Talk:Wish

Main Image

I was thinking: in Paper Mario I belief the camera goes close up in one scene to show Princess Peach making a wish. A screenshot of that or a sprite of her wishing might be a nice way to visually represent the article. Stumpers! 16:04, 29 January 2009 (EST)

Definitely. -- Son of Suns (talk)

That's not a bad idea. Perhaps we can also add a section for the Beanstar.--Ladies-Man1 (talk) 10:08, 16 February 2014 (EST)

What do any of you think?--Ladies-Man1 (talk) 12:39, 5 June 2014 (EDT)

Is it just me or is that "characteristics" section ridiculous

Like, really. --Glowsquid (talk) 22:29, 23 March 2014 (EDT)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA XD you're so funny, MarioWiki._{That beginning paragraph, too.} It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 22:36, 23 March 2014 (EDT)

Wow.

This article is worthless. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 02:26, 4 December 2015 (EST)

So, I removed the deletion tag for a couple reasons. First, please mark pages for 'request delete-request' instead of 'delete-request' if a final decision hasn't been made. Second, while I agree that this is a fairly poorly written article and a fairly broad subject, the contents far exceed the examples given. Monarchy was hardly a paragraph long and made no attempts to really make sense of itself, happiness was longer, but pretty much restated information from other, better articles. This one shows signs of actual work being done on it and the concept of 'wish' is seen being handled in a very tangible way across the series. Simple, I'm not satisfied with the deletion rational of "ahahahahaha, it's horrible", so how about we get some more community input on this one. -- Ghost Jam 01:24, 6 December 2015 (EST)

Just to be clear with things: what's the difference between {{delete-request}} and {{delete}}? There's no clearly defined method for implementing these templates as far as I know, but I've viewed {{delete-request}} as a "some editor thinks it should be deleted and you should check the talk page" and {{delete}} as "it's going delete-request and here's why". EDIT: Even after I've reviewed our deletion policy to check if I missed anything, there still isn't a clearly defined methodology. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 01:22, 7 December 2015 (EST)

I'm actually going to bring this up other staff members in a bit, but there was intended to be a clear definition between the two templates that seems to have not been formally added or acknowledged (before the community was what it currently is, the rules lists were fairly short and the senior editors was a small enough group that they didn't need to be reminded, making a detailed list was done years after the fact). Simply, there are three: Delete, To Be Deleted and Requested for Deletion (I can't find the template for this one off hand, but the category is active, which is what I use). Delete and To Be Deleted are virtually the same thing and I think we talked once about merging them. To Be Deleted means "A decision has been made by the community/sysops per view/Steve, this need to be removed." while Request for Deletion means "I/We feel there is a problem here and I/We would like to discuss removing it from the wiki." -- Ghost Jam 15:55, 7 December 2015 (EST)

I was going through the stuff earlier today, actually (after seeing this section), and it's just a two-tier system. Category:Pages requested to be deleted corresponds to {{delete-request}} (as does Category:Talk delete-request, when the template's used on talk pages), while Category:Pages to be deleted is {{delete}}'s category. {{delete-request}} and its categories are sorta like {{merge to}}, {{move}} or even {{talk}} in that it's flagging articles for discussion (in this case, about potential deletion) with no actions taken towards making that happen yet (i.e. no link updating), whereas if {{delete}} is being used, it's a done deal: the page is already orphaned (ideally) and ready delete-request as soon as a sysop wanders by. - Walkazo 16:08, 7 December 2015 (EST)

Works for me. It's more for the deleting ops to know than the individual user. I tend to look an article over before deletion if it's not something obvious like left overs from a move or some such. -- Ghost Jam 18:28, 7 December 2015 (EST)

So I assume in the end, I was using it properly, aside some snark? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:56, 7 December 2015 (EST)

Yes, but even if I had known that I still would have brought it here before deleting. -- Ghost Jam 22:25, 7 December 2015 (EST)

Delete this article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

canceled by proposer
This article has several problems.

The beginning quote has little relevance to the subject; the subject is intended to be a super power exercised by powerful beings. The wish in the quote is not referring to the power being discussed in the article, and it's intended as motivation and hope. It's not a good sign when a bad quote is used, and the rest of the article isn't good at all either.

The article is poorly written. That in of itself wouldn't be grounds for deletion, but there is not much to write on when it comes to wishes, giving rise to a poor attempt to make wishes tangible aside from being a plot device (also, note the images are only there because a plot Macguffin is related to wishes), which includes padding, which this article has a lot of. Due to the nature of wishes being plot devices, the article must write entire synopses on two games (and it sometimes makes an attempt to speculate and connect them; "How the Star Road is connected to these events is unknown."; "The exact relationship between the two locations is unknown, but it is possible they are deeply intertwined.")

The "characteristics" section is crufty. Most of Star Rod's information, for instance, has more to do with the item itself rather than wishes. If the mechanisms of granting the wish resulted in different results, it perhaps should have a section, but the results are always the same: therefore, this section has little to do with wishes in question and really more to do with the things granting the wishes.

The biggest problem is its subject matter itself: it is a vague, generic, intangible subject. There is nothing special or different about wishes in this article, evident by lines such as "the power of wishes has existed in some form since the beginning of time" and "while anyone can make a wish, the ability to grant that wish usually resides within a powerful being, artifact, or location". Like a dictionary, it defines whatever a wish is and goes on from there. Wishes themselves in this article at best serve ultimately as an otherwise function-less plot/motive device (involving plot MacGuffins) such as with the now-deleted Princess Peach's voice. Finally, nobody actually makes a wish that gets granted in either of the games; Bowser attempts it, but uses a Star Rod to make himself invincible. Even if actual wishes are granted, it wouldn't be good enough for an article. What would make wish an article is if wishes were a central game mechanic, e.g. Mario uses wishes to defeat enemies, get items, heal HP, get allies, destroy obstacles, and they're called "Wishes". Sure, Mario makes a wishing motion when he uses Star Storm, but those already have a name: special move.

To make an analogy, creating an article on Wish is similar to creating a full-fledged article on Dream because Bowser prevented people from dreaming in Mario Party 5 by attacking Dream Depot. Finally, the arguments provided in the deletion of Princess Peach's voice work for this: a plot device, but wish fares even worse because wishes dealt in Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario are generic and not Mario-y.

Proposer: Bazooka Mario (talk)
Proposed Deadline: December 20, 2015, 23:59 GMT
Date Withdrawn: December 10, 2015

Support

1. Bazooka Mario (talk)
2. Marioguy (talk)
3. LudwigVon (talk) Per proposal.
4. Roy Koopa (talk) I call it a "fluff article." We have no use for fluff articles here.
5. Chocolate Mario (talk) Does nothing but state the obvious. Per all.
6. 3D Player 2010 (talk) per all.
7. Magikrazy (talk) I assumed this article was a list of wishes found on Star Hill in Super Mario RPG. Turns out it's even more useless. Per Bazooka Mario.

Oppose

1. Glowsquid (talk) The article as it is right now is poorly-written and stupid, no disagreement here. However, as Ghost Jam pointed out above, the concept of wish as real, tangible things that affect the plot and the character is an actual plot device that's treated with some degree of consistency in the Mario RPG games. The article would require an overhaul, but I feel there's a valid subject in there.
2. Tucayo (talk) - Per Glowsquid and Ghost Jam. It's better to tag it with {{rewrite}} and try to fix it than outright deleting the article.
3. Andymii (talk) Per Glowsquid. Over and over again, I've held it a principle that we should consider fixing before deleting, and this is a perfect example. I agree this initially sounds like a useless article, but as said, it's a major plot point. Other silly things have articles too; I mean, we even have a page on Mario's head.
4. Walkazo (talk) - Per Glowsquid and Ghost Jam's comments in the above section. I was on the fence when this was brought up on the forums, since these sorts of deletions often don't sit quite right with me despite the crappiness of the pages. However, I was able to come up with a draft of the page that doesn't suck, so knowing that it can be done, I agree that we should fix the article instead of just scrapping it.
5. Ghost Jam (talk) Per all.
6. Tails777 (talk) Ghost Jam, Glowsquid and Walkazo
7. RandomYoshi (talk) – There's no sense in deleting an article if it can be improved, which Walkazo just did. Per all.
8. Marshal Dan Troop (talk) Per all.

Comments

After seeing Ghost Jam's comment, I was going to suggest adding a part on Mariowiki:Good Writing about poorly-written, didactic openers on pages such as this and Gravity that obscure why the page exist and why it's a valid concept to cover on the wiki, until I saw this TPP was underway. Bah umbug. --Glowsquid (talk) 13:46, 7 December 2015 (EST)

Glowsquid: how would the overhaul look like, though? If I had to rewrite it at gunpoint, I'd begin with with "Wishes are a central plot point in Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario. Star Haven in Super Mario RPG converts them into Wish Stars and Star Spirits grant them." The poorly written nature of the article already makes it difficult to get a approach, and even my own attempt doesn't satisfy me. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:55, 7 December 2015 (EST)

it's finals week for me so I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to provide a sample of what I thounk it shoud like until like, after the end of this TPP. yuck. --Glowsquid (talk) 20:11, 7 December 2015 (EST)

Usually that's how I feel when TPPs I disagree with happen at inconvenient school times... Anyway, I did have some free time, so here's what I came up with as a draft - hopefully it's along the lines of what you were thinking? Basically, no more Son of Suns-style cruft, plus some new TTYD info. Can't remember off the top of my head if SPM had any wish bsns too, or just the love stuff, but anyway, you still get the picture. - Walkazo 00:19, 8 December 2015 (EST)

I'd be in favor of deleting the Mario's head article too. 3D Player 2010 15:14, 8 December 2015 (EST)

On a similar note... Door. I refuse to believe that is the only significant use of a door in the entire franchise (Hell, Mario Maker...). - Reboot (talk) 18:29, 8 December 2015 (EST)

It's not the fact that the article was badly written that motivated me to vote deletion, it's all the things Bazooka Mario (talk) mentioned about the subject merit that does it for me. 3D Player 2010 14:59, 9 December 2015 (EST)

Need

Is this article really needed? It feels a bit like a relic from the really early days of the wiki, akin to Happiness. It's mostly devolved into a list of every time characters mention wishing or wish for things in the franchise. Scrooge200 (talk) 17:41, January 23, 2025 (EST)

Peach using it in conjunction with a star character is a recurring theme, having been done with both Twink and Starlow (with multiple occasions for the latter). There's definitely some amount of recurring concept here, but I'm not sure where to draw the line. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:15, January 23, 2025 (EST)

Let's think about why Vim is kept. It's tangible and harvested in factories, used in a boss fight to heal. Do wishes have a tangible gameplay and story purpose? It seems a heck lot more abstract vs Vim which is seen in liquid form. The current article is not great? It apparently has improved since due to Walkazo's attempt to rewrite it, but years later, I'm reevaluating it, and it's still not great to me. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:35, January 23, 2025 (EST)

We could honestly go either way on this. Given Vim does still exist despite the fact we still don't see why that gets to stay when Happiness doesn't, it's not that farfetched, but also... This is definitely a lot closer to Happiness than it is to Vim. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 15:04, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

The fate of this article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

delete 9-6
The existence of this page has been debated for ages, with the last proposal on it being nearly 10 years ago. As such, I think it's high time for a second go at things.

To summarize the main argument for its deletion (I do suggest reading up on the discussions above): wishes are too abstract. Much of the page consists of listing anytime someone wishes for something. That said, there is merit to keeping the page, as wishes are often plot points and/or gameplay elements (and the instances listed here certainly seem to relate to these, at least to me). And of course, the article can certainly be improved if it is kept.

Proposer: Technetium (talk)
Deadline: June 9, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Delete article

1. Camwoodstock (talk) We've never really been a fan of "extremely vague bodily concept given a page" trio (Vim, this, and the long-since deleted Happiness). Either it's way too laser-focused on exactly one game (like Happiness was), or it's just kind of wishy-washy and covering anything that could vaguely be considered a wish (like this is). If this really had to stick around, it should seriously just be trimmed to Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario. At least this has the excuse that it is somewhat plot-linked like Vim is? But then we also nuked Happiness when it's the driving force of Yoshi's Story, so, nevermind.
2. Xiahou Ba, The Nasty Warrior (talk) I only know one thing. I want to kill Chaos. I need to. It's not a hope, or a dream. It's like a hunger. A thirst.
3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock and Xiahou Ba. This is the MARIO wiki. Not a wiki for thoughts or feelings.
4. Nelsonic (talk) Per all.
5. SComic (talk) I feel like we know what wishes are, as the use in Mario are basically the same definition we use in real life. Per Camwoodstock, this isn't a main mechanic like jumping is, it's a vague plot detail that is used in the same context it is in real life. The information used right now is all stuff you could find in other articles, and I really couldn't see how it could be improved upon. With things like the energy from the tree in Mario and Luigi Brothership, it at least makes sense to have an article because it is exclusive to the Mario franchise, but wishes would use the real-life definition, I think we can trust our users to know what a wish is.
6. Potato3003 (talk) Per all.
7. Rainbow Road Drifter (talk) We don't have an article on walking, which is done by many characters and enemies in every game.This is a lot like Happiness in how it doesn't affect gameplay enough to warrant an article (as the current article's fairly short sections prove). We can also use the objects' articles to mention every instance of a character wishing for something with them, so we aren't losing any information.
8. Power Flotzo (talk) Per all.
9. Jdtendo (talk) Per all.

Keep article

1. Technetium (talk) Wishes are fundamental aspects of multiple games.
2. Sorbetti (talk) I don't think it should be deleted, just improved, which hasn't been done yet. Personally, I find it very interesting to see how the same concept of wishes is used in several games, so the page itself works well; it just needs some improvement.
3. PrincessPeachFan (talk): Per above.
4. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - These have physical ramifications in some game, especially with what Peach can do with them in PM and the M&L games.
5. Jiminy Cricket (1940) When you wish upon a star, your dreams come true!
6. Koopa con Carne (talk) They're tangible, narrative, and foundational aspects of the fictional world in certain Mario games. They express themselves differently from the wishes in our real life minds, as they're magical and almost self-fulfilling in nature. Construing the Mario universe Wish and our typical understanding of a wish as the same thing is missing the mark.

Comments (when you wish upon a star...)

I honestly wouldn't be opposed to bringing Happiness back, but I'd have to look more into that. Maybe a second proposal if this one fails? Technetium (talk) 12:47, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

We feel like if this fails, we might as well bring back Happiness. We don't see any real reason to single that one out, aside from the fact that its page quality used to be... uh. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 12:55, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

And if this passes, any thoughts on what to do with Vim? Technetium (talk) 13:01, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

Thing is, Vim is an actual tangible substance, and it has some gameplay effect: it heals Swiggler in the fight, and you can actually alter the contents of its drink to Swiggler to deny it being healed. Wish is just an abstract concept that's mostly for story flavor purposes. Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 13:05, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

We mean... Happiness is also your health bar in Yoshi's Story, and that's an even more omnipresent gameplay impact. Doesn't stop that page from being nuked. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 13:10, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

It's just a health meter with flavor text behind it, making it redundant with the Health Meter article. Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 13:13, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

An abstract concept and also a move, which would probably be in this page if it wasn't for Weird Translation Choices. Blinker (talk) 11:23, May 27, 2025 (EDT)

Wait that hapiness article is actually comedy gold I'm saving that right now. On Vim I say we keep it as it is a Mario exclusive substance that someone who didn't play Partners In Time would not know about. Unlike Wishing or hapiness which use the same definition that we use in real life. It's like if we had an article on hands. SComic^(T|C)

Counterpoint to Rainbow Road Drifter: We do have an article about secondary gaits of playable characters where they move faster. And the article for jumping, lest we forget. And the red-headed stepchild of stomping. And swim. In all honesty, "Walk" sounds like a valid article, because what if a game has a mechanic where you cannot block while walking? I think "has a gameplay definition" and therefore falling under move coverage helps them exist though. Salmancer (talk) 14:57, June 6, 2025 (EDT)

That's a good point, generic actions from real life get articles if they are integral to gameplay. We have the Jump article because it is how you dodge barrels in Donkey Kong, one of the primary attack moves in the RPGs, and so on. I'm rethinking my walking analogy, because there are games where walking might genuinely affect gameplay. I understand the Dash article, because running affects gameplay in the platformers by letting players move across one-block gaps and double and triple jump. However, this is closer to Happiness, that article implied that the actual mental emotion affected gameplay in that game, and it doesn't. Wishes largely don't affect gameplay, and the physical artifacts that grant them are what is actually influencing the storyline, and those articles can mention all the times a wish was granted with them. Rainbow Road Drifter - Talk 18:39, June 6, 2025 (EDT)