MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/56: Difference between revisions
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{{ProposalOutcome|passed|16-0|implement}} | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|16-0|implement}} | ||
So what we're going to do is replace the images from games like SMAS and SM3DAS with ones from their base game, but still keep the images in their gallery, like this: | So what we're going to do is replace the images from games like SMAS and SM3DAS with ones from their base game, but still keep the images in their gallery, like this: | ||
{{ | {{level infobox | ||
|title={{world|3|2}} | |title={{world|3|2}} | ||
|image='''An image of World 3-2 in ''[[Super Mario Bros. 3]]'' would go here''' | |image='''An image of World 3-2 in ''[[Super Mario Bros. 3]]'' would go here''' | ||
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Will this proposal just cover SMS, or other games with minor locations deserving of an article that hasn't been created yet? {{User:DarkNight/sig}} 23:42, October 23, 2020 (EDT) | Will this proposal just cover SMS, or other games with minor locations deserving of an article that hasn't been created yet? {{User:DarkNight/sig}} 23:42, October 23, 2020 (EDT) | ||
:Focusing on SMS, though maybe one or two of SM64? The only one I can currently think of is [[Windswept Valley]], although I'm certain there are others. So, this applies to SMS and SM64. {{User:The Mansion/sig}} 00:35, October 24, 2020 (EDT) | :Focusing on SMS, though maybe one or two of SM64? The only one I can currently think of is [[Windswept Valley]], although I'm certain there are others. So, this applies to SMS and SM64. {{User:The Mansion/sig}} 00:35, October 24, 2020 (EDT) | ||
::Btw, this would NOT apply to generic locations such as "Pyramid" from [[Shifting Sand Land]] and "Volcano" from [[Lethal Lava Land]] as they already make up and contribute to a majority of each level and would write more or less the same. This mostly targets more minor locations with established titles confirmed either by a character or the title of an episode. Just clarifying, as I saw this brought up in a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | ::Btw, this would NOT apply to generic locations such as "Pyramid" from [[Shifting Sand Land]] and "Volcano" from [[Lethal Lava Land]] as they already make up and contribute to a majority of each level and would write more or less the same. This mostly targets more minor locations with established titles confirmed either by a character or the title of an episode. Just clarifying, as I saw this brought up in a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/12#SM64_Sub_Levels|previous proposal]]. {{User:The Mansion/sig}} 10:53, October 29, 2020 (EDT) | ||
===Decide where to cover Cheese the Chao=== | ===Decide where to cover Cheese the Chao=== | ||
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===Allow/create categories for images and media by website=== | ===Allow/create categories for images and media by website=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|6-0-0|allow Category:YouTube Images and create further image/media categories by website}} | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|6-0-0|allow Category:YouTube Images and create further image/media categories by website}} | ||
I got a little ahead of myself when I created the [[:Category:YouTube | I got a little ahead of myself when I created the [[:Category:YouTube images|YouTube Images]] category and I feel like there should have been some discussion first. This category in particular contains images of material that is currently hosted on YouTube, such as [[:File:YT Nintendo Survey Stars.jpg|these]] [[:File:Play Nintendo Show Andrew and Izzy.jpg|screencaps]] and the hundreds of thumbnails we have of ''Mario'' DiC cartoon uploads. The rationale behind this category's creation was that just as we have categories of images from many publications, including a [[:Category:Prima Games images|third-party one]], and even from a [[:Category:Play Nintendo images|certain website]], so too there should be categories dedicated to media published on third-party platforms. Should this proposal pass, more categories like the YouTube Images one will be created, such as one for images originating from Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and other sites (posted by both Nintendo-operated and third-party accounts). If a picture is uploaded by official accounts across multiple platforms, said image will be categorized by all these platforms. | ||
The proposal exludes media ripped from official game websites, as these are more suitable to be categorized by related game. | The proposal exludes media ripped from official game websites, as these are more suitable to be categorized by related game. | ||
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====Do not change==== | ====Do not change==== | ||
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per myself in The Princess Peach talk page and summarized points. <s>All</s> I'd add <s>is</s> that it's not just the text within video games that hasn't been italicizing ship names, but also ''Nintendo Power'' and related guides as far as I'm aware. Additionally, I'm still not sure why MLA style in particular should be adopted when even certain other styles disagree and have other ideas. Personally, I think a fan wiki can easily afford to adopt and discard the conventions that work best for it in its own Manual of Style, and as-is is closer to our goal of being as official as possible. Also pointing out observations in the comments below such as the full-on [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per myself in The Princess Peach talk page and summarized points. <s>All</s> I'd add <s>is</s> that it's not just the text within video games that hasn't been italicizing ship names, but also ''Nintendo Power'' and related guides as far as I'm aware. Additionally, I'm still not sure why MLA style in particular should be adopted when even certain other styles disagree and have other ideas. Personally, I think a fan wiki can easily afford to adopt and discard the conventions that work best for it in its own Manual of Style, and as-is is closer to our goal of being as official as possible. Also pointing out observations in the comments below such as the full-on [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/27#MLA_Format|rejection]] of enforcing MLA in [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/55#Create a template for citations|proposal]]s and [[MarioWiki talk:Manual of Style#On the Topic of References|discussion]]s, shortsightedness of modeling ourselves after other wikis that don't have the same goals, science [[Halberd|fantasy]]/[[Arwing|fiction]] [[:Category:Aircraft|ve]][[:Category:Spacecraft|hi]][[:Category:Trains|cl]][[:Category:Watercraft|es]] unnecessarily affected in accordance, etc. And for those repeating that the MLA is just more "formal" - the MLA was designed with the express intent of academic/scholarly purposes. Those who drafted our Manual of Style understood that there are other valid ways to suitably formalize and knew to draw the line at overcorrection. | ||
#{{User|Alex95}} - Having ship names in the mix would probably be confusing considering we've only been italicizing media names and nothing else. "The Princess Peach" is not a media. I think the point of italicizing titles is to make it clear on what's media and what's not (though I see the [[Super Luigi series]] is an outlier here, given it is not a real piece of media). | #{{User|Alex95}} - Having ship names in the mix would probably be confusing considering we've only been italicizing media names and nothing else. "The Princess Peach" is not a media. I think the point of italicizing titles is to make it clear on what's media and what's not (though I see the [[Super Luigi series]] is an outlier here, given it is not a real piece of media). | ||
#{{User|Keyblade Master}} - Although this is something the Kingdom Hearts Wiki does (for the ships in the Pirates of the Carribean worlds), doing it here would be a bit too much. | #{{User|Keyblade Master}} - Although this is something the Kingdom Hearts Wiki does (for the ships in the Pirates of the Carribean worlds), doing it here would be a bit too much. | ||
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:::I'm not sure how ''Kingdom Hearts'' handles things (preliminary glancing suggests that series also doesn't italicize ships but there are so many different games and versions it may not be consistent), but I don't think it was sufficiently [[Talk:The Princess Peach|answered]] why the wiki must adopt this aspect of MLA style specifically when Nintendo themselves demonstrably do not. Other styles are just as valid if not moreso for the general purposes of a wiki. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:22, December 13, 2020 (EST) | :::I'm not sure how ''Kingdom Hearts'' handles things (preliminary glancing suggests that series also doesn't italicize ships but there are so many different games and versions it may not be consistent), but I don't think it was sufficiently [[Talk:The Princess Peach|answered]] why the wiki must adopt this aspect of MLA style specifically when Nintendo themselves demonstrably do not. Other styles are just as valid if not moreso for the general purposes of a wiki. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:22, December 13, 2020 (EST) | ||
::::Nintendo is inconsistent with italicizing game titles: they don't do it for in-game text either, especially in Smash Bros. bios for characters where game titles are left unitalicized. I don't think they're the ideal model to look to when it comes to formatting things in an encyclopedic fashion because they serve a different medium: it's unnecessary for them to italicize things for in-game purposes. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 14:53, December 13, 2020 (EST) | ::::Nintendo is inconsistent with italicizing game titles: they don't do it for in-game text either, especially in Smash Bros. bios for characters where game titles are left unitalicized. I don't think they're the ideal model to look to when it comes to formatting things in an encyclopedic fashion because they serve a different medium: it's unnecessary for them to italicize things for in-game purposes. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 14:53, December 13, 2020 (EST) | ||
:::::But I still fail to understand what makes going further with MLA style ideal for this encyclopedia. There's a difference between italicizing subjects that exist in the real world and italicizing subjects that have never been officially italicized as they simply don't exist. In the end, it's a stylistic choice that not everyone universally uses - so again, why even enforce MLA in particular? Consider also that the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 27#MLA Format|topic]] [[MarioWiki talk:Manual of Style#On the Topic of References|of]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 55#Create a template for citations|MLA]] has come up several times in the past, and each time it was decided not to strictly use it. Also, I understand that not all in-game text supports italics - which is why I am additionally referencing [https://archive.org/details/NintendoGameBoyManuals/Wario%20Land%20-%20Super%20Mario%20Land%203%20%28World%29/page/n9/mode/2up manuals,] ''Nintendo Power'', and related guides and supporting material, where it would have made the most sense to italicize these things (for example, [http://web.archive.org/web/19980610012500/http://www.nintendo.com/gb/wario_land_ii/2.html here] is the "SS Tea Cup" on the ''Wario Land II'' website). Different styles are meant for different purposes - for example, the U.S. Navy Style Guide specifies not to use "the" before a ship's name, running counter to "the Sweet Stuff" and "the Princess Peach" among all other mentions - so is it really our role to fix what, by most accounts, isn't broken? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:12, December 13, 2020 (EST) | :::::But I still fail to understand what makes going further with MLA style ideal for this encyclopedia. There's a difference between italicizing subjects that exist in the real world and italicizing subjects that have never been officially italicized as they simply don't exist. In the end, it's a stylistic choice that not everyone universally uses - so again, why even enforce MLA in particular? Consider also that the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/27#MLA Format|topic]] [[MarioWiki talk:Manual of Style#On the Topic of References|of]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/55#Create a template for citations|MLA]] has come up several times in the past, and each time it was decided not to strictly use it. Also, I understand that not all in-game text supports italics - which is why I am additionally referencing [https://archive.org/details/NintendoGameBoyManuals/Wario%20Land%20-%20Super%20Mario%20Land%203%20%28World%29/page/n9/mode/2up manuals,] ''Nintendo Power'', and related guides and supporting material, where it would have made the most sense to italicize these things (for example, [http://web.archive.org/web/19980610012500/http://www.nintendo.com/gb/wario_land_ii/2.html here] is the "SS Tea Cup" on the ''Wario Land II'' website). Different styles are meant for different purposes - for example, the U.S. Navy Style Guide specifies not to use "the" before a ship's name, running counter to "the Sweet Stuff" and "the Princess Peach" among all other mentions - so is it really our role to fix what, by most accounts, isn't broken? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:12, December 13, 2020 (EST) | ||
::::::I realize that we're not explicitly using MLA but I think italics for works and the odd ship name is the way to go and in terms of general formatting, I think it's best to follow closer to that. I don't think it's that much of a major change but I'd like to see text for ship names appear similar to the ship names in Wikipedia, as well as fictional works. Citations ''should'' be formatted by the way and there's agreement that we need the formatting here and I'll still pressure featured articles to have proper sourcing. I think style guides can be inconsistent and some game guides don't italicize ship names, but I'm not really seeing the connection we have to make between game guides and wiki compared to looking at examples from big wikis. I will ask, however, about the reasoning for format to begin with: why do we bold the first instance of the subject in an article? Why italicize game names at all? Why even encourage italics for practically all major works (quotations for smaller works) and stop at ship names (as well as names for things not mentioned in our Manual of Style including web publications and artwork; what if a famous pop artist creates a titled work about Mario? should we not italicize even if it's not explicitly spelled out in the Manual of Style?) even if ship names are usually included? Why put dates in citations in parentheses? Why forbid the use of 2nd person? Why discourage contractions? In the end, this might just boil down to fundamental disagreement on how to format prose, but I feel the reasons for stopping at ship titles are reliant on nonencyclopedic styling from other sources, that we aren't adopting MLA (which is technically true it appears but I do not see the harm in using its suggestions especially when other encyclopedias do this) and the argument that we aren't Wikipedia (this needs to be backed up to why we should deviate here; only example given was the formatting on a video game article name regarding ''NiGHTS into Dreams'' which I do not think is a strong case against italicizing ship names and fictional works), which I do not agree. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 21:00, December 13, 2020 (EST) | ::::::I realize that we're not explicitly using MLA but I think italics for works and the odd ship name is the way to go and in terms of general formatting, I think it's best to follow closer to that. I don't think it's that much of a major change but I'd like to see text for ship names appear similar to the ship names in Wikipedia, as well as fictional works. Citations ''should'' be formatted by the way and there's agreement that we need the formatting here and I'll still pressure featured articles to have proper sourcing. I think style guides can be inconsistent and some game guides don't italicize ship names, but I'm not really seeing the connection we have to make between game guides and wiki compared to looking at examples from big wikis. I will ask, however, about the reasoning for format to begin with: why do we bold the first instance of the subject in an article? Why italicize game names at all? Why even encourage italics for practically all major works (quotations for smaller works) and stop at ship names (as well as names for things not mentioned in our Manual of Style including web publications and artwork; what if a famous pop artist creates a titled work about Mario? should we not italicize even if it's not explicitly spelled out in the Manual of Style?) even if ship names are usually included? Why put dates in citations in parentheses? Why forbid the use of 2nd person? Why discourage contractions? In the end, this might just boil down to fundamental disagreement on how to format prose, but I feel the reasons for stopping at ship titles are reliant on nonencyclopedic styling from other sources, that we aren't adopting MLA (which is technically true it appears but I do not see the harm in using its suggestions especially when other encyclopedias do this) and the argument that we aren't Wikipedia (this needs to be backed up to why we should deviate here; only example given was the formatting on a video game article name regarding ''NiGHTS into Dreams'' which I do not think is a strong case against italicizing ship names and fictional works), which I do not agree. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 21:00, December 13, 2020 (EST) | ||
:::::::The change from ''NiGHTS into Dream...'' to ''Nights into Dreams'' is one I can only charitably describe as braindead idiocy, but if you want more examples of Mario Wiki articles that would be butchered under Wikipedia standards, a lot of titles should probably be considered generic within their context - meaning that we would uncapitalize the names of [[ape]], [[bear (enemy)|bear]], [[Bee (Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins)|b]][[Bee#Yoshi's Story|e]][[Bee (Wario Land II)|e]][[Bee (Donkey Kong Jungle Beat)|s]], [[chicken]], [[cobra]], [[cook]], [[Drill Bit|drill bit]], [[Ghost (Piranha Plant)|ghost]], [[hog]], [[Hot Dog (item)|hot]] [[Hot Dog (enemy)|dog]] [[Hot Dog Stand|stand]], [[Maw-Ray|unagi]], [[Poison Mushroom|poison mushroom]], [[poltergeist]], [[raccoon]], [[Sea Turtle|sea turtle]], [[shadow]], [[Small Spider|small spider]], [[Snake (Mario Clash)|snake]], [[twister]], [[urchin]], among dozens of others. Then what? Do those names become unusable, or are we merely "fixing" Nintendo's "mistake"? Is that not going to put off readers expecting something more out of this wiki and have for years seen this corner of the Internet as being next to official to their interests? Frankly, becoming more like other wikis means going down a rabbit hole that I'll refuse to part of, so let's try to keep the discussion about "MLA style and its merits" instead of "MLA style because of Wikipedia". Now, our Manual of Style certainly does use a few elements of MLA*, but previous attempts to adopt MLA [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 27#MLA Format|wholesale]] have been shot down (the main argument against [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 55#Create a template for citations|this]], by the way, isn't that we ''shouldn't'' properly source citations, but rather that such templates are too restrictive to one arbitrarily "right" style, promote unnecessary elitism, would be too cumbersome to enact, etc.). As for a reason for not italicizing ship names that doesn't boil down to "this is my personal preference"? Well, aside from the idea that it is not our place to "fix" Nintendo's fiction (interpretations are one thing, but corrections are another), keep in mind that said fiction is a fantastical video game franchise with outlandish things such as [[Doom Ship|fanciful]] [[Rainbow Cruiser|airship]]s, [[Jumbo Barrel|barrel]] [[Biplane Barrel|aircraft]]s, [[Submarine Yoshi|vehicle]] [[Train (form)|transformation]]s, and [[Flying Pizza|advanced]] [[Pleiades|spaceship]]s - are we really going to italicize all of these too despite how silly we will look? And if not, "why stop there" if it's MLA? If so, what about cases like the multipurpose [[Dribble Taxi]], where there's no clear idea on if it should be unitalicized like most other automobiles or italicized like most other vessels? I just think this is much more trouble than it's worth. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 06:25, December 14, 2020 (EST) | :::::::The change from ''NiGHTS into Dream...'' to ''Nights into Dreams'' is one I can only charitably describe as braindead idiocy, but if you want more examples of Mario Wiki articles that would be butchered under Wikipedia standards, a lot of titles should probably be considered generic within their context - meaning that we would uncapitalize the names of [[ape]], [[bear (enemy)|bear]], [[Bee (Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins)|b]][[Bee#Yoshi's Story|e]][[Bee (Wario Land II)|e]][[Bee (Donkey Kong Jungle Beat)|s]], [[chicken]], [[cobra]], [[cook]], [[Drill Bit|drill bit]], [[Ghost (Piranha Plant)|ghost]], [[hog]], [[Hot Dog (item)|hot]] [[Hot Dog (enemy)|dog]] [[Hot Dog Stand|stand]], [[Maw-Ray|unagi]], [[Poison Mushroom|poison mushroom]], [[poltergeist]], [[raccoon]], [[Sea Turtle|sea turtle]], [[shadow]], [[Small Spider|small spider]], [[Snake (Mario Clash)|snake]], [[twister]], [[urchin]], among dozens of others. Then what? Do those names become unusable, or are we merely "fixing" Nintendo's "mistake"? Is that not going to put off readers expecting something more out of this wiki and have for years seen this corner of the Internet as being next to official to their interests? Frankly, becoming more like other wikis means going down a rabbit hole that I'll refuse to part of, so let's try to keep the discussion about "MLA style and its merits" instead of "MLA style because of Wikipedia". Now, our Manual of Style certainly does use a few elements of MLA*, but previous attempts to adopt MLA [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/27#MLA Format|wholesale]] have been shot down (the main argument against [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/55#Create a template for citations|this]], by the way, isn't that we ''shouldn't'' properly source citations, but rather that such templates are too restrictive to one arbitrarily "right" style, promote unnecessary elitism, would be too cumbersome to enact, etc.). As for a reason for not italicizing ship names that doesn't boil down to "this is my personal preference"? Well, aside from the idea that it is not our place to "fix" Nintendo's fiction (interpretations are one thing, but corrections are another), keep in mind that said fiction is a fantastical video game franchise with outlandish things such as [[Doom Ship|fanciful]] [[Rainbow Cruiser|airship]]s, [[Jumbo Barrel|barrel]] [[Biplane Barrel|aircraft]]s, [[Submarine Yoshi|vehicle]] [[Train (form)|transformation]]s, and [[Flying Pizza|advanced]] [[Pleiades|spaceship]]s - are we really going to italicize all of these too despite how silly we will look? And if not, "why stop there" if it's MLA? If so, what about cases like the multipurpose [[Dribble Taxi]], where there's no clear idea on if it should be unitalicized like most other automobiles or italicized like most other vessels? I just think this is much more trouble than it's worth. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 06:25, December 14, 2020 (EST) | ||
::::::::You are misinterpreting the goal of that citation proposal. The template would have been used in the same vein as <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[:Template:Ref quote|ref quote]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> in that it would have been an option for editors who opt for some formatting consistency. Also, promoting "elitism"? I see that as adhering to more academic conventions. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 07:37, December 14, 2020 (EST) | ::::::::You are misinterpreting the goal of that citation proposal. The template would have been used in the same vein as <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[:Template:Ref quote|ref quote]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> in that it would have been an option for editors who opt for some formatting consistency. Also, promoting "elitism"? I see that as adhering to more academic conventions. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 07:37, December 14, 2020 (EST) | ||
:::::::::There are many other reasons it lost as sorting through all those comments is outside the scope of this discussion and, frankly, irrelevant (anyone is urged to read through and decide for themselves if those reasons are justified in their free time, hence "etc.", but I'm not the only one who disagrees with the notion that it must mean we do not encourage proper citations) - it serves as an example of MLA being brought up and rejected by other users in the past. I will address the "academic / looking to Wikipedia" angle as I feel it is relevant here: the simple fact is that we are not an academic resource, and {{wp|Wikipedia:Academic use|neither is Wikipedia}}. Furthermore, Wikipedia has a motto called {{wp|Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth|verifiability, not truth}}. How about {{wp|Wikipedia:No original research|no original research}}? That would mean many things like [[Special:Contributions/Dayvvbrooks|Dayvv Brooks]] and [[Talk:Virtual Boy Wario Land#Official boss names|NOA]] [[Talk:Wario Land II#Some more enemy names|emails]] are out the window. {{wp|Wikipedia:No original research#Using sources|Primary sources}}? Our stance is basically backwards from theirs. Among a myriad of reasons, modeling ourselves after Wikipedia (or most other wikis for that matter) does not suit the goals and needs of the Super Mario Wiki, which is to accurately represent all things ''Mario''. It does no one any favors to get wrapped up in the trivialities of the formatting originating from more general wikis. Let's not use this as an excuse to sidestep active issues though. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:23, December 14, 2020 (EST) | :::::::::There are many other reasons it lost as sorting through all those comments is outside the scope of this discussion and, frankly, irrelevant (anyone is urged to read through and decide for themselves if those reasons are justified in their free time, hence "etc.", but I'm not the only one who disagrees with the notion that it must mean we do not encourage proper citations) - it serves as an example of MLA being brought up and rejected by other users in the past. I will address the "academic / looking to Wikipedia" angle as I feel it is relevant here: the simple fact is that we are not an academic resource, and {{wp|Wikipedia:Academic use|neither is Wikipedia}}. Furthermore, Wikipedia has a motto called {{wp|Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth|verifiability, not truth}}. How about {{wp|Wikipedia:No original research|no original research}}? That would mean many things like [[Special:Contributions/Dayvvbrooks|Dayvv Brooks]] and [[Talk:Virtual Boy Wario Land#Official boss names|NOA]] [[Talk:Wario Land II#Some more enemy names|emails]] are out the window. {{wp|Wikipedia:No original research#Using sources|Primary sources}}? Our stance is basically backwards from theirs. Among a myriad of reasons, modeling ourselves after Wikipedia (or most other wikis for that matter) does not suit the goals and needs of the Super Mario Wiki, which is to accurately represent all things ''Mario''. It does no one any favors to get wrapped up in the trivialities of the formatting originating from more general wikis. Let's not use this as an excuse to sidestep active issues though. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:23, December 14, 2020 (EST) | ||
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===Rethink our approach for Smash Bros coverage=== | ===Rethink our approach for Smash Bros coverage=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|cancelled}} | {{ProposalOutcome|cancelled}} | ||
Our offical [[ | Our offical [[SMW:COVERAGE|coverage policy]] states that we provide full coverage for the Super Smash Bros. series. However, I do not believe this can be viable anymore. The SmashWiki has served as the primary soruce for Smash Bros. content, and Google Search shows most of MarioWiki's pages related to Smash Bros. relatively low. The traffic favors more in SmashWiki than on MarioWiki in terms of Smash Bros. content. | ||
Another big problem is we have [[Special:LongPages|huge articles]] such as [[ | Another big problem is we have [[Special:LongPages|huge articles]] such as [[List of trophies in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U]] that cover a lot about Smash Bros. than Mario itself. I am aware that Mario's huge presence in Smash Bros. warrants this series to be on this wiki, but there needs to be huge changes to how we cover this series. There are several methods that I propose: | ||
*'''Narrow Smash content down to only fighters.''' Each fighter will have to be shorten so as to not overlap largely with SmashWiki. Any content unrelated to fighters will either have to be merged into the main Smash Bros. pages or serve as redirects for SmashWiki. | *'''Narrow Smash content down to only fighters.''' Each fighter will have to be shorten so as to not overlap largely with SmashWiki. Any content unrelated to fighters will either have to be merged into the main Smash Bros. pages or serve as redirects for SmashWiki. | ||
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====Narrow Smash content to only fighters==== | ====Narrow Smash content to only fighters==== | ||
====Narrow Smash content to only Mario-related topics==== | ====Narrow Smash content to only Mario-related topics==== | ||
====Remove side-content related to Smash Bros==== | ====Remove side-content related to Smash Bros==== | ||
#{{User|PanchamBro}} I don't think we should eliminate all of Smash Bros. on this wiki, but we should keep it short and only include important Smash Bros. content such as fighters, stages, and bosses. As for what to do to how we handle fighter and stage pages is up for another discussion, but side-content such as [[ | #{{User|PanchamBro}} I don't think we should eliminate all of Smash Bros. on this wiki, but we should keep it short and only include important Smash Bros. content such as fighters, stages, and bosses. As for what to do to how we handle fighter and stage pages is up for another discussion, but side-content such as [[List of trophies in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U]] should be removed. | ||
====Leave all Smash Bros content alone and focus on brevity==== | ====Leave all Smash Bros content alone and focus on brevity==== | ||
====Do nothing==== | ====Do nothing==== | ||
====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
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====Support (excluding the removal of non-''Mario'' fighter spirits, trophies, etc)==== | ====Support (excluding the removal of non-''Mario'' fighter spirits, trophies, etc)==== | ||
#{{user|Glowsquid}} - If it has a page, is fair game, is how I see it. | #{{user|Glowsquid}} - If it has a page, is fair game, is how I see it. | ||
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Strong support. [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Delete the bonuses pages from the Super Smash Bros. series|We went out of our way]] to limit coverage of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' franchise itself, which has more in common with the ''Mario'' franchise than any other singular franchises represented in it. In that case, why pray tell do we have so much irrelevant coverage on Zelda, Star Fox, Kirby and many others? However, as Glowsquid stated above, any extra-Mario subject that has a page here for one reason or another should still be allowed additional info like trophy and spirit information. | #{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Strong support. [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Delete the bonuses pages from the Super Smash Bros. series|We went out of our way]] to limit coverage of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' franchise itself, which has more in common with the ''Mario'' franchise than any other singular franchises represented in it. In that case, why pray tell do we have so much irrelevant coverage on Zelda, Star Fox, Kirby and many others? However, as Glowsquid stated above, any extra-Mario subject that has a page here for one reason or another should still be allowed additional info like trophy and spirit information. | ||
#{{User|Doomhiker}} I'm additionally fine with this being the case, though the above option is preferred in my opinion. | #{{User|Doomhiker}} I'm additionally fine with this being the case, though the above option is preferred in my opinion. | ||
#{{User|PanchamBro}} I'm more than happy for the articles to be downsized in my opinion, considering how large the [[List of trophies in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U]] article is, with not much information on Mario and more-so on other franchises. | #{{User|PanchamBro}} I'm more than happy for the articles to be downsized in my opinion, considering how large the [[List of trophies in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U]] article is, with not much information on Mario and more-so on other franchises. | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
"''WildBrain [...] made captions for the all of the Mario cartoons.''" | "''WildBrain [...] made captions for the all of the Mario cartoons.''" | ||
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===Citing WildBrain=== | ===Citing WildBrain=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|0-2-14|Do not allow WildBrain to be used as a source}} | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|0-2-14|Do not allow WildBrain to be used as a source}} | ||
A while ago, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 56#"Closed caption of the Mario cartoons"|a proposal was made about using closed captions of the ''Super Mario'' cartoons from third-party contractors hired by WildBrain]], which we opted to decline because A) WildBrain has been notorious for stealing chunks of information away from us without attribution, B) WildBrain has been entirely unprofessional with their handling of the ''Super Mario'' cartoons, and C) closed captions were unreliable compared to the actual script. | A while ago, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/56#"Closed caption of the Mario cartoons"|a proposal was made about using closed captions of the ''Super Mario'' cartoons from third-party contractors hired by WildBrain]], which we opted to decline because A) WildBrain has been notorious for stealing chunks of information away from us without attribution, B) WildBrain has been entirely unprofessional with their handling of the ''Super Mario'' cartoons, and C) closed captions were unreliable compared to the actual script. | ||
However, although we may have disallowed using the closed captions as a source, we still have areas of information that directly source themselves to WildBrain. Similar to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|how we prohibited using the English Super Mario Encyclopedia over similar issues]], we should disallow the usage of WildBrain as a source for these reasons I listed above, and therefore our sources for the ''Super Mario'' cartoons should only pertain to the staff involved with the cartoons and [[DiC Entertainment]] themselves. | However, although we may have disallowed using the closed captions as a source, we still have areas of information that directly source themselves to WildBrain. Similar to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|how we prohibited using the English Super Mario Encyclopedia over similar issues]], we should disallow the usage of WildBrain as a source for these reasons I listed above, and therefore our sources for the ''Super Mario'' cartoons should only pertain to the staff involved with the cartoons and [[DiC Entertainment]] themselves. | ||
'''Proposer''': {{User|PanchamBro}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|PanchamBro}}<br> | ||
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====Allow all parts of WildBrain to be used as a source==== | ====Allow all parts of WildBrain to be used as a source==== | ||
====Allow some parts of WildBrain to be used as a source==== | ====Allow some parts of WildBrain to be used as a source==== | ||
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I think we should allow WildBrain's names to be redirects since the whole point of redirects is to be helpful to readers and there might be some readers who would find those redirects helpful. For example, someone might see the 'Ahehehauhe' clip on YouTube and search it up here in search of information on the clip without knowledge of the episode name. Otherwise, I understand why we decided not to cite WildBrain, but I think that we should adjust our naming policy to specify that WildBrain can't be cited after this proposal (depending on its result) like we did with the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia''. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:02, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | I think we should allow WildBrain's names to be redirects since the whole point of redirects is to be helpful to readers and there might be some readers who would find those redirects helpful. For example, someone might see the 'Ahehehauhe' clip on YouTube and search it up here in search of information on the clip without knowledge of the episode name. Otherwise, I understand why we decided not to cite WildBrain, but I think that we should adjust our naming policy to specify that WildBrain can't be cited after this proposal (depending on its result) like we did with the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia''. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:02, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ||
:I see your point, though I do question if we have to therefore include hundreds of redirects for any particular clip made of any episode, especially since clips can named by anyone, WildBrain included. I should also point out that the 'Ahehehauhe' clip only attached 4k views on YouTube, which doesn't justify the demand for these redirects. {{User:PanchamBro/sig}} 15:24, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | :I see your point, though I do question if we have to therefore include hundreds of redirects for any particular clip made of any episode, especially since clips can named by anyone, WildBrain included. I should also point out that the 'Ahehehauhe' clip only attached 4k views on YouTube, which doesn't justify the demand for these redirects. {{User:PanchamBro/sig}} 15:24, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ||
::According to [[ | ::According to [[SMW:REDIRECTS]], a redirect is justified if there is a chance someone would find it helpful, which I feel there is in this case. This policy also states that redirects should only be deleted if they are too general or too silly, and redirects like 'Ahehehauhe' don't fall under either of those categories since it's clear what they're referring to and what a reader searching it is most likely looking for, and they come from a source that is, by at least one definition, official. Also note the policy says alternate names as redirects are fine. So going off of our policies there doesn't seem to be a good reason for deleting these redirects, and there's not really a downside to creating a large amount of redirects anyway. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:43, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ||
:::How, precisely, does that not fall under "too silly?" [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:27, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | :::How, precisely, does that not fall under "too silly?" [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:27, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ||
::::What the policy seems to mean by 'too silly' is joke redirects and borderline vandalism, judging by its example 'Game with luigi and ghosts 2'. 'Ahehehauhe' has a legitimate reason to exist, and according to the policy, it should exist, since it has some potential to clear up confusion even if we aren't going to use WildBrain's names as page titles. It's comparable to how someone might see the name '[[Soarin' Stu]]' in the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' and search it here, and we have a redirect for it even though we do not use it as a name. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:57, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ::::What the policy seems to mean by 'too silly' is joke redirects and borderline vandalism, judging by its example 'Game with luigi and ghosts 2'. 'Ahehehauhe' has a legitimate reason to exist, and according to the policy, it should exist, since it has some potential to clear up confusion even if we aren't going to use WildBrain's names as page titles. It's comparable to how someone might see the name '[[Soarin' Stu]]' in the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' and search it here, and we have a redirect for it even though we do not use it as a name. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:57, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ||
:::::I don't find it feasible anyone would search that specific convoluted and inaccurately-spelled laughing onomatopoeia, personally. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:07, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | :::::I don't find it feasible anyone would search that specific convoluted and inaccurately-spelled laughing onomatopoeia, personally. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:07, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ||
::::::"Soarin' Stu" is also a fan-name, originating from this wiki, that was used for multiple years. There's a realistic chance that people who don't know the proper name of the enemy will search it up. Nobody thinks that "Flatbush Koopa" is called "Ahehehauhe," and WildBrain has uploaded the episode under its proper title as well, which has more views (100k vs 4k). {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 17:26, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ::::::"Soarin' Stu" is also a fan-name, originating from this wiki, that was used for multiple years. There's a realistic chance that people who don't know the proper name of the enemy will search it up. Nobody thinks that "Flatbush Koopa" is called "Ahehehauhe," and WildBrain has uploaded the episode under its proper title as well, which has more views (100k vs 4k). {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 17:26, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ||
:::::::There is a possibility that someone would see the 'ahehehauhe' clip on YouTube and, not knowing the actual name of the episode, search for it here. [[ | :::::::There is a possibility that someone would see the 'ahehehauhe' clip on YouTube and, not knowing the actual name of the episode, search for it here. [[SMW:REDIRECTS]] states: ' If there's even a small chance that a redirect will help someone, it's not useless'. Also, while I've been using 'ahehehauhe' as an example, there are things like the alternative spellings seen in the subtitles, including 'Obi-Wan Toady', 'Light Plunger', and 'Red hot pepper detector', which aren't redirects even though they may be helpful to certain people, there would be no downside to having them and [[SMW:REDIRECTS]] says alternate name and spelling mistake redirects are fine. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 17:39, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ||
::::::::Agree with Doc con Schmeltwick's comment above. I sincerely doubt someone will look up WildBrain's channel, find an obscure, 14-second clip, then come to this wiki and input said name. They likely wouldn't even recognize the episode. {{User:The Mansion/sig}} 20:02, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ::::::::Agree with Doc con Schmeltwick's comment above. I sincerely doubt someone will look up WildBrain's channel, find an obscure, 14-second clip, then come to this wiki and input said name. They likely wouldn't even recognize the episode. {{User:The Mansion/sig}} 20:02, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ||
:::::::::The name of a short clip on YouTube doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would warrant a redirect either way. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 20:39, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | :::::::::The name of a short clip on YouTube doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would warrant a redirect either way. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 20:39, May 16, 2021 (EDT) | ||
::::::::::@The Mansion: My whole point is that they wouldn't recognize the episode, and thus would search for the clip's name. That's the purpose of redirects. | ::::::::::@The Mansion: My whole point is that they wouldn't recognize the episode, and thus would search for the clip's name. That's the purpose of redirects. | ||
::::::::::Even if we refuse to make 'ahehehauhe' a redirect, I think we should at least make the alternate spelling redirects since it is feasible that someone might think they are the correct spellings. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 02:37, May 17, 2021 (EDT) | ::::::::::Even if we refuse to make 'ahehehauhe' a redirect, I think we should at least make the alternate spelling redirects since it is feasible that someone might think they are the correct spellings. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 02:37, May 17, 2021 (EDT) | ||
===Combine the four pages on Mega Pi'illos into one "Mega Pi'illo" page and change the original four pages to redirects=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|8-0|merge}} | |||
The four pages about Mega Pi'illos ([[Cush]], [[Shawn (Mario & Luigi: Dream Team)|Shawn]], [[Phil]], and [[Lowe]]) are currently quite redundant. With the exception of just a few words (and the "Names in other languages" segment) , Cush and Shawn's pages are currently near-identical. Besides having a piece of trivia, Lowe's page is largely a shorter version of Phil's. The main body of all 4 pages consist of a single paragraph detailing the climb up [[Mount Pajamaja]] with regards to the Mega Pi'illos, to varying degrees of detail. Additionally, all four pages use the same artwork and claims it to be of the page's subject, despite the actual artwork being unidentified as to which Mega Pi'illo it is. | |||
I propose the four pages be combined into one page titled "Mega Pi'illo", rewritten to accommodate all four of them, and the four existing pages changed into redirects to "Mega Pi'illo." | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Casual Koopa}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': May 25, 2021, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Merge the four Mega Pi'illo pages==== | |||
#{{User|Casual Koopa}} Per my proposal. | |||
#{{User|The Mansion}} Lowe's article states he '''is encountered under circumstances nearly identical to Phil'''. That says pretty much everything. | |||
#{{User|PanchamBro}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} After looking at the pages I realise how similar they are, per all. | |||
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Repeated articles. I've also been wanting to work on Pi'illo species pages, such as [[Deco Pi'illo]]. | |||
#{{User|Keyblade Master}} Per all. I should point out that as of now, Pi'illo Master also has yet to be made into its own article. | |||
#{{User|RHG1951}} Much like the WarioWare duos, the Mega Pi'illos don't do anything without their counterpart. | |||
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Sure. | |||
====Keep the four pages separate==== | |||
====Comments==== |
Latest revision as of 10:14, April 19, 2023
Either rename Chanterelle to Pop Diva, or rename Master Poet to Simonrename Chanterelle to Pop Diva 5-2-1 Proposer: Archivist Toadette (talk) Rename Chanterelle to Pop Diva
Rename Master Poet to Simon
Do nothing
Comments
@Waluigi Time: Yeah, I guess the initial name of this proposal confused you a bit. Reworded for accuracy. (T|C) 17:31, September 21, 2020 (EDT) Upload images from the base game along with remakesimplement 16-0
Proposer: DarkNight (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsI think the proposal would be better worked out if it was drafted as a change to the image use policy. I think your points need a bit more fleshing out before we can officially apply it, since the title itself is a bit too vague for my tastes. There is a bunch of other articles that do bother me since they use images not in the original game, such as Super Mario Bros. and its use of All-Stars map images but I generally agree with the premise of the proposal nonetheless. Ray Trace(T|C) 18:11, September 23, 2020 (EDT)
Question, would you prefer the non-base game's image also in the infobox along with the base game's instead of being in the gallery? DarkNight 00:02, September 24, 2020 (EDT)
I recommend two template boxes next to each other or something like merging the two in a box if possible. -- HUMPNUT!!! 18:33, September 29, 2020 (EDT)
What happens when there are two or more products that can be considered the base game? Is the version with higher resolution given priority for the infobox or do both releases get an infobox image? An example would Captain Toad Treasure Tracker's Switch and 3DS release, specifically the Super Mario Odyssey based levels. Salmancer (talk) 16:38, September 30, 2020 (EDT) Super Mario Sunshine Minor LocationsSplit the minor locations from their respective episodes 6-0 Proposer: The Mansion (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsWill this proposal just cover SMS, or other games with minor locations deserving of an article that hasn't been created yet? DarkNight 23:42, October 23, 2020 (EDT)
Decide where to cover Cheese the ChaoCreate a new page for Cheese 4-0-0 Apparently the idea of renaming Cream's article to include Cheese was brought up before, but the proposal failed with what seems like some weak reasoning that basically came down to "He doesn't do much and Cream is the page's main focus, we don't need to rename the page"- despite the fact he was still covered there, and the page was treated like it was about both. Also, the example used to say that articles shouldn't be named after everything in them during that proposal is no longer valid, as the Crystal Bit has since been split from the Crystal King. At the moment, I can't list off every appearance that Cheese has in the series, as there are so many side modes and things where he could appear and I just haven't found him yet. I think he first appears in 2012, where he accompanies Cheese at times in the Wii version, and then appears with her in the story mode for the 3DS version, where they both only appear in one episode, but Cheese does have some of his own dialogue here (albeit limited to the word "Chao"). I don't think he appears at all in 2016, but he does return to accompany Cheese in 2020 (He even gets his own artwork in this game). There are also a number of references to him in the series, but I can't pick those all out right now. I think that there are three main ways we can go about this:
I've been thinking over how to get this done for a while, but I haven't been able to come up with a single answer, so I think it's time for a proposal so we can get this straight and work out the best way to get Cheese covered properly. Proposer: BBQ Turtle (talk) Create a new article for Cheese
Cover on Cream's page and rename itCover on the Chao pageCommentsI think the Chao's name is just "Cheese", hence "CREAM THE RABBIT & CHEESE" here. If it has its own article, it should probably be "Cheese (Chao)". Although, can we have an option for covering on Cream's page and not renaming it? Ditto for Froggy. Reason being that Sega doesn't usually give them separate character profiles. Also, if the Mario & Sonic series gets "full coverage", doesn't that mean Flicky and the like should have their own article too? LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:00, November 18, 2020 (EST)
I need to see a case that Cheese the Chao has to receive a separate article compared to the WarioWare pairing. I don't think it helps Cheese's case that the WarioWare series is granted full coverage, which didn't prevent Red from having his own page, while crossover scope is much more limited. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:22, November 25, 2020 (EST) Decide where to cover FroggyCreate a new page for Froggy 4-0 Proposer: BBQ Turtle (talk) Create a new article for Froggy
Cover on Big's page and rename itCommentsMake a category for actresses featured in the Mario franchise and in real lifeno change 1-7 I think a separate category for actresses would be good because there would be no pages for actresses in the Actors category, plus it would be helpful to people looking for just actresses by having that category available instead of having to search through the Actors category. Proposer: MightyMario (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsI think it's a better idea to rename the category, "Actors and Actresses" but personally, I view the word "actor" as a gender-neutral term. Ray Trace(T|C) 17:43, December 5, 2020 (EST)
Reorganization of Mario Kart sponsor listsreorganize 11-0 See, as of right now, one-time Mario Kart sponsors are listed in "List of sponsors in [name of game]", whereas recurring sponsors are listed in List of recurring sponsors in the Mario Kart series. While there's nothing inherently wrong with this form of organization, it still has one major problem: there could end up being so many recurring sponsors that the latter list couldn't possibly fit them all without becoming bloated and tricky to navigate efficiently. Fortunately, I have a simple solution in mind: I propose that all of the sponsors listed as recurring sponsors be moved back to the respective list articles of the games they debut in, and said lists be renamed to "List of sponsors debuting in [name of game]". That way, no list is any more exhaustive than it absolutely needs to be. Proposer: Archivist Toadette (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsSomething else I forgot to mention: Should this proposal pass, the recurring sponsors list will be retooled into a disambiguation-esque page entitled "Lists of sponsors". (T|C) 13:18, December 6, 2020 (EST) Delete “List of [TV show title] episodes featuring [Character]”keep all 2-4 Proposer: MightyMario (talk) Delete the articles and merge their content
Keep the articles
CommentsWhile I can see the case for minor characters such as Mouser getting merged, the reason those pages were created was to keep plot summaries off the page, with major recurring characters in mind. Perhaps there can be a case made for summarizing a role these characters get followed by a simple bullet list of episodes characters appear in however, in a similar vein to how Skewer has a bullet list for all official Super Mario Maker courses it appears in. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:39, December 20, 2020 (EST)
I feel like articles for major such as List of The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 episodes featuring Mario are acceptable due to the length of their original articles, though a major issue I see with the pages currently is that the sections seem to describe the full plot of the episode, rather than just the character’s role. I feel it would make sense to keep major character pages and rewrite them to focus on the character, though one page that I’ve always been unsure of its necessity is List of DIC cartoon episodes featuring Hip Koopa, since none of the other Koopalings have an article like it, and there is not much information on it. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 18:12, December 20, 2020 (EST)
Allow/create categories for images and media by websiteallow Category:YouTube Images and create further image/media categories by website 6-0-0 The proposal exludes media ripped from official game websites, as these are more suitable to be categorized by related game. Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk) Create categories for specific websites; include only images from official or approved accounts
Create categories for specific websites; include any image that originates from these websites (personal images, 'Shroom images, video screenshots of officially unapproved uploads etc.)Non-thumbnail screenshots of DiC cartoons uploaded by DVD distributors like WildBrain will not receive a website category, as their content largely overlaps with unapproved uploads. Delete Category:YouTube Images and don't create any further website categoriesCommentsItalics formatting of boat names, fictional products, and othersdon't change 8-12 LinkTheLefty, however, argued these points:
I hope I have accurately summed up LinkTheLefty's points. If I have misrepresented their comments or left out any important points being made, please let me know. I, however, disagreed, arguing the following points:
My proposal is to amend our Manual of Style to add italicizing titles not already mentioned in our Manual of Style, but outlined in the MLA guidelines. We should have it be policy to italicize ship names, play names, artwork, web publications, and anything else not already mentioned in our Manual of Style. If MLA is not relevant, then we should be at least following a bit of what Wikipedia does, as we're an internet wiki that is designed similarly to Wikipedia. We also must include names of fictional elements such as fictional books, fictional games, and so on. I believe this is simply just a policy update to keep up with increasing standards with this wiki over time. Even if this proposal is rejected, there has to be some clarification of what should not be italicized, and if it is rejected, I'm going to try to get a discussion running on what we can agree should not be italicized. Proposer: Bazooka Mario (talk) Change the guidelines
Do not change
CommentsAlex95: According to guidelines, this won't lead to italicizing shop names and locations as they're not normally italicized. See Wikipedia as a bit of a guide to see how things will get italicized (note that ship names are indeed one of the few things not in the big list of long works that are italicized). There seems to be a reasoning behind the italicization of ship names (here). Whether a work is fictional or not seems irrelevant, as, again, I cite List of implied entertainment. Keyblade Master: There has to be a reason Kingdom Hearts Wiki does this? Why can't MarioWiki do it? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 18:42, December 12, 2020 (EST)
@Glowsquid: How is following some of Wikipedia's guidelines "fundamentally offensive" to you? This proposal doesn't automatically call for a sudden following of Wikipedia standards to the letter. (T|C) 14:09, December 16, 2020 (EST)
Rethink our approach for Smash Bros coveragecanceled by proposer Another big problem is we have huge articles such as List of trophies in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U that cover a lot about Smash Bros. than Mario itself. I am aware that Mario's huge presence in Smash Bros. warrants this series to be on this wiki, but there needs to be huge changes to how we cover this series. There are several methods that I propose:
These are various methods to take under consideration. Our coverage for Smash Bros. will have to be addressed. Proposer: PanchamBro (talk) Narrow Smash content to only fighters
Leave all Smash Bros content alone and focus on brevityDo nothingCommentsSplit the tour appearances of every Mario Kart Tour courseSplit tour appearances, formatting course titles with console prefixes 8-1-0 Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk) Support (format course titles with console prefixes like in the game)
OpposeCommentsWhile I do support doing this to courses with many tour appearances, I do think that there should be a certain amount of tours that a course would have to be in to split. This is because splitting the page when the course has only appeared in one or two courses is silly: doing it only after it appeared in four or more tours would make more sense. Doomhiker (talk) 19:27, February 25, 2021 (EST)
I feel like we'd run into the same problem, but on a different page. Using the Mario Circuit 1 example, there are fourteen charts with many images on them. I realize the point of this is to move the load times (which don't seem that bad) off the main Mario Circuit 1 page, but I don't feel like there's enough content to really justify doing so. Not like how Gallery:Mario was split, which is just... really large no matter what you do with it. Regardless, if it does get to that point, we already have a policy page that agrees with you. 00:30, February 26, 2021 (EST)
I'd get rid of the "show" collapsibility, too. We don't do that for tables and it just forces users to click on an extra link, especially unnecessary on a page dedicated to tour appearances. Unless this was already in mind. Mario JC 06:36, February 26, 2021 (EST)
Decide where to use pre-release and unused content imagesuse indicators for pre-release images 0-15-0-0
I propose four options on how to handle this:
Proposer: Scrooge200 (talk) Option 1Option 2
Option 3Option 4CommentsRemove non-Mario characters from the trophies, Assist Trophy, stickers, and Spirit pagesdon't remove 13-10-0-18 Basically, the longest page on this wiki as of this proposal is List of trophies in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U - something about a game which isn't even part of the Mario franchise. That's pretty insane. We have several lists, such as the Spirit page, the Assist Trophy page, the Sticker page, and the lists of trophies in _ game, which give coverage to each and every single collectable that is a part of their respective groups, even if they have absolutely nothing to do with the franchise. We don't need this. It unnecessarily bloats the pages with information not related to the wiki itself, and would make it harder for readers to access the information actually pertinent to the franchise and in turn, the wiki. No one would go to the Mario Wiki to find out what Ghirahim's spirit does. If they did, they would just go to a Smash Wiki. Basically, this non-Mario related list content just makes these pages filled to the brim with non-pertinent info that would just make a page harder to load for those who want to find actual Mario related info on a Mario Wiki, and not info about a million other gaming franchises. In short, what I propose is the following: That any list information that isn't pertinent to the Mario or related franchises would be removed. This will affect the following pages, under this proposal:
This will not affect:
Additional notes:
Edited notes:
Proposer: Doomhiker (talk) Support (including the removal of non-Mario fighter spirits, trophies, etc)
Support (excluding the removal of non-Mario fighter spirits, trophies, etc)
Support (excluding any spirits, assists, etc of subjects we already have individual pages for, such as Knuckles, fighters, and Blinky)Oppose
Comments@Waluigi Time We shouldn't not do something because another wiki is lacking. In addition, I do see any reason to stop at removing info if there's no reason for the info to be on this wiki in the first place, and it's not like we haven't removed swaths of non-pertinent info in the past (like with how we previously had a ton of Banjo content). Doomhiker (talk) 17:19, February 28, 2021 (EST)
While I prefer the second option over outright removing everything, since there's no reason not to keep information on subjects we cover, after all, I can't see it working out too well... Crossover characters can gain relevance to the Mario franchise at any time, either through becoming a fighter or other means, and if we give them articles then we'd also have to dig up all of the Smash info we used to have for that character and restore it, and possibly end up missing some along the way. Additionally, this option only makes exceptions for non-Mario fighters. What about characters like Knuckles? He's not a fighter but still has a page. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 17:53, February 28, 2021 (EST)
Would this proposal impact the Subspace Army article? It is not specifically listed, but I feel the "Basic troops" section of the article is a similar situation to the List of Smash Run enemies article. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 19:56, February 28, 2021 (EST)
In addition, this doesn't really affect other crossover content. As you stated, that page notes that Smash content is treated differently. It wouldn't look weird to treat this differently from Fortune Street and Mario & Sonic: those two are crossovers much more exclusively focused on the two franchises represented, compared to Smash which not only covers dozens of different franchises to different degrees but is altogether its own thing, with a good amount of original content and characters. You could very much classify Smash as its own franchise independent of any individual ip represented, compared to Fortune Street which is very much only a Dragon Quest and a Mario game, not part of an independent franchise, if that makes any sense. If anything what looks out of place is the sheer amount of content we have with other franchises which have absolutely nothing to do with Mario, though I understand that's a different topic for a different proposal. Doomhiker (talk) 09:10, March 1, 2021 (EST) In the case of Trophies, Stickers and Spirits, I can agree to that. Mii Fighter costumes, maybe too. But I feel Subspace/Smash Run enemies could remain, as they have a more involved role in their respective modes. That’s just my opinion on this topic. Tails777 Talk to me!
Right, I'm not quite sure where to vote here yet, but I wanted to ask some questions about some of the unusual cases that I don't think have been covered in the proposal as it stands (If I've misread the proposal and it is included, or I just haven't understood it right, please let me know):
I might still be missing some stuff, but I'd at least like to know what the plans are for stuff like this, as if this isn't thought out there's going to be a big mess to clean up if it comes to execution time, and I don't think we want to have to set up another load of proposals just to sort through the case by case ones. BBQ Turtle (talk) 16:29, March 1, 2021 (EST)
So here's the issue I have with the Assist Trophy page in general being trimmed, a bit more fleshed out after having thought about it for a while. Short of failing entirely, this proposal will remove certain characters from the Assist Trophy page entirely. Now here's the issue: We have a page for an item that can be used by Mario franchise characters that no longer fully explains what the item does. You could argue the item's sole function is "spawns a character" and stop at that, but that only opens up more questions. What characters? What do they do? I see no benefit to ignoring Assist Trophy characters for the sake of "not Mario". I also feel the same way about the Pokemon, though I think it could be beneficial to heavily trim that page and just merge it to Poke Ball. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 16:50, March 1, 2021 (EST)
"The fighter pages. Even if the trophy/list pages have non-Mario content removed, any spirit or trophy info on any fighter's page will still remain."
With all due respect to Doomhiker, and my opposition to the premise aside, this proposal is very flawed. To my knowledge, there was not any discussion anywhere else prior to this being proposed, and it shows. There's already been a lot of confusion and disagreement about what should and shouldn't be included in this proposal that could have easily been cleared up if this was discussed. Furthermore, this proposal was originally and still is being purported as "smaller-scale", yet is quickly snowballing out of control into an all-encompassing blanket proposal that, as far as I can tell, is now affecting the majority of our Smash coverage, for the most part only stopping short of pages that would be deleted entirely. (And I take serious issue with this as well - several of these subjects have been added after many users already voted and aren't comparable with what was already included in the proposal, which while allowed, is a very bad idea for something as delicate as Smash coverage.) Many of these subjects simply aren't at all comparable with each other and have been tossed in with no regards to their effects on gameplay, and some of Doomhiker's statements make me believe that this ignorance of gameplay is by design, which I find very concerning. Even trophies, stickers, and spirits, some of the most closely related things on this list, aren't 100% comparable. Trophies are a bit easier to deal with since they're really just collectibles, but what about non-Mario stickers that have effects on Mario characters specifically, or non-Mario spirits that have Mario characters in their spirit battles? How are we supposed to organize those in a way that doesn't immediately appear awful and inconsistent to our readers? tl;dr This proposal, while claiming to be "smaller-scale", is far too broad and trying to clump together too many unrelated subjects. I strongly suggest either canceling this proposal for the time being and starting a discussion instead to iron out the issues, or opposing it for the same reasons so we can come back to it later. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 11:23, March 2, 2021 (EST)
I think ultimately, the fact that the Mario representation in Smash covers four separate franchises, countless subseries, and a disproportionately large amount of every smaller factor of each of the games that saying "not Mario related" to any portion of it is incredibly shortsighted. As mentioned, Mario characters can already use the items/spirits/stickers/whathaveyou, and honestly, considering unlike any other franchise represented, the representation in question is so large it can't just be summarized in a few sentences, that not going all the way with explaining it is doing nothing but a disservice to our readers. And whether they'd look on Smashwiki or not is irrelevant; not only are we not at all bound by what a separate wiki does, but Smashwiki is a totally different animal full of fan jargon, other fan-related stuff, and absolutely no consideration for casual players of the game. So no, removing that stuff from here, where it is written in a way normal people can understand, is a shortsighted thing to do that will do nothing but leave behind a bunch of glaring half-articles that won't look good no matter how you slice it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:39, March 2, 2021 (EST) My concern is that deleting so much Smash content without relocating it elsewhere will result in a lot of wasted time & effort. As Doc said, SmashWiki is filled with fan jargon & does not neutrally accommodate for both causal and competitive players. Personally I'd want an alternative Super Smash Bros. wiki for the content to be relocated to (honestly an alternative for any big Nintendo franchise in the Mario Wiki format would be nice) so that all this content isn't wasted and so it can reach its potential. Results May Vary (talk) 15:24, March 2, 2021 (EST) @Waluigi Time, all the options in here have something in common; they're lists with some Mario content, but heaps of completely unrelated fluff. It's far from too broad: I specifically designed this to avoid affecting stages, fighter pages, the game pages, and to avoid having any item page deleted. There's been years' worth of discussions about this and related subject; no need to delay it more. I'm not cancelling. I did not say that stickers should be kept; I made it clear that stickers that do absolutely zilch when it comes to the franchise (not being equip able by Mario characters, as unlike spirits or assist what sticks can be removed is fighter-specific, or not being from the actual franchise. Removing non-Mario items makes sense. We're the Mario wiki, not a Smash wiki, not a general video game wiki. Like, if we for some odd reason we had a page on Sonic Adventure because of some dated policy, would that be called removing content for the sake of removing content? We can't just cover anything we feel like covering; there needs to be limits, and imo the wiki is still passing those limits.I'm also not trying to devalue anything; we just aren't the type of wiki which needs this stuff. @Doc Smashwikis problems are shortcoming should have no effect on what we do with this wiki. We shouldn't keep unneeded content just to make up for an unrelated shit wiki, as we don't exist to make up for other wikis' shortcomings. In addition, a Mario Wiki article with only Mario content isn't going to leave "half-articles", it'll leave articles which are complete in the context of the Mario Wiki and the Mario franchise. It's not shortsighted to say that Akira, a character that has zilch to do with the franchise besides for appearing in a game in a completely different franchise, is unrelated to Mario. "not going all the way with it" isn't going to disservice our readers; this is a Mario Wiki, so we only need to cover the actual Mario content, doing so isn't "going halfway", and it's not like Smash games are Mario games. @RMV, again, the failings of other wikis shouldn't effect our own wiki. It's not wasted effort; anyone can go and look up the revision history and copy-paste templates if they're really desperate. It's a wiki, some content, no matter what, will end up being deleted or edited to the point of being unrecognizable. Doomhiker (talk) 17:57, March 2, 2021 (EST)
So I have to ask, why should Smash take a backseat to other crossovers anyway? There's a lot of franchises represented in Smash, sure, but that doesn't at all diminish the prominent role the Mario franchise has in it. It's just as important as any other franchise, and in all honesty probably way more important than the majority of them because, well, it's Mario. I would argue that "too many franchises" alone being the reason for not covering it is getting dangerously close to the practice of not covering things because there's "too much information". And at that point, what even determines if there's "too many franchises"? The amount of franchises represented in the game alone? (And in Smash's case specifically, how would this be determined? Do random games getting, for example, a handful of trophies or spirits but nothing else, count toward the total? Or is it only franchises that have fighters, stages, and items? Potentially only some of those criteria?) Is it the percentage of Mario content in the game? (Again, how would this be determined? Only certain types of content? Absolutely everything in the game?) And how would either of these standards not be completely arbitrary, especially when software updates or DLC can skew these numbers at any time? Or are there no standards whatsoever and it's just some sort of gut level feeling? (Probably not the best way to run a wiki especially if you at all value consistency) This doesn't just affect Smash, realistically it affects our coverage of crossovers in general. Would we axe a good chunk of our Mario & Sonic coverage if they added a third franchise to the mix? If not, what about a fourth or a fifth? How arbitrarily big does a crossover have to become before we decide "nah, this isn't important enough to Mario anymore"? Will we ever get a crossover even close to as big as Smash again for any of what I said to even be important? Highly unlikely, but these are still questions that should probably be answered. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 10:49, March 3, 2021 (EST)
@7feetunder: The "other NIWA wikis don't do this" argument has been used many times before and the response is always we don't base our content on other wikis. Do you care to expand on why you think following in the footsteps of those other wikis is worth emulating here? -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 11:31, March 4, 2021 (EST)
If it helps any of you feel better, I've been hard at work relocating the content (and rewriting) to another wiki (CC-BY-SA compatible) over the past week. Might not be the correct place to mention this, but I can see that Smash coverage is a divisive issue on this wiki, likely in part because some have been used to it on here for several years. Results May Vary (talk) 09:25, March 12, 2021 (EST)
Glowsquid's commentI wasn't sure about posting this comment since it's really more about my thoughts about the wiki's coverage of Smash in general rather than the specific points discussed in the proposal, but clearly it's what this comments section turned toward so whatever. At least I'll have something I can link back to. A Mario crossover vs a adjectiveless crossover I don’t feel Smash is the same thing as other crossovers featured on the wiki like the Mario & Sonic series, Fortune Street, etc. For Mario & Sonic, the pitch is having Mario and Sonic together, characters with a certain real-world history, is the core premise of the game. Something like Fortune Street is a bit more distanced because it was a long-running franchise before its Mario installments,, but even then a short research on the source series history show earlier installments did not have branded characters sot at least for Fortune Street and its DS predecessor specifically, the combination of Mario and Dragon Quest in a board game is the draw, and thus is makes sense to cover the game in full since Fortune Street is a game that has Mario at the core of its DNA, ie it’s a Mario crossover. By contrast, the pitch for Smash Bros. is not “Super Mario vs everything else”, it’s ‘’Nintendo crossover’’ . Since Mario is Nintendo’s mascot franchise and one of its biggest and most financially successful, there’s obviously a lot of content mined from Mario and its derived series… but not so much it can be said the basis, or cornerstone of the crossover nor is there any authorial statement it is foremost Mario with the other franchises along for the ride. Oh yeah, the name. It’s probably true ‘’Super Smash Brothers’’ was specifically meant to riff on Super Mario Brothers, but one could just argue it was done for the pun rather than to highlight Mario is meant to be the star of the show. I don’t feel it changes what I argue above. On cascading coverage and why I think our way of covering Smash Bros. goes into nonsense territory Smash Bros is a very modular game with a lot of content and mechanics that interact with each other. Currently the thinking is -> Mario characters are playable in the game (and there is other Mario stuff) -> The game gets a page (that part I don’t object to) -> The other characters/items/stages that are not from Mario also get a page, because Mario characters can fight those characters or use those tiems. It’s all quite logical on the surface The comparison I’m about to make is quite niche and certainly painfully nerdy, but I feel it’s the one that most directly describe the way we do things right now and why I think they’re flawed: Let’s imagine for a moment that there is a wiki on the Mobile Suit Gundam media franchise (there’s one, but picture one that is more exhaustive and like us in term of coverage). Now a good Gundam wiki would cover the Super Robot Wars franchise: for those not familiar. Super Robot Wars is a long-running series of crossover video games that combines multiple franchises from the mech genre in turn-based strategy games that link all those franchises in one continuous storyline (usually). It makes sense: while Gundam is not the basis of the crossver (just as how Mario isn’t really the basis of Smash Bros.), the original anime and its countless sequels and alternate universe spinoffs makes up a large chunk of Super Robot War’s content, so it makes sense to talk about it. However, if that Gundam Wiki applied the same logic to Super Robot War as we do to Smash Bros, it will go a lot beyond just talking about Super Robot Wars as it is relevant to Gundam. It would have individual pages on the mechs, characters, locations fictional concepts, etc. of other massively popular franchises like Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Mobile Police Patlabor, Neon Genesis Evangelion, the original characters and storylines of Super Robot Wars itself and countless other properties not mentioned, not just because the fictional storyline of Super Robot Wars have those properties intersect, but because the format of Super Robot Wars means you can have the robots from Gundam fight the robots from Macross in the game’s turn-based battles and that counts as an interaction, just as we justify having a page for Joker Persona 5, not because that character has any substantial narrative or real-world ties to the Mario franchise, but because he is playable in a crossover video game Mario also appears in, and Mario can punch him. Now consider there are well over a dozen of Super Robot Wars games (though granted a subset of it only features the series original characters), exhaustive coverage would mean you end up neck-deep into complete nonsense territory, with well over hundreds of articles on robots, characters, lore etc, that ultimately don’t have any link to the Gundam franchise beyond that they appear in a crossover game, not a Gundam game, but a crossover game that Gundam appears in, taking the warped view that Super Robot Wars is not a crossover game that includes Gundam content, but a Gundam game that includes other fictional franchises. And I can take the analogy further: just as some users here appeal to keeping Smash Bros content not necessarily because of its relevance to Mario but because the existing Smash Bros resource is arguably lacking in certain regards, some users in this hypothetical Gundam wiki scenario could feel that, because of Wikipedia being what it is and the lack of dedicated ressources for the more obscure properties represented, the state of the matter would mean that the Gundam Wiki’s would ironically have the best pages on certains characters, etc, and even if a page on the protagonist of Detonator Orgun does not further the reader’s understand of Gundam as a fictional universe or real-world media franchise, that it should stay as an useful ressource to the western mech fandom. But the "we shouldn't base ourselves on other wikis" goes both ways; just as the fact NIWA wikis don't cover Smash Bros anywhere as rigolously as we do is not an argument in itself for scaling back our coverage, the feeling that the main Smash Bros ressource is lacking in some respects is not an argument to keep it either. I was going to leave it at that, but the exchange featuring 7feetunder made me wonder... if we have page on Smash-exclusive characters on the basis of "Well you can fight those characters and pick up those items while playing as Mario characters", then for what reason really do we make a distinction for those EA gamecube games. The Mario characters in SSX and NBA Street V3 are just as fully realized as the other playable characters and not segregated to their own mode, meaning they can trade hoops and fouls just as well. Those games being released on other systems do not change that. Bring on the Shaquille O'Neal page I say! --Glowsquid (talk) 11:32, March 6, 2021 (EST)
Move animal names from the Donkey Kong Country series to just their normal namesrename 8-1 Proposer: Keyblade Master (talk) Support
Oppose
Comments@Results May Vary: You need to state your reason for supporting this proposal. (T|C) 16:18, March 22, 2021 (EDT) @Hewer: Except "Princess Peach" is used all the time, whereas "Rambi the Rhino" is barely ever used. Nightwicked Bowser 16:40, March 22, 2021 (EDT)
@Keyblade Master: Not to mention the Luigi's Mansion Portrait Ghosts. Green Star 19:10, March 28, 2021 (EDT) "Place Categories" Or "Location Categories"withdrawn by the proprietor (see comment) Would you prefer every instance being referred to as Category:Locations, or Category:Places? Or do you believe this is unnecessary and prefer neither option? I would prefer the first option as way more categories are referred to as locations rather than places, and would be easier and more efficient to enact. Sorry if the phrasing here is awkward. I'll be working on my previous proposal in the meanwhile. Proposer: The Mansion (talk) Locations
PlacesDo NothingComments@Hewer: I think there could be another proposal on whether or not to move List of places to "List of locations", which if "Locations" is chosen for the categorizing would keep the consistency in the terms. -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 18:27, April 8, 2021 (EDT) Do not use closed captions 1-17
Everyone else in the discussion, however, disagrees and wanted me to make this proposal. This also applies to all of the captions for the other two cartoons, which is the reason I put it here. Reminder that WildBrain has access to all of DiC's assets. Proposer: Grandet Omate (talk) Agree
Deny
Comments"WildBrain [...] made captions for the all of the Mario cartoons." Do you have evidence of such? As far as I know, closed captioning is done either by the network itself, or by third-party contractors hired for that purpose (as is the case of Netflix) --Glowsquid (talk) 19:29, April 13, 2021 (EDT) @Alex95: "Ahehehauhe" refers to this 14-second clip from Flatbush Koopa. It's clearly not intended to be an alternate title for the episode and I really question whether or not we need the redirect. I guess someone might see the video, not know the episode, and try to find it here by searching that? -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 19:49, April 13, 2021 (EDT)
WildBrain uploaded "Rock TV" yesterday. The end of the description contains the text "Main article: The Legend of Zelda (TV series)," which confirms they're stealing stuff from wikis. It also describes the Super Show!, despite this being an episode of Super Mario World. And we can't forget Ahehehauhe and Evil Dinorsaur. Scrooge200 (talk) 20:15, April 13, 2021 (EDT)
Nobody ever agrees with me online. You guys might as well just pass this as failed. Nobody ever even listens to me and nobody can tell me otherwise. Grandet Omate (talk) 23:30, April 13, 2021 (EDT)
(I'd partially support in the case of spellings that have no known, official alternatives.) LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:13, April 20, 2021 (EDT) Apply usual naming rules to Mario Kart course namesfailed 2-5
The guideline enforces a compromise between our general naming rules and Nintendo's own in-game convention of affixing a console abbreviation to classic courses. In the case of Mario Kart 8 courses, it specifically requests using a game abbreviation as an identifier, whereas another rule states we should generally use the expanded form of the game's title. Neither part of this guideline appears to be justified, they contradict other rules, and read like a remnant of the wiki's bumbling pre-2010 days. This proposal aims to make our naming rules consistent across the board, applying a "race course" or expanded game-of-origin identifier to Mario Kart course articles instead of the aforementioned. Doing this would prevent confusing situations such as the article for the Donut Plains 1 racetrack from Super Mario Kart being notated “SNES” despite the other Donut Plains 1 subject also originating from an SNES game. Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk) Support
Oppose
Comments@Hewer: The current naming scheme is confusing by all accounts. The proposal was updated to address your statement. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 11:25, May 15, 2021 (EDT) It is the way it is because Nintendo is essentially providing an identifier for us when they do retro courses. If a person is playing a newer game and look up a retro course, they will probably search how it is shown in the game (e.g. "SNES Rainbow Road") and if they see the article title as "Raindow Road (SNES)" on Google, that makes a lot of sense. "Raindow Road (Super Mario Kart)" isn't great because it doesn't match that extra piece of info Nintendo is attributing to the course, the user might not even know the title for the SNES game, and the course isn't just appearing in Super Mario Kart - it's appearing in the newer game as well. --Steve (talk) 11:40, May 15, 2021 (EDT)
I don't want to lose the "SNES" element in the article title for retro courses since I definitely consider that to be part of the official title, as well as for purposes of SEO and people finding the article they're looking for. Here is my counter-proposal: For tracks which have appeared as retro courses, move them to "SNES Donut Plains 1" format. That doesn't conflict with the level since it's a different title. For the rest, use traditional game identifiers. This creates an inconsistency from track article to track article, but I believe it is the most technically correct solution based on how Nintendo names them, and it eliminates the "MK8" guess. --Steve (talk) 15:23, May 15, 2021 (EDT)
Citing WildBrainDo not allow WildBrain to be used as a source 0-2-14 However, although we may have disallowed using the closed captions as a source, we still have areas of information that directly source themselves to WildBrain. Similar to how we prohibited using the English Super Mario Encyclopedia over similar issues, we should disallow the usage of WildBrain as a source for these reasons I listed above, and therefore our sources for the Super Mario cartoons should only pertain to the staff involved with the cartoons and DiC Entertainment themselves. Proposer: PanchamBro (talk) Allow all parts of WildBrain to be used as a sourceAllow some parts of WildBrain to be used as a source
Do not allow WildBrain to be used as a source
CommentsI think we should allow WildBrain's names to be redirects since the whole point of redirects is to be helpful to readers and there might be some readers who would find those redirects helpful. For example, someone might see the 'Ahehehauhe' clip on YouTube and search it up here in search of information on the clip without knowledge of the episode name. Otherwise, I understand why we decided not to cite WildBrain, but I think that we should adjust our naming policy to specify that WildBrain can't be cited after this proposal (depending on its result) like we did with the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 15:02, May 16, 2021 (EDT)
Combine the four pages on Mega Pi'illos into one "Mega Pi'illo" page and change the original four pages to redirectsmerge 8-0 I propose the four pages be combined into one page titled "Mega Pi'illo", rewritten to accommodate all four of them, and the four existing pages changed into redirects to "Mega Pi'illo." Proposer: Casual Koopa (talk) Merge the four Mega Pi'illo pages
Keep the four pages separateComments |