Talk:Heart (Yoshi's Story)

(First topic)

Why is it better to use symbols to be more exact? Geno's real name I understand, but this... :/ Wa _T^C_@^Y 12:48, 21 March 2009 (EDT)

Also, how do you search this with that symbol as title. Can't you a conjectural name for this at least?

¢oincoll€ctor

This is the name used in the Instruction Booklet (as indicated in the references). On the heart page, I included a redirect to this page. You can actually go to this page by putting the symbol "♥" in the search field. Also, I am linking anything that needs to be linked to this page. -- Son of Suns (talk)

I feel we should make "Heart" a disambig page, providing links to Heart (item), HP, and this. — Stooben Rooben 15:44, 21 March 2009 (EDT)

That's a good idea. -- Son of Suns (talk)

Sweet. Any final objections from anyone? — Stooben Rooben 19:00, 21 March 2009 (EDT)

Well, does Wikipedia have any rules about using symbols as Page names?Ninja Yoshi

Remember, we're not Wikipedia. Geno's real name is a bunch of symbols, and if that was the only name given in the game, we would be obliged to use it as our title (as it's the official name). Likewise, I am fairly certain this subject has only been referred to as via symbol. As long as we have redirects, we should be fine. The same thing occurs with the ? Block article. -- Son of Suns (talk)

I think this should be named "♥ point(s)", just "♥" doesn't says anything at all. SWFlash

I think this article should be named "Heart Points". Just some kind of heart doesn't tell the title of the article. Happy Halloween!

Type

BTW, how do you type this? RPG Gamer. I HAVE RPG!! (talk) 13:17, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

If you have Windows 7, go to the start menu, type "character map" on the search bar, find the character, and there you go. ♦♥♪♫☻♠►▓■ Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 23:31, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

I'm on an iPad.RPG Gamer. I HAVE RPG!! (talk) 09:46, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

Well, I never use Apple's products, so I don't know how to add symbols. Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 00:47, 3 April 2013 (EDT)

You don't necessarily have to type this. Just type "heart" and it will lead you to this page Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 00:51, 3 April 2013 (EDT)

♥ or ❤

Super nitpicky, but someone just made a redirect for ❤, so I was wondering if the manual's usage of the heart was skinny and pointy or fat and round. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:38, 5 November 2017 (EST)

The manual appears to use a shorter heart that looks more like ❤. However, the manual PDF uses an image instead of the Unicode character, so there is no way to no for sure, but it definitely looks like the ❤ (U+2764) instead of the ♥ (U+2665). --Super Mario Fan ⁶⁷ (T•C•S) 12:20, 27 December 2017 (EST)

I like neither. It would be easier to just use heart and then use the magic word {{DISPLAYTITLE:♥}} to change the title, like on e-Reader (MediaWiki always capitalizes the first character in an article title, so that's why it is done). --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) ^{(Stats - Contribs)} 19:41, 3 January 2018 (EST)

Oh, we should do something similar for ♪Yu Ayasaki's Big Adventure!♪. Found that Special:AllPages/z. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) ^{(Stats - Contribs)} 22:05, 3 January 2018 (EST)

Comparing the two variants aesthetically to determine which one to use for the article's name isn't what should be done as these both look differently across different platforms. See these Emojipedia pages: ♥️ Black Heart Suit (current) and ❤️ Heavy Black Heart (redirect).
Regarding the manual, from what I can see is that those very much use a Unicode character, not an image, and that this article's name uses the one in the manual. The current article name and redirects are thus good as they are now. Lakituthequick 16:00, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm considering typablility of the subject when linking from elsewhere. On a standard QWERTY keyboard with number pad in numlock mode, best you can do is Alt+3, and not many people know about alt codes 0-255. Heart is immediately understandable and typable. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) ^{(Stats - Contribs)} 14:35, 5 January 2018 (EST)

Move to "Heart (Yoshi's Story)" or "Point (Yoshi's Story)"

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Move to Heart (Yoshi's Story) 19-0-3
A recent proposal reminded me that this still exists. Generally, this is only one of three titles that begin with a symbol in its title (the other two being ★ door and ♪Yu Ayasaki's Big Adventure!♪). But what generally makes this one in particular annoying is that not only does this article title only consist of a single symbol, the ♥, but iOS devices also displays specifically this symbol to specifically a ♥️ emoji (not a regular heart emoji, the one from the card suits), and that in particular makes it difficult to indicate whether or not the symbol is supposed to be a link. Something to blame Apple for, but still annoying nonetheless.

And why do we do it like this? Well, obviously, because that's what the manual calls it, consistently even (probably has to do with the in-game heart symbol, but that's like calling coins "s" based on score display). Generally, I think it's a bit silly that we have to conform using symbols when manuals use symbols for the fun of it, especially when certain manuals do it with objects that already have a unique name and all, but it is understandable to a degree when that's the only name we have for the thing... OR IS IT?

The Official Yoshi's Story Player's Guide actually gives us two names to work with here: hearts, indicating the symbols that display when Yoshi eats something or beats a Shy Guy (and even explaining the difference between a heart outline (♡) and a filled-in heart, which this page does not do), and points, which actually add to your score/mood when you get a filled-in heart.

This means we can move to either title. I personally prefer using "heart" since this means we can also expand the article to include the clarification between outline hearts and filled-in hearts; plus the article already details their connection to the Smile Meter; plus naming this "points" makes me think this should be merged with the main Point article, turning this in a glorified point system. However, the guide appears to consistently call the things that add to the total score "points" anyway, making this seem like the more appropriate term uses. Whatever name we use, though, I feel like both could be covered on the same article.

...of course, we could still choose to keep the status quo and still use symbols, but as I explained above, I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

Proposer: Arend (talk)
Deadline: July 13, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on July 6, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Supp♡rt: Move to "Heart (Yoshi's Story)"

1. Arend (talk) Per proposal.
2. Tails777 (talk) I was actually thinking about this earlier too. Like the symbol isn't incorrect or anything, but just typing "Heart" is not only easier, but just more straight forward. And it helps that it's still an official name too.
3. S♡rbetti (talk) Per proposal.
4. K♡pt♡in Sk♡rvy (talk) P♡r pr♡p♡sal.
5. YoYo (talk) ♡♡♡ ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡ (translates from heart language as "Per Proposal")
6. EvieMaybe (talk) i think we should have an actual policy about not using symbols in URLs. meanwhile, per all
7. Ryk♡t♡ (talk) P♡r pr♡p♡s♡l
8. Alt-End-O (talk) Per Evie. We should also do this to ten-shaped object door as well.
9. PrincessPeachFan (talk): Mostly because Hearts are used in-game.
10. Daita (talk): A symbol can never be the name of a point-based collectable.
11. 🧡✳🐈👁🟢 (Camwoodstock) (talk) We really, really shouldn't require a user to either use redirects/disambiguation pages, or Alt+Numpad3, to access a page. We should probably just use Template:Title.
12. Okapii (talk) absolutely; per proposal and per Evie.
13. 🁌 (Dominoes) (talk) Per Pr♡posal. Having the page title be directly accessed with Latin characters makes it much easier to locate.
14. F♡n♡fY♡shi (talk) Per all.
15. DryBonesBandit (talk) Per all.
16. Pizza Master (talk) per all
17. M♡t❤l♥x123 (talk) Yeah makes sense to change the name, though I'll miss seeing the ♥ on my watchlist. Per all.
18. Xiahou Ba, The Nasty Warrior (talk) ❤
19. Mario (talk) One of the stranger page titles in MarioWiki

Opp♡se: Keep symbol title

1. Salmancer (talk) I feel like given the reasoning of the supporting votes, this proposal is going to be used as precedent to move World ★ (Super Mario Run) to "World Star (Super Mario Run)", given that reaching the page requires using the symbol "★" due to the glut of pages starting with "World" preventing autocomplete from leading to "World ★" by putting "World" into the search box. I'd rather not do that move, and this vote keeps this proposal from ending early as easily. EDIT: The Player's Guide is below the instruction manual in terms of priority for page titles per MarioWiki:Naming, and we should probably follow that priority for formatting of names too.
2. Hewer (talk) We shouldn't make exceptions to the naming policy just because people don't like the fact that the official name of this subject is a symbol. It would make sense if there was an actual technical restriction that prevented the use of the symbol as the title, but there isn't, so there's no reason not to use the more accurate name. I'm reminded of The Old Psychic Lady.

#SGoW (talk) I think having a symbol as a page title goes hard and we should keep it on that alone.

C♡mments

@SGoW You know the page title can still look like ♥ via {{DISPLAYTITLE:♥}}, right? Plus, this move will make it easier to type out without searching everywhere for a specific symbol. And I don't believe that "having a symbol as a page title goes hard and we should keep it on that alone" if it makes it more difficult to link or even search on the wiki. Altendo 11:14, June 30, 2025 (EDT)

The "special characters" drop-down in the editor has symbols like ♥ and ★ easily findable near the bottom of the "symbols" tab. It's more difficult to link to, true, but hopefully not beyond the reach of the average editor. And redirects solve searching problems. Salmancer (talk) 11:35, June 30, 2025 (EDT)

@Altendo @Camwoodstock @SGoW @Salmancer ...I think that when people suggest to use {{title}}/{{DISPLAYTITLE}} so the title of the article can still be "♥" (as well as when people opposing this proposal at all for preserving the ♥ symbol), kind of ignore the fact in my thesis that we have official, symbol-less names for the same subject thanks to the official Player's Guide, and therefor don't need to require "♥" to be the article title at all; we can just say that the manual calls it "♥" and that's it. If the guide didn't have those other names and just called them "♥" like the manual, then this proposal probably wouldn't even exist in the first place, since there wouldn't be another name for these things.
Like yeah, a difficult-to-access symbol being used as the article title is a problem too, but it's not the only reason why I'm proposing this. rend (talk) (edits) 18:21, June 30, 2025 (EDT)

This was edited to apply to me, sooo... "World Star (Super Mario Run)" is official, because it was used in the update notes one time, so this proposal saying something to the effect of "if a subject's name has a symbol in it that interferes with searching for it or linking to it, and a lower priority source has an alternative name without that symbol, use the lower priority source's name" does apply to World ★ (Super Mario Run). I stand by my take on the matter, namely sticking to the presentation of the highest priority source. (The player's guide is below the instruction manual, as per MarioWiki:Naming, and so is the update notes compared to the in-game presentation and the in-game notifications.) Salmancer (talk) 18:34, June 30, 2025 (EDT)

@Hewer Again, the other names I'm proposing are official names too; they come from the guide, as I've stated twice before already. That's like my main argument for this proposal. This isn't an Old Psychic Lady situation, since that was never an official name, unlike "heart" or "point". Like, I didn't come up with those names myself; if I did, I wouldn't have considered changing the article title to "Point (Yoshi's Story)" as an option either.
I don't entirely understand why people think the whole symbol thing is my only argument for this proposal, as I've clearly explained that the official Player's Guide has shown better options. rend (talk) (edits) 21:13, June 30, 2025 (EDT)

I'm well aware of that. But as has also been pointed out repeatedly by the opposition, the Player's Guide is a lower-priority source for naming than the manual. You're suggesting we defy the wiki's naming policy because you don't like the name being a symbol. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:30, July 1, 2025 (EDT)

It isn't because Hewer doesn't like the name being a symbol, it's because of the fact that "Heart" comes from the player's guide too and the heart symbol is to hard to type. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:13, July 6, 2025 (EDT)

To be honest, we were tempted to make this proposal a few days ago, but hesitated as we didn't know about the alternative name in the manual (Correction, it's the Player's Guide, sorry! The rest of our thoughts stand, though.). To expand our thoughts a bit more, we feel like even though the ♥ name is technically possible to type out with just the keyboard thanks to Alt codes, we shouldn't expect our average person--editor or browser--to type it out, by that method or otherwise. Nevermind the confusion between ♥ and a ❤ emoji; how many people visiting this site do you even reckon know about the Alt + Numpad3 thing we brought up? Heck, if you're on a cheap/older laptop that doesn't have a Numpad, you're basically forced to either use redirects, or sift through categories, neither of which are ideal.
And sure, while this doesn't run into the same issues as "we physically cannot have # symbols in page names" like #1 Iggy's Castle hits, we feel like if it's at all possible for a user to be flat-out unable to type a page's title with a simple QWERTY keyboard, it does warrant scrutiny, and we are including "requires the Numpad" for this.
As for the "You could use this as precedent to rename World ★ to World Star", and to be honest, we don't see the problem with that either? Just because we can put unicode symbols in these page titles, doesn't mean that we should. Especially since, unlike ♥, there's no Alt + Numpad code for the ★ symbol we use. That one, you really will just have to either take a redirect, sift through categories... Or worst of all, find the specific star unicode symbol and copy it. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 21:30, June 30, 2025 (EDT)

Small correction, but the alternative name(s) come from the Player's Guide. rend (talk) (edits) 00:50, July 1, 2025 (EDT)

Our bad! Our excuse is today's been... Very scattershot, as you can imagine. ^^; ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 01:11, July 1, 2025 (EDT)

I'm not really seeing how being unable to type it causes problems. You can still find the page just fine using redirects, and once you're there you can easily copy the symbol from the page to paste it if you need to. And I think accuracy to the source material is more important for us to prioritise than being easy for us to type out. Should we also move, say, Būbū Mario to "Bubu Mario"? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:30, July 1, 2025 (EDT)

In regards to this, if the goal is to be as accurate to source material as possible regardless of symbols used, would it not make the most sense to name the page ブーブーマリオ? Technically it has never officially referred to as Būbū Mario. SGoW^(Talk) 07:01, July 1, 2025 (EDT)

...Then we would have to do that to every single Japanese thing that never received an English name. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:56, July 1, 2025 (EDT)

I don't think converting a name into the writing system that the wiki uses is quite the same thing. And unlike "Heart" here, "Būbū Mario" is supported by policy. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 10:48, July 1, 2025 (EDT)

I'd consider romanizing Japanese names a concession to the primary audience of North Americans, as per the choice to always use American spellings of English words over British ones. And heck, the MarioWiki:Japanese page does favor accuracy over easily typing names on a plain keyboard, and using redirects to fix the latter problem. "For the convenience of editors who cannot easily type vowels with macrons, redirects should be created from titles without macrons to the canonical title. Super Mario Momotaro redirects to Super Mario Momotarō" Similar to Heart (Yoshi's Story) and "♥", right? Salmancer (talk) 15:49, July 1, 2025 (EDT)

@Altendo, @Camwoodstock, @Dominoes, @FanOfYoshi I voiced my complaint about this here, I had no idea who was voting until I clicked on your usernames so for future reference please make your usernames more easily recognisable when voting. Nightwicked Bowser 13:41, July 1, 2025 (EDT)

Aye, fair enough. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 14:06, July 1, 2025 (EDT)

Sorry, my vote name was a joke on my username (Option is also known as Alt, Cancel was meant to mean End, and Zero is a pun on O). Altendo 08:38, July 3, 2025 (EDT)

...do the Oppose votes here think we should move stuff like World 1-Castle (New Super Mario Bros.) to use a symbol too? just curious, cuz nobody brought the symbol-named levels up yet. — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 00:07, July 2, 2025 (EDT)

We made two templates for the purposes of making the names of these levels on the wiki appear exactly as they are displayed in game, including the symbol. Template:World and Template:World link, to be exact. Using them is probably as hard as typing ♥, given that the parameters are intuitive things like "castlen2" for New Super Mario Bros. 2's and "flower2" for Super Mario 3D World's . If the wiki is willing to create these templates to represent the game text as accurately as we can in our prose, then if we could name that page "World 1-Castle" we would. The only reasons I can think of as to why the page is called "World-1 Castle (New Super Mario Bros.)" instead is that we can't name the page "World 1-Castle" because the castle is an image, the level name has never been written in a form where the image is represented with a unicode character, and even if we were to substitute a generic unicode castle character like "⛫" for we would be unable to find a unicode for related yet distinct images like . Next best thing is the text equivalent of the image, as attested in Prima guides or somesuch. Salmancer (talk) 02:10, July 2, 2025 (EDT)

As I said in my vote, it makes sense if there is an actual technical restriction that prevents the use of the symbol in the title, since then it's literally impossible for us to make the name perfectly accurate. ♥ has no such issue preventing us from using it. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 08:05, July 2, 2025 (EDT)

There is no way "it goes hard" is a fair, acceptable reasoning for voting that option. im gonna bring up Rule 7 of proposals here and call it out for outright removal, it blatantly lacks sufficient reasoning - YoYo (Talk) 06:35, July 5, 2025 (EDT)