MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/57: Difference between revisions
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===Merge some complete BJAODN "articles" with collections=== | ===Merge some complete BJAODN "articles" with collections=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|1-4-0-0|Option 2}} | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|1-4-0-0|Option 2}} | ||
I brought this up on a talk page before, but I feel like I should do a proposal before messing around with anything. | I brought this up on a talk page before, but I feel like I should do a proposal before messing around with anything. | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
===Establish proper size of the Media section for game articles with a dedicated media list=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|0-0-6-0-0|4-5 audio files}} | |||
Most Media sections of game articles link to a separate list of media (mostly music). It has been the standard for Media sections to have a small sample of files to give an approximate preview of the full list, but the wiki is inconsistent in how many are chosen. At the time of writing, the Media section for ''[[Super Mario 64#Media|Super Mario 64]]'' has five audio files (plus a video), yet ''[[Mario Kart Wii#Media|Mario Kart Wii]]'' and ''[[Mario Kart 7#Media|Mario Kart 7]]'' show only one file each. ''[[Mario Party 8#Media|Mario Party 8]]'' has seven! | |||
This proposal should settle on how many audio files should be chosen for Media sections. This would be more of a strong recommendation than a hard rule, but consistency is the goal here. | |||
Video files are uncommon, but they should still be kept to one per Media section where applicable (see ''[[Super Mario Sunshine#Media|Super Mario Sunshine]]''). | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|DannyTheDingo}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': April 5, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====1 audio file==== | |||
====2-3 audio files==== | |||
====4-5 audio files==== | |||
#{{User|DannyTheDingo}} My preferred option. Leaves room for more diverse choices. | |||
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per proposal. This gives us plenty of diversity options while not over-crowding pages with media. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} 4-5 audio files is a good sweet spot for this. | |||
#{{User|WildWario}} Per all. | |||
====6+ audio files==== | |||
====No set amount==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
I have also come across a few Media sections that merely display the beginning few files from the media list. (Until I recently changed it, the Media section for ''[[Mario Super Sluggers#Media|Mario Super Sluggers]]'' showed the first four in the list. This was a problem because it was largely unrepresentative; the first two were an unused theme and a repetitive 20-second loop heard once in the entire game.) I almost made a proposal about prohibiting this kind of thing, but it seems too uncommon to be worth doing that. {{User:DannyTheDingo/sig}} 05:20, March 29, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:There technically [[MarioWiki:Empty sections|is a rule]] against that sort of thing (the policy doesn't mention media but it can be reasonably assumed to extend to that), so we should probably just add a mention of media sections there. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:31, March 29, 2022 (EDT) | |||
::I feel that it would definitely make sense to add a mention of media sections onto that policy page. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 10:46, March 29, 2022 (EDT) | |||
===Allow/prohibit fan work by former Nintendo staff=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|6-4-0|allow all such works}} | |||
After their contractual obligations for Nintendo have ended, certain affiliates such as [[Steve Mayles]] and [[Masanori Sato]] have continued to celebrate the franchises they helped shape through various pieces of artwork. These works, consequently, are not direct promotional material nor are they endorsed or acknowledged by Nintendo, pertaining potentially to the realm of fan art more than what this wiki outlines as official material. Nevertheless, the notability that tailgates these people was reason enough for me to have already uploaded a number of their post-contractual works on the wiki. | |||
The proposal's aim is to sort out whether this practice should be further allowed--and on what conditions. | |||
In hashing over the proposal's options, I will divide these "fan" works by two paradigms, so to speak: those that portray at least one specific character from the ''Mario'' franchise (which can be modified but otherwise still recognizable), and those that are parodies or feature vaguely-represented elements pertaining to the franchise, but do not otherwise portray any officially recognised character. Examples from the former include [https://twitter.com/PlaytonicGames/status/1308781988053164032?s=20 an illustration of Dixie Kong by Steve Mayles] <small>(twitter.com)</small>, [https://www.instagram.com/p/CVPpho6B3Ma/ a sketch of Yoshi by Masanori Sato] <small>(instagram.com)</small>, and a [https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ4W9Eyv0yj/ Bob-omb King-like creature accompanied by an actual Bob-omb] <small>(instagram.com)</small>, also by Sato; examples of the latter include [https://www.instagram.com/p/CVp-W_lDdQh/ an illustration of two Mario&Luigi-like characters] <small>(instagram.com)</small>, [https://www.instagram.com/p/CXfOu6soxq1/ another of a turtle-esque fairy] <small>(instagram.com)</small> resembling [[Boom Boom]] or [[Pom Pom]], and [https://www.instagram.com/p/CbC9gUiroSQ/ yet another of a distinctly Wario-looking fellow] <small>(instagram.com)</small>. | |||
In this respect, I propose three directions: | |||
#Allow any and all such works; | |||
#Allow only works that portray at least one recognised ''Mario'' element, but not those that are derivative of the ''Mario'' franchise; could likely help the wiki avoid legal stuff; | |||
#Prohibit all such works and delete existing uploads. If Nintendo didn't recognise them, they don't belong here. | |||
I should note that the proposal excludes work that has had a function in the promotion or development of a certain media product or the franchise in general, such as Miyamoto's [[:File:Edge cover - Mario and Luigi (Miyamoto drawing).jpg|drawn cover for the ''Edge'' magazine]], or the ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' [[:File:CAPCOM SmashArt.jpg|Mario-Rathalos artwork]]. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Koopa con Carne}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': April 6, 2022, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Option 1: Allow all==== | |||
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} My choice. | |||
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Makes sense to me | |||
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Results May Vary}} Very interesting proposal that raises some good points. I'd say that because the staff are still recognized for when they were involved with the ''Mario'' franchise, their artworks should be allowed, especially because a lot of stems from when they were involved & many of the subscribers and viewers would perceive it this way as well. | |||
====Option 2: Allow only on-brand depictions==== | |||
#{{User|RHG1951}} While I do love Sato's Mickey & Goofy artwork, I don't think it or any image that only belongs in the artists' gallery section should be uploaded here. | |||
#{{User|Somethingone}} This is a cool idea, but let's at least try to keep it relevant to the namesake of this fan wiki, mkay? | |||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} I think having a bit of a limit on what kind of art can be uploaded is best. Do we know how much art they shared that isn't Mario? Can we expect that number to grow in the future? | |||
====Option 3: Don't allow any, delete existing uploads relating to this category==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
At any rate, what do the users in here think of Sato's [https://www.instagram.com/p/CRyHoYSBHf0/?utm_medium=copy_link ''Mario & Luigi''-esque portrayal of Mickey and Goofy]? Is it worth [[:File:Instagram Masanori Sato Mickey and Goofy Mario Luigi style.jpg|keeping it]] on the wiki for the stylistic and dynamic similarities alone? {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:44, March 30, 2022 (EDT) | |||
@RHG1951 @Somethingone I pointed out the Mickey and Goofy image as an individual case, because I thought some users may find its connection to Mario way too tenuous, and probably only coincidental given the fact that an artist can practice their style without this necessarily connecting their works. The artwork deprecated by the second option still relates to Mario in more than just style; do keep this in mind. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:01, March 30, 2022 (EDT) |
Revision as of 07:21, April 8, 2022
Use a unique archive color for proposals that fail to reach a consensusTemplate:ProposalOutcome This is something that's been bugging me for a while now. Currently, we don't have a unique color for proposals that fail to reach a consensus (i.e. proposals that get extended three times and end without any option properly "winning"). Currently we just mark them red, the same color used for proposals that straight up fail. This isn't totally illogical, since the result of both outcomes is similar (the proposed changes are not implemented and there's a minimum 4 week wait to propose again). However, I still feel that this needlessly obfuscates the archive, making it impossible to tell which proposals failed by consensus and which ones stalemated without clicking on each and every proposal link in the archive marked red, especially since there is no text in the archive that clarifies this. As a result of this, people browsing through the archive are forced to do extra work just to determine which ones are which for no good reason. Stalemates are common enough that it would be useful to be able to tell them apart easily. As for what color should be used, my suggestion is white. It's a fitting color for stalemate proposals, and it isn't too close to an existing color (closest is gray, the color used for passed proposals awaiting implementation, but I think it's distinct enough). I'm open to other suggestions though. Proposer: 7feetunder (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsI noticed in the proposal archive that there is already a colour used for ties, brown, but it only seems to be used for a handful of old proposals, and it isn't on the TPP archive. Is this just because of changes in the proposal rules, and do you plan on replacing it with whatever colour you decide on here? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 02:48, May 25, 2021 (EDT)
Listing changes on articles for ports, remakes, and remastersTemplate:ProposalOutcome Recently, the Changes section of Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury has been discussed while the article is being nominated for Featured status. The biggest issue right now seems to be whether to write the list of changes to 3D World as prose or a bullet-pointed list. Some examples of other articles with a similar section: Super Mario Advance, Super Mario Advance 3, Super Mario Advance 4, Super Mario 64 DS, and Super Mario 3D All-Stars split the changes into sections, but otherwise use only bullet points. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe instead uses short paragraphs of prose, with each paragraph focusing on a different small aspect of gameplay or design. Super Mario All-Stars and Super Mario Advance 2 blend some sections of prose with bullet lists in others. On the Discord server, Glowsquid recommended a different hybrid model: starting subsections with short prose paragraphs about general changes, and using bullet lists for the smaller details. The full post is in the Comments section below. I am in support of exclusively bullet points. I think in this specific context, where there can be very minuscule details that might get their own paragraph when using prose, it is more effective to use bullet points. There seems to be more of a standard set with them than with prose, and I think that's because it's more convenient to read the changes when in a bullet list, especially because you can create sub-bullets to highlight groups of changes. Proposer: 0blivion (talk) List changes entirely in proseList changes with a hybrid of prose and bullet points
List changes in entirely bullet pointsCommentsI'll post the discord comments I made when the topic was brought up (also the proposal main text made it sound like i recommended the bowser's fury page to be like SMA2's when what happened is that BLOF brought it and the Super Mario All-Stars as examples of how those sections should be written and I opined I don,t think they work very well, and then brought up my own idea on how those sections should be done)
So for the above-cited example of SMA2, instead of the current appealing wall of text the gameplay changes section is now, it would be more like: "Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2 gets rid of the 2-player mode and instead overhauls Luigi as a distinct player character with his own abilities. He can be played by pressing R on the world map.
[paragraph break] The 100% Completion events have been overhauled, featuring different requirements and new events for triggering Fall.
etc etc. Hopefully you get the gist. --Glowsquid (talk) 09:37, May 22, 2021 (EDT)
However, couldn't these short prose introductions also be fit into a bullet list? I mentioned sub-bullets because when the Bowser's Fury page had bullets, it did something similar to this hybrid model by using them. For example:
If those main bullets would work better as prose, then I could be OK with that as long as the minute changes are bullet points. 0blivion 11:39, May 22, 2021 (EDT) How to handle Super Mario Odyssey sub-locationsTemplate:ProposalOutcome Here we go. After years of development hell, it's finally time to do this. Super Mario Odyssey did something rather new for this franchise - it named every single Checkpoint Flag in the game. Somehow this convinced people that every single one should have its own article, and by now nearly all of them do, along with a few other landmarks. This is quite excessive. While some of them do deserve article because they're major structures or otherwise notable landmarks (we have articles on things like Shine Gate and Surf Cabana), many of them are just random, nondescript level sections that aren't notable in any way. The way we handle it now is basically like giving every planet in Super Mario Galaxy its own article. There was a proposal about this years ago which the proposer ended up canceling. The problem with this proposal was that it wasn't clear enough about exactly which locations should get articles and which shouldn't. After that, the issue went unaddressed for years. So I went over them and organized them into groups: what we should keep, what we might want to keep, and what we should definitely merge. KEEP: These are the areas that I think should stay. It includes three different kinds of areas.
BORDERLINE: Ones I'm not quite sure about. These locations are notable to varying degrees, and may or may not deserve articles in the long run. I'm leaning towards keeping them for now since the main point of this is to weed out the really bad ones. MERGE: Everything not listed above should be merged, but here are some specific examples:
Here is a list of sub-locations in the game (not all of which are checkpoints), and whether or not I think they're split-worthy. Note the scrolling bar on the right - I put that there to save space on the page, since this proposal is already long as it is. If that bothers you, you can look at my sandbox instead.
There are three options: keep the "keepers" only, include the "borderlines", or everything. Every kingdom article will have a "checkpoint locations" section added to it, sort of like how we handle planets from SMG, with most of the unnecessary articles' content being merged there. Note that this proposal is preliminary - if we keep the "borderline" articles, we can always weed out the ones we don't want with later proposals. Conversely, later proposals can call for the recreation of articles previously deemed unworthy. There is absolutely no perfect solution to this problem, since in several cases, what qualifies as "notable enough" to have a page is subjective. However, we need to draw a line, and I don't want to make 50 proposals just to merge SMO checkpoint flags. Proposer: 7feetunder (talk) Only split the locations marked "keep"
Split "borderline" locations as well
No checkpoint left behind
CommentsLet me know if I missed anything - there's a lot to cover here. 00:53, September 21, 2021 (EDT) @Hewer: Quite a few of them really don't make for decent articles. Most of the "island in the sky" articles are just "It's a platform in the sky. You get there through a painting in [other kingdom]. There's a Power Moon and a Checkpoint Flag. The end." While there's nothing inherently wrong with short articles, I think it's much more logical to just cover them on the kingdom articles like we do with SMG planets. A lot of these are really trivial, just being featureless platforms and random nondescript chunks of level no one would dream of splitting if SMO didn't name every checkpoint. Even then, a lot of the names are generic. Nintendo probably only named them all for player convenience; I seriously doubt they intended things like "Heliport" and "Top of the Big Stump" to be seen as very important locations. Not everything with a name deserves an article (e.g. the Banana Bird caves in DKC3). 18:28, September 21, 2021 (EDT) Categorizing minigamesTemplate:ProposalOutcome In Mario Party Superstars, there are several "Bowser Minigames". These minigames aren't categorized as Bowser minigames in-game, but these minigames can be played when landing on a Bowser Space and by getting the Bowser Minigame option. Current examples include Face Lift, Dark 'n Crispy, and Pit Boss. So, should they be their in-game minigame types, Bowser minigames, or should they be both? Proposer: WildWario (talk) Use their in-game typesUse Bowser minigamesUse both
CommentsDefine the scope of "Other appearances" sectionsTemplate:ProposalOutcome It's basically a done deal that the Mario Wiki organises most appearances of its wealth of subjects by relevant fictional works. However, some appearances, whether they are in-franchise cameos or third-party licensed appearances, are pigeonholed into an "Other appearances" section, and this is a fairly inconsistent approach that is to be discussed in general terms before any particular cases are decided upon as an "other appearance", so to speak. Degrees of a subject's appearance in a fictional work can be delineated as:
Coverage for the first one, again, is firmly set in stone and disregarded by the proposal. As it's been well-established, if a Goomba kills you in a game, we make a section for that game on Goomba's article. The second and third ones are relevant here, with the third one commanding perhaps the most attention. As it stands, third-party appearances can be further assigned two scenarios: one in which we give the relevant fictional work "guest"-type article coverage, and one in which we do not. The goal of this proposal is to draw a concrete line over which type of appearance warrants being put under an "Other appearances" section--or even to decide whether such section is necessary at all. If certain appearances are excluded from the scope of this section, they are given their own sections outside of it. NOTE: For now, the outcome of this proposal would not overturn the decision of this proposal. Unused appearances will continue to be covered under "Other appearances" in addition to the subjects that are to be decided upon here. Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk) Integrate in-franchise cameos and third-party mediaExample of in-franchise cameo: Bullet Bill block formation in Alleyway. (Relevant "Other appearances" section) Integrate only appearances from third-party media, whether said media is covered here on its own or notExample of appearance from a third-party media we give partial coverage to: Sledge Bro appearing as mobs in the Minecraft Super Mario Mash-Up Pack. (Relevant "Other appearances" section) Integrate only appearances from third-party media we don't coverExample of such appearance: Chain Chomp appearing as a weapon in Bayonetta 2. (Relevant "Other appearances" section)
It doesn't matter; no consistent pattern is to be establishedCommentsThere's two specific uses of other appearances section that doesn't seem like are covered here so I might as well bring them up. First, some other appearances sections have included merchandise (i.e. Mario Chess, Gamer Monopoly), and second, a proposal a while ago made it so that unused appearances of subjects are supposed to be covered in the other appearances section as well, though this has been poorly enforced since the proposal passed. How would those cases be handled under this proposal? (For my two cents regarding unused appearances at least, I wouldn't be opposed to adding dedicated subsections for those at the end of history sections.) -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 18:00, November 9, 2021 (EST)
There's one thing that this proposal does not address: mentions. That is, when a character does not appear in the game at all, but is referenced either directly (e.g. Princess Peach in Luigi's Mansion) or indirectly (e.g. Wingo in Super Mario Odyssey). Where do those fit in this equation? 19:30, November 9, 2021 (EST)
I removed the "Remove section altogether" because it conflicts with the decision of the proposal brought up by Waluigi Time (talk). -- KOOPA CON CARNE 19:54, November 9, 2021 (EST)
Decide if obscure media filenames from Nintendo's websites qualify as sources for subject namesTemplate:ProposalOutcome In my efforts to cover Nintendo's diverse promotional online material on the wiki, I've come across a number of images whose filenames provide unique spellings of a subject's name, or even new names altogether. I am aware this wiki, by and large, has allowed the citing of internal filenames as sources for the names of certain subjects, such as Uckykong and the Super Mario Galaxy planets, but I find the aforementioned website filenames to be of a different nature: in-game filenames originate from a game's developers, who have arguably much higher authority over how a subject is called than the person who mistypes the filenames in a press kit, officially endued as they may be. Furthermore, these website filenames can be rather poorly formatted. Take this image from Play Nintendo, for example; the subject it depicts, the Ice Hockey minigame from Mario Party Superstars, is mispelled as "Ive Hockey" in the picture's filename. An official mispelling for sure, but a mispelling nevertheless, and I have my doubts on how well it would reflect on the wiki to acknowledge Ive Hockey as an alternate name for that minigame on its article, given the "source". I believe we should draw a hard line on whether we can acknowledge any and all of these website filenames, or none at all. I've listed several subjects concerned by this proposal:
From taking the liberty to refer to an established character as "Professor Edgar", to bum writing mishaps like "Rockey Road", I think it's clear now that these filenames are a horse of a different colour. This is why I am calling upon other editors to help assess their quality as sources. I myself am leaning towards using them, purely because they are official, but I sense others may have objections given the things I've stated above. Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk) Acknowledge these names/misspellings in articles and use them as redirects
Only use these names/misspellings as redirects
Do not cite these filenames at all
Comments@Scrooge200: Well, not many people are going to encounter these filenames, that's for sure, but I believe their sheer obscurity in and of itself shouldn't be used as a point against documenting them. "Ahuehuehuea" originated from a place of dubious status which we have discounted as a source, whereas the filenames at hand are unequivocally official. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 20:00, December 21, 2021 (EST)
Also, I thought it'd be worth bringing up "Morty Wrench", which has also been discussed here. Scrooge200 (talk) 23:42, December 21, 2021 (EST) I feel about these the same way I feel about citing closed captions on streaming services as sources for official names. The public-facing material on these websites may be official, but that shouldn't extend to arbitrary judgement calls and typos by the people putting those websites together. --Glowsquid (talk) 11:38, December 22, 2021 (EST) Make new templates for frequent remindersTemplate:ProposalOutcome Apparently, some have been using the copy-paste reminders/warnings I have on my sandbox since I first started writing them down in April 2019. I wrote them down for a quick thing to pull from, but they're being used frequently enough that, hey, maybe I should put them somewhere useful. The reminders mainly revolve around basic mistakes we keep having to remind people about, such as first-person writing or italics. When giving such reminders, we usually just type out a message. Let's turn these messages into templates. The wording will be moved to a new template page as-is, unless something about the wording needs changed. Doesn't need the code box that's around it all, as that's only there to easily copy-paste the text and keep the coding intact. A template doesn't need to do that. The signature coding should be excluded as well. Three of these reminders are meant for staff-only business, since staff are the only ones that can check IPs. Templates added will be, in the order on the sandbox:
Should this pass, I will format the coding I have to be able to be actually used as a functioning template. Proposer: Alex95 (talk) Make new templates
Don't make new templatesCommentsWait, how would the "use specific ones" one work if it wins? Would we use the most-voted one? The top two? The top three? The top half? All the ones that make it above a certain score? All but the least voted? Would it go into a run-off vote? I'm kinda confused. Somethingone (talk) 14:10, December 22, 2021 (EST)
Template:ProposalOutcome Before you comment, I want you all to know that this is not an attack on Zelda Wiki. I merely made this proposal to reflect the fact that there are two other independently hosted The Legend of Zelda wikis, Zelda Dungeon Wiki and Triforce Wiki, both with their own community, with the former having a larger one. This proposal is NOT asking to change interwiki links to other The Legend of Zelda wikis either, as NIWA wikis take priority, especially to reflect how they are also listed on the Main page. This can be handled similarly to the Sonic wiki situation. Take the Sonic the Hedgehog article for example—there is an external link to both Sonic Retro and Sonic News Network, presumably because Sonic Retro is a lot more behind on coverage than Sonic News Network. Triforce Wiki doesn't even have 1,000 articles yet whereas Zelda Dungeon Wiki has over 10,000 articles. Similarly, on the Link article, what this would mean is that there would be an External links section listing the Zelda Dungeon Wiki article first and then the Triforce Wiki article below it. As many probably know, I am the founder of Triforce Wiki, although I handed it over to grifkuba for hosting (they host a couple of other NIWA wikis, so this gives it some credibility) & it is under new leadership. However, adding links to Triforce Wiki might come across to some as a conflict of interest, as a majority of its userbase is from the Super Mario Wiki itself. Because of this, the proposal will have an option to only allow a Zelda Dungeon Wiki link in the External links section of The Legend of Zelda-related articles. Proposer: Results May Vary (talk) Both
Zelda Dungeon Wiki onlyNeitherCommentsI have a concern regarding this proposal. I like the concept of linking to other Zelda wikis to give off choice, but what does Triforce Wiki and Zelda Dungeons Wiki have to offer to be used as external links? Are they vastly superior to link over Zelda Wiki? I feel like this might be a "conflict-of-interest" regardless of what it is said on the proposal. -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 19:29, December 30, 2021 (EST)
Create "Unused appearances" sections in historyTemplate:ProposalOutcome Unused appearances are currently covered in the "Other appearances" headers in history sections as a result of this 2019 proposal, however a more recent proposal refined the scope of other appearances sections to mostly cover third-party media that is otherwise outside of our coverage, while still retaining the unused appearances due to the earlier proposal, which seems very weird, in my opinion. So, I'm proposing to add an additional Unused appearances section which will go at the bottom of history sections and cover all unused appearances. If the create with headers option is chosen, unused appearances sections will be divided by game and series, like normal history sections. If the create without headers option is chosen, there will be a single header where all information is kept. If do nothing is chosen, well, that's self-explanatory. Proposer: Waluigi Time (talk) Create with headers
Create without headers
Do nothingCommentsRename "List of clothing" articles for the Mario & Luigi series to "List of gear", and merge "List of badges" articles for Superstar Saga and Partners in Time with those respective articlesTemplate:ProposalOutcome Regarding the former part, "gear" is the term more consistantly used in these games such as in the menu and in shops. Regarding the latter, lists for the different types of gear (e.g gloves and boots) are not split (and the badge list for Superstar Saga's remake is already merged), so this would make those more consistant with the other pages. I will list the articles here for convenience: Proposer: Swallow (talk) Do both
Only rename articlesOnly merge badge lists with respective clothing articlesDo neitherCommentsReminder I did pass a proposal to split all the individual items in them, but haven't yet gotten around to it due to the massive undertaking it will be. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:15, January 7, 2022 (EST)
Shouldn't these article names be "List of (game title) gear" anyway, to be consistent with every other list articles (ie List of Mario Party 6 minigames, List of Paper Mario quotes, List of Super Mario Odyssey media)? Ray Trace(T|C) 17:01, January 10, 2022 (EST)
Split or Merge Mario Kart Tour's Pallet SwapsTemplate:ProposalOutcome Okay, this has been on my mind for a bit now and it's largely in part to the Red Spike Top proposal going on. Red Spike Tops are considered being merged because they feature no distinct differences from Spike Tops other than their shell color. Despite opposing, I can see the logic behind this; they are pallet swaps and, for the most part, pallet swaps are naturally kept together in the parent species article. This got the gears in my brain turning and I realized that we have articles for pallet swapped karts and gliders from Mario Kart Tour, but we don't have articles for the pallet swapped characters. The karts and gliders have their own articles because they have different special skills, Favorite Courses and Favored Courses, but it strikes me as odd that the characters don't get the same treatment, despite having the same differences. I made a whole work page detailing as much as I could, but perhaps diving into the entire pallet swap deal as a whole would be a bit of a big jump. So I propose we start with Mario Kart Tour, a game that I feel has an ongoing inconsistency with the idea. Karts and Gliders have their own articles, pallet swap or not, but the characters do not. So I propose one of three options:
Proposer: Tails777 (talk) Split Mario Kart Tour Pallet Swap Characters
Merge Mario Kart Tour Pallet Swap Karts/Gliders
Do Nothing
Comments@Waluigi Time: The main reason I'm choosing to cover Tour only right now is because it's got a very simple, kinda enclosed solution. As I mentioned, diving into all sorts of pallet swaps deals with a lot more than just the Yoshis or Shy Guys; it could steer into RPG enemies as well, as they also feature pallet swaps and different stats. Trust me, I'd fully support splitting the Yoshis back into their separate articles because of their multiple appearances with differences (as you mentioned, Super Mario World). But because that topic covers so much, I thought it would be a hard and somewhat complicated place to start. So I thought of covering Tour only because the solutions are more simple to work with. Additionally, I do address the idea of costumed alternates, being something that could also qualify if people think they should. I would also support the idea, because like the colored pallet swaps, karts and gliders, they feature the same differences. Tails777 Talk to me!
What's your opinion on Goo-Goo Buggy/Rattle Buggy, Red Fire/Green Fire, Heart Coach/Bloom Coach, Piranha Pipes/Boo Pipes, Light Tripper/Light Dancer as well as the StandardXX articles (like Standard BW)? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:21, January 20, 2022 (EST)
I am willing to withdraw this proposal to talk about the topic more elsewhere. I completely understand where the opposing side is getting at: the idea of covering Tour only. Again, my reasoning was an attempt at starting simple, but it is very clear that it was not nearly as simple as anticipated. However, I still can't understand why we'll make articles for the Blue Biddybuggy, which is literally the blue color swap from Mario Kart 8, but not for something like Blue Yoshi. That's where my main concern comes from. In my overall opinion, I'd rather split articles like colored Yoshis and cover every instance where their colors differentiated from each other, such as in Super Mario World, the Mario Baseball series and such, and do so for other pallet swaps. I really do want to discuss this further to try to come to some sort of conclusion. Tails777 Talk to me! Merge Spiky John with Spiky Tom (or place both under Koopatrol)Template:ProposalOutcome Both are Koopatrols who take part in a quiz show. There isn’t a lot to say about either one given their short appearance. IDK why they have different pages to begin with if Ashley & Red, Kat & Ana, Young Cricket & Master Mantis or Dribble & Spitz have more appearances but are merged together. Their appearance is so brief that they could probably be merged under Koopatrol as well. Proposer: Remembered Old Buddy (talk) Merge Spiky John with Spiky Tom
Merge them under KoopatrolDo not merge
CommentsHewer, we can merge the Goombas as well. Remembered Old Buddy Merging of Wrecking Crew and VS. Wrecking Crew phasesTemplate:ProposalOutcome There are 100 different phases in Wrecking Crew and VS. Wrecking Crew that don't have much going for them. In Wrecking Crew, phases are constructed out of the same few tiles and enemies. Unlike other Mario games, I believe there isn't enough information in a single stage to justify creating a new article for each of them. You can see the phases on The Spriters Resource. VS. Wrecking Crew phases are even more simular, every phase looks just like the other. I propose to merge these phases into two article for each game: List of Wrecking Crew phases and List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases. Affected pages:
Proposer: Spectrogram (talk) Merge into "List of Wrecking Crew phases" and "List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases"
Only merge VS. Wrecking Crew phasesOnly merge Wrecking Crew phasesKeep separateCommentsMerging of Wrecking Crew and VS. Wrecking Crew phases (2)Template:ProposalOutcome (Relisted) There are 100 different phases in Wrecking Crew and VS. Wrecking Crew that don't have much going for them. In Wrecking Crew, phases are constructed out of the same few tiles and enemies. Unlike other Mario games, I believe there isn't enough information in a single stage to justify creating a new article for each of them. You can see the phases on The Spriters Resource. VS. Wrecking Crew phases are even more simular, every phase looks just like the other. I propose to merge these phases into two article for each game: List of Wrecking Crew phases and List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases. Affected pages:
Proposer: Spectrogram (talk) Merge into "List of Wrecking Crew phases" and "List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases"
Only merge VS. Wrecking Crew phasesOnly merge Wrecking Crew phasesKeep separateCommentsCreate a stat table template for karts in Mario Kart DSTemplate:ProposalOutcome Though we use this nice table template for the articles on the vehicles of Mario Kart Wii, we give no such treatment for Mario Kart DS's karts; instead opting to directly list each stat on a range from 1 to 10. There are problems with this, however. Firstly, the stat values listed are rounded to the nearest .5; this results in stats being slightly inaccurate to how they are displayed on the kart select screen in the game. The most egregious example of this, in my opinion, is the Standard DB: Despite it having acceleration and handling stats just short of the maximum value (by one pixel, in the case of the former), both stats are listed on its page as a perfect 10/10. Futhermore, Mario Kart DS determines weight based on the kart and the driver, but the weight stats listed on the kart pages are for the karts being used with their default drivers. This results in all of the Standard karts having different weight stats when they should all have the same weight, for example. Therefore, I propose the creation of a Mario Kart DS stat table template that can use the stats listed here, in the style of the one we have for Mario Kart Wii. Proposer: ShootingStar7X (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsNow that that's out of the way, should the weight bonus of the kart's default driver be listed on the template or not? ShootingStar7X (talk) 14:41, February 24, 2022 (EST)
@Mister Wu — That's a good idea, but how should we implement them into the stat tables: In parentheses after the in-game stat numbers, in a {{hover}} tooltip on the stat numbers, in another table altogether, or something else entirely? ShootingStar7X (talk) 21:21, February 24, 2022 (EST)
Do not consider usage of classic recurring themes as references to the game of originTemplate:ProposalOutcome I feel like this wiki has been taking this a bit far. For example, whenever the Super Mario Bros. ground theme is used in a game, we always consider it a direct reference to the game Super Mario Bros., when really since then it's become more Mario's main theme. Same with the underground theme for caves and airship theme for airships (usage for those are always considered references to Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. 3 respectively). This proposal hopes to cut down on that, and will not affect themes which hardly appear in other games, such as the Super Mario Bros. 2 ground theme appearing in Paper Mario: Color Splash. Proposer: Swallow (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsDecide how to cover the Sonic the Hedgehog animal friendsTemplate:ProposalOutcome Alright, so at the moment the Sonic the Hedgehog animal friends are only covered as external links, and, as they mainly appear as audience members, up until Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020 that worked well enough. But in that game, you can talk to several of the animal characters in the Story Mode, and given that as well as that they've also made consistent appearances across the series and even got a few collectibles to themselves, I think it might be time for them to get a little bit of coverage here too. The animals in question are:
I think there are three ways to go about it:
At this moment in time, I wouldn't entirely be sure what to call a collective page, as in crossover appearances they've never had a consistent name (To my knowledge, Fauna of Windy Hill Zone, Animals of Windy Hill Zone, Audience, Sonic's animal pals and simply animals have been used across various games), and I don't know if there's anything more concrete in Sonic games, so please let me know if you can think of a suitable name for the page. Proposer: BBQ Turtle (talk) Individual articlesCollective article
Stick to external linksCommentsWasn't it "Cookie" according to the Twitter-card things? Granted they did mix up the animals' names... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:02, March 13, 2022 (EDT) @BBQTurtle "Small animals" was used for the Adventure games, but those were the "downsized realistic animals" rather than the toony named ones. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:12, March 14, 2022 (EDT) Merge some complete BJAODN "articles" with collectionsTemplate:ProposalOutcome I brought this up on a talk page before, but I feel like I should do a proposal before messing around with anything. So, I was looking over the BJAODN these past 2 weeks for something, and I feel like quite a few of the complete "articles" are normal-entry-level size, and don't really need a separate page. Most notably, the Make A Website "article". It's literally shorter than about 2/5ths of the collection entries we have, and that's including the one comment on the bottom. And there's a few more complete "articles" like this as well; Crotch-Face Guy, Mario (species), and Beezos from what I can see. I believe these four than easily fit on collection pages. Additionally, I feel like quite a few collection entries could stand as their own separate articles as well; while there's plenty of candidates, the only one I really want to bring up in this proposal is the entry about the Luigi's Mansion game, because it's almost as big as the Princess Peach's Voice "article" despite being merged with a collection. I think this one could be split into it's own complete article as well, but I will leave an option to just merge the 4 small "articles" with collections if people disagree. So to recap, I have 4 options on what to do:
Proposer: Somethingone (talk) Option 1
Option 2
Option 3Option 4CommentsEstablish proper size of the Media section for game articles with a dedicated media listMost Media sections of game articles link to a separate list of media (mostly music). It has been the standard for Media sections to have a small sample of files to give an approximate preview of the full list, but the wiki is inconsistent in how many are chosen. At the time of writing, the Media section for Super Mario 64 has five audio files (plus a video), yet Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart 7 show only one file each. Mario Party 8 has seven! This proposal should settle on how many audio files should be chosen for Media sections. This would be more of a strong recommendation than a hard rule, but consistency is the goal here. Video files are uncommon, but they should still be kept to one per Media section where applicable (see Super Mario Sunshine). Proposer: DannyTheDingo (talk) 1 audio file2-3 audio files4-5 audio files
6+ audio filesNo set amountCommentsI have also come across a few Media sections that merely display the beginning few files from the media list. (Until I recently changed it, the Media section for Mario Super Sluggers showed the first four in the list. This was a problem because it was largely unrepresentative; the first two were an unused theme and a repetitive 20-second loop heard once in the entire game.) I almost made a proposal about prohibiting this kind of thing, but it seems too uncommon to be worth doing that. DingoHazel [00515] 05:20, March 29, 2022 (EDT)
Allow/prohibit fan work by former Nintendo staffTemplate:ProposalOutcome After their contractual obligations for Nintendo have ended, certain affiliates such as Steve Mayles and Masanori Sato have continued to celebrate the franchises they helped shape through various pieces of artwork. These works, consequently, are not direct promotional material nor are they endorsed or acknowledged by Nintendo, pertaining potentially to the realm of fan art more than what this wiki outlines as official material. Nevertheless, the notability that tailgates these people was reason enough for me to have already uploaded a number of their post-contractual works on the wiki. The proposal's aim is to sort out whether this practice should be further allowed--and on what conditions. In hashing over the proposal's options, I will divide these "fan" works by two paradigms, so to speak: those that portray at least one specific character from the Mario franchise (which can be modified but otherwise still recognizable), and those that are parodies or feature vaguely-represented elements pertaining to the franchise, but do not otherwise portray any officially recognised character. Examples from the former include an illustration of Dixie Kong by Steve Mayles (twitter.com), a sketch of Yoshi by Masanori Sato (instagram.com), and a Bob-omb King-like creature accompanied by an actual Bob-omb (instagram.com), also by Sato; examples of the latter include an illustration of two Mario&Luigi-like characters (instagram.com), another of a turtle-esque fairy (instagram.com) resembling Boom Boom or Pom Pom, and yet another of a distinctly Wario-looking fellow (instagram.com). In this respect, I propose three directions:
I should note that the proposal excludes work that has had a function in the promotion or development of a certain media product or the franchise in general, such as Miyamoto's drawn cover for the Edge magazine, or the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mario-Rathalos artwork. Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk) Option 1: Allow all
Option 2: Allow only on-brand depictions
Option 3: Don't allow any, delete existing uploads relating to this categoryCommentsAt any rate, what do the users in here think of Sato's Mario & Luigi-esque portrayal of Mickey and Goofy? Is it worth keeping it on the wiki for the stylistic and dynamic similarities alone? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:44, March 30, 2022 (EDT) @RHG1951 @Somethingone I pointed out the Mickey and Goofy image as an individual case, because I thought some users may find its connection to Mario way too tenuous, and probably only coincidental given the fact that an artist can practice their style without this necessarily connecting their works. The artwork deprecated by the second option still relates to Mario in more than just style; do keep this in mind. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 20:01, March 30, 2022 (EDT) |