MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/65: Difference between revisions
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I see the new option. How will [[:Category:Videos]] be affected? {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:18, January 29, 2024 (EST) | I see the new option. How will [[:Category:Videos]] be affected? {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:18, January 29, 2024 (EST) | ||
:...That's a category??? And we thought we had seen everything. We think there could be potential to rework "video" as a category seeing as that's such a generic term, but also considering the current state of the category as well as the state for other non-web video categories (namely film and television series), we're not sure what the best course of action is. We could maybe convert Video into something like our baseline Games category is at the moment, but we feel like that might start leaving the scope of this proposal... {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:09, January 29, 2024 (EST) | :...That's a category??? And we thought we had seen everything. We think there could be potential to rework "video" as a category seeing as that's such a generic term, but also considering the current state of the category as well as the state for other non-web video categories (namely film and television series), we're not sure what the best course of action is. We could maybe convert Video into something like our baseline Games category is at the moment, but we feel like that might start leaving the scope of this proposal... {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:09, January 29, 2024 (EST) | ||
===Broaden the scope of the <nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki> template=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|7-0|Broaden the scope}} | |||
Currently, the licensing template used for photographs uploaded to the wiki is [[:Template:Promo-photo]], henceforth referred to as <nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki>. All photographs uploaded to the wiki are listed under the template's corresponding category, [[:Category:Promotional photos]]. This template is supposedly only meant to be used for publicity photos "known to have come from a press kit"; however, a ''lot'' of the photos in this category, most commonly images of [[List of merchandise|merchandise]], were taken by ordinary people who have no relation to a formal organization for news or media distribution; to put it simply, many images with this template don't come from a press kit. | |||
I'm convinced that <nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki> is simply the equivalent of Wikipedia's {{wp|Template:Non-free promotional}}, which went largely unchanged when it was copied to the Super Mario Wiki. However, the wikis are significantly different in their media policies: Wikipedia is {{wp|Wikipedia:File copyright tags/Non-free|far more strict}} on usage of copyrighted media than this wiki, which is centered around a copyrighted franchise. More importantly, it just doesn't feel right that <nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki>'s description doesn't match the majority of images which use it. I was originally thinking of creating a separate template to address this, but I realized that the issue could be entirely solved without needing to update the template used by hundreds of photos: instead, just change the description of the existing template to more accurately describe the images which use it. | |||
This is what the <nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki> template currently looks like: | |||
<pre> | |||
{| class="notice-template copyright" | |||
| [[File:Copyright.svg|48px|Copyrighted promotional photo]] | |||
| This work is a '''[[wikipedia:Copyright|copyrighted]]''' publicity photograph of a person, product, or event that is '''known to have come from a press kit''' or similar source, for the purpose of reuse by the media. It is believed that the use of this photograph to illustrate the '''person''', '''product''', or '''event in question''', in the absence of a free alternative, qualifies as [[wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] under [[wikipedia:Copyright law of the United States|United States copyright law]]. | |||
|}<includeonly>[[Category:Promotional photos]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Category:File copyright tags]]</noinclude> | |||
</pre> | |||
{| class="notice-template copyright" | |||
| [[File:Copyright.svg|48px|Copyrighted promotional photo]] | |||
| This work is a '''[[wikipedia:Copyright|copyrighted]]''' publicity photograph of a person, product, or event that is '''known to have come from a press kit''' or similar source, for the purpose of reuse by the media. It is believed that the use of this photograph to illustrate the '''person''', '''product''', or '''event in question''', in the absence of a free alternative, qualifies as [[wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] under [[wikipedia:Copyright law of the United States|United States copyright law]]. | |||
|} | |||
If this proposal passes, this is what the template would be changed to: | |||
<pre> | |||
{| class="notice-template copyright" | |||
| [[File:Copyright.svg|48px|Copyrighted promotional photo]] | |||
| This work is a '''[[wikipedia:Copyright|copyrighted]]''' photograph of a person, product, or event that either '''originates from a press kit''' or similar source for the purpose of reuse by the media, or otherwise '''illustrates a copyrighted work'''. It is believed that the use of this photograph to illustrate the '''person''', '''product''', or '''event in question''', in the absence of a free alternative, qualifies as [[wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] under [[wikipedia:Copyright law of the United States|United States copyright law]]. | |||
|}<includeonly>[[Category:Promotional photos]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Category:File copyright tags]]</noinclude> | |||
</pre> | |||
{| class="notice-template copyright" | |||
| [[File:Copyright.svg|48px|Copyrighted promotional photo]] | |||
| This work is a '''[[wikipedia:Copyright|copyrighted]]''' photograph of a person, product, or event that either '''originates from a press kit''' or similar source for the purpose of reuse by the media, or otherwise '''illustrates a copyrighted work'''. It is believed that the use of this photograph to illustrate the '''person''', '''product''', or '''event in question''', in the absence of a free alternative, qualifies as [[wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] under [[wikipedia:Copyright law of the United States|United States copyright law]]. | |||
|} | |||
This description would be substantially broad enough so that the template could continue being used for photos of copyrighted merchandise, as well as photos illustrating miscellaneous copyrighted works that cannot be categorized by other templates, such as [[:File:Mario Demo Statue.jpg|this statue of Mario]] (which is not a product, as it was never for sale), all while describing the content of the images truthfully. Please feel free to comment if you have a better idea for a new description for the template. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|ThePowerPlayer}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': February 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|Mario}} I like this idea. | |||
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|LadySophie17}} I've wanted something like this for years. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} This is more accurate, per proposal. | |||
#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} This looks a lot more clear than the existing template. Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} Per proposal. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Don't forget the parameters of you starting the proposal and putting a deadline for it. {{User:Mario/sig}} 19:38, January 28, 2024 (EST) | |||
Anyway I use promotional photo for some merchandise images because the recent images are official stock photos meant to be put in online storefronts or in catalogues and whatnot, e.g. "promoted". I wasn't aware there was supposed to be a stricter definition applied to it. {{User:Mario/sig}} 19:40, January 28, 2024 (EST) | |||
:Those types of official stock photos do fall under the current description from the template, and in my opinion, they should be used whenever possible; however, take a look at [[:Category:Merchandise images]]. There's a distinction between promotional photos displayed on online storefronts that have the license to sell the product displayed (such as [[:File:Mario - SMAS Plush.jpg|this photo of a Mario plush]]), versus a photo of no official capacity taken in someone's house (such as [[:File:Banpresto SM64 Wing Mario.png|this photo]]). Sometimes the latter is necessary to use because the former doesn't exist, which is why the aim of the proposal is to broaden the template so it can cover both official and unofficial merchandise photos. {{User:ThePowerPlayer/sig}} 21:41, January 28, 2024 (EST) | |||
Is there a possibility to rename the template from <code><nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki></code> to simply <code><nowiki>{{photo}}</nowiki></code>, if this proposal passes? I'm all for broadening the scope of this licensing template, but if it's going to be about photos in general of a work or product, and not specifically about ''promotional'' photos, when what's the point of keeping the ''promo'' in the template title? It would only be misleading. {{User:Arend/sig}} 08:59, January 31, 2024 (EST) | |||
:That did cross my mind, but I wasn't sure whether it was right to advocate for it. Given the unanimous support for this proposal, though, it should be straightforward for you to make a proposal to rename the template itself. {{User:ThePowerPlayer/sig}} 20:59, January 31, 2024 (EST) | |||
::Wouldn't renaming the template affect every page the template is used in (which is specifically something the proposal tried to avoid)? If not, then I would imagine it's a no-brainer to just rename the template once the proposal passes, it's a natural extension of it. {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 16:51, February 1, 2024 (EST) | |||
:::The proposal was trying to avoid the need to manually go through every file with the template and decide whether to change it or not. Renaming the template avoids that issue since it would be doable with a bot, so I don't think there should be any problems there. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:29, February 2, 2024 (EST) | |||
===Decide how to format the <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> template and update citation guidelines accordingly=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|7-0|Update citation guidelines}} | |||
Now that [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/65#Create two specific citation templates|this proposal]] has instated the creation of a single <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> template for citations, it's time to decide how this template should be formatted. | |||
In my opinion, for this citation template to be the most effective and convenient for users, it should match existing policy on the [[MarioWiki:Citations]] page as closely as possible. This is for two reasons: | |||
*The first reason is to avoid [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/55#Create_a_template_for_citations|misguided claims]] of the template including excessive amounts of detail, leading to a feeling that an overly complicated format is being forced onto users. | |||
*The second reason is so that currently existing citations can remain as they are, without the templates needing to be retroactively applied to them. | |||
Remember, the goal of this template in the first place is to make it more convenient for users to follow citation guidelines. That being said, to do so requires that such guidelines are outlined clearly, and the current state of the MarioWiki:Citations page is highly ambiguous in some places. For example, one significant issue I have with the page is that the first citation of a physical book (which is supposedly from the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' manual) is completely different from the later citation of a ''Super Mario RPG'' guidebook: | |||
<blockquote>"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisici elit, sed eiusmod tempor incidunt ..." ~ ''Super Mario Sunshine'' manual, page 9.</blockquote> | |||
<blockquote>Miller, K. 1996. ''Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars Nintendo Player's Guide'', pg 13.</blockquote> | |||
I see this template as an opportunity to clarify these inconsistenties once and for all, so if this proposal passes, I'm imposing the condition that not only should the MarioWiki:Citations page be updated to include an explanation on how to use the <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> template, but all of the citation examples on that page should be updated to fit the format described below, for consistency's sake. | |||
Here's ''exactly'' what I think the templates should look like in MediaWiki code, as well as descriptions of each of the parameters: | |||
<pre> | |||
{{cite | |||
| author = | |||
| date = | |||
| title = | |||
| publisher = | |||
| isbn = | |||
| page = | |||
| accessdate = | |||
| quote = | |||
| archive = | |||
| archivedate = | |||
}} | |||
</pre> | |||
'''<u>Parameters for all citations:</u>'''<br>These parameters should always be included whenever possible. | |||
*'''Author:''' The full name in (Lastname, Firstname) format ''or'' the username of whoever wrote the content of the source. Separate fields for the author's first name and last name are too confusing, since users could easily fill out the template as (Firstname, Lastname) by accident, not to mention the exceptions of a username or if the author is a collective (e.g. the author of an article is listed only as "Nintendo"). | |||
*'''Date:''' The date the book or page was published, e.g. "January 1, 2000". | |||
**If the format "YYYY-MM-DD" is entered, it should be automatically converted to the preceding format, but typing plain text should also work. | |||
*'''Title:''' The title of the source. If citing a web page, this field should also be a link to the page itself. | |||
*'''Publisher:''' The publisher of the book, or the website on which the web page was found. | |||
'''<u>Parameters for a specific citation type:</u>''' | |||
*'''ISBN:''' For physical books only, the {{wp|ISBN}} of the book. | |||
*'''Page:''' For physical books only, the page number on which the citation was found. | |||
**Formatted as a number in code, but should be displayed in plain English, i.e. "Page 12.", for simplicity. | |||
*'''Access date:''' For web pages only, the date at which the source was accessed, e.g. "January 1, 2000". This is to preserve the state of the web page at that time, since unlike physical media, web pages can change at any point. | |||
'''<u>Optional parameters:</u>'''<br>These parameters should only be included if relevant to the citation. | |||
*'''Quote:''' A brief excerpt from the book or web page providing more context to the citation. Using quotes should be encouraged because it allows readers to see evidence behind a claim quickly and directly on the wiki itself, rather than needing to seek out the evidence in question in order to prove that it has not been fabricated. | |||
**I chose to use "–" to separate the quote and the rest of the citation, since I have ''never'' seen any quote citation on the wiki use the tilde (~), as is supposedly recommended by guidelines. If there is evidence to support using a different symbol, please let me know in the comments. | |||
**Also, I was originally under the impression that the excerpted text in the quote should be italicized, but that is seemingly not the case in e.g. [https://guides.library.unr.edu/mlacitation/intextcitation the MLA style guide], so currently, the quoted text remains un-italicized. Again, please comment if you disagree. | |||
*'''Archive:''' A link to a web archive of an online source. Must also include the "archive date" field if used. | |||
**The beginning of the URL should be automatically analyzed to determine which web archive was used (Wayback Machine or archive.today), and accordingly append the archived link with either "via Wayback Machine" or "via archive.today", respectively. | |||
*'''Archive date:''' The date at which the URL was archived. | |||
**If given in the same format as a Wayback Machine URL (e.g. "20210309100159") or the string of text in the top right corner of an archive.today page (e.g. "13 Aug 2022 13:51:45 UTC"), it should automatically be converted to the correct format, and it should stay that way in wiki code after the page is saved, like the timestamp template ("<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>"). | |||
Here is what the citations on MarioWiki:Citations should look like, with the template code followed by what is displayed on the page (note that an advantage of using a template is that as long as the parameter names are specified, they can be typed in any order): | |||
<pre> | |||
{{cite | |||
|date=August 26, 2002 | |||
|title=''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'' North American instruction booklet | |||
|publisher=Nintendo | |||
|page=7 | |||
|quote=It's up to Mario to clean up the mess on Isle Delfino, solve puzzles, and defeat enemies in order to gather the scattered Shine Sprites.}} | |||
</pre> | |||
<blockquote>"It's up to Mario to clean up the mess on Isle Delfino, solve puzzles, and defeat enemies in order to gather the scattered Shine Sprites." – (August 26, 2002). ''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'' North American instruction booklet. ''Nintendo''. Page 7.</blockquote> | |||
(Note: I updated this specific citation to an actual, verifiable quote from the text, because the irony of using a fabricated quote for citation guidelines doesn't sit right with me.) | |||
<pre> | |||
{{cite | |||
|author=Campbell, Evan | |||
|date=July 17, 2014 | |||
|title=[http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/17/the-cat-mario-show-announced The Cat Mario Show Announced] | |||
|publisher=IGN | |||
|accessdate=July 22, 2014}} | |||
</pre> | |||
<blockquote>Campbell, Evan (July 17, 2014). [http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/17/the-cat-mario-show-announced The Cat Mario Show Announced]. ''IGN''. Retrieved July 22, 2014.</blockquote> | |||
<pre> | |||
{{cite | |||
|author=Nintendo | |||
|date=January 14, 2015 | |||
|title=[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L69Z39bgdU4 Wii U - Mario Party 10 Trailer] | |||
|publisher=YouTube | |||
|accessdate=April 26, 2015}} | |||
</pre> | |||
<blockquote>Nintendo (January 14, 2015). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L69Z39bgdU4 Wii U - Mario Party 10 Trailer]. ''YouTube''. Retrieved April 26, 2015.</blockquote> | |||
<pre> | |||
{{cite | |||
|title=[http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html Smash Bros. DOJO!!] | |||
|publisher=Nintendo | |||
|accessdate=June 14, 2010}} | |||
</pre> | |||
<blockquote>[http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html Smash Bros. DOJO!!]. ''Nintendo''. Retrieved June 14, 2010.</blockquote> | |||
<pre> | |||
{{cite | |||
|author=Nintendo | |||
|date=1985 | |||
|title=[https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf ''Super Mario Bros.'' Instruction Booklet | |||
|accessdate=July 28, 2021 | |||
|archive=https://web.archive.org/web/20210309100159/http://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf | |||
|archivedate=20210309100159}} | |||
</pre> | |||
<blockquote>Nintendo (1985). [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf ''Super Mario Bros.'' Instruction Booklet]. Retrieved July 8, 2021. ([https://web.archive.org/web/20210309100159/http://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf Archived] March 9, 2021, 10:01:59 UTC via Wayback Machine.)</blockquote> | |||
<pre> | |||
{{cite | |||
|author=Miller, Kent | |||
|date=1996 | |||
|title=''Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars Nintendo Player's Guide'' | |||
|page=13}} | |||
</pre> | |||
<blockquote>Miller, Kent (1996). ''Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars Nintendo Player's Guide''. Page 13.</blockquote> | |||
Here is what a citation that uses the ISBN parameter would look like, with the ISBN placed in between the publisher and the page number, in order to distinguish the book uniquely before stating the page number within that book: | |||
<pre> | |||
{{cite | |||
|author=Wessel, Craig | |||
|title=''Warioland 4'' | |||
|publisher=Scholastic | |||
|isbn=0-439-36711-5 | |||
|page=63 | |||
|quote=I hate sand, but what I hate even more was that there was no treasure in sight!}} | |||
</pre> | |||
<blockquote>"I hate sand, but what I hate even more was that there was no treasure in sight!" – Wessel, Craig. ''Warioland 4''. ''Scholastic''. ISBN 0-439-36711-5. Page 63.</blockquote> | |||
I can think of one exception where standardized formatting beyond this may or may not be optimal, that being citing {{wp|Twitter|Twitter / X}} posts, but that warrants its own proposal; I have such a proposal in the works, but I'll only release it after a consensus is reached here. | |||
When actually using this template in an article, it should be included ''within'' the <nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki> tags, to ensure that naming the references works as always per the "How to add references" section of the citation guidelines. | |||
Finally, I want to conclude by emphasizing that '''this is not a required template'''; it's simply a method of making citations easier and more standardized. If this proposal passes, a disclaimer should be added to MarioWiki:Citations stating that using the <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> template is encouraged, but not required, and if a citation is better expressed without the template, then just manually typing something within the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags is completely okay. | |||
Please feel free to comment on this proposal if you have any recommendations of your own. | |||
'''EDIT:''' Per Super Mario RPG's recommendation, added the ISBN parameter. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|ThePowerPlayer}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': February 5, 2024, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Yes, thank you for making this follow-up proposal. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Mario}} I like this idea! | |||
#{{User|GuntherBB}} Per ThePowerPlayer. | |||
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} per all | |||
#{{User|LadySophie17}} That looks very complicated but sure, I could work with that. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
I know it may seem unnecessary, but can an [[wikipedia:Help:ISBN|ISBN]] be added as an (obviously optional) parameter to the template? [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 07:10, January 29, 2024 (EST) | |||
:As an optional parameter, it sounds perfectly applicable - I've added it to the proposal. {{User:ThePowerPlayer/sig}} 08:34, January 29, 2024 (EST) | |||
Just realized that perhaps this template also state the language of the source if, let's say, we're citing Japanese websites. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:25, February 5, 2024 (EST) |
Revision as of 08:27, February 7, 2024
Rewrite cited quotes into a new styleTemplate:ProposalOutcome
It's been two years since the <ref>[[Nintendo Entertainment Analysis and Development|Nintendo EAD Tokyo]] (November 1, 2007). ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' ([[Wii]]). [[Nintendo]]. Level/area: [[Bubble Blastoff]]. "'''[[Captain Toad]]''': 'That Undergrunt Gunner is keeping us from exploring the area!'"</ref> = Nintendo EAD Tokyo (November 1, 2007). Super Mario Galaxy (Wii). Nintendo. Level/area: Bubble Blastoff. "Captain Toad: 'That Undergrunt Gunner is keeping us from exploring the area!'" <ref>Shelly, Bruce; Shelly, Reed (September 8, 1990). "[[Sneaky Lying Cheating Giant Ninja Koopas]]". ''[[The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3]]''. Episode 1. "'''Royal Parrot''': 'You can't evict me! Braw! I'm the Royal Parrot!'"</ref> = Shelly, Bruce; Shelly, Reed (September 8, 1990). "Sneaky Lying Cheating Giant Ninja Koopas". The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3. Episode 1. "Royal Parrot: 'You can't evict me! Braw! I'm the Royal Parrot!'" <ref>Coffin, Pierre; Balda, Kyle Balda (director) (June 14, 2017). ''{{wp|Despicable Me 3}}'' (Motion picture). "'''Bratt''': 'It's on like Donkey Kong!'"</ref> = Coffin, Pierre; Balda, Kyle Balda (director) (June 14, 2017). Despicable Me 3 (Motion picture). "Bratt: 'It's on like Donkey Kong!'" Proposer: GuntherBB (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsWill this proposal allow for the aforementioned citation templates to be created? I'm not completely clear on what this proposal is aiming to accomplish, but I would support citation templates, to help create a consistency around the use of the references tags. Super Mario RPG (talk) 00:39, January 20, 2024 (EST)
The idea of making citations of all kinds more streamlined and standardized has actually been on my mind for a while now, but I haven't made a proposal yet because I don't know exactly how to go about it. Like I said in my reasoning for opposing this proposal, some citation formats are just too complicated for most users to bother following them, which is why finding the right format for a citation can make all the difference towards that format being agreed upon collectively as an improvement; that's why this proposal failed and this one unanimously succeeded. ThePowerPlayer 20:52, January 21, 2024 (EST) So, why this proposal? Citations should follow a certain standard, which I believe is illustrated in MarioWiki:Citations ("What to put as references") but perhaps not clearly, due to information on how citations should be formatted just mushed in a paragraph with no citation templates to work off, only examples. That being said, the proposal aims to change the citation style for quotes, referencing a talk page proposal for a deleted template, see Template talk:Ref quote; why was this deleted? Some people interpreted this as a proposal to create a general citation template, which I don't believe so since this proposal seems to strictly concern with quotations from fictional characters. If so, the comment by Ahemtoday is a reason to oppose: the stuff we'll be citing will have its own article, so things like listing the publisher and developer of a video game just to cite it doesn't feel like it makes sense to me." That being said, I think it's appropriate to cite some direct gameplay videos for evidence of claims in the articles. I've done this for Metal Mario's page, particularly the part where Wario yells when falling underwater; it's for my own sake in properly recalling something trivial (but amusing) and possible to forget later on. But this proposal aims to cite video games themselves for quotes, which I don't even think it's the best way to do it versus a time stamped video. If not, questions remain. What's the issue with the old system? Are we currently not even citing quotes? How are we doing citations for quotes currently? What's even the scope of this proposal, is it fictional characters or quotations from publications? What examples are there to show issues of the current citation method that led to the creation of this proposal? What do the changes even look like; what's "before" and "after"? Why should we match Wikipedia's system? It's not clear from this proposal. I've re-read the thing a few times carefully. I'm still left with confusion. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:57, January 22, 2024 (EST) Create two specific citation templatesTemplate:ProposalOutcome This proposal similarly deals with citation templates, but proposes the creation of a few not covered within the scope of a different currently active proposal. I've seen inconsistently formatted citations all over the wiki (e.g. some add a comma, followed by "pg. 7" when it should be a period, followed by "Page 7.") and templates would be perfect for making sure the citations are formatted consistently all over the wiki. I'm proposing the two following citation templates for the following purposes:
I don't expect them to be strictly enforced, but should this proposal pass, MarioWiki:Citations and probably the Manual of Style should be updated accordingly. Edit: Added an option for a single citation template (i.e. {{cite}}) that would cover for web links and publications alike, though I personally still prefer the two separately. Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk) Create both
Create one citation template for all types of citations
Oppose
CommentsOne template for all citations would do just fine, no need for three. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 05:04, January 21, 2024 (EST)
I would like to know what each template would look like before voting on it. I'm confused by what the document one means, for example. — Lady Sophie (T|C) 07:10, January 21, 2024 (EST)
As Sophie asked, what will these templates look like? Are we going to use content from Wikipedia? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:03, January 22, 2024 (EST)
The proposal is probably going to pass but I'm going to abstain from opposing because at least the community seems to agree on creation of the thing. The design of the thing is definitely another issue for another day, and it's something I think we can work with after the proposal. That being said, if you want more confidence for a support of your proposal, illustrate praxis. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:16, January 28, 2024 (EST)
Add minecraft.wiki as an interwiki linkTemplate:ProposalOutcome
This isn't so much a "feature" rather than a simple quality-of-life addition to the wiki. This proposal proposes to add an interwiki link to minecraft.wiki (i.e. Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsIf this proposal succeeds, I think we could as well try a proposal for adding the RayWiki (e.g. [[raymanpc:]]) next, due to the Rayman series' relevance in Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope via the Rayman in the Phantom Show DLC. Casual reminder that we have interwiki for Kovopedia (even though the Magical Vacation series has little to no relevance to the Super Mario franchise yet, even while taking Super Smash Bros into account) purely because it's a NIWA affiliate, so adding a Rayman wiki as an interwiki link would only be fair, and that's double as much so for adding a Minecraft one. rend (talk) (edits) 11:39, January 28, 2024 (EST)
Allow staff warnings to be appealedTemplate:ProposalOutcome See MarioWiki:Appeals Appeals haven't been widely practiced in the wiki lately, but I think it's better to act sooner and also gauge a consensus on this. Rule 1 states: "Reminders and/or Warnings given by an administrator or patroller cannot be appealed." The rationale behind the rule is likely to focus on admin backrooms to discuss matters pertaining to decisions by admins and minimize drama. However, this runs squarely against the spirit of the wiki. We establish very clearly in MarioWiki:Administrators:
This sort of rule was likely intended to prevent users from causing a scene (see a discussion questioning the validity of it) but it squarely contradicts the above statement which makes our commitment to valuing all users questionable, if not insincere. This kind of rule instead potentially stifles good faith discussion made by users to staff and might help foster distrust in staff, something that won't work well for a collaborative wiki. Additionally, MarioWiki:Appeals already requires users to keep discussions civil, so possible bad faith appeals are already covered, and lengthy exchanges are already discouraged. People should be allowed to openly critique our performance in good faith of course (bad faith ones will still be dealt with in our MarioWiki:Courtesy; that being said, I also have my eyes set on rewriting the corresponding policies concerning "undermining admin authority" to encourage constructive criticism). If we're supposed to treat admins as equal to everyone else, at least we should invite good faith criticisms for decisions that staff has made, not make some ultimately arbitrary delineation between who gives out a warning and then also proclaim staff isn't that special. Affected pages (if there are pages I missed, please mention; they'll likely be dealt accordingly, however, since this is a simple proposed change):
Staff will still have the ability to overturn any warning at any notice, and bad appeals toward staff (like any bad appeal in general especially to experienced long-term users who aren't staff) will probably still be archived swiftly and hopefully without too much drama. If this kind of clarification is needed, then please do state it and I'll make the changes. Proposer: Mario (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsDoc von Schmeltwick: The ability to give these notices to staff will probably require further discussion (this one is a bit more contentious to me). I think situations involving a staff member should be dealt with via civil criticism rather than warning/reminder templates (it's not like blocking can be really enforced on members who have blocking tools, so these warning templates toward staff have little practical use anyway; removing staff tools would require intervention by other staff ultimately). We did say the most appropriate venues for criticizing staff, usually through forum DMs or Discord DMs. You can bring it up in MarioWiki talk:Warning policy or MarioWiki talk:Courtesy. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 14:20, January 27, 2024 (EST) Koopa con Carne, Drago: Yeah I'm not expecting appeals on these decisions to be successful, since staff members already have good judgement most of the time, but I think it helps to at least signal to users that we give them a chance for a fair hearing first. There is always a chance they have a point or so which would be valuable feedback. We don't want to bar opportunity like that. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:04, January 27, 2024 (EST) You know, it's kinda funny: the policies keep specifying that you cannot appeal a reminder or warning given by patrollers or administrators, but for the longest time, I could've sworn that reminders and warnings could've only been given by patrollers or administrators anyway, because they have been given the authority to block you and thus should also know when someone is breaking the rules. I, at least, hadn't really noticed a time that a normal registered user has given a warning to another normal registered user before, even though the current warning policy states they can do so (a detail, I should stress, I discovered just today). rend (talk) (edits) 11:55, January 28, 2024 (EST)
Hewer: There actually has been like several attempts from the past couple of years, but have been removed due to rule 1.[1] Sure, they probably should've read the warning templates first before proceeding but it doesn't mean the rule itself is valid IMO. If you were the one issuing the exact same kind of warning and reminder, these cases would've been heard and decided; kind of easily shows the useless distinction. Besides, I add: it would certainly help to get second opinion of another staff member too, like another perspective, so it would still be beneficial for staff if we removed Rule 1. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:52, January 28, 2024 (EST) Create interwiki link for RayWikiTemplate:ProposalOutcome This is similar to, and inspired by the Minecraft.wiki interwiki link proposal above, but with the RayWiki instead. The Rayman series has gotten relevance in the Super Mario franchise thanks to the Rayman in the Phantom Show DLC campaign for Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope. The DLC campaign harbors a multitude of Rayman cameos and references, and currently, we can only link to articles of the most relevant wiki for Rayman using external weblinks, which... doesn't look all too great on an article, IMO. Since this wiki has interwiki link support to wikis that are part of NIWA, but which series otherwise have little to no relevance to Super Mario in general (e.g. Kovopedia, a Magical Vacation wiki), I think it would be fair to have interwiki link support to wikis about franchises that are relevant to Super Mario in some way. As for the interwiki link code, it could be something like Proposer: Arend (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsMake a YouTube Disambiguation(!!!) pageBefore you hit "Oppose (edit)" and scream "NOT AGAIN", hear us out here. YouTube, as a whole, almost certainly does not deserve an article to itself. Unless we were to make a sweeping move to create pages for every Social Media page associated with the Mario brand, or every video distribution platform that's released a Mario video on it, it would be very silly to do that... But that's not to say YouTube holds zero relevance to the Mario brand, and that having a page of some sort for it is a doomed concept. No, what we're thinking is more along the lines of a disambiguation page, a-la our proposal for Starfy. There are some things that we could be linking to via a catch-all YouTube article, and while we don't want to claim this list is comprehensive--Play Nintendo on its own is a massive rabbit hole--we do want to hopefully illustrate roughly what we could do with that, as well as acknowledge a few counter-arguments. We make no claims that this is comprehensive, we know for a fact we left a few out, be it out of brevity, us not knowing about them, or good ol' fashioned laziness. But this is merely to illustrate just some of the YouTube videos with articles:
...Look, you get the idea. There's a lot of YouTube videos related to Mario that we have articles for, and even more that we, as of proposal, don't. This would be both a good resource for quickly finding these without having to plunder the rat's nest of Play Nintendo articles, as well as hopefully bring more attention to the videos that currently do not have articles. This list isn't even comprehensive, mind you, and the scope itself could honestly be increased to even include various promotional pieces that were hosted on YouTube for games like Wario Land: Shake It! or Super Mario Galaxy 2; though this is definitely something for a future proposal, so let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet and say we'll leave it exclusively to videos made for YouTube, by Nintendo, about Mario. We're also hoping this could potentially instigate better preservation for these videos; already, stuff like Virus Vid is vanishing from YouTube, only existing via Twitter and unofficial re-uploads since Nintendo privated the videos after Dr. Mario World went belly-up. And on the one hand, we get it--Play Nintendo isn't exactly the zenith of Nintendo's marketing. But it also makes us a little upset knowing we might only have a limited time to cover these things, and what's more is that there's possibly even stuff we've already missed out on that's lost to time. Addendum: As a few people have pointed out, a category may also suffice--so we've added an option for that as well. We think this'd also suffice, personally. Proposer: Camwoodstock (talk) Support (make a YouTube disambiguation page)
Support (make a YouTube category)
OpposeCommentsHow would this be preferred over, say, creating a category for YouTube? What will this accomplish that Category:Videos cannot? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:05, January 28, 2024 (EST)
I understand why a list of videos like this might be useful to have, but I don't get why it's being called a "disambiguation" here. This wouldn't be a list of things that the term YouTube could refer to, it would be a list of YouTube videos. Why not make it an article called "List of official YouTube videos" or something along those lines? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:38, January 28, 2024 (EST)
I see the new option. How will Category:Videos be affected? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:18, January 29, 2024 (EST)
Broaden the scope of the {{promo-photo}} templateTemplate:ProposalOutcome Currently, the licensing template used for photographs uploaded to the wiki is Template:Promo-photo, henceforth referred to as {{promo-photo}}. All photographs uploaded to the wiki are listed under the template's corresponding category, Category:Promotional photos. This template is supposedly only meant to be used for publicity photos "known to have come from a press kit"; however, a lot of the photos in this category, most commonly images of merchandise, were taken by ordinary people who have no relation to a formal organization for news or media distribution; to put it simply, many images with this template don't come from a press kit. I'm convinced that {{promo-photo}} is simply the equivalent of Wikipedia's Template:Non-free promotional, which went largely unchanged when it was copied to the Super Mario Wiki. However, the wikis are significantly different in their media policies: Wikipedia is far more strict on usage of copyrighted media than this wiki, which is centered around a copyrighted franchise. More importantly, it just doesn't feel right that {{promo-photo}}'s description doesn't match the majority of images which use it. I was originally thinking of creating a separate template to address this, but I realized that the issue could be entirely solved without needing to update the template used by hundreds of photos: instead, just change the description of the existing template to more accurately describe the images which use it. This is what the {{promo-photo}} template currently looks like: {| class="notice-template copyright" | [[File:Copyright.svg|48px|Copyrighted promotional photo]] | This work is a '''[[wikipedia:Copyright|copyrighted]]''' publicity photograph of a person, product, or event that is '''known to have come from a press kit''' or similar source, for the purpose of reuse by the media. It is believed that the use of this photograph to illustrate the '''person''', '''product''', or '''event in question''', in the absence of a free alternative, qualifies as [[wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] under [[wikipedia:Copyright law of the United States|United States copyright law]]. |}<includeonly>[[Category:Promotional photos]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Category:File copyright tags]]</noinclude>
If this proposal passes, this is what the template would be changed to: {| class="notice-template copyright" | [[File:Copyright.svg|48px|Copyrighted promotional photo]] | This work is a '''[[wikipedia:Copyright|copyrighted]]''' photograph of a person, product, or event that either '''originates from a press kit''' or similar source for the purpose of reuse by the media, or otherwise '''illustrates a copyrighted work'''. It is believed that the use of this photograph to illustrate the '''person''', '''product''', or '''event in question''', in the absence of a free alternative, qualifies as [[wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] under [[wikipedia:Copyright law of the United States|United States copyright law]]. |}<includeonly>[[Category:Promotional photos]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Category:File copyright tags]]</noinclude>
This description would be substantially broad enough so that the template could continue being used for photos of copyrighted merchandise, as well as photos illustrating miscellaneous copyrighted works that cannot be categorized by other templates, such as this statue of Mario (which is not a product, as it was never for sale), all while describing the content of the images truthfully. Please feel free to comment if you have a better idea for a new description for the template. Proposer: ThePowerPlayer (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsDon't forget the parameters of you starting the proposal and putting a deadline for it. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:38, January 28, 2024 (EST) Anyway I use promotional photo for some merchandise images because the recent images are official stock photos meant to be put in online storefronts or in catalogues and whatnot, e.g. "promoted". I wasn't aware there was supposed to be a stricter definition applied to it. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:40, January 28, 2024 (EST)
Is there a possibility to rename the template from
Decide how to format the {{cite}} template and update citation guidelines accordinglyTemplate:ProposalOutcome Now that this proposal has instated the creation of a single {{cite}} template for citations, it's time to decide how this template should be formatted. In my opinion, for this citation template to be the most effective and convenient for users, it should match existing policy on the MarioWiki:Citations page as closely as possible. This is for two reasons:
Remember, the goal of this template in the first place is to make it more convenient for users to follow citation guidelines. That being said, to do so requires that such guidelines are outlined clearly, and the current state of the MarioWiki:Citations page is highly ambiguous in some places. For example, one significant issue I have with the page is that the first citation of a physical book (which is supposedly from the Super Mario Sunshine manual) is completely different from the later citation of a Super Mario RPG guidebook:
I see this template as an opportunity to clarify these inconsistenties once and for all, so if this proposal passes, I'm imposing the condition that not only should the MarioWiki:Citations page be updated to include an explanation on how to use the {{cite}} template, but all of the citation examples on that page should be updated to fit the format described below, for consistency's sake. Here's exactly what I think the templates should look like in MediaWiki code, as well as descriptions of each of the parameters: {{cite | author = | date = | title = | publisher = | isbn = | page = | accessdate = | quote = | archive = | archivedate = }} Parameters for all citations:
Parameters for a specific citation type:
Optional parameters:
Here is what the citations on MarioWiki:Citations should look like, with the template code followed by what is displayed on the page (note that an advantage of using a template is that as long as the parameter names are specified, they can be typed in any order): {{cite |date=August 26, 2002 |title=''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'' North American instruction booklet |publisher=Nintendo |page=7 |quote=It's up to Mario to clean up the mess on Isle Delfino, solve puzzles, and defeat enemies in order to gather the scattered Shine Sprites.}}
(Note: I updated this specific citation to an actual, verifiable quote from the text, because the irony of using a fabricated quote for citation guidelines doesn't sit right with me.) {{cite |author=Campbell, Evan |date=July 17, 2014 |title=[http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/17/the-cat-mario-show-announced The Cat Mario Show Announced] |publisher=IGN |accessdate=July 22, 2014}}
{{cite |author=Nintendo |date=January 14, 2015 |title=[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L69Z39bgdU4 Wii U - Mario Party 10 Trailer] |publisher=YouTube |accessdate=April 26, 2015}}
{{cite |title=[http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html Smash Bros. DOJO!!] |publisher=Nintendo |accessdate=June 14, 2010}}
{{cite |author=Nintendo |date=1985 |title=[https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf ''Super Mario Bros.'' Instruction Booklet |accessdate=July 28, 2021 |archive=https://web.archive.org/web/20210309100159/http://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf |archivedate=20210309100159}}
{{cite |author=Miller, Kent |date=1996 |title=''Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars Nintendo Player's Guide'' |page=13}}
Here is what a citation that uses the ISBN parameter would look like, with the ISBN placed in between the publisher and the page number, in order to distinguish the book uniquely before stating the page number within that book: {{cite |author=Wessel, Craig |title=''Warioland 4'' |publisher=Scholastic |isbn=0-439-36711-5 |page=63 |quote=I hate sand, but what I hate even more was that there was no treasure in sight!}}
I can think of one exception where standardized formatting beyond this may or may not be optimal, that being citing Twitter / X posts, but that warrants its own proposal; I have such a proposal in the works, but I'll only release it after a consensus is reached here. When actually using this template in an article, it should be included within the <ref></ref> tags, to ensure that naming the references works as always per the "How to add references" section of the citation guidelines. Finally, I want to conclude by emphasizing that this is not a required template; it's simply a method of making citations easier and more standardized. If this proposal passes, a disclaimer should be added to MarioWiki:Citations stating that using the {{cite}} template is encouraged, but not required, and if a citation is better expressed without the template, then just manually typing something within the <ref> tags is completely okay. Please feel free to comment on this proposal if you have any recommendations of your own. EDIT: Per Super Mario RPG's recommendation, added the ISBN parameter. Proposer: ThePowerPlayer (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsI know it may seem unnecessary, but can an ISBN be added as an (obviously optional) parameter to the template? Super Mario RPG (talk) 07:10, January 29, 2024 (EST)
Just realized that perhaps this template also state the language of the source if, let's say, we're citing Japanese websites. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:25, February 5, 2024 (EST) |