Talk:Reissue

(First topic)

Hmmm I never noticed before but why does Doki Doki Panic have a page but not Panel De Pon?- User:Zedxclon

Italics?

Should the game titles included in parentheses be italicized? The titles that are just being listed look fine as they are, but for the Mario Bros. section, SMA and M&L:SS look wrong without being italicized, seeing as they're not listed, but part of a statement. However, that might end up looking inconsistant instead, and I don't think italicizing everything is the right way to go either. Thoughts? - Walkazo 20:54, 13 May 2009 (EDT)

New! Play Control?

How are those game remakes? They're port with tacked-on waggle if anything. --Glowsquid 16:13, 7 September 2009 (EDT)

The rewrite of the article

I began a rewrite a long time ago. As you can see, I have not completed it. Here is a couple of things that needs to be done:

• add the platform and the release date of the reissues and original games
• explain why each game is considered a reissue
• move all the "Others" in the appropriate subsections.
• know if Tetris DS is a remake
• know if we can talk about BS Panel De Pon - Event '98, a remake of a "game not originally in the Mario series

If you'd like to help, you can do one of these things.
Banon (talk · edits) 12:00, 20 August 2013 (EDT)

Might need some images as well and an overall organization. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:37, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

Yep. I had began something... but I haven't finished. My idea was that every reissue was sorted by kind of reissue (remake, port...), and then, by date. Do you want another organization?
Banon (talk · edits) 17:17, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

Mario Golf (GBC) isn't a reissue. It's a completely different game to the N64 original. Giffy Stylish! 11:21, 27 December 2013 (EST)

You're right, I've removed it.
Banon (talk · edits) 12:38, 27 December 2013 (EST)

Misuse of "reissue"

Why the change from "Remake" to "Reissue" for the category? I'm pretty sure the latter is now being used wrongly - a "reissue" is something sent back out in the world with few or no changes - the Virtual Console versions of most games, for instance. Whereas the 1994 Game Boy version of Donkey Kong is (for the first four levels) a remake of the arcade Donkey Kong, not a reissue or port (hell, the NES version is a remake too, owing to the legal fighting over who owned the source code).

Basically:

1. A game allowed to go out of print and then brought back out is a reissue.
2. A game given new packaging (e.g., Player's Choice) is a reissue
3. A game emulated directly from the original code (e.g., Virtual Console, the Wii disc version of Super Mario All-Stars) is a reissue.

A game recoded, redesigned or upgraded is not a reissue. It may or may not be a remake, but it's still a different thing and shouldn't be on this page or category. For instance, In no way, shape or form is Super Mario Bros. Special a "reissue" of Super Mario Bros. in any way that Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels isn't. It isn't even a remake, it's a different game that shares some features. [Frankly, I'm not even certain there needs to BE a "reissue" page.]

(There are also partial remakes embedded in other games too - the Throwback Galaxy from Super Mario Galaxy 2, and the first star in particular, is a remake of Whomp's Fortress from Super Mario 64.) - Reboot (talk) 21:15, 1 January 2016 (EST)

I removed the fals SMB Special listing and I agree the current name isn't ideal, but I do think there needs to be a page making a distinction between the different types of "When a game is rereleased or remade in some form". What do you propose as a term that englobes everything the current page covers? --Glowsquid (talk) 21:40, 1 January 2016 (EST)

If we're just talking about the distinction, I would do it on a remake page.

If you want a list page of all games which have been rereleased, ported ("enhanced" or emulated) or remade... hasn't virtually every Mario game that Nintendo owns the right to rerelease BEEN rereleased in these days of download/Virtual Console releases? Games which have been remade or radically changed in some way in the rerelease (All-Stars, DK94, Game & Watch Gallery, Mario Advance, SM64 DS, etc) have something to discuss. Games with straight reissues/rereleases can just be categorised as such, and listed on the page of the reissue brand, like Player's Choice or Virtual Console. - Reboot (talk) 22:49, 1 January 2016 (EST)

The Virtual console ports only get a very brief section called "Virtual Console" which incites the reader to go to the relevant article to see the Games ported. Other ports are worth mentioning, even though in most cases, there is not much to say about the differences. Renaming the page "Remake" would be a mistake, but I agree "Reissue" isn't perfect. For reference, see this forum thread and User:Banon/Work for the current organization of the page
Banon (talk · edits) 07:57, 2 January 2016 (EST)

category of remakes

I think more research needs to be done to find out which titles were remakes. just because a lot of changes were made does not necessarily mean it is a remake. the only indicator is if the game was built from scratch or not. I have said many times that games such A Link to the Past/Four Swords and The Wind Waker HD are erroneously labeled as remakes when clearly they are not. Final Fantasy 3 and 4 on the DS were remakes.
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by KingArgorok (talk).

I think the way this page is organised is a bit screwy, but I don't think the code basis should be the *sole* indicator of if something is classified as a remake or not. If it was, the GBA versions of the Donkey Kong Country games would count as remakes. --Glowsquid (talk) 08:57, 11 January 2018 (EST)

If that it the case then a game coded from scratch even if it is similar is a remake. it all depends if it was built from the ground up or not.
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by KingArgorok (talk).

do your research before placing titles in these categories

Before considering which titles belong in each category, do your research on the history of its programming and where the source code originally came from because a remake is not a game that was simply changed. By that logic, the star wars special editions would be considered remakes, which they are not.
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by KingArgorok (talk).

A film remake is not the same as a video game remake. According to wikipedia, "A video game remake (also called a remaster) is a video game closely adapted from an earlier title, usually for the purpose of modernizing a game for newer hardware and contemporary audiences. Typically, a remake of such game software shares essentially the same title, fundamental gameplay concepts, and core story elements of the original game." Therefore, the Star Wars Special Editions are not remakes, as you say, but games such as Super Mario 64 DS are.

Ultimate Mr. L (Talk-Contribs-Stats) 09:33, 11 January 2018 (EST)

P.S. Telling someone to "do their research" is rather rude and condescending.

That information is wrong. A remake means it must be coded from the ground up. You are using a source that is not necessarily reliable. I have been in the Zeldawiki (now Gamepedia) and they agreed with me that A Link to thr Past on the GBA was an enhanced port. I am telling you to do you research because you are relying on bad sources.
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by KingArgorok (talk).

Zeldawiki is unreliable at times too, due to their circumnavigation of adblock, and the arbitrarity that the Link to the Past enemy "Coppie," called identified with the previous enemy "Goriya" in the west, is together with Goriya on that site, but "Zazak," an enemy identified with "Daira" in the west, does get its own separate page. Either way, we are not them. They are all similarly-defined terms, and what one community decides shouldn't affect another. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:08, 11 January 2018 (EST)

that it the case then a game coded from scratch even if it is similar is a remake

I don't think this is the most (or even a) popular definition for video game remakes nor is it a pertinent way for us to classify things and organise information. I'll elaborate why below.

That information is wrong. A remake means it must be coded from the ground up. You are using a source that is not necessarily reliable. I have been in the Zeldawiki (now Gamepedia) and they agreed with me that A Link to thr Past on the GBA was an enhanced port.

Out of curiosity, what makes this user-generated fan encyclopedia more reliable than the more generalist user-generated online encyclopedia? Especially since you haven't actually provided any authority proving your claim video game remake = exclusively refers to new code.

As far as I know, there's no universally-accepted ~supreme video game authority~ providing the one true definition of gaming terms. So, as with every words in the english language, the usage determines the meaning. Let's look at other websites atempt to define what a video game remake is (and yeah, I'm sure some will jeer at the notion of TV Tropes or Giant Bomb's userwiki being video game authorities, but I have no idea what would count as a "reliable source" in this case).

• Wikipedia: "A video game remake (also called a remaster) is a video game closely adapted from an earlier title, usually for the purpose of modernizing a game for newer hardware and contemporary audiences. Typically, a remake of such game software shares essentially the same title, fundamental gameplay concepts, and core story elements of the original game. [...] A remake offers a newer interpretation of an older work, characterized by updated or changed assets.[citation needed] A remake typically maintains the same story, genre, and fundamental gameplay ideas of the original work.[citation needed] The intent of a remake is usually to take an older game that has become outdated and update it for a new platform and audience.[citation needed] A remake may also include expanded stories, often to conform to the conventions of contemporary games or later titles in the same series in order to make a game marketable to a new audience."
• Giant Bomb: A broad spectrum of games can be described as remakes, from straightforward graphical overhauls to extensive revision of gameplay and story elements. In the most basic sense, a remake keeps the original's core gameplay and plot but makes significant changes to peripheral aspects.
• TV Tropes: " As computer technology and game design is constantly evolving, many titles may start to look and play extremely dated in comparison to what's available, say, five to ten years after its original release. So what's a developer to do? Easy: take the original game, upgrade the visuals so that they're on par with the current standards, add a few more recent gameplay mechanics, maybe fine-tune the levels a little, and presto, now you can convince the consumers to buy basically the same game they bought five to ten years ago! [...] Distinct from the Updated Re-release, because that's merely rereleasing the same game with modest additions and improvements, whereas this is recreating the entire game from the ground up on new technology"

So yeah, the recurring elements are 1: new version of a game, 2: has redone grafx, 3: is released some time away from the base game. 4) (usually) has a lot of new stuff. While the Wikipedia and TV Tropes pages mentions "has redone code" as an element, neither make it a core element of the definition. Another reason why I think using exclusively the "it has redone code" criteria is that it would result in a lot of old-school video game ports to be classified as "remakes". To take a non-Mario example, the Sega Saturn version of Quake was made in a completely different engine from the original PC version. It also has a new modest amount of new content, but nobody calls Saturn Quake a "remake" due to its close release to the original version and general straightforward transposition of the game. A "remake" usually implies some prolongated lapse in time from the original game as well as sizable amount of redone assets or new content.

Furthermore, "just do more research on where the code comes from" is a pretty silly suggestion, because it's realistically infeasible most of the time. Access to the code or the ability and ressources to reverse-engineer it is essentially unavailable to the outstanding majority of anyone who would edit an online fan wiki, and it's impossible for most people to access Nintendo employees who worked in a notable capacity on the major Mario games. Anyone who does have access to them will ask questions about say, the upcoming Super Mario Odyssey 4, not if Super Mario All Stars share a codebase with the NES version of SMB3. I also don't think shared quirks or bugs are necessarily an indicator game as particularly iconic or amusing non-breaking bugs may deliberatly be maintened in the new version or are the results of matching the physics/etc. properties of the original game as closely as possible. --Glowsquid (talk) 16:04, 11 January 2018 (EST)

?

Why is the article under construction? SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 09:17, February 21, 2023 (CST)

Include remasters as a main category

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

no change 1-4
Here's a recap for you. During the Nintendo Direct on June 21, 2023, a reissue of Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon was officially announced. During the Nintendo Direct on September 14, 2023, the game was officially entitled Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, making it a high-definition remaster. One year later, more information for Luigi's Mansion 2 HD were revealed during the Nintendo Direct on June 18, 2024, and Donkey Kong Country Returns HD, a high-definition remaster, was also announced during that presentation. As a result, I was wondering if there's a possibility to add remasters as one of the main categories. So far, there are five main categories of reissues: remakes, ports, enhanced ports, re-releases, and retools. However, once the proposal to include remasters as a main category of reissues passes, then we'll be able to include remasters as one of the six main categories of reissues. That way, we'll be able to add the "Remasters" section, which will consist of both one sub-section for Luigi's Mansion 2 HD and one for Donkey Kong Country Returns HD.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: August 15, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal

Oppose

1. Hewer (talk) Both of these games are already in the enhanced ports category, and I don't see what about these two games specifically sets them apart from everything else.
2. Arend (talk) Aren't remasters essentially enhanced ports, anyway? The article states "An enhanced port is a game released on a later platform than the original game, bringing more changes than a standard port, but is not built from scratch." I mean, that's basically what happens when you remaster a game too, right?
3. Jdtendo (talk) Not only is the term "remaster" ambiguous (see the Comments section below), having a dedicated category for "ports more involved than straight-up ports but less than enhanced ports" would be too much hair-splitting and too contentious (e.g., would New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis be considered an enhanced port or a remaster?).
4. Power Flotzo (talk) Per all.

Comments

In what way is a "remaster" different from an "enhanced port"? Jdtendo^(T|C) 11:50, August 1, 2024 (EDT)

Remaster/remake usually has noticable graphical changes. Enhanced ports are nearly the same as the original game but with typically more content, see Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 00:25, August 2, 2024 (EDT)

There still appears to be a distinction between "remaster" and "remake" which makes me think remasters are interchangeable with enhanced ports instead. The thing about remasters is that the game's source code remains the same as the original (like a port) but has received several touch-ups to look presentable on a current-day console, while a remake has been built completely from the ground up. This makes it seem that a remaster is much closer to an enhanced port if anything. rend (talk) (edits) 01:21, August 2, 2024 (EDT)

Without access to the source code, a nigh impossible task, I think it's difficult to ascertain what fits in the definition of "same source code" and what exactly we mean by "built completely from the ground up"; I do expect code to be recycled like any other asset. As the discussion above notes (Glowsquid with the Quake example), it's sometimes not as simple as it seems. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 01:30, August 2, 2024 (EDT)

I suppose that if there's disagreements on whether a remaster is either a remake or an enhanced port, then the idea of this proposal should be opposed on regardless since there doesn't seem to be a general agreement on what exactly a remaster even is (and whatever it actually may be is most likely redundant anyway). rend (talk) (edits) 10:59, August 2, 2024 (EDT)

I actually think "remaster" is interchangeable with "remake" and people are trying to make distinctions that don't really exist. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 00:23, August 2, 2024 (EDT)

"Remaster" is pretty much meaningless industry jargon that has little difference than a remake, so I wouldn't support a distinction. Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 00:41, August 2, 2024 (EDT)

While we're at it, where did the idea to use "reissue" come from, anyway? It's not a very common term. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:56, August 4, 2024 (EDT)

What other term is there to encompass all of the categories covered on this page? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:19, August 4, 2024 (EDT)

I made a poll on the SMWiki Discord with the question "In the context of video games, what is a remaster?". The results are: 5 votes for "a simple port with enhanced graphics" (which seems to be the definition used by this proposal), 4 votes for "an enhanced port", 2 votes for "just a synonym for remake" (which is Mario's definition above), and no votes for "a remake but based on the original game's source code". Some people said that "remaster" is actually a broad term that can describe any reissue more involved than a straight port (and maybe less involved than a remake). Jdtendo^(T|C) 09:27, August 5, 2024 (EDT)

Classify Luigi's Mansion 2 HD and Donkey Kong Country Returns HD as remakes

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

canceled by proposer
It's been five months and a day since last proposal was declined, so I've come up with a new proposal, this time to classify Luigi's Mansion 2 HD and Donkey Kong Country Returns HD as remakes rather than enhanced ports. I don't think the way Luigi's Mansion 2 HD and Donkey Kong Country Returns HD are classified as enhanced ports of Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon and Donkey Kong Country Returns respectively makes any sense. That's because remakes differ from enhanced ports, as remakes of original games that are rendered in standard-definition (SD) can be rendered in either SD (as in the Super Mario Advance games) or high-definition (HD; as in Luigi's Mansion 2 HD and Donkey Kong Country Returns HD). As such, enhanced ports of original SD-rendered games retain their SD rendering (i.e.: Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D retains the same SD rendering as in Donkey Kong Country Returns), while enhanced ports of original HD-rendered games retain their HD rendering (i.e.: Poochy & Yoshi's Woolly World retains the same HD rendering as in Yoshi's Woolly World). With that being said, enhanced ports of original SD-rendered games are never rendered in HD. Once this proposal passes, we'll relocate the Luigi's Mansion 2 HD and Donkey Kong Country Returns HD subsections from the enhanced ports section to the remakes section.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: January 30, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: Relocate to remakes section

1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal

#Rykitu (talk) Per proposal, they barely add anything to their original counterparts.

Oppose: Keep in enhanced ports section

1. PopitTart (talk) Huh? Being uprezed in no way automatically makes something a remake. The wiki defines remakes as "a re-released game often built from scratch usually long after the original game, on a new system". Neither Luigi's Mansion 2 HD nor Donkey Kong Country Returns HD are rebuilt from the ground up. They are the same games, being displayed in higher resolution. If that means they count as remakes, then every game on Nintendo 64 - Nintendo Switch Online is a remake. "Enhanced ports" is fully apt; they are ports of the original code which are then enhanced with improved graphics and other QoL features.
2. Arend (talk) Remakes are built from scratch and feature enhanced and updated graphics, and typically an updated soundtrack too. These games, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD and Donkey Kong Country Returns HD, are NOT built from scratch: they're the exact same games as they were on 3DS but with higher definition graphics and textures to befit the Switch resolution. They're remasters (and their respective articles calls them as such), a.k.a. enhanced ports; they're fine here.
3. Sparks (talk) Remakes are typically built from the ground up, with entirely updated graphics, music, sound effects as well as additional content. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) and Super Mario RPG (Nintendo Switch) are remakes because they have all the features listed above. Luigi's Mansion 2 HD and Donkey Kong Country Returns HD simply have slightly improved graphics but lack everything else, making them ports rather than remakes.
4. Technetium (talk) Per all.
5. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) They're absolutely not full-on remakes.
6. Rykitu (talk) Fixed my vote after once again misunderstanding the proposal.
7. Jdtendo (talk) Barebone HD remasters aren't remakes.

Comments (reissue)

@Rykitu: ...Shouldn't a remake, by definition of this Reissue article, add even more to a game than an enhanced port/remaster already does? If it barely adds anything to their original counterparts, then it's FAR from a remake at all. If it adds even less than a remaster or an enhanced port, then we don't call that a remake, but a regular port. rend (talk) (edits) 16:19, January 16, 2025 (EST)

Also, seems GuntherBayBee hadn't really learned anything from the last time he wanted to split LM2HD and DKCRHD from the enhanced ports list. Even less, in fact, since with the last time he at least wanted to make "Remasters" its own category, instead of reclassifying them as straight-up remakes. The heck? rend (talk) (edits) 16:22, January 16, 2025 (EST)

Speaking of remakes, we use the term "built from scratch", "built from the ground-up". What exactly does that mean? There's an extensive comment by Glowsquid in the above section tells me that that phrase doesn't really have much strong bearing.[1] It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:24, January 16, 2025 (EST)

In this context, we assume a reissue not being "built from scratch" would mean either emulation, or recycled source code; whereas one being "built from scratch" is effectively using a different/new engine to mediate the remake. Given the nature of the Mario series being primarily console games, it is far, far more common for a reissue to be built from scratch with a new or different engine (e.g. those Mario & Luigi remakes from the post-Switch 3DS era that use Dream Team and Paper Jam as a basis), and the few that don't are just emulated (e.g. various Virtual Console releases.) ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 17:43, January 17, 2025 (EST)

(was canceled but will comment anyway) Is there a way to demonstrate a game was built from scratch? On strictest terms, I hardly believe any given Mario game was built from scratch (Odyssey has plenty held over from 3D World, which in turn reused from 3D Land, and so on; it doesn't make much sense to build from scratch). And some ports rely on running on entirely different engines (Super Mario Bros. 3 on the Doom engine) than standalone sequels. Even when games are seemingly similar, there's no guarantee how much the code is reused or not (New Super Mario Bros. 2 might use an entirely different engine than New Super Mario Bros. U). I don't think the phrase (built from scratch) is useful for differentiating remakes. Instead, I think a substantial graphical change helps define a remake, with "substantial" being subject to interpretation, but Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, if it has better lighting, better textures, better models, more animations, and so on (and it's a game from a portable system adapted to a console; the two are entirely different computers), it should qualify remake. A "remaster" is mostly industry jargon that isn't substantively differentiated from "remake". From my understanding, an enhanced port would be using the same graphics but has additional content, such as Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk)

Move Super Mario 3D All-Stars to Enhanced ports

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Don't move 3-7
This is what the article says it changed: reworking control schemes and some assets to work with the Nintendo Switch, and visual improvements such as high definition graphical resolution, updated textures, and widescreen support

Proposer: Martendo (talk)
Deadline: May 13, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: Change to enhanced ports

1. Martendo (talk) Per proposal.
2. PopitTart (talk) Doesn't seem any less "enhanced" than Luigi's Mansion 2 HD. The game is also specifically noted as being partially native.
3. Jdtendo (talk) Per PopitTart.

Oppose: Keep as re-releases

1. Altendo (talk) Regardless of whether there are improvements, it's still emulation. Regardless, in terms of re-releases, "the games behave almost exactly like they do on original hardware, and do not include any major content changes or additions. Features extrinsic to the game may be added to enhance the release, such as save states, game soundtracks, or online multiplayer features."
2. EvieMaybe (talk) per Altendo, it's just 3 ROMs in a trenchcoat
3. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
4. Yoshi18 (talk) Per Altendo.
5. YoYo (talk) regardless of what is believed to be "enhanced", the line "is running on emulation" is what is most important here.
6. Nelsonic (talk) This game functions in the same manner as Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition, running via emulation. I believe people have been able to poke around in the files enough to find working standalone ROMs of Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, and Super Mario Galaxy.
7. Rering644 (talk) Per all other Oppose votes.

This article has a lot of things that bug me

This talk page or section has a conflict or question that needs to be answered. Please try to help and resolve the issue by leaving a comment.

I don't know how to properly organize these so I'm just going to start listing things.

1. How is Mario Bros. Returns a remake, while the Famicom version of Mario Bros. is just a port? From what I can tell, the former is built upon the latter, both of which were coded from scratch for Famicom hardware.
2. On top of that, there is no way the various releases of Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. to Atari consoles and PCs and Famicom/NES are ports.
3. Are the Super Mario Advance games really remakes? They seem to be pretty directly based on the Super Mario All-Stars versions. The distinction should at least be explained.
4. Dr. Mario is listed as having a Game Boy port of the NES, despite that not being how ports work like above, and both versions released 'the same day in Japan. There's no reissue here, its a dual release!
5. "Retool" is an... odd word choice for the category. They're reskins.
6. Why is "re-release" the term for emulation? All of these games seem like re-releases to me, it's straight up a synonym of reissue. Issued again. Released again.
7. Is Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS really an enhanced port? I genuinely see it as a distinct game given it has an entirely new and exclusive campaign of 100 levels.

Sorry this is just kind of a list of complaints, but I really feel like this article needs work and I have no idea how to improve it myself. --PopitTart (talk) 17:00, April 29, 2025 (EDT)

i would consider Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS a "parallel version". the game itself is as similar as it can be, but the bundled levels are different. what that falls under, i don't know, but calling it a "distinct game" seems wrong when the game itself is quite literally marketing itself as Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS. — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 18:26, April 29, 2025 (EDT)

Sorry to piggyback off this, but this came up in the Discord and we figured we'd mirror our thoughts over here for those who weren't there. To be honest, this entire page is just kind of a mess--and has been since it received that construction notice... Gosh, twelve years?! Entire eras of wiki staff have come and gone, there are people that are admin now that weren't on the wiki when that notice was added, and this page has become a ship of theseus from its format when that notice was added, and nobody's figured out a better solution to this? This... This is absurd.
Honestly, a lot of our points boil down to two things: hinging definitions on "source code" is fundamentally flawed and hinges on an idea of programming that is just not how it works in reality (Most ports don't re-use source code. That's... Why they're ports. Plus, if "use of original source code" was the determining factor in a game being a "port", a lot of ports aren't actually ports at all, but remakes; not just for the Mario series, but for every video game ever.), and the entire concept of an "enhanced port" is extremely confusing, and does more harm than good. If we had to recreate the system from the ground up, it would be be a little something this--we're honestly tempted to propose this, though some aspects are subject to change:

• Ports: Replicas of other games, made for different hardware, and made to be as accurate as reasonably possible. Differences are mostly born from hardware limitations, both in terms of culling things for weaker hardware (hi 50m in DK), or improved visuals for stronger hardware. We don't know enough about stuff like Luigi's Mansion 2 HD or DKCR on Switch to know if there are any additions to them that would put them into "remake" territory? Dr. Wario, Flyswatter, and Sheriff from WWI:MM go here. (Also, nuts to "enhanced ports"--ports is ports now. Some people use "enhanced port" to describe a remake that only changes a small amount of things, when that really shouldn't be the case. Also, this will account for any case where a port actually has to cull content for hardware reasons, and another port adds it back; you don't need to worry about distinguishing between a port, an enhanced port, and a "dehanced" port; you just have. Ports.)
• Emulation: We're unsure if we should put these with ports or as their own thing? We're just gonna give them a bullet point here for now. Playchoice-10, Nintendo Power service, and Masterpieces would go here.
• Remake: Re-imagining, recreation, "new and improved", whatever you want to call it, this is a version of the game that explicitly seeks to add onto the base game with something new, while not being just downloadable content for the old title. Your All-Stars, your TTYD remake, your Super Mario Advances. The pair of Bird & Beans/Paper Airplane Chase shouldn't be in "other", it should go here. Wi-Fi Taiō Yakuman DS is more-or-less Yakuman DS but with Nintendo WFC, that's adding onto the basegame, it goes here; yes, a remake for the same console, note the exact phrasing that it's "an updated version of the game that seeks to add new content to the base game without being DLC". Excitebike: Bun Bun Mario Battle Stadium and Oven de Cookie go here too. In the discord conversation, we originally put "Enhanced Ports" here.)
• Multiplatform Releases: ...this is not a re-issue. this isn't "re", it's simultaneous. get outta here Japanese home computer games by Hudson Soft, get outta here Dr. Mario, get outta here Tipping Stars, and no smash 4 isn't a reissue of itself. These shouldn't be here in the first place.
• (Retools also dies because it's two games (Tetris Attack and SMB2) and also see next bullet point)
• Lastly, "Miscellaneous" (NOT Other) section, for games that really don't fit anything at all, and giving the rundown on what their deal is. SMB2 and Tetris Attack go here now, being reskinned versions of pre-existing games. All Night Nippon isn't here, as it shuffles levels on top of the visual tweaks. And Maker for 3DS goes here until it can make its mind up. This section should be used sparingly; plenty of titles that should be elsewhere, are randomly lumped in here instead for seemingly no reason.

We're open to feedback on this before we potentially draft an actual proposal for this, so let us know if there's anything you'd want changed. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 01:23, May 6, 2025 (EDT)

Re: "using source code". Do you know what kinds of games actually do reuse source code? Sequels! You know, the types of games people would *never* argue are ports or remakes! So yeah, axe that definition from the page entirely, plus most of the time, we actually don't have access to the source code of the games but a compiled version of it: why do you think the internet exploded when, despite years of reverse engineering Super Mario 64, that game's source code got leaked? I'd also agree with you on axing "enhanced port" (what, they're just gussied up remakes) and "retool" (which the term doesn't actually exist). For "emulation", probably should be listed as their own thing as they're virtually unchanged from their original counterpart, just being ROMs for old games, and they're absolutely not a port or a remake in terms of how they are run. Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 13:07, May 6, 2025 (EDT)

Oh, gosh, we realize this isn't exactly what you mentioned, but "reusing source code in sequels" just made us realize how reused engines would work under the current system. No. Good lord, no. We need to avert that one at all costs. (Also, to clarify; are you suggesting emulation gets treated akin to Multiplatform Releases, where those would be removed from this page?) ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 17:55, May 6, 2025 (EDT)

Move the Super Mario Advance games to the enhanced ports section

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Saturday, November 15, 2025, 04:16 GMT

These games really don't seem like remakes to me, and I've noticed that the individual pages for the games (except the page for Super Mario Advance) call them simply "reissues". And I'd also like to bring up the descriptions of these games on Game Boy Advance - Nintendo Classics. Super Mario Advance's description on there calls it an "enhanced version", NOT a remake. Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3 has its description call it a "re-release", and the description of Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3... well, it says nothing about it being any sort of reissue. And now, Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2. This game's description DOES call it a remake, but is the only one from the Super Mario Advance series to be called a remake on the Switch Online GBA service, and in my opinion, this could have been a simple oversight, and it wouldn't be the first time Nintendo said incorrect info that was also on the wiki. And, just like the section above says, they do seem to be based on the Super Mario All-Stars versions.

Proposer: Martendo (talk)

Move Super Mario Advance to the enhanced ports section

Deadline: November 28, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Martendo (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

1. Super Altendo Advance (talk) New graphics, music, even voice clips, yeah, this seems like a remake. That and the Super Mario Advance 2 description. With the definition of "Remake" being very blurry, and other remakes like Super Mario Bros. Deluxe and Luigi's Mansion for the Nintendo 3DS being arguably even more similar to the original version than these games are, I don't feel like moving this to the "Enhanced port" section would do this any good. Plus, even if Super Mario All-Stars also counts as a remake, games can get multiple remakes (like the Super Mario Bros. example I brought up earlier). I think keeping it as "Remakes" is the best option here.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) Ignoring how we kind of just dislike the term "enhanced port" altogether (it keeps being used more-or-less as "remake that doesn't change much", when that is painfully subjective), even with the explanation of Nintendo's own descriptions for the titles... Yeah, no, see Altendo's vote. Being based on the Super Mario All-Stars versions when that game is unambigously a remake is good enough for us, even if there's multiple degrees of separation by that point.
3. Hewer (talk) I don't think it makes much sense in this case to analyse the exact (inconsistent) wording used in some descriptions from Nintendo because there's not really a widely agreed on definition for these terms, they're pretty unclear and ambiguous. There's no specific threshold at which an "enhanced port" becomes a "remake", and the terms are applied somewhat arbitrarily on this wiki as is, so there's no reason to expect Nintendo to use the terminology in the same way we do. Sometimes the terms can even encompass each other (the wiki defines "remakes" as a subset of "reissues", so there's no inconsistency with saying that these games are both). And ignoring the one source that does say remake as an "oversight" when the others aren't even consistent with each other either makes no sense to me. This just feels like a bit of a meaningless semantics argument.
4. Rykitu Advance (talk) Per all.

Move Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2 to the enhanced ports section

Deadline: November 28, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Martendo (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

1. Super Altendo World: Super Altendo Advance 2 Per above.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per our vote for the first one.
3. Hewer Deluxe (talk) Per my other vote. And some additional points: these games all have completely redone graphics and such, which I thought usually meant "remake", and I don't understand how them being based on All-Stars changes anything, they're still remakes in relation to the original games (and this only applies to 2 of the 4 games anyway).
4. Rykitu World: Rykitu Advance 2 (talk) Per all.

Move Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3 to the enhanced ports section

Deadline: November 28, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Martendo (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

1. Altendo's Island: Super Altendo Advance 3 Per my first vote.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) While this one isn't based on Super Mario All-Stars, the unique levels alone justify things, we think. (Plus, it would be a tad strange to say Advances 1, 2, and 4 are remakes, but slap 3 with an "enhanced port" label.)
3. Hewer Deluxe HD (talk) Per my other votes.
4. I oppose. ILoveBFDI1215 (talk) 14:34, November 14, 2025 (EST)
5. Rykitu's Island: Rykitu Advance 3 (talk) Per all, especially Camwoodstock on this one.

Move Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3 to the enhanced ports section

Deadline: November 28, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Martendo (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

1. Super Altendo Advance 4: Super Altendo Bros. 3 Ditto.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per our vote for the first one. Plus, if unique levels alone could justify being a remake for Yoshi's Island, this has that covered handily.
3. Hewer Deluxe HD Definitive Edition (talk) Per my other votes.
4. Rykitu Advance 4: Rykitu 3 (talk) Per all.

Comments (Move Super Mario Advance games to the enhanced ports section)

@Altendo How is the 3DS Luigi's Mansion remake more similar to the original Luigi's Mansion than the SMA games are to their original versions? That honestly doesn't make sense to me at all. --Martendo (talk) 09:27, November 14, 2025 (EST)

"However, the characters (except for Toad, Gooigi, and Polterpup) still use their voice clips from the original game rather than their new voice clips, and the music remains unchanged. Among the new features, the remake includes a map that appears in the bottom screen of the Nintendo 3DS, as well as a redesigned Gallery with a Boss Rush mode that allows players to battle against already defeated portrait ghosts. The game can be played in single player or multiplayer alongside a slime-themed Luigi, named Gooigi, brought from the future by E. Gadd."

"It is based on the Super Mario All-Stars remaster [I think this should be changed to "remake" as well], and also contains a remake of the original Mario Bros. arcade game. Super Mario Advance includes many new features, gameplay mechanic changes, graphical and audio enhancements, and stylistic and aesthetic alterations from the All-Stars edition, with the most significant changes being the addition of the enemy Robirdo, a robotic Birdo, replacing Mouser as the boss of World 3; the addition of the "Yoshi Challenge," in which players may revisit stages to search for Yoshi Eggs; a new point-scoring system; multiple hit combos; enlarged sprites; and digital voice acting."

I think these two paragraphs show the vast amount of differences the remake has compared to the original, even compared to Luigi's Mansion, and the changes to Super Mario Advance are much more comparable to Super Mario Bros. Deluxe, and both remakes of Donkey Kong Country. Altendo 09:38, November 14, 2025 (EST)

@Camwoodstock I think you accidentally misplaced your vote on the fourth decision? If not, you can reply to this comment. Altendo 12:28, November 14, 2025 (EST)

Whoops. Our bad. (We were just waking up...) ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 15:08, November 14, 2025 (EST)

@ILoveBFDI1215 That's not how you format votes, and you must have a reason for your vote as well. --Martendo (talk) 14:39, November 14, 2025 (EST)