MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/35: Difference between revisions
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{{MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive Template}} | {{MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/Template}} | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
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{{ProposalOutcome|failed|4-13|don't add navigation boxes}} | {{ProposalOutcome|failed|4-13|don't add navigation boxes}} | ||
I propose we make boxes to navigate through games page/subpages, like this example that might be used in the ''[[Mario Kart Wii]]'' article:<br> | I propose we make boxes to navigate through games page/subpages, like this example that might be used in the ''[[Mario Kart Wii]]'' article:<br> | ||
<div style=" | <div style="border-radius:20px; text-align:center; background:#f0f0f0; margin:.5em 2%; padding:0 1em; border:1px solid lightgray; color:black"> | ||
[[Mario Kart Wii|Game]] • [[Gallery:Mario Kart Wii|Gallery]] • [[List of Mario Kart Wii beta elements|Beta Elements]] • [[List of glitches in Mario Kart Wii|Glitches]] • [[List of Mario Kart Wii staff|Staff]] • [[List of media from Mario Kart Wii|Media]] | [[Mario Kart Wii|Game]] • [[Gallery:Mario Kart Wii|Gallery]] • [[List of Mario Kart Wii beta elements|Beta Elements]] • [[List of glitches in Mario Kart Wii|Glitches]] • [[List of Mario Kart Wii staff|Staff]] • [[List of media from Mario Kart Wii|Media]] | ||
</div> | </div> | ||
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:'''''Draft:''' [[User:GBAToad/sandbox]]'' | :'''''Draft:''' [[User:GBAToad/sandbox]]'' | ||
In regards to consistency, there has been a lot of lenience given to '''galleries'''. It was only very recently that we [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 32#Reorganize Galleries|addressed a significant problem with their organisation]], but in my opinion, there are multiple other issues with the way galleries are structured and formatted which also need to be fixed. | In regards to consistency, there has been a lot of lenience given to '''galleries'''. It was only very recently that we [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/32#Reorganize Galleries|addressed a significant problem with their organisation]], but in my opinion, there are multiple other issues with the way galleries are structured and formatted which also need to be fixed. | ||
To clarify, there is a clear difference between newer galleries (such as [[Gallery:Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D|this]] and [[Gallery:New Super Luigi U|this]]) and older galleries (such as [[Gallery:DK: Jungle Climber|this]] and [[Gallery:Mario Party 7|this]]). Newer galleries seem to follow a much higher standard than their older counterparts, which makes them look better in comparison. Newer galleries are also much more consistent with each other than older galleries are. I believe that this inconsistency between galleries is due to the lack of a detailed gallery policy page with a set of rules that all galleries should follow. | To clarify, there is a clear difference between newer galleries (such as [[Gallery:Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D|this]] and [[Gallery:New Super Luigi U|this]]) and older galleries (such as [[Gallery:DK: Jungle Climber|this]] and [[Gallery:Mario Party 7|this]]). Newer galleries seem to follow a much higher standard than their older counterparts, which makes them look better in comparison. Newer galleries are also much more consistent with each other than older galleries are. I believe that this inconsistency between galleries is due to the lack of a detailed gallery policy page with a set of rules that all galleries should follow. | ||
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'''''Some'' things I've included:''' | '''''Some'' things I've included:''' | ||
*''The current organisation standard'', which includes a new section dedicated to printed media. It also makes it clear that screenshots from animation (such as ''[[The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3]]'') should be included on subject galleries as per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 34#Add images unrelated to games in the subject's gallery|this proposal]]. | *''The current organisation standard'', which includes a new section dedicated to printed media. It also makes it clear that screenshots from animation (such as ''[[The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3]]'') should be included on subject galleries as per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/34#Add images unrelated to games in the subject's gallery|this proposal]]. | ||
*''Formatting standards''. There needs to be some consistency with the alignment of images and use of headers. Some galleries use <nowiki><center></nowiki> and some galleries don't. It is clear that the wiki favours using <nowiki><center></nowiki> and Header 2 (==) for sections. | *''Formatting standards''. There needs to be some consistency with the alignment of images and use of headers. Some galleries use <nowiki><center></nowiki> and some galleries don't. It is clear that the wiki favours using <nowiki><center></nowiki> and Header 2 (==) for sections. | ||
*''Definitions'' for each section and what it contains. I've also included definitions for the three types of galleries and the differences between them (such as the amount of pictures they need to contain). This will help avoid any confusion when adding images to sections and when creating subsections. | *''Definitions'' for each section and what it contains. I've also included definitions for the three types of galleries and the differences between them (such as the amount of pictures they need to contain). This will help avoid any confusion when adding images to sections and when creating subsections. | ||
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''@Banon'' It's the first bullet point of the "Proper Formatting" section. {{User|GBAToad}} 09:08, 29 June 2013 (EDT) | ''@Banon'' It's the first bullet point of the "Proper Formatting" section. {{User|GBAToad}} 09:08, 29 June 2013 (EDT) | ||
:Oh, ok, I thought it didn't refer to the intros. — {{User|Banon}} | :Oh, ok, I thought it didn't refer to the intros. — {{User|Banon}} | ||
:The topic has been discussed on the forum, and we decided we will add a section for the standard to the [[MarioWiki: | :The topic has been discussed on the forum, and we decided we will add a section for the standard to the [[MarioWiki:Lists]]. So maybe, you could link there. — {{User|Banon}} | ||
::Done. Thanks for the tip. {{User|GBAToad}} | ::Done. Thanks for the tip. {{User|GBAToad}} | ||
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'''@TimeTurner:''' Please don't bring political agendas into this. The wiki is international, that's why we allow both American and British spelling, among other things. Going with the North American titles and the date format primarily used in the States ''isn't'' about "Americanizing" the wiki ''at all''. The former is to make it easier for the most number of potential readers to find us with their Google searchers, and my argument (in addition to the subjective looks call) for this matter is similar: use the date format used by the most editors. Since the bulk of the wiki's userbase and reader traffic is from (North) America, that means the (North) American standards are the ones that will best serve the most people. It's demographics and the popular vote, not political at all, and dragging those sorts of issues into things is nothing but a recipe for disaster. - {{User|Walkazo}} | '''@TimeTurner:''' Please don't bring political agendas into this. The wiki is international, that's why we allow both American and British spelling, among other things. Going with the North American titles and the date format primarily used in the States ''isn't'' about "Americanizing" the wiki ''at all''. The former is to make it easier for the most number of potential readers to find us with their Google searchers, and my argument (in addition to the subjective looks call) for this matter is similar: use the date format used by the most editors. Since the bulk of the wiki's userbase and reader traffic is from (North) America, that means the (North) American standards are the ones that will best serve the most people. It's demographics and the popular vote, not political at all, and dragging those sorts of issues into things is nothing but a recipe for disaster. - {{User|Walkazo}} | ||
:I... what? You have me completely at a loss, Walkazo. {{User|Time Turner}} | :I... what? You have me completely at a loss, Walkazo. {{User|Time Turner}} | ||
::Look up the old First English Name vs. North American Name [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | ::Look up the old First English Name vs. North American Name [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/12#Use_First_Official_English_Title_for_Articles|proposals]], or even [[MarioWiki talk:Naming|the comments here]]. The last thing any objective wiki discussion needs is to get sidetracked by any sort of political chatter, including terms like "Americanization", which can inspire rather strong feelings on either side of the argument. Besides, we're ''not'' trying to Americanize the wiki, and so, that's ''not'' why anyone should support or oppose the MDY format. - {{User|Walkazo}} | ||
:::I... didn't realize that "Americanize" is a political term, nor that it would actually cause political arguments. I know next to nothing about anything politics-related, and since I've apparently, I do apologize. {{User|Time Turner}} | :::I... didn't realize that "Americanize" is a political term, nor that it would actually cause political arguments. I know next to nothing about anything politics-related, and since I've apparently, I do apologize. {{User|Time Turner}} | ||
::::No worries: if I hadn't seen arguments flare up over that sorta thing many a time already, I probably wouldn't think it'd be something to avoid either. So no need to apologize - you just might want to rephrase your vote, is all. - {{User|Walkazo}} | ::::No worries: if I hadn't seen arguments flare up over that sorta thing many a time already, I probably wouldn't think it'd be something to avoid either. So no need to apologize - you just might want to rephrase your vote, is all. - {{User|Walkazo}} | ||
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It would be useful to have subsections at the bottom of the History sections to group all the random data-deficient appearances (rather than littering the place with section-stubs), as well as things that wouldn't really fit in the History proper, like merchandise, commercials, references and cameos. Right now, they're already used on the [[Mario]], [[Luigi]], [[Princess Peach]], [[Wario]], [[Thwomp]] and [[Bowser]] articles (and maybe others too), and on a whole, seem to work well. However, the Bowser page has a rewrite template calling for the removal of the section, which is what brings me here. Currently, there's no policy about this type of section: it's just something that's been done informally, but I think that should change. | It would be useful to have subsections at the bottom of the History sections to group all the random data-deficient appearances (rather than littering the place with section-stubs), as well as things that wouldn't really fit in the History proper, like merchandise, commercials, references and cameos. Right now, they're already used on the [[Mario]], [[Luigi]], [[Princess Peach]], [[Wario]], [[Thwomp]] and [[Bowser]] articles (and maybe others too), and on a whole, seem to work well. However, the Bowser page has a rewrite template calling for the removal of the section, which is what brings me here. Currently, there's no policy about this type of section: it's just something that's been done informally, but I think that should change. | ||
The style of these sections should follow the example on Bowser's article: nice, full paragraphs that group related bits of information (lump the games, lump the merchandise, give the "How to Draw" books a separate paragraph, etc.), as opposed to a bulleted list like Peach's page, which looks lazy and sloppy and should be avoided. Bowser's page also has a few subsections: the ''Wreck-It Ralph'' one is a good idea since the movie's pretty notable and folks are likely going to look for info about it; the others are about series in which Bowser has made multiple cameos/references, which is okay, although the Thwomp page is a better example of this practice, as it makes full use of its ''Zelda'' subsection, with multiple, information-rich paragraphs. However, even though there's a lot of into, they're still just cameos: [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Guest Appearances|"guest appearances"]] should still be incorporated into the History whenever possible, like how Wario's ''Densetsu no Stafy 3'' appearance is nestled in his page's History, while things like the ''PM:TTYD'' badge are in the "Other Appearances" section. Similarly, while putting data-deficient ''Mario'' series games in these grab-bag sections is better than nothing, the hope is still that if enough info ''can'' be collected to make sections worth reading, it'll be done. It's also worth noting that while things like ''Super Mario-Kun'' and other obscure publications ''are'' likely to land in these sections more often than not, it's not meant to be a return to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | The style of these sections should follow the example on Bowser's article: nice, full paragraphs that group related bits of information (lump the games, lump the merchandise, give the "How to Draw" books a separate paragraph, etc.), as opposed to a bulleted list like Peach's page, which looks lazy and sloppy and should be avoided. Bowser's page also has a few subsections: the ''Wreck-It Ralph'' one is a good idea since the movie's pretty notable and folks are likely going to look for info about it; the others are about series in which Bowser has made multiple cameos/references, which is okay, although the Thwomp page is a better example of this practice, as it makes full use of its ''Zelda'' subsection, with multiple, information-rich paragraphs. However, even though there's a lot of into, they're still just cameos: [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Guest Appearances|"guest appearances"]] should still be incorporated into the History whenever possible, like how Wario's ''Densetsu no Stafy 3'' appearance is nestled in his page's History, while things like the ''PM:TTYD'' badge are in the "Other Appearances" section. Similarly, while putting data-deficient ''Mario'' series games in these grab-bag sections is better than nothing, the hope is still that if enough info ''can'' be collected to make sections worth reading, it'll be done. It's also worth noting that while things like ''Super Mario-Kun'' and other obscure publications ''are'' likely to land in these sections more often than not, it's not meant to be a return to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/11#Article_Organization_Standard|ye olden days]] of separating appearances by media: merchandise (including ''[[Nintendo Monopoly]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Chess]]'') is really the only medium that ''should'' be limited to "Other Appearances" (for obvious reasons). | ||
Finally, as seen in the examples, the name's not consistent. The ''goal'' would be to call the sections "Other appearances, cameos and references", but if (for example) there are ''only'' cameos and references (like on Thwomp's page), it'd be more accurate to call the section "Cameos and references", and if no cameos or references have been added to the section (yet), it could simply be called "Other Appearances" for the time being. If this proposal passes, the name, the structure and the content of these sections will all be outlined in a paragraph added to the History section of the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style#History|Manual of Style]], thereby making these handy sections official and welcome on the wiki. | Finally, as seen in the examples, the name's not consistent. The ''goal'' would be to call the sections "Other appearances, cameos and references", but if (for example) there are ''only'' cameos and references (like on Thwomp's page), it'd be more accurate to call the section "Cameos and references", and if no cameos or references have been added to the section (yet), it could simply be called "Other Appearances" for the time being. If this proposal passes, the name, the structure and the content of these sections will all be outlined in a paragraph added to the History section of the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style#History|Manual of Style]], thereby making these handy sections official and welcome on the wiki. | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
Why are we having this proposal again? Just merge them: 9/10 of the opposers of [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | Why are we having this proposal again? Just merge them: 9/10 of the opposers of [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/34#Get_rid_of_pointless_Mario_Party_Minigames_beginnings_and_endings|the last proposal]] essentially voted for that option already when they per'd me (including "per all" votes, since "all" ''were'' pering me - until the last vote, at any rate, and not including RAP's comment). That should be enough of a show of support to go through with the change. - {{User|Walkazo}} | ||
:I want to make sure I don't do something that the other users don't like. {{User|Gonzales Kart Inc.}} | :I want to make sure I don't do something that the other users don't like. {{User|Gonzales Kart Inc.}} | ||
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Yeah, sorry about that. For the record / just so others can see, this is what you tried to add (including your initial comment down here, which ''shouldn't'' have been removed on you): | Yeah, sorry about that. For the record / just so others can see, this is what you tried to add (including your initial comment down here, which ''shouldn't'' have been removed on you): | ||
<blockquote>'''Addendum''': Of course, this doesn't mean that they should be removed from the articles entirely, per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | <blockquote>'''Addendum''': Of course, this doesn't mean that they should be removed from the articles entirely, per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/35#Other_Appearances.2C_Cameos_and_References_sections|this proposal]] they should be listed under the "Other Appearances, Cameos and References" section.<br><br> | ||
:::Okay, I'll add that in. This proposal was never about removing them from articles entirely. [[User:Aokage|Aokage]] ([[User talk:Aokage|talk]]) 13:00, 17 July 2013 (EDT) | :::Okay, I'll add that in. This proposal was never about removing them from articles entirely. [[User:Aokage|Aokage]] ([[User talk:Aokage|talk]]) 13:00, 17 July 2013 (EDT) | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
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The vast majority of our navigational templates (templates that serve as an index of sorts for a certain subject) for games follow a specific format for its title: the beginning is always "Template:", and what subsequently follows is an abbreviation of the game's title. This is what's used for almost all of our game's templates ([[Template:MK7]], [[Template:YI]], [[Template:SMG]], and others). However, this is only used for ''almost'' all of our game's templates. There are several titles out there that use the full version of their game's title for their template's title ([[Template:WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$!]], [[Template:Super Mario Bros. 3]], [[Template:Mario Superstar Baseball]], and others), which, from my point of view, is a fair bit inconsistent. This is something that I would like to change. | The vast majority of our navigational templates (templates that serve as an index of sorts for a certain subject) for games follow a specific format for its title: the beginning is always "Template:", and what subsequently follows is an abbreviation of the game's title. This is what's used for almost all of our game's templates ([[Template:MK7]], [[Template:YI]], [[Template:SMG]], and others). However, this is only used for ''almost'' all of our game's templates. There are several titles out there that use the full version of their game's title for their template's title ([[Template:WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$!]], [[Template:Super Mario Bros. 3]], [[Template:Mario Superstar Baseball]], and others), which, from my point of view, is a fair bit inconsistent. This is something that I would like to change. | ||
Another point I'd like to bring up is subcategories of nav. templates: when a certain aspect of a game becomes too large to fit into a standard template (such as levels or minigames), it often gets put into its own template. The names of these often follow the same rules with "Template:(game name) [aspect]", such as [[Template:NSLU | Another point I'd like to bring up is subcategories of nav. templates: when a certain aspect of a game becomes too large to fit into a standard template (such as levels or minigames), it often gets put into its own template. The names of these often follow the same rules with "Template:(game name) [aspect]", such as [[Template:NSLU levels]] and [[Template:WarioWare: D.I.Y. Microgames]], but there are some that are non-indicative of what game it covers, such as [[Template:Baseballpowerups]] and [[Template:MK battle courses]], and others that don't even mention what aspect it covers, such as [[Template:Doubledash]], [[Template:SMG missions|Template:Galaxy]], and [[Template:Gadd]], which I find both inconsistent and just odd. This is something else that I would like to change. | ||
So, I want to propose a simple standard for the names of these templates. For starters, all game-centric navigation templates would have use an abbreviation of the game's name, so [[Template:Mario Pinball Land]] would become Template:MPL, [[Template:Mario Super Sluggers]] would become Template:MSS, and so on. For templates that cover larger aspects of a game, they would use both the abbrevation and the aspect that they're covering, so [[Template:WarioWare: Smooth Moves Microgames]] would become Template:WWSM Microgames, [[Template:Galaxy2]] would become Template:SMG2 Levels, [[Template:Mario Party 1]] would become Template:MP Minigames, and so on. For games that share an abbreviation, such as ''[[Yoshi's Story]]'' and ''[[Yoshi's Safari]]'', they can't both have Template:YS, so as an alternative, the first few words of the title would be abbreviated, while the final word would remain in its full form. Thus, we would have Template:YStory, Template:YSafari, and so on. Just about every template can conform to these rules, and the biggest problem here would probably be changing all the links, but in the grand scheme of things, that's really not that big of a deal. | So, I want to propose a simple standard for the names of these templates. For starters, all game-centric navigation templates would have use an abbreviation of the game's name, so [[Template:Mario Pinball Land]] would become Template:MPL, [[Template:Mario Super Sluggers]] would become Template:MSS, and so on. For templates that cover larger aspects of a game, they would use both the abbrevation and the aspect that they're covering, so [[Template:WarioWare: Smooth Moves Microgames]] would become Template:WWSM Microgames, [[Template:SMG2 missions|Template:Galaxy2]] would become Template:SMG2 Levels, [[Template:Mario Party 1]] would become Template:MP Minigames, and so on. For games that share an abbreviation, such as ''[[Yoshi's Story]]'' and ''[[Yoshi's Safari]]'', they can't both have Template:YS, so as an alternative, the first few words of the title would be abbreviated, while the final word would remain in its full form. Thus, we would have Template:YStory, Template:YSafari, and so on. Just about every template can conform to these rules, and the biggest problem here would probably be changing all the links, but in the grand scheme of things, that's really not that big of a deal. | ||
I understand that this may not be the biggest issue on the wiki, but nevertheless, this is still an issue, and it's something that I think should be dealt with, for the sake of consistency. | I understand that this may not be the biggest issue on the wiki, but nevertheless, this is still an issue, and it's something that I think should be dealt with, for the sake of consistency. | ||
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===Remove references from "Appearances" sections on character pages=== | ===Remove references from "Appearances" sections on character pages=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|7-0|remove them}} | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|7-0|remove them}} | ||
''(Re-listing this, since it was "no quorum". See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | ''(Re-listing this, since it was "no quorum". See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/35#Remove_indirect_appearances_and_name-only_references_from_the_.22Appearances.22_sections_on_character_pages|here]] for the archived proposal)'' | ||
So, I was looking at the [[Wart#Video_Game_Appearances|appearances section on the Wart page]] and noticed that for some reason he's listed as having appeared in games that only referenced his name. We include Stickers and Trophies on these sections, but I don't think a character should be listed as having appeared in a game just because his/her name is mentioned/referenced. Then there's his so-called "indirect appearances" in the Animal Crossing games, just because there's a character called Wart Jr. I don't believe these type of references should be included on the Appearances sections on any character pages, so I'm proposing that we remove them. | So, I was looking at the [[Wart#Video_Game_Appearances|appearances section on the Wart page]] and noticed that for some reason he's listed as having appeared in games that only referenced his name. We include Stickers and Trophies on these sections, but I don't think a character should be listed as having appeared in a game just because his/her name is mentioned/referenced. Then there's his so-called "indirect appearances" in the Animal Crossing games, just because there's a character called Wart Jr. I don't believe these type of references should be included on the Appearances sections on any character pages, so I'm proposing that we remove them. | ||
Of course, this doesn't mean that they should be removed from the articles entirely, per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | Of course, this doesn't mean that they should be removed from the articles entirely, per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/35#Other_Appearances.2C_Cameos_and_References_sections|this proposal]] they should be listed under the "Other Appearances, Cameos and References" section. | ||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Aokage}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|Aokage}}<br> | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
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You will need to bring this to [[User:Porplemontage|Porplemontage]].{{User|Megadardery}} 11:20, 28 July 2013 (EDT) | You will need to bring this to [[User:Porplemontage|Porplemontage]].{{User|Megadardery}} 11:20, 28 July 2013 (EDT) | ||
Please use the Month DD YYYY format for deadline dates per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | Please use the Month DD YYYY format for deadline dates per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/35#Impose_a_standard_for_dates|this proposal]]. Thanks. {{User|Gonzales Kart Inc.}} | ||
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Latest revision as of 07:40, May 10, 2022
Add all nozzle locationscanceled by proposer Proposer: BoygeyMario (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsI don't think that require a proposal.Megadardery (talk)17:06, 27 June 2013 (EDT)
Add a spoilers templatecanceled by proposer Proposer: Robecuba (talk) SupportOpposeCommentsdon't add navigation boxes 4-13 These boxes can be placed on top of the pages to make navigation simpler than looking for sections inside the articles (even because in some pages they are spread in a confusing way). With this, we can erase incomplete or empty sections with "Main Article: List of [such game] beta elements" or "Main Article: List of glitches in [such game]" and things like this being all the text in them (like this and this). As I said with the comment below, the box can sum every of these sections (gallery, beta elements, glitches, media, staff and quotes) in one line, so we won't need the sections just to mention the subpages exist. See this example. Proposer: Ultra Koopa (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsBut, wait, don't we have the Table of Contents for that? LeftyGreenMario (talk)
Ugly? Distracting? In my opinion, it's far better than sections that take unnecessary space. MegaKoopa (talk)
Create pages "Remake" and "port"canceled by proposer Proposer: Mariotime11 (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsIf we're going to create terms like that, would it be an idea to also create an article 'Game'. It may be obvious to everyone what it is, but still. Yoshi876 (talk) In my opinion, having the terms on the Glossary should be enough. --Tucayo (talk)
It is kind of obvious what the terms mean, but the main reason for creating them would be to list examples from the Mario series. Mariotime11 (talk) This poll should be for "port" only, considering there already is a remake page. Aokage (talk) Create an archive system for Talk Page Proposalscanceled by proposer Should this proposal pass then the Category Settled TPPs would be deleted as it would be made redundant. Proposer: Yoshi876 (talk) Have archive systemKeep how it is
CommentsI'm not sure if this is exactly necessary because finding talk page proposals isn't as much as a guessing game as finding main page proposals. The problem with main page proposals archive system is that the archives used to be listed by links to Archive 1, Archive 2, Archive 3, and so on, while talk page proposals can be found on the talk page if you want to refer to them. The changes the talk page proposal require is usually only on the main article related to the talk while main page affects a broader spectrum, which means that it's not that often you have to refer to talk page proposals compared to main page ones. It's nice to have all archives in one spot, but, again, I'm not sure if it's necessary. LeftyGreenMario (talk)
@Walkazo Just because it only affects certain pages doesn't make it any less important, I know that's not what you're saying, but still, and the way the category is set up means that a user would have to scroll through the page to find a TPP this makes it easier to find and that and the fact I feel it makes the wiki look a bit more professional is why I don't think it's unnecessary. Yoshi876 (talk)
Guidelines for what is a reference and what is nottoo vague 1-8 Proposer: SuperYoshiBros (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsPlease specify your guideline? Baby Luigi (talk)
Why is this under "Removals"? Aokage (talk)
I'll make a draft soon, and then I'll start the proposal again. Sorry for the misunderstanding! SuperYoshiBros (talk) Do not allow subpages to be featuredcanceled by proposer Proposer: Gonzales Kart Inc. (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsBy subpages do you mean ones like List of Paper Mario beta elements? Yoshi876 (talk)
Can someone archive this? I'm withdrawing it. Gonzales Kart Inc. (talk) Create policy page for galleriescreate policy page 16-0
In regards to consistency, there has been a lot of lenience given to galleries. It was only very recently that we addressed a significant problem with their organisation, but in my opinion, there are multiple other issues with the way galleries are structured and formatted which also need to be fixed. To clarify, there is a clear difference between newer galleries (such as this and this) and older galleries (such as this and this). Newer galleries seem to follow a much higher standard than their older counterparts, which makes them look better in comparison. Newer galleries are also much more consistent with each other than older galleries are. I believe that this inconsistency between galleries is due to the lack of a detailed gallery policy page with a set of rules that all galleries should follow. I'm proposing that we enforce this new policy page which will apply a comprehensive standard to all galleries to maintain their appearance and structure. There are some fantastic examples of galleries out there, and these should be used to set the standard for all galleries new and old. Thus, using galleries such as these as a guideline, I have expanded on what is present on the Help:Gallery page (namely just the bottom bit) to include other important formatting rules that (if followed) should keep all galleries looking neat and constant with the majority. Most of what I've mentioned is already standard in most galleries, but having a written outline should make maintaining all galleries much easier. Some things I've included:
(Note: This policy won't replace the Help:Gallery page, it will be created under the title MarioWiki:Galleries.) Proposer: GBAToad (talk) (with ideas from Walkazo (talk)) Support
OpposeComments@Banon It's the first bullet point of the "Proper Formatting" section. GBAToad (talk) 09:08, 29 June 2013 (EDT)
Impose a standard for datesuse "month dd, yyy" format 12-4 Month DD, YYYY TT:TT (GMT) | July 13, 2013 23:59 GMT Proposer: LeftyGreenMario (talk) Month DD, YYYY
DD Month YYYY
CommentsWhy does the time have to be first in the second option? I prefer DD Month YYYY to Month DD, YYYY, but I'd like the time to be after that because it's always the same and the date is the important part. Aokage (talk) 15:57, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
Walkazo: The numbers aren't mixed. They're ordered by the the smallest time frame to the largest one without punctuation. I think this notation is preferred in formal works, and I think this reminds me of how the U.S. uses the customary system, but most scientists (including those in the U.S.) prefer metric. According to the article you listed, more and more written works are written as this format as well. This format also eliminates ambiguity, which is the purpose of that format. I'm not calling for an immediate change in the archive system, though, but Walkazo, if you're calling for that first one, you have to change the signature formatting and the FA dates as well. Either way, something's being changed. LeftyGreenMario (talk)
I'd like to go for ISO 8601: YYYY-MM-DD (hh:mm:ss). I think it's a bit more logical because year < month < day < hour < minute < second. — Banon (talk) @TimeTurner: Please don't bring political agendas into this. The wiki is international, that's why we allow both American and British spelling, among other things. Going with the North American titles and the date format primarily used in the States isn't about "Americanizing" the wiki at all. The former is to make it easier for the most number of potential readers to find us with their Google searchers, and my argument (in addition to the subjective looks call) for this matter is similar: use the date format used by the most editors. Since the bulk of the wiki's userbase and reader traffic is from (North) America, that means the (North) American standards are the ones that will best serve the most people. It's demographics and the popular vote, not political at all, and dragging those sorts of issues into things is nothing but a recipe for disaster. - Walkazo (talk)
Other Appearances, Cameos and References sectionsallow sections 12-0 The style of these sections should follow the example on Bowser's article: nice, full paragraphs that group related bits of information (lump the games, lump the merchandise, give the "How to Draw" books a separate paragraph, etc.), as opposed to a bulleted list like Peach's page, which looks lazy and sloppy and should be avoided. Bowser's page also has a few subsections: the Wreck-It Ralph one is a good idea since the movie's pretty notable and folks are likely going to look for info about it; the others are about series in which Bowser has made multiple cameos/references, which is okay, although the Thwomp page is a better example of this practice, as it makes full use of its Zelda subsection, with multiple, information-rich paragraphs. However, even though there's a lot of into, they're still just cameos: "guest appearances" should still be incorporated into the History whenever possible, like how Wario's Densetsu no Stafy 3 appearance is nestled in his page's History, while things like the PM:TTYD badge are in the "Other Appearances" section. Similarly, while putting data-deficient Mario series games in these grab-bag sections is better than nothing, the hope is still that if enough info can be collected to make sections worth reading, it'll be done. It's also worth noting that while things like Super Mario-Kun and other obscure publications are likely to land in these sections more often than not, it's not meant to be a return to ye olden days of separating appearances by media: merchandise (including Nintendo Monopoly and Super Mario Chess) is really the only medium that should be limited to "Other Appearances" (for obvious reasons). Finally, as seen in the examples, the name's not consistent. The goal would be to call the sections "Other appearances, cameos and references", but if (for example) there are only cameos and references (like on Thwomp's page), it'd be more accurate to call the section "Cameos and references", and if no cameos or references have been added to the section (yet), it could simply be called "Other Appearances" for the time being. If this proposal passes, the name, the structure and the content of these sections will all be outlined in a paragraph added to the History section of the Manual of Style, thereby making these handy sections official and welcome on the wiki. Proposer: Walkazo (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsPaper Mario: Sticker Star Level Pagesdo not standardize this format 2-4 Suggested Normal Level Page Format: *Not relevant for all pages A few sentence into NOTE: Some special levels like Bowser's Sky Castle will take away many sections or add in specialized sections for that particular level
*Not relevant for all pages
Support
Oppose
Comments"Shop Levels" are things like Shaved-Ice Cave, right? Seems like they wouldn't even need History/Layout sections at all, or is that article actually lacking in a lot of info? I haven't played the game yet, so I wouldn't know... - Walkazo (talk)
Do Something with the Mario Party One-liner sectionsno quorum 0-1-0 Proposer: Gonzales Kart Inc. (talk) (third option suggested by Walkazo (talk)) Get Rid of ThemIncorporate them into the Main Sections
OpposeCommentsWhy are we having this proposal again? Just merge them: 9/10 of the opposers of the last proposal essentially voted for that option already when they per'd me (including "per all" votes, since "all" were pering me - until the last vote, at any rate, and not including RAP's comment). That should be enough of a show of support to go through with the change. - Walkazo (talk)
Featured Imageno featured image on the main page 1-9 Proposer: Mario7 (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsDue to my going to sleep after posting this, you are aware that we voted to delete this ages ago for some odd reason. It kight be wise to see why, so you can try and convince those who voted to remove it why it should be back. Yoshi876 (talk) YoshiKong: I read the archived proposal and I have a plan to fix it. Mario7 (talk) Remove indirect appearances and name-only references from the "Appearances" sections on character pagesno quorum 2-0 Proposer: Aokage (talk) SupportOpposeCommentsThe "Wart Jr." thing is even debatable if it really references Wart or not. I mean, I'm pretty sure "Wart" would be a pretty common name to name a toad. Baby Luigi (talk)
The Animal Crossing ones should definitely be removed, but I think it's plausible for the "Cyber Wart" comic in Super Paper Mario to be a reference to Wart himself. The Brawl one could also be an actual reference. --Tucayo (talk)
Yeah, sorry about that. For the record / just so others can see, this is what you tried to add (including your initial comment down here, which shouldn't have been removed on you):
Inconsistencies with Template Nameshave a naming standard 6-0 Another point I'd like to bring up is subcategories of nav. templates: when a certain aspect of a game becomes too large to fit into a standard template (such as levels or minigames), it often gets put into its own template. The names of these often follow the same rules with "Template:(game name) [aspect]", such as Template:NSLU levels and Template:WarioWare: D.I.Y. Microgames, but there are some that are non-indicative of what game it covers, such as Template:Baseballpowerups and Template:MK battle courses, and others that don't even mention what aspect it covers, such as Template:Doubledash, Template:Galaxy, and Template:Gadd, which I find both inconsistent and just odd. This is something else that I would like to change. So, I want to propose a simple standard for the names of these templates. For starters, all game-centric navigation templates would have use an abbreviation of the game's name, so Template:Mario Pinball Land would become Template:MPL, Template:Mario Super Sluggers would become Template:MSS, and so on. For templates that cover larger aspects of a game, they would use both the abbrevation and the aspect that they're covering, so Template:WarioWare: Smooth Moves Microgames would become Template:WWSM Microgames, Template:Galaxy2 would become Template:SMG2 Levels, Template:Mario Party 1 would become Template:MP Minigames, and so on. For games that share an abbreviation, such as Yoshi's Story and Yoshi's Safari, they can't both have Template:YS, so as an alternative, the first few words of the title would be abbreviated, while the final word would remain in its full form. Thus, we would have Template:YStory, Template:YSafari, and so on. Just about every template can conform to these rules, and the biggest problem here would probably be changing all the links, but in the grand scheme of things, that's really not that big of a deal. I understand that this may not be the biggest issue on the wiki, but nevertheless, this is still an issue, and it's something that I think should be dealt with, for the sake of consistency. Proposer: Time Turner (talk) Make the changes
Do not make the changesCommentsRather than random truncation, names that share the same abbreviation should just be written out in full. Similarly, any other cases where abbreviations or shorthand would create ambiguity should be avoided (i.e. "tem:MP1 Minigames" is better than "tem:MP Minigames", since the latter could refer to the series), and while the emphasis is on making template names short, making them clear is still number one priority. There should also be explicit allowances for "species"-type templates getting whatever names work (speaking of which, the two galaxy templates have always struck me more as species templates than level templates to account of how specialized their designs are - just a thought). I also think you're underselling the amount of work updating all the links is gonna be, and while having a guide definitely names sense, it shouldn't be something that should be enforced to the letter especially not retroactively and when dealing with tricky cases like shared abbreviations or cases where more than one abbreviation is understandable. Heck, part of me even wants to argue that the current mix isn't dysfunctional and readers won't see any difference anyway, and so our efforts might be better spent elsewhere, while old titles simply get grandfathered through... - Walkazo (talk)
Remove references from "Appearances" sections on character pagesremove them 7-0 So, I was looking at the appearances section on the Wart page and noticed that for some reason he's listed as having appeared in games that only referenced his name. We include Stickers and Trophies on these sections, but I don't think a character should be listed as having appeared in a game just because his/her name is mentioned/referenced. Then there's his so-called "indirect appearances" in the Animal Crossing games, just because there's a character called Wart Jr. I don't believe these type of references should be included on the Appearances sections on any character pages, so I'm proposing that we remove them. Of course, this doesn't mean that they should be removed from the articles entirely, per this proposal they should be listed under the "Other Appearances, Cameos and References" section. Proposer: Aokage (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsDocument "Regional Differences" in game pages, and create a policy page for themdocument regional differences 18-0 This project is pretty self-explanatory. Basically, the idea of this project is to document changes made to a game during localization, re-releases, ports, etc. These changes can include anything from different placement of coins or items to drastic gameplay changes or even characters being added in later versions of a game, such as Metal Mario being added for the North American version of the game Mario Golf, for example. As explained on the draft for the policy page and the example following it, we would create sections for "Regional differences" in the pages of games that have them, and further organize them into subcategories that include "Gameplay changes", "Level design changes", "Graphical changes", and "Textual changes". Of course, if there are changes made to other aspects of the game in question, such as changes in the soundtrack of the game, additional sections can be created to properly document them. Proposer: ThePremiumYoshi (talk) and Walkazo (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsWithout going full plagiarism, maybe we could use this - Banon (talk)
Should unused game files existing in some versions be included as regional differences? The Japanese version of Super Mario Sunshine contains message.szs, which is an unused file not present in other versions.--Holyromanemperortatan (talk) 18:53, 28 July 2013 (EDT)
Separate Broken File Linksprevent userspace pages from being included in category 2-3-0 Proposer: Mario7 (talk) Create Sub-Category for Userspace Pages
Prevent userspace pages from being included in category
Keep As-IsCommentsYou will need to bring this to Porplemontage.Megadardery (talk) 11:20, 28 July 2013 (EDT) Please use the Month DD YYYY format for deadline dates per this proposal. Thanks. Gonzales Kart Inc. (talk) Remove Select Level Image Mapskeep select level image maps 9-12
I read her comment and I totally agree with her, And yeah, Navigation Templates will do the trick for them, and If we must keep something, I'd like to keep the Icons, But remove the templates. By removing I mean the following templates: {{NSMB2map}}, {{NSMBmap}}, {{SMW2YI Map}}, {{YISMA3 Map}} and {{YIDS Map}}. Proposer: Megadardery (talk) (Walkazo's Idea) Support
Oppose
CommentsIs it really necessary to get rid of them? They look really nice and don't make too much of a clutter. --Tucayo (talk) 15:03, 6 August 2013 (EDT) What's the point of keeping the icons? Yoshi876 (talk)
Stuff like {{Beamap}}, {{PitMKmap}}, {{BisMKmap}}, and {{Bowsermap}}, also feel a bit pointless for me other than showing off. In the sections of the articles they appear in, it feels redundant, but preferably, I'd like the links of the locations in the article get removed, not the picture. LeftyGreenMario (talk)
@ParaLemmy1234: What you mean with that? I'm talking about linear games maps (just icons) not other maps (real location).Megadardery (talk) Moving pages like "Cat Mario" to "Cat Form" and sodo not move 3-10 Proposer: Kuzey457 (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsIf this passes, will {{diff}} have to be deleted? driftmaster130 (talk)
Stupid question, but is the name "Tanooki form" and "Fire form" ever used? LeftyGreenMario (talk) I won't vote now, but isn't "Fire form" a conjecture name? - Megadardery (talk)
Little note: I had to edit the way the proposer put his username so there was a link to his user talk page. If you must, change it back, but I'm pretty sure that's the rules. Gonzales Kart Inc. (talk) |