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo | |||
I think there are three ways to go about it: | |||
*'''Individual articles''': Does what it says on the tin, make separate articles for each of the species of animal. | |||
*'''Collective article''': Create a page that covers all of the animals, in the vein of pages like [[Pokémon]] and [[Assist Trophy]]. Given how minor some of the appearances are, I think this is the best option. The page would probably have a collective history section for all of them, as well as a section just elaborating on what each of them are. | |||
*'''Stick to external links''': Just leave it at Sonic Retro links for all of the animals. | |||
At this moment in time, I wouldn't entirely be sure what to call a collective page, as in crossover appearances they've never had a consistent name (To my knowledge, Fauna of Windy Hill Zone, Animals of Windy Hill Zone, Audience, Sonic's animal pals and simply animals have been used across various games), and I don't know if there's anything more concrete in Sonic games, so please let me know if you can think of a suitable name for the page. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|BBQ Turtle}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': March 20, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Individual articles==== | |||
====Collective article==== | |||
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per proposal | |||
#{{User|Somethingone}} Splitting every single miniscule thing from a collective article due to identity was [[Talk:Costume Mario#Create articles for all Costume Mario characters|something we agreed to not do]] before. I'm voting for this as it's the most consistent way to do it. | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all, if necessary we can re-assess later. (why did you have to remind me of ''that'' proposal) | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Animal/Animals is apparently capitalized on occasion like in ''Sonic Runners'', so you could just go along those lines <s>and now it's "Clucky" because we can't have nice things</s>. | |||
#{{User|Glowsquid}} <s>I would have voted for the first option solely so the wiki can have a page named "Cucky"</s> makes sense | |||
#{{User|DannyTheDingo}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Niiue}} <s>glowsquid no this wiki has enough vandalism magnets as is</s> Per all. | |||
====Stick to external links==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Wasn't it "Cookie" according to the Twitter-card things? Granted they did mix up the animals' names... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:02, March 13, 2022 (EDT) | |||
@BBQTurtle "Small animals" was used for the ''Adventure'' games, but those were the "downsized realistic animals" rather than the toony named ones. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:12, March 14, 2022 (EDT) | |||
===Merge some complete BJAODN "articles" with collections=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|passed|1-4-0-0|Option 2}} | |||
I brought this up on a talk page before, but I feel like I should do a proposal before messing around with anything. | |||
So, I was looking over the BJAODN these past 2 weeks for something, and I feel like quite a few of the complete "articles" are normal-entry-level size, and don't really need a separate page. Most notably, the [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Make a website|Make A Website]] "article". It's literally shorter than about 2/5ths of the collection entries we have, and that's including the one comment on the bottom. And there's a few more complete "articles" like this as well; [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Crotch-Face Guy|Crotch-Face Guy]], [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Mario (species)|Mario (species)]], and [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Beezos|Beezos]] from what I can see. I believe these four than easily fit on collection pages. | |||
Additionally, I feel like quite a few collection entries could stand as their own separate articles as well; [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Other#Happiness|while]] [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Other#Speed (episode)|there's]] [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Locations#All Worlds|plenty]] [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Characters#Wizpig|of]] [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/DK_Wiki#Donkey Kong 64|candidates]], the only one I ''really'' want to bring up in this proposal is the entry about the ''[[Luigi's Mansion]]'' game, because it's [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Luigi's Mansion#Luigi's Mansion|almost as big as the Princess Peach's Voice "article"]] despite being merged with a collection. I think this one could be split into it's own complete article as well, but I will leave an option to just merge the 4 small "articles" with collections if people disagree. | |||
So to recap, I have 4 options on what to do: | |||
#'''Just merge the 4 entries with collections.''' If it's too confusing to have Luigi's Mansion collection & a Luigi's Mansion BJAODN article, we can just merge the 4 "articles" I mentioned before. | |||
#'''Merge the 4 entries with collections AND split the Luigi's Mansion game entry into its own complete "article".''' My perferred choice, to merge the 4 "articles" I mentioned with collections & make the Luigi's Mansion game entry into its own complete "article" (maybe with an identifier to avoid confusion). | |||
#'''Just split the Luigi's Mansion game entry into its own complete "article".''' For whatever reason, if we decide the 4 ridiculously small "articles" are big enough to be separate, but also want to split the Luigi's Mansion (game) entry. | |||
#'''Do nothing.''' I could be taking BJAODN organizing too seriously, or someone may disagree with the points I made on both sides. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Somethingone}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': April 1, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Option 1==== | |||
#{{User|Somethingone}} Second choice. If the Luigi's Mansion (game) entry is to contentious for a separate "article", the 4 short articles I mentioned should at least to be merged. | |||
====Option 2==== | |||
#{{User|Somethingone}} Perferred choice. | |||
#{{User|WildWario}} Luigi's Mansion definitely feels big enough, so per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|ShootingStar7X}} As someone who also takes BJAODN organization seriously, per all. | |||
#{{User|RHG1951}} Per all. | |||
====Option 3==== | |||
====Option 4==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
===Establish proper size of the Media section for game articles with a dedicated media list=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|passed|0-0-6-0-0|4-5 audio files}} | |||
Most Media sections of game articles link to a separate list of media (mostly music). It has been the standard for Media sections to have a small sample of files to give an approximate preview of the full list, but the wiki is inconsistent in how many are chosen. At the time of writing, the Media section for ''[[Super Mario 64#Media|Super Mario 64]]'' has five audio files (plus a video), yet ''[[Mario Kart Wii#Media|Mario Kart Wii]]'' and ''[[Mario Kart 7#Media|Mario Kart 7]]'' show only one file each. ''[[Mario Party 8#Media|Mario Party 8]]'' has seven! | |||
This proposal should settle on how many audio files should be chosen for Media sections. This would be more of a strong recommendation than a hard rule, but consistency is the goal here. | |||
Video files are uncommon, but they should still be kept to one per Media section where applicable (see ''[[Super Mario Sunshine#Media|Super Mario Sunshine]]''). | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|DannyTheDingo}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': April 5, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====1 audio file==== | |||
====2-3 audio files==== | |||
====4-5 audio files==== | |||
#{{User|DannyTheDingo}} My preferred option. Leaves room for more diverse choices. | |||
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per proposal. This gives us plenty of diversity options while not over-crowding pages with media. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} 4-5 audio files is a good sweet spot for this. | |||
#{{User|WildWario}} Per all. | |||
====6+ audio files==== | |||
====No set amount==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
I have also come across a few Media sections that merely display the beginning few files from the media list. (Until I recently changed it, the Media section for ''[[Mario Super Sluggers#Media|Mario Super Sluggers]]'' showed the first four in the list. This was a problem because it was largely unrepresentative; the first two were an unused theme and a repetitive 20-second loop heard once in the entire game.) I almost made a proposal about prohibiting this kind of thing, but it seems too uncommon to be worth doing that. {{User:DannyTheDingo/sig}} 05:20, March 29, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:There technically [[MarioWiki:Empty sections|is a rule]] against that sort of thing (the policy doesn't mention media but it can be reasonably assumed to extend to that), so we should probably just add a mention of media sections there. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:31, March 29, 2022 (EDT) | |||
::I feel that it would definitely make sense to add a mention of media sections onto that policy page. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 10:46, March 29, 2022 (EDT) | |||
===Allow/prohibit fan work by former Nintendo staff=== | |||
{{Proposal outcome|passed|6-4-0|allow all such works}} | |||
After their contractual obligations for Nintendo have ended, certain affiliates such as [[Steve Mayles]] and [[Masanori Sato]] have continued to celebrate the franchises they helped shape through various pieces of artwork. These works, consequently, are not direct promotional material nor are they endorsed or acknowledged by Nintendo, pertaining potentially to the realm of fan art more than what this wiki outlines as official material. Nevertheless, the notability that tailgates these people was reason enough for me to have already uploaded a number of their post-contractual works on the wiki. | |||
The proposal's aim is to sort out whether this practice should be further allowed--and on what conditions. | |||
In hashing over the proposal's options, I will divide these "fan" works by two paradigms, so to speak: those that portray at least one specific character from the ''Mario'' franchise (which can be modified but otherwise still recognizable), and those that are parodies or feature vaguely-represented elements pertaining to the franchise, but do not otherwise portray any officially recognised character. Examples from the former include [https://twitter.com/PlaytonicGames/status/1308781988053164032?s=20 an illustration of Dixie Kong by Steve Mayles] <small>(twitter.com)</small>, [https://www.instagram.com/p/CVPpho6B3Ma/ a sketch of Yoshi by Masanori Sato] <small>(instagram.com)</small>, and a [https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ4W9Eyv0yj/ Bob-omb King-like creature accompanied by an actual Bob-omb] <small>(instagram.com)</small>, also by Sato; examples of the latter include [https://www.instagram.com/p/CVp-W_lDdQh/ an illustration of two Mario&Luigi-like characters] <small>(instagram.com)</small>, [https://www.instagram.com/p/CXfOu6soxq1/ another of a turtle-esque fairy] <small>(instagram.com)</small> resembling [[Boom Boom]] or [[Pom Pom]], and [https://www.instagram.com/p/CbC9gUiroSQ/ yet another of a distinctly Wario-looking fellow] <small>(instagram.com)</small>. | |||
In this respect, I propose three directions: | |||
#Allow any and all such works; | |||
#Allow only works that portray at least one recognised ''Mario'' element, but not those that are derivative of the ''Mario'' franchise; could likely help the wiki avoid legal stuff; | |||
#Prohibit all such works and delete existing uploads. If Nintendo didn't recognise them, they don't belong here. | |||
I should note that the proposal excludes work that has had a function in the promotion or development of a certain media product or the franchise in general, such as Miyamoto's [[:File:Edge cover - Mario and Luigi (Miyamoto drawing).jpg|drawn cover for the ''Edge'' magazine]], or the ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' [[:File:CAPCOM SmashArt.jpg|Mario-Rathalos artwork]]. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Koopa con Carne}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': April 6, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Option 1: Allow all==== | |||
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} My choice. | |||
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Makes sense to me | |||
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Results May Vary}} Very interesting proposal that raises some good points. I'd say that because the staff are still recognized for when they were involved with the ''Mario'' franchise, their artworks should be allowed, especially because a lot of stems from when they were involved & many of the subscribers and viewers would perceive it this way as well. | |||
====Option 2: Allow only on-brand depictions==== | |||
#{{User|RHG1951}} While I do love Sato's Mickey & Goofy artwork, I don't think it or any image that only belongs in the artists' gallery section should be uploaded here. | |||
#{{User|Somethingone}} This is a cool idea, but let's at least try to keep it relevant to the namesake of this fan wiki, mkay? | |||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} I think having a bit of a limit on what kind of art can be uploaded is best. Do we know how much art they shared that isn't Mario? Can we expect that number to grow in the future? | |||
====Option 3: Don't allow any, delete existing uploads relating to this category==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
At any rate, what do the users in here think of Sato's [https://www.instagram.com/p/CRyHoYSBHf0/?utm_medium=copy_link ''Mario & Luigi''-esque portrayal of Mickey and Goofy]? Is it worth [[:File:Instagram Masanori Sato Mickey and Goofy Mario Luigi style.jpg|keeping it]] on the wiki for the stylistic and dynamic similarities alone? {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:44, March 30, 2022 (EDT) | |||
@RHG1951 @Somethingone I pointed out the Mickey and Goofy image as an individual case, because I thought some users may find its connection to Mario way too tenuous, and probably only coincidental given the fact that an artist can practice their style without this necessarily connecting their works. The artwork deprecated by the second option still relates to Mario in more than just style; do keep this in mind. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:01, March 30, 2022 (EDT) |
Latest revision as of 16:32, May 31, 2024
Use a unique archive color for proposals that fail to reach a consensuspassed 12-0 As for what color should be used, my suggestion is white. It's a fitting color for stalemate proposals, and it isn't too close to an existing color (closest is gray, the color used for passed proposals awaiting implementation, but I think it's distinct enough). I'm open to other suggestions though. Proposer: 7feetunder (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsI noticed in the proposal archive that there is already a colour used for ties, brown, but it only seems to be used for a handful of old proposals, and it isn't on the TPP archive. Is this just because of changes in the proposal rules, and do you plan on replacing it with whatever colour you decide on here? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 02:48, May 25, 2021 (EDT)
Listing changes on articles for ports, remakes, and remastershybrid of prose and bullet points 0-8-1 Some examples of other articles with a similar section: Super Mario Advance, Super Mario Advance 3, Super Mario Advance 4, Super Mario 64 DS, and Super Mario 3D All-Stars split the changes into sections, but otherwise use only bullet points. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe instead uses short paragraphs of prose, with each paragraph focusing on a different small aspect of gameplay or design. Super Mario All-Stars and Super Mario Advance 2 blend some sections of prose with bullet lists in others. On the Discord server, Glowsquid recommended a different hybrid model: starting subsections with short prose paragraphs about general changes, and using bullet lists for the smaller details. The full post is in the Comments section below. I am in support of exclusively bullet points. I think in this specific context, where there can be very minuscule details that might get their own paragraph when using prose, it is more effective to use bullet points. There seems to be more of a standard set with them than with prose, and I think that's because it's more convenient to read the changes when in a bullet list, especially because you can create sub-bullets to highlight groups of changes. Proposer: 0blivion (talk) List changes entirely in proseList changes with a hybrid of prose and bullet points
List changes in entirely bullet pointsCommentsI'll post the discord comments I made when the topic was brought up (also the proposal main text made it sound like i recommended the bowser's fury page to be like SMA2's when what happened is that BLOF brought it and the Super Mario All-Stars as examples of how those sections should be written and I opined I don,t think they work very well, and then brought up my own idea on how those sections should be done)
So for the above-cited example of SMA2, instead of the current appealing wall of text the gameplay changes section is now, it would be more like: "Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2 gets rid of the 2-player mode and instead overhauls Luigi as a distinct player character with his own abilities. He can be played by pressing R on the world map.
[paragraph break] The 100% Completion events have been overhauled, featuring different requirements and new events for triggering Fall.
etc etc. Hopefully you get the gist. --Glowsquid (talk) 09:37, May 22, 2021 (EDT)
However, couldn't these short prose introductions also be fit into a bullet list? I mentioned sub-bullets because when the Bowser's Fury page had bullets, it did something similar to this hybrid model by using them. For example:
If those main bullets would work better as prose, then I could be OK with that as long as the minute changes are bullet points. 0blivion 11:39, May 22, 2021 (EDT) How to handle Super Mario Odyssey sub-locationsleave locations marked "keep" and "borderline" split, merge the rest 1-7-1 Super Mario Odyssey did something rather new for this franchise - it named every single Checkpoint Flag in the game. Somehow this convinced people that every single one should have its own article, and by now nearly all of them do, along with a few other landmarks. This is quite excessive. While some of them do deserve article because they're major structures or otherwise notable landmarks (we have articles on things like Shine Gate and Surf Cabana), many of them are just random, nondescript level sections that aren't notable in any way. The way we handle it now is basically like giving every planet in Super Mario Galaxy its own article. There was a proposal about this years ago which the proposer ended up canceling. The problem with this proposal was that it wasn't clear enough about exactly which locations should get articles and which shouldn't. After that, the issue went unaddressed for years. So I went over them and organized them into groups: what we should keep, what we might want to keep, and what we should definitely merge. KEEP: These are the areas that I think should stay. It includes three different kinds of areas.
BORDERLINE: Ones I'm not quite sure about. These locations are notable to varying degrees, and may or may not deserve articles in the long run. I'm leaning towards keeping them for now since the main point of this is to weed out the really bad ones. MERGE: Everything not listed above should be merged, but here are some specific examples:
Here is a list of sub-locations in the game (not all of which are checkpoints), and whether or not I think they're split-worthy. Note the scrolling bar on the right - I put that there to save space on the page, since this proposal is already long as it is. If that bothers you, you can look at my sandbox instead.
There are three options: keep the "keepers" only, include the "borderlines", or everything. Every kingdom article will have a "checkpoint locations" section added to it, sort of like how we handle planets from SMG, with most of the unnecessary articles' content being merged there. Note that this proposal is preliminary - if we keep the "borderline" articles, we can always weed out the ones we don't want with later proposals. Conversely, later proposals can call for the recreation of articles previously deemed unworthy. There is absolutely no perfect solution to this problem, since in several cases, what qualifies as "notable enough" to have a page is subjective. However, we need to draw a line, and I don't want to make 50 proposals just to merge SMO checkpoint flags. Proposer: 7feetunder (talk) Only split the locations marked "keep"
Split "borderline" locations as well
No checkpoint left behind
CommentsLet me know if I missed anything - there's a lot to cover here. 00:53, September 21, 2021 (EDT) @Hewer: Quite a few of them really don't make for decent articles. Most of the "island in the sky" articles are just "It's a platform in the sky. You get there through a painting in [other kingdom]. There's a Power Moon and a Checkpoint Flag. The end." While there's nothing inherently wrong with short articles, I think it's much more logical to just cover them on the kingdom articles like we do with SMG planets. A lot of these are really trivial, just being featureless platforms and random nondescript chunks of level no one would dream of splitting if SMO didn't name every checkpoint. Even then, a lot of the names are generic. Nintendo probably only named them all for player convenience; I seriously doubt they intended things like "Heliport" and "Top of the Big Stump" to be seen as very important locations. Not everything with a name deserves an article (e.g. the Banana Bird caves in DKC3). 18:28, September 21, 2021 (EDT) Categorizing minigamesUse both 1-0-4 Proposer: WildWario (talk) Use their in-game typesUse Bowser minigamesUse both
CommentsDefine the scope of "Other appearances" sectionsIntegrate only appearances from third-party media we don't cover 0-0-6-0 Degrees of a subject's appearance in a fictional work can be delineated as:
Coverage for the first one, again, is firmly set in stone and disregarded by the proposal. As it's been well-established, if a Goomba kills you in a game, we make a section for that game on Goomba's article. The second and third ones are relevant here, with the third one commanding perhaps the most attention. As it stands, third-party appearances can be further assigned two scenarios: one in which we give the relevant fictional work "guest"-type article coverage, and one in which we do not. The goal of this proposal is to draw a concrete line over which type of appearance warrants being put under an "Other appearances" section--or even to decide whether such section is necessary at all. If certain appearances are excluded from the scope of this section, they are given their own sections outside of it. NOTE: For now, the outcome of this proposal would not overturn the decision of this proposal. Unused appearances will continue to be covered under "Other appearances" in addition to the subjects that are to be decided upon here. Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk) Integrate in-franchise cameos and third-party mediaExample of in-franchise cameo: Bullet Bill block formation in Alleyway. (Relevant "Other appearances" section) Integrate only appearances from third-party media, whether said media is covered here on its own or notExample of appearance from a third-party media we give partial coverage to: Sledge Bro appearing as mobs in the Minecraft Super Mario Mash-Up Pack. (Relevant "Other appearances" section) Integrate only appearances from third-party media we don't coverExample of such appearance: Chain Chomp appearing as a weapon in Bayonetta 2. (Relevant "Other appearances" section)
It doesn't matter; no consistent pattern is to be establishedCommentsThere's two specific uses of other appearances section that doesn't seem like are covered here so I might as well bring them up. First, some other appearances sections have included merchandise (i.e. Mario Chess, Gamer Monopoly), and second, a proposal a while ago made it so that unused appearances of subjects are supposed to be covered in the other appearances section as well, though this has been poorly enforced since the proposal passed. How would those cases be handled under this proposal? (For my two cents regarding unused appearances at least, I wouldn't be opposed to adding dedicated subsections for those at the end of history sections.) -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 18:00, November 9, 2021 (EST)
There's one thing that this proposal does not address: mentions. That is, when a character does not appear in the game at all, but is referenced either directly (e.g. Princess Peach in Luigi's Mansion) or indirectly (e.g. Wingo in Super Mario Odyssey). Where do those fit in this equation? 19:30, November 9, 2021 (EST)
I removed the "Remove section altogether" because it conflicts with the decision of the proposal brought up by Waluigi Time (talk). -- KOOPA CON CARNE 19:54, November 9, 2021 (EST)
Decide if obscure media filenames from Nintendo's websites qualify as sources for subject namesDo not cite these filenames at all 2-5-12 I believe we should draw a hard line on whether we can acknowledge any and all of these website filenames, or none at all. I've listed several subjects concerned by this proposal:
From taking the liberty to refer to an established character as "Professor Edgar", to bum writing mishaps like "Rockey Road", I think it's clear now that these filenames are a horse of a different colour. This is why I am calling upon other editors to help assess their quality as sources. I myself am leaning towards using them, purely because they are official, but I sense others may have objections given the things I've stated above. Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk) Acknowledge these names/misspellings in articles and use them as redirects
Only use these names/misspellings as redirects
Do not cite these filenames at all
Comments@Scrooge200: Well, not many people are going to encounter these filenames, that's for sure, but I believe their sheer obscurity in and of itself shouldn't be used as a point against documenting them. "Ahuehuehuea" originated from a place of dubious status which we have discounted as a source, whereas the filenames at hand are unequivocally official. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 20:00, December 21, 2021 (EST)
Also, I thought it'd be worth bringing up "Morty Wrench", which has also been discussed here. Scrooge200 (talk) 23:42, December 21, 2021 (EST) I feel about these the same way I feel about citing closed captions on streaming services as sources for official names. The public-facing material on these websites may be official, but that shouldn't extend to arbitrary judgement calls and typos by the people putting those websites together. --Glowsquid (talk) 11:38, December 22, 2021 (EST) Make new templates for frequent remindersMake new templates 9-0 The reminders mainly revolve around basic mistakes we keep having to remind people about, such as first-person writing or italics. When giving such reminders, we usually just type out a message. Let's turn these messages into templates. The wording will be moved to a new template page as-is, unless something about the wording needs changed. Doesn't need the code box that's around it all, as that's only there to easily copy-paste the text and keep the coding intact. A template doesn't need to do that. The signature coding should be excluded as well. Three of these reminders are meant for staff-only business, since staff are the only ones that can check IPs. Templates added will be, in the order on the sandbox:
Should this pass, I will format the coding I have to be able to be actually used as a functioning template. Proposer: Alex95 (talk) Make new templates
Don't make new templatesCommentsWait, how would the "use specific ones" one work if it wins? Would we use the most-voted one? The top two? The top three? The top half? All the ones that make it above a certain score? All but the least voted? Would it go into a run-off vote? I'm kinda confused. Somethingone (talk) 14:10, December 22, 2021 (EST)
Both 10-0 This can be handled similarly to the Sonic wiki situation. Take the Sonic the Hedgehog article for example—there is an external link to both Sonic Retro and Sonic News Network, presumably because Sonic Retro is a lot more behind on coverage than Sonic News Network. Triforce Wiki doesn't even have 1,000 articles yet whereas Zelda Dungeon Wiki has over 10,000 articles. Similarly, on the Link article, what this would mean is that there would be an External links section listing the Zelda Dungeon Wiki article first and then the Triforce Wiki article below it. As many probably know, I am the founder of Triforce Wiki, although I handed it over to grifkuba for hosting (they host a couple of other NIWA wikis, so this gives it some credibility) & it is under new leadership. However, adding links to Triforce Wiki might come across to some as a conflict of interest, as a majority of its userbase is from the Super Mario Wiki itself. Because of this, the proposal will have an option to only allow a Zelda Dungeon Wiki link in the External links section of The Legend of Zelda-related articles. Proposer: Results May Vary (talk) Both
Zelda Dungeon Wiki onlyNeitherCommentsI have a concern regarding this proposal. I like the concept of linking to other Zelda wikis to give off choice, but what does Triforce Wiki and Zelda Dungeons Wiki have to offer to be used as external links? Are they vastly superior to link over Zelda Wiki? I feel like this might be a "conflict-of-interest" regardless of what it is said on the proposal. -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 19:29, December 30, 2021 (EST)
Create "Unused appearances" sections in historyCreate with headers 9-2-0 If the create with headers option is chosen, unused appearances sections will be divided by game and series, like normal history sections. If the create without headers option is chosen, there will be a single header where all information is kept. If do nothing is chosen, well, that's self-explanatory. Proposer: Waluigi Time (talk) Create with headers
Create without headers
Do nothingCommentsRename "List of clothing" articles for the Mario & Luigi series to "List of gear", and merge "List of badges" articles for Superstar Saga and Partners in Time with those respective articlesDo both 4-0-0 I will list the articles here for convenience: Proposer: Swallow (talk) Do both
Only rename articlesOnly merge badge lists with respective clothing articlesDo neitherCommentsReminder I did pass a proposal to split all the individual items in them, but haven't yet gotten around to it due to the massive undertaking it will be. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:15, January 7, 2022 (EST)
Shouldn't these article names be "List of (game title) gear" anyway, to be consistent with every other list articles (ie List of Mario Party 6 minigames, List of Paper Mario quotes, List of Super Mario Odyssey media)? Ray Trace(T|C) 17:01, January 10, 2022 (EST)
Split or Merge Mario Kart Tour's Pallet Swapscanceled by proposer
Proposer: Tails777 (talk) Split Mario Kart Tour Pallet Swap Characters
Merge Mario Kart Tour Pallet Swap Karts/Gliders
Do Nothing
Comments@Waluigi Time: The main reason I'm choosing to cover Tour only right now is because it's got a very simple, kinda enclosed solution. As I mentioned, diving into all sorts of pallet swaps deals with a lot more than just the Yoshis or Shy Guys; it could steer into RPG enemies as well, as they also feature pallet swaps and different stats. Trust me, I'd fully support splitting the Yoshis back into their separate articles because of their multiple appearances with differences (as you mentioned, Super Mario World). But because that topic covers so much, I thought it would be a hard and somewhat complicated place to start. So I thought of covering Tour only because the solutions are more simple to work with. Additionally, I do address the idea of costumed alternates, being something that could also qualify if people think they should. I would also support the idea, because like the colored pallet swaps, karts and gliders, they feature the same differences. Tails777 Talk to me!
What's your opinion on Goo-Goo Buggy/Rattle Buggy, Red Fire/Green Fire, Heart Coach/Bloom Coach, Piranha Pipes/Boo Pipes, Light Tripper/Light Dancer as well as the StandardXX articles (like Standard BW)? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:21, January 20, 2022 (EST)
I am willing to withdraw this proposal to talk about the topic more elsewhere. I completely understand where the opposing side is getting at: the idea of covering Tour only. Again, my reasoning was an attempt at starting simple, but it is very clear that it was not nearly as simple as anticipated. However, I still can't understand why we'll make articles for the Blue Biddybuggy, which is literally the blue color swap from Mario Kart 8, but not for something like Blue Yoshi. That's where my main concern comes from. In my overall opinion, I'd rather split articles like colored Yoshis and cover every instance where their colors differentiated from each other, such as in Super Mario World, the Mario Baseball series and such, and do so for other pallet swaps. I really do want to discuss this further to try to come to some sort of conclusion. Tails777 Talk to me! Merge Spiky John with Spiky Tom (or place both under Koopatrol)Do nothing 2-0-8 Proposer: Remembered Old Buddy (talk) Merge Spiky John with Spiky Tom
Merge them under KoopatrolDo not merge
CommentsHewer, we can merge the Goombas as well. Remembered Old Buddy Merging of Wrecking Crew and VS. Wrecking Crew phasesno quorum 2-0-0-0 Affected pages:
Proposer: Spectrogram (talk) Merge into "List of Wrecking Crew phases" and "List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases"
Only merge VS. Wrecking Crew phasesOnly merge Wrecking Crew phasesKeep separateCommentsMerging of Wrecking Crew and VS. Wrecking Crew phases (2)merge into two list articles 5-0-0-0 There are 100 different phases in Wrecking Crew and VS. Wrecking Crew that don't have much going for them. In Wrecking Crew, phases are constructed out of the same few tiles and enemies. Unlike other Mario games, I believe there isn't enough information in a single stage to justify creating a new article for each of them. You can see the phases on The Spriters Resource. VS. Wrecking Crew phases are even more simular, every phase looks just like the other. I propose to merge these phases into two article for each game: List of Wrecking Crew phases and List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases. Affected pages:
Proposer: Spectrogram (talk) Merge into "List of Wrecking Crew phases" and "List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases"
Only merge VS. Wrecking Crew phasesOnly merge Wrecking Crew phasesKeep separateCommentsCreate a stat table template for karts in Mario Kart DScreate 8-0 Firstly, the stat values listed are rounded to the nearest .5; this results in stats being slightly inaccurate to how they are displayed on the kart select screen in the game. The most egregious example of this, in my opinion, is the Standard DB: Despite it having acceleration and handling stats just short of the maximum value (by one pixel, in the case of the former), both stats are listed on its page as a perfect 10/10. Futhermore, Mario Kart DS determines weight based on the kart and the driver, but the weight stats listed on the kart pages are for the karts being used with their default drivers. This results in all of the Standard karts having different weight stats when they should all have the same weight, for example. Therefore, I propose the creation of a Mario Kart DS stat table template that can use the stats listed here, in the style of the one we have for Mario Kart Wii. Proposer: ShootingStar7X (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsNow that that's out of the way, should the weight bonus of the kart's default driver be listed on the template or not? ShootingStar7X (talk) 14:41, February 24, 2022 (EST)
@Mister Wu — That's a good idea, but how should we implement them into the stat tables: In parentheses after the in-game stat numbers, in a {{hover}} tooltip on the stat numbers, in another table altogether, or something else entirely? ShootingStar7X (talk) 21:21, February 24, 2022 (EST)
Do not consider usage of classic recurring themes as references to the game of originpassed 9-0 Proposer: Swallow (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsDecide how to cover the Sonic the Hedgehog animal friendsCreate a collective article 0-9-0
I think there are three ways to go about it:
At this moment in time, I wouldn't entirely be sure what to call a collective page, as in crossover appearances they've never had a consistent name (To my knowledge, Fauna of Windy Hill Zone, Animals of Windy Hill Zone, Audience, Sonic's animal pals and simply animals have been used across various games), and I don't know if there's anything more concrete in Sonic games, so please let me know if you can think of a suitable name for the page. Proposer: BBQ Turtle (talk) Individual articlesCollective article
Stick to external linksCommentsWasn't it "Cookie" according to the Twitter-card things? Granted they did mix up the animals' names... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:02, March 13, 2022 (EDT) @BBQTurtle "Small animals" was used for the Adventure games, but those were the "downsized realistic animals" rather than the toony named ones. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:12, March 14, 2022 (EDT) Merge some complete BJAODN "articles" with collectionsOption 2 1-4-0-0 So, I was looking over the BJAODN these past 2 weeks for something, and I feel like quite a few of the complete "articles" are normal-entry-level size, and don't really need a separate page. Most notably, the Make A Website "article". It's literally shorter than about 2/5ths of the collection entries we have, and that's including the one comment on the bottom. And there's a few more complete "articles" like this as well; Crotch-Face Guy, Mario (species), and Beezos from what I can see. I believe these four than easily fit on collection pages. Additionally, I feel like quite a few collection entries could stand as their own separate articles as well; while there's plenty of candidates, the only one I really want to bring up in this proposal is the entry about the Luigi's Mansion game, because it's almost as big as the Princess Peach's Voice "article" despite being merged with a collection. I think this one could be split into it's own complete article as well, but I will leave an option to just merge the 4 small "articles" with collections if people disagree. So to recap, I have 4 options on what to do:
Proposer: Somethingone (talk) Option 1
Option 2
Option 3Option 4CommentsEstablish proper size of the Media section for game articles with a dedicated media list4-5 audio files 0-0-6-0-0 Most Media sections of game articles link to a separate list of media (mostly music). It has been the standard for Media sections to have a small sample of files to give an approximate preview of the full list, but the wiki is inconsistent in how many are chosen. At the time of writing, the Media section for Super Mario 64 has five audio files (plus a video), yet Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart 7 show only one file each. Mario Party 8 has seven! This proposal should settle on how many audio files should be chosen for Media sections. This would be more of a strong recommendation than a hard rule, but consistency is the goal here. Video files are uncommon, but they should still be kept to one per Media section where applicable (see Super Mario Sunshine). Proposer: DannyTheDingo (talk) 1 audio file2-3 audio files4-5 audio files
6+ audio filesNo set amountCommentsI have also come across a few Media sections that merely display the beginning few files from the media list. (Until I recently changed it, the Media section for Mario Super Sluggers showed the first four in the list. This was a problem because it was largely unrepresentative; the first two were an unused theme and a repetitive 20-second loop heard once in the entire game.) I almost made a proposal about prohibiting this kind of thing, but it seems too uncommon to be worth doing that. DingoHazel [00515] 05:20, March 29, 2022 (EDT)
Allow/prohibit fan work by former Nintendo staffallow all such works 6-4-0 The proposal's aim is to sort out whether this practice should be further allowed--and on what conditions. In hashing over the proposal's options, I will divide these "fan" works by two paradigms, so to speak: those that portray at least one specific character from the Mario franchise (which can be modified but otherwise still recognizable), and those that are parodies or feature vaguely-represented elements pertaining to the franchise, but do not otherwise portray any officially recognised character. Examples from the former include an illustration of Dixie Kong by Steve Mayles (twitter.com), a sketch of Yoshi by Masanori Sato (instagram.com), and a Bob-omb King-like creature accompanied by an actual Bob-omb (instagram.com), also by Sato; examples of the latter include an illustration of two Mario&Luigi-like characters (instagram.com), another of a turtle-esque fairy (instagram.com) resembling Boom Boom or Pom Pom, and yet another of a distinctly Wario-looking fellow (instagram.com). In this respect, I propose three directions:
I should note that the proposal excludes work that has had a function in the promotion or development of a certain media product or the franchise in general, such as Miyamoto's drawn cover for the Edge magazine, or the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mario-Rathalos artwork. Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk) Option 1: Allow all
Option 2: Allow only on-brand depictions
Option 3: Don't allow any, delete existing uploads relating to this categoryCommentsAt any rate, what do the users in here think of Sato's Mario & Luigi-esque portrayal of Mickey and Goofy? Is it worth keeping it on the wiki for the stylistic and dynamic similarities alone? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:44, March 30, 2022 (EDT) @RHG1951 @Somethingone I pointed out the Mickey and Goofy image as an individual case, because I thought some users may find its connection to Mario way too tenuous, and probably only coincidental given the fact that an artist can practice their style without this necessarily connecting their works. The artwork deprecated by the second option still relates to Mario in more than just style; do keep this in mind. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 20:01, March 30, 2022 (EDT) |