Talk:Hard Block

(First topic)

Where did you get the sprites for the hard blocks??? I've been looking forever but couldn't find any, so I cut it out from a picture. Luigi86101 I think he copied the sprite from the game's files, like I did with NSMBWII (no image from it uploaded tho). -- HUMPNUT!!! 16:19, October 18, 2020 (EDT)

Merge Candy Block with Hard Block

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

merge 9-0-0

Like Super Mario Odyssey, Super Mario Bros. Wonder has a number of blocks that take on unique appearances in certain levels, presumably to match the design of the local environment. A good example of this are the Hard Blocks. In previous games, there would be a different Hard Block design per game. In Super Mario Bros., it was the stairblock; in Super Mario Bros. 3 it was the Wood Block; and in Super Mario World, it was the stone Gray Block. In the New Super Mario Bros. series, both wooden and stone Hard Blocks are incorporated, as well as a few new ones unique to certain levels. In Super Mario Maker games and the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia, these are presented as "flavors" of the same type of object rather than discretely unique blocks, and we follow suite on the wiki. That is all fine and dandy.

Super Mario Bros. Wonder follows the tradition of supporting a wide diversity of different Hard Blocks: the returning stairblock, the Wood Block, the Stone Block, a wholly new golden block, one with a diamond pattern, and underwater coral-like blocks. Which brings us to these conjecturally-titled "Candy Blocks." They are a type of Hard Block, just like the other ones mentioned.

We know this from this blog post published by Nintendo Co., Ltd., which introduces some flavor text about Gnawsher biology:

歯は特殊な合金で、硬いブロックもガシガシ壊す。

Which translates to:

The teeth are made of a special alloy and can easily break through hard blocks.

This text is employing the official name for Hard Blocks (硬いブロック), rather than an informal moniker used to describe the type of block. What "hard block" could this text possibly be referring to other than the candy-colored blocks in Gnawsher Lair, some of which are laid out exactly like stairblocks? These are the only blocks Gnawshers are shown to bite through, and the only other enemy that interacts with them candy-colored blocks are red Pokipedes, which simply punch through them like they do with the other Hard Blocks in the game. While understandable to see these blocks as something unique in isolation, that is a misread: as stated by Nintendo themselves, they are a Hard Block, just like stairblocks, Wood Blocks, Stone Blocks, and Coral. I would like us to follow suite by merging this article with the main Hard Block article.

I offer three options:

1. Support: Lump Candy Block with Hard Block.
2. Support: Keep the Candy Block article and split all of the other Hard Blocks into their own separate articles: Stairblock, Wood Block, Gray Block, etc. would receive their own articles, and Hard Block would be more like a broad category for several different blocks. I am not personally invested in doing this, and it seems a bit counter to how the mainline games recognize these blocks in text and guides since Super Mario Maker, but I'm including it as an option for those who may want it.
3. Opppose: Keep Candy Block split from Hard Block: preferably with some sort of explanation!

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: Jan. 7th, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on December 31, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support: Lump Candy Block with Hard Block

1. Nintendo101 (talk) Candily.
2. PopitTart (talk) Per proposal. The Candy Block page is painfully stubby and its behavior is entirely in line with Hard Blocks.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) If we merge Hard Blocks regardless of aesthetics and material, from wood to concrete to whatever material the SMB1 ones are made out of (We always imagined they were kinda plastic-y!), the ones made of candy shouldn't be an exception!
4. Hewer (talk) Sweet proposal.
5. Arend (talk) ...This was split in the first place?
6. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
7. EvieMaybe (talk) per proposal!
8. Mario (talk) These are just recolored Hard Blocks. It's like giving blue ? Block from New Super Mario Bros. its own page.
9. Ahemtoday (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose: Keep Candy Blocks separate from Hard Blocks

PrincessPeachFan (talk) If they've been around since 3...

Comments on this candy-dandy proposal

Letting you know, SMB3 also has the X-centered stone Hard Blocks in a few stage types (though always using palette 4 rather than 2). So multiple designs goes back to the near-beginning. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:05, December 24, 2024 (EST)

Well that's neat to know, though I don't think it really changes anything specific to this proposal. Can you pinpoint where exactly the stairblocks are in the spritesheet you put together? It's very good and thorough, but my eyes sometimes struggle fixating on a subject. - Nintendo101 (talk) 11:24, December 25, 2024 (EST)

Without the flat front, you can see them in the plains sections, the fort sections, and the hill sections, desert, and giant/Hand Trap. The original flat-fronted design is also in an unused setup of Battle Mode (while a similar design to the in-game Hard Blocks is used for the Mario Bros. floor). A few bonus areas using the cave tileset also take an appearance resembling Empty Blocks, but still functioning as Hard Blocks. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:06, December 25, 2024 (EST)

@PrincessPeachFan: What do you mean with "if they have been around since 3"? The Candy Block article states they appeared so far in Super Mario Bros. Wonder ONLY, and thus have NOT been around since Super Mario Bros. 3. Where's your evidence that specifically Candy Blocks have been around since SMB3, and how does that justify it being split from Hard Block, which Candy Blocks have been functionally identical to? rend (talk) (edits) 12:25, December 26, 2024 (EST)

I think he just misunderstood the exchange I had with Doc. - Nintendo101 (talk) 13:15, December 26, 2024 (EST)

I feared that they might've misinterpreted something in this discussion, which goes to show that they either didn't read the proposal thoroughly and/or completely misinterpreted the subject, before settling on this vote. In this case, if they took a look at the Candy Block article (the subject of this proposal), they would've realized that it looks like the typical, square-centered Hard Block, but with diagonal stripes and appearing in various colors, and that the article only covered this specific version from Wonder, instead being about any of the X-centered Hard Blocks. rend (talk) (edits) 19:00, December 26, 2024 (EST)

Withdrawing. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 20:52, December 26, 2024 (EST)

Clean out the Hard Block gallery

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

cut gallery 12-3
Hard Block is a term defined by the Super Mario Maker series, and one that's pretty useful for describing the near-interchangeable blocks from SMB1, SMB3(?), SMW, etc.. Because this term is defined by Mario Maker and the specific way the block interacts with level design, though, it seems that it is very open to interpretation.

But the gallery for Hard Blocks, I would argue takes TOO many liberties with what is defined as a Hard Block.

Most notably, it features many, MANY tiles that are recolors of what Mario Maker, the source of the term, defines as ground tiles from the castle stages. While some are used in a context similar to Hard Blocks (i.e., serving as filler tiles that are not the main ground for a level), these include tile colors that are only ever used in the same context the castle ground is, such as the vaguely-different tiles in the very castle-like Hand Trap stages. This is not to mention how a recolor of Empty Blocks gets in.

This stretches the definition of Hard Block too far even for my tastes, treating it as basically synonymous with "solid tile that doesn't do damage and doesn't visually merge with the rest of the ground," which is so vague that you might as well apply it to things like Empty Blocks, the yellow bridge tiles from SMW, Bill Blasters when they don't shoot anything, Ice Blocks, Message Blocks, etc.

I propose we remove the bevy of SMB3 tiles from the page's gallery, and maybe one day come to a more agreeable definition on Hard Block after to avoid this kind of thing. Under this ruling, these would be the only SMB3 Hard Blocks left in the gallery:

• 

  Super Mario Bros. 3 Wood Block (background layer, normal)

• 

  Super Mario Bros. 3 Wood Block (background layer, cave)

• 

  Super Mario Bros. 3 Wood Block (background layer, desert fortress)

• 

  Super Mario Bros. 3 Wood Block (background layer, ice)

• 

  Super Mario Bros. 3 Wood Block (background layer, blue)

• 

  Super Mario Bros. 3 Wood Block (background layer, giant)

• 

  Super Mario Bros. 3 Wood Block (sprite layer, land)

• 

  Super Mario Bros. 3 Wood Block (sprite layer, cave)

• 

  Super Mario All-Stars (Super Mario Bros. 3)

• 

  Super Mario All-Stars (Super Mario Bros. 3)

• 

  Super Mario Maker (Super Mario Bros. 3 style)

Proposer: Boo Buddy Blocked (talk)
Deadline: June 12, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on June 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Bye Bye Blocks

1. Boo Buddy Blocked (talk) In a desperate need of cleaning up.
2. PopitTart (talk) Per proposal. You can't use Super Mario Maker to define Hard Blocks and then turn around and ignore it when it defines Ground.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) Per proposal, and PopitTart especially; if we're going to take Maker's word on what's a Hard Block, surely we should take its word on what's Ground, right? It's worth noting that the four-triangles-making-a-square blocks appear in Wonder, and one guidebook (we forget which one off the cuff) expressly describes them as "Unbreakable Blocks", separate from just "Hard Block"; while obviously not immediately applicable to SMB3, if we were to give those their own page, and we know the concept has been mentioned once or twice in the Discord...
4. EvieMaybe (talk) Per Camwoodstock. going by behavior doesn't quite work for a block whose defining characteristic is not doing anything.
5. Blinker (talk) Per all.
6. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
7. Xiahou Block (talk) Per all.
8. Mario4Ever (talk) Per all.
9. DryBonesBandit (talk) Per all, especially PopitTart.
10. Sparks (talk) Per all.
11. Blocktain Skurvy (talk) Per this mother blockin' proposal, baby!
12. SmokedChili (talk) Per all. These are also blocks in the game's code but all official documentation treats them as characters. And then you have the undocumented elements like that are nevertheless grouped with the Cloud Block article on this wiki, so in the Ground article is consistent with that. Also, can confirm SMBW NinDori guide unofficially uses "Unbreakable Block".

Block this removal

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - This proposal is trying to say that is not the same as despite it looking and acting the same, which is utterly ridiculous. Wood Block also had an occasional extra behavior and the Maker games lumped Rotating Block with Brick Block despite them still acting different. These appear in many contexts, only some of which are even loosely comparable to ground. Otherwise, Wood Blocks are also ground due to their appearance in World 2-1's bonus area. Trying to use a definition established by a separate game that came out 30 years later over blatant visual and functional parity with the few games that came out beforehand is ludicrous. Because if thisMedia:SMAS SMB3 World 6-F3 Screenshot.png isn't the same as thisMedia:SMAS LL World 7-2 Screenshot.png, when what the heck would it be?
2. Nelsonic (talk) Per Doc von Schmeltwick.
3. Blockitu (talk) Per Doc von Schmeltwick.

Comments

is not a recolor of ; the bolts are transparent on it as it uses a different tile from a different VRAM set. I know because I ripped them all. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 08:45, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

This feels like it's splitting hairs. Yes, technically this is a different tile than an Empty Block, but it is by all means identical to an Empty Block just with different colors. The fact the bolts are transparent is meaningless, because they're always put up against a black background anyway. It's like how the Lakitu's Cloud item in Super Mario Bros. 3 is a recolor of the Cloud Block despite what would be the blue on a Cloud Block being transparent on Lakitu's Cloud. Boo Buddy Blocked (talk) 12:19, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

A rookie search of the Discord says Camwoodstock is thinking of the Kadokawa Super Mario Bros. Wonder guidebook. Of course, according to that search the name was marked as "unofficial", as in it was not expressly given to the editors of the book by Nintendo. Also and do not have the same appearance. They're both pyramid-ish, extending toward the screen, but the first ends on a flat plane and the second ends on a point. I guess you could argue the second is a redesign of the first, but not that they are identical. Salmancer (talk) 08:55, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

They look as "the same" as Brick Block, any of the items, most of the enemies, and especially Mario himself between SMB/TLL and SMB3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 08:59, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

I think it's more than fair to let Mario Maker define the term that it made up to begin with. Boo Buddy Blocked (talk) 11:08, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Are you 100% zero-doubts-whatsoever positive that "硬いブロック" was coined by Maker and had never been used once in any guidebook in the intervening years? Regardless, these are blatantly the "stairblocks" as one source called them from SMB1. (And they're certainly more functionally similar than the inconsistently shaped often-moving sometimes-bouncy orange platforms from Sunshine also covered here.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:24, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

If there is such a source, it certainly isn't found on MarioWiki, which despite being founded in 2005 and Hard Blocks existing since SMB1 never had a general "hard block" article until 2016, a year after Super Mario Maker had come out. This is despite already having had a Wooden Block article years prior, so it's not like such blocks didn't have their own pages before. And as EvieMaybe said, you can't really define a block from its behavior alone if its behavior is "not doing anything" without it becoming completely useless as a term. Boo Buddy Blocked (talk) 12:04, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

I'd say being solid and inert is a behavior when we're specifically talking about blocks, a recurring and intrinsic aspect of the series. We also didn't have specific articles for things like Magikoopa magic, Raccoon Mario's special ability, or the most interesting part of Water Land until I created them very recently, so that's not really much of a reason; it was only relatively recently we started actually going deep with object coverage. You used to have to dig to find even acknowledgement on certain objects. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:10, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

The thing is, most blocks can be described as solid and inert! Cloud Blocks in Super Mario Bros. had this behavior, Bill Blasters have this behavior when they don't shoot anything, Ground has this behavior, Ice Blocks, Empty Blocks, small pipes, etc. If the standard for what makes something a hard block is just "solid and inert," then Hard Block would be a useless term and would just redirect to Block for simplicity, at that point. Boo Buddy Blocked (talk) 12:19, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

(In fact, Hard Blocks in Mario Maker are NOT strictly inert, because they move when put on tracks or have wings applied to them, so not even that is completely accurate.) Boo Buddy Blocked (talk) 12:26, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Maker has all sorts of weird mechanics that don't factor into other games, like stacks of unrelated enemies and putting random things in certain objects like clouds or clown cars. Bill Blaster's aren't "blocks" in the standard definition aside from in Super Mario 64, so I'm not quite sure why you keep bringing them up. Either way, all those other things also have their own identifying features. These, generally speaking, are solid cubes that aren't destructible outside of being in some super-mega-ultra powerful form and generally have a somewhat plain design. That is what they are, that is their purpose, just because they're boring doesn't make them lesser. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:31, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

I bring up Bill Blasters so often because one-tile tall ones, featuring only the cannon parts, are semi-recurring elements, and at least in World 8-1 (Super Mario Bros. 3) there is a Bill Blaster cannon that does not shoot. By your definition, as a solid and inert block that has no other function, it should be considered a Hard Block.
Also, Hard Blocks are NOT destructible only while being in a powerful form, as Bob-ombs, Bulrushes, Broozers are completely capable of destroying Hard Blocks, as well as like Spiny Shellmets, Big Thwomps, and, as mentioned before, Skewers. Boo Buddy Blocked (talk) 12:59, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Those still aren't blocks, they're cylindrical cannons that happen to fit a single tile. Also, in SMB3, Bob-ombs exploding couldn't even destroy Brick Blocks. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:09, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Bob-ombs destroy Hard Blocks in modern games, which are also the ones they can be broken in. If we're defining Hard Blocks by their ability to be broken while also only looking through the strict lens of if they can be broken in their debut appearance, then nothing from Super Mario Bros. 3 should be considered a Hard Block. Boo Buddy Blocked (talk) 13:20, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

My point is that classifying things strictly through the lens of after 40 years of a series' development rather than what yet existed when those specific games existed is not a good idea. The cross-marked stair-building blocks from SMB and SMB3 are objectively the same object as each other. If Stairblock needs split to have them both in one place, fine, though I should think the SMB3 Wood Block should be split in that case as well. Because the object in SMM is not the same as the Wood Block in SMB3 in every single manner, and functionally is much closer to the blue Stairblocks. But remember, other things have functional or visual differences as well; for instance, Big Goomba and Rocky Wrench. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:33, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

We don't really understand how one can say the four-triangle Hard Blocks and those divoted Hard Blocks "acting exactly the same" when Mario Maker, the entire basis for the argument, already has a few different functions that are Hard Block-only, whereas Ground just cannot do those things. Hard Blocks can be put on tracks, Ground cannot. Hard Blocks can be crushed by Skewers and Big Mario, Ground cannot. When was the last time you saw a video of a block being crushed by a Skewer? The entire idea that these should be in the gallery would only make sense in a world where we merge ground with hard blocks under the pretense they are the exact same thing, which we not only don't do, but is something that is fairly easily demonstrable with the same game used to determine what counts as "Ground" in the first place.
If anything, the bulk of these should at the very least be moved over to Ground, per Mario Maker's own perception. Otherwise, what, are we supposed to intentionally dis-organize and put the graphics for what the game deems ground blocks, and what are clearly ground blocks functionally, over in a gallery for hard blocks, on purpose, just because they kinda look similar to hard blocks, and literally can't move them to the ground gallery because of a proposal? That makes even less sense. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 12:38, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Ground is ground. These are not ground, these are blocks, and these exist alongside actual ground within SMB3's stages; look at World 3-7 for a good example (and note how the woodgrain blocks look a lot more like the actual ground there). It is as simple as that. Skewers weren't even in SMB3, so that's also a weird argument. The four-trapezoid things in SMB1 and TLL were used to make completely inert stairs and little vertical stacks, which in SMB3, is the role of the four-triangle blue blocks. It is less common for the woodgrain blocks to be situated like that, as it almost always includes at least one of the bouncy kind when they are. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:47, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

If the entire crux of the argument is "we have to ignore the Maker games, despite the fact they're the latest games, just because of how they appeared in the original Mario 3, even if it's at the expense of being accurate in our coverage of the Maker games that came later", we're sorry, but we don't find that a compelling argument. We shouldn't have to actively kneecap our coverage of the Maker titles by claiming what is actually considered Ground in that game is actually a Hard Block, despite Maker already having its own perception of a Hard Block, and despite the fact these blocks literally do not function like Hard Blocks in that game, all because back in Mario 3, they were used interchangeably. Basing these pages entirely on an older game's incarnation and disregarding what future games have shown about them would be entirely unprecedented; it would be about as silly as if we opted to assert Galoombas were the exact same as Goombas just because World didn't originally make that distinction. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 13:04, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Maker may (or may not) have named them, but they didn't invent them; they've been around since SMB, and every iteration since then has been derivative of the SMB one. Saying that every iteration prior to Maker is irrelevant if it doesn't fit in with Maker's non-standard gameplay is just silly. Also, the Goomba thing doesn't count since that was only a localization thing. (Fun fact: the giga-leak shows the wooden blocks with the bouncing abilities were planned for World, then redesigned with glasses, before being cut completely. That's likely not a hard block at that point.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:08, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

It's not "saying every iteration prior to Maker is irrelevant", it's saying that we shouldn't strictly be using it as a basis because games since then have already drawn a distinction. Even if Maker "doesn't count" for one reason or another, Wonder already has both standard "hard blocks" and the "four-triangle-making-a-square" blocks, appearing in tandem with one another, and hard blocks have distinct functionality (being smashed by Bulrushes or eaten by Gnawshers) that those four-triangle-making-a-square blocks lack. Games since Maker have already been making a distinction between these two, and again, we don't see why we should discount Wonder, or Maker, just because of a few levels in Mario 3. Otherwise, we may as well add these to Rock Block: Looks exactly the same. Made of bricks, gray. More durable than a standard Brick Block. What's the difference? (Obviously, there's a difference here, and we hope we don't need to explain it...) ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 13:25, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Bricks themselves hold a different pixel mapping? Those actually are treated as equivalent to ground tiles in SMB, unlike the blue Hard Blocks in SMB3. SMM definitely defined "Semisolid Platform," but we aren't treating Island as synonymous with it, nor are we eschewing anything that wasn't just like the ones in Maker. How about the things this article includes for Yoshi's Island? Super Mario Sunshine (that's a weird one)? Are they any more or less "Hard Blocks" than the blue ones? I also want to point out that SMM treats coral as a ground tile even though it's a different thing as far as SMB and SMB3 are concerned. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:29, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

If the logic is "well, internally, those are treated as ground, not as blocks" (at least, if we have "different pixel mapping" correct), then we have some news about how Mario 3 actually stores tiles... In that, it's basically the exact same for ground and these four-triangles-making-a-square block, with the only difference being that the wood ground has a height limit of 2 (to make sure their tiling works), whereas the blocks have a height limit of 16 (presumably since there's no tiling going on at all there). If we were to take the game data at face value, these blocks are just... Ground that you can extend vertically more. In fact, Wood blocks can't be extended vertically at all, making them even worse for this. And that's under the pretense of these being actual floors; various rooms, usually in fortresses, use these as walls or ceilings, with a completely different bespoke floor; such as World 4-Fortress 1, the first room of World 5-Tower, or World 8-Bowser's Castle. In fact, if you wanted to compare these to anything, and we only used "how the game stores them internally" as our sole determining factor for what makes a block, a block, they wouldn't be like hard blocks... But the Brick floors. We can't imagine anyone wants the four-triangles-making-a-square blocks to share a page with these: ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 13:56, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

I know fully well how SMB3 stores things internally. I ripped every last one from the VRAM. What makes this a block compared to ground tiles is the extremely obvious outline around it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:03, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Can't believe we're saying this, but... The ground also has an outline? Unless the idea is that, by not having a line at the bottom, that "doesn't count" as an outline for some reason? But they lack a line at the bottom because they're explicitly meant to cut off the bottom of the screen. We don't think "having an outline" is enough to make a Hard Block. Lots of things in Mario 3 have an outline. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 14:06, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

.....are you not getting the "outline wraps around the entirety of this 16-16 pixel tile and does not connect to anything outside of it" part? That's what defines a "block" from anything else in the scenery in this game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:11, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Hard Block. Blinker (talk) 14:29, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Again, that's not a "block." Amazingly enough, blocks are, generally speaking, blocks. Everything that can be drawn within a 16x16 pixel space is not necessarily a "block." This, for example, is clearly ring-shaped. There's a reason "spherical block" was considered BJaODN-worthy. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:31, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Ring-shaped. Ok. Blinker (talk) 14:38, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Donut Lift is also its own thing. And while they sometimes have been a bit cavalier with what qualifies as a "block," the unusually shaped ones always have their own distinctive properties (and are usually flat at least somewhere on it, being on top like this or on bottom like Switch Block). Ground is still not a "block" by any specific definition, nor are many of the other whattabouts that have been brought up. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:45, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Are these blocks? It's not the entirety of the 16x16 pixel tile, it's rounded a bit. Or these? Or these, since they're not 16x16? If taken exactly literally, the only blocks in this game are the normally-sized ? Blocks, Empty Blocks, and some forms of the four-triangles blocks, since this one is missing the bottom right: You would actively be excluding the Wooden Blocks with a definition like this, since they're missing their corners.
The fact of the matter is, though, uh, we don't think "outline" makes for a compelling definition, no matter how many superlatives you add onto it. Your definition of what makes for a Hard Block probably just shouldn't run the risk of including this in the first place: ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 14:34, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

"Big" blocks are explicitly larger versions of those smaller blocks and always appear in those clusters of four tiles with no variation. And to address a prior point, a rounded square, like Wood Block, is still a square with outlines. That "reinforced"-looking Stairblock from the Boss Bass level had its bottom outline encroached by the shading a bit in the original, but it was included in SMAS. I'm really not understanding what's so confusing about this. ._. A block is a block. Ground is ground. Those other things, like coral and cannons and whatnot, are neither. I have no idea why you even brought up the somersaulting Mario, that's obviously not a block. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:37, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Are you trying to argue that the tiles being individual one-tile "blocks" rather than connected ground makes them Hard Blocks? That would mean every ground (bar castle) in SMB1 is a hard block, along with SMB3's desert pipe junctions, most of SMW's ghost houses, and hell, an isolated tile of ground in the SMW style of SMM would fall under this definition.--PopitTart (talk) 15:45, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

No? I'm saying that uniquely designed blocks that are hard are hard blocks. Ground, even when as a single tile, tends to look distinct from standard blocks, with only a few exceptions, and these things appear in addition to standard ground. "Hard Block" from what I can tell is "block that is indestructible aside from maybe if you do something really crazy." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:51, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

I wood like to point out, that over at the Discord, people have found out the Hard Block gallery is actually missing a block that is determined as a Hard Block by Super Mario Maker, and can be found in this tileset: a wooden block with rounded edges, found in the Super Mario World style's Ghost House and Airship themes. This exact sprite isn't found in Super Mario World, but the game does have a close equivalent that is found in this tileset.
I'm personally not invested enough to determine what exactly counts as a Hard Block (some people on the Discord say that a Hard Block has to be breakable in some capacity, and therefore argue that the stairblocks from SMB1 shouldn't even count since there's no form in that game that allows you to break those), but I think what they want is to stick to what Super Mario Maker determines as Hard Blocks, then find close equivalents from the same game styles in said games. The cross-ish Hard Block may resemble the Stairblock a little, but there's no Hard Block in Super Mario Maker's Super Mario Bros. 3 style that actually resembles this kind of block, as all of its Hard Blocks seem to be the Wood Block. rend (talk) (edits) 13:08, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Why would they need to be breakable? I find that a puzzling viewpoint. "Hard" implies either difficult to break or outright impossible to break. (All these various arguments, and no one but me's brought up what is being covered in the "Sunshine" section... if anything needed a proposal, it'd probably be that.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:16, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Because SMM2 actually includes unbreakable Wood Blocks in the SMB3 Sky theme. Draw a 1-block thick wall or floor of Ground, and it takes the appearance of Wood blocks with a screw in the center, to differentiate from actual Hard Blocks. So, this clearly is not Hard Blocks. The game says so directly. And the only difference, bar the screw, is their breakability and mobility.--PopitTart (talk) 13:28, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

That is because in the athletic stages of SMB3 itself, the ground looked (surprise, surprise) identical to lifts, which in that game are a horizontally stretched version of Wood Blocks. Want a good example? Look at World 3-6, where the Wood Blocks are outright cohesive with the ground (which itself is, for all intents and purposes, stationary lifts on the background layer). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:34, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Not really sure what you're getting at, but the point is SMM2 features two versions of Wood Blocks, one breakable and one not, distinguished by one being labeled a Hard Block and the other as Ground. This suggests that SMM perceives "Hard Block" as specifically the breakable things regardless of appearance, which is consistent with Wonder and its unbreakable blocks.--PopitTart (talk) 13:56, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

It also treats those semisolid platforms from SMW as distinct from Mushroom Platforms, and apparently I'm the only person in the universe who does not see said semisolid platforms as being mushrooms. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:04, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Let me ask you this: if they are removed, where will they go? Here's a hint: the answer is not "ground," because that isn't what they are, for the same reason that coral is not ground. Also, given the above proposal, why should those "candy" blocks stay here but these things that are obviously the same as the SMB1/TLL blocks be removed - while said block's appearance in SMB/TLL remains? That's eating your cake and keeping it too, it does not make any logical sense. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:15, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Preferably, on an article for unbreakable blocks, per Wonder.--PopitTart (talk) 14:29, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Which would be called? Also, in that case, SMB3's Wooden ones would also need moved there or split back to Wood Block. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:32, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

Presumably "Kowarenai Block", per the Wonder guidebook, unless an English name is sourced from somewhere else. That would be agreeable, IMO. I would honestly prefer the Hard Block article only cover the actually breakable blocks in the NSMB, SMM, and Wonder games. I actually have a draft aiming to split Wood Blocks again primarily due to their item containing abilities.--PopitTart (talk) 14:40, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

In that case, it'd be better for this proposal to not go through so this can be done all at once and not left in an inconsistent asymmetrical state. Maybe we could go with "Stairblock," but it's an old name. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:43, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

At the same time, though, if we're defining Hard Block as "possible, but difficult to break counterpart to Brick Block," where does that leave Rock Block? I'm also only remembering the NSMB stair-blocks only being destroyable by Mega Mario, who also destroys all sorts of other normally-indestructible stuff like Pipes and Bill Blasters. Was there a separate "Hard" Block in those games Bob-ombs could destroy, or did they look the same as well? Been a while since I last played that. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:43, May 31, 2025 (EDT)

We have discussed on discord, so I am fine with treating "Unbreakable Block" as a subtype of Hard Block, along with Wood Block as another type. I still think the proposal should have a better wording to account for this, though, rather than singling out one specific appearance of this subtype. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:38, June 2, 2025 (EDT)