Talk:Big Freezie

Keep this page split (and decide its name)

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: October 1, 2026, 16:20 (UTC)

First, before anything else, I very kindly ask you to read the entire proposal before voting. And yeah, I made a 19,912 long proposal for a 3,507 length page, and there is nothing wrong about it.

I created this page the other day, something I’d wanted to do for quite a while, ever since I came across this comment. I created the page, made the necessary changes, and thought I had explained myself clearly enough. However, it seems that wasn't the case for everyone, so here is the proposal.

First, I want to explain my thought on why I divided the page through various points that complement each other:

1. Not only an individual of the game: Yeah, so the Big Freezie is not the only Freezie in the game, as regular Freezies appear in his fight. This is the first thing that led me to the split, the fact that this is not a regular Freezie from the game, but rather a specific individual of the species.

2. Big enemy as boss: We have seen this many, many times before, approximately since Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. Big versions of an enemy act as a boss, and we have their pages split from their regular counterparts. So this shouldn't be an exception. Also, the Music Key inside its body could be considered a minor detail, but it gives the Big Freezie a different appearance from standard Freezies.

3. Role difference between subjects: The Big Freezie is a boss, as said above, that like other bosses from the game, has special steps and attacks for the player. Meanwhile, the regular Freezies (that currently are not mentioned on the page for some reason) in the game appear as background characters around him, as he is the apparent boss of them. I don't think the normal Freezies' role should be categorized as small or insignificant; most creatures from the game only appear as background elements dancing to the song, so they are just vibing like the others. Also, this boss is similar to another one from the same game that I'll bring up later.

4. Name: The Big Freezie name comes from his battle. He is also referred to as huge Freezie, or just Freezie, but this shouldn't be a problem at all. Big Freezie is an appropriate name that is easy to understand and use, as would be Huge Freezie. There are various articles that tend to use uncapitalized descriptors as names, and they are most of the time okay. Big variants tend to use these very often, as they can be seen as Huge Icicle, big fruit, or Giant spear man, and it is okay. Big Freezie is understandable, easy to recognize, and is consistent with other bosses from the same game. (Also, someone said the smaller Freezies are unnamed, so they could have been called mini-freezies. And like yeah, but they aren't named, and that is speculation, so I don't get the point. Mr. Blizzard also could have been called something else, but they went unnamed, so we refer to them as Mr. Blizzard because that's actually their name).

Now those are the reasons why I split the page. Now I'll bring my reasons to keep the page:

Yeah, I know Big Freezie is also referred to as just Freezie in the Mush Mode and in Japanese, but should that be that important? I mean, this guy got an important distinction from his regular counterparts, and we have similar pages about character-bosses. I'll bring some examples and comparisons:

Case 1. Big Mr. I: Ah yes, the giant eyeball. The only difference between this guy and Mr. I is that this one is twice as big and drops a Power Star upon defeat, no harder to defeat, no different projectiles. The guide guide that first refers to him as Big Mr. I does it in the header of the page and once in the description; for the rest of the description, the page uses Mr. I to refer to him, and the same guide points out how it acts like other Mr. Is. Heck, the same guide even says "Mr. I... big or small." This is the only guide to give this dude a proper name, as the encyclopedia groups him with normals and refers to him as large Mr. I in the mission description. Nor does it appear in Mario Portal, nor does it receive non-descriptive names in other languages (normally described as a large eyeball or just large Big Mr. I). But why do we have him split, then? Because he has a different role and use than a standard Mr. I, is cataloged as a boss within the game, and provides unique information different from Mr. I. Overall, the page works fine as it is, and hey, the name Big Mr. I was used in-game later. Does this situation remind you of someone?

Case 2: Giant Sockop: Much like Big Mr. I, this guy is nameless in the game, but there is a key difference. In this case, the fight itself (including the reward and the mechanics) is identical to that of standard Sockops. Aside from its size, the main factor that distinguishes this guy from regular Sockops is its role. This giant Sockop acts as the leader of the Sockops, who bring it food. In the game it attempts to swallow Mario, but after Luigi punches it from the inside, it spits Mario out and shrinks down, trapping Luigi in the process. Luigi then uses it as a disguise to blend in with other Sockops and walk across spikes; however, after reuniting with Mario and getting of the giant Sockop, it regains consciousness and initiates a battle alongside three other Sockops. That is its role in the story, small, yes, but significant and consistent with most characters in the Mario & Luigi series. Its "name" is also a generic descriptor, yet it works. Coincidentally, like somenoe, it serves as the boss of the area's enemies. There was also a prior discussion about it in 2013, which eventually led to the creation of a dedicated page three years later, in 2016. Does this situation remind you of someone?

Case 3. Blooper (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door boss): This case is a bit different but follows the same principle. This dude was split by a proposal, a proposal similar to this one, but first I want to do some comparisons. Both the Blooper and the Big Freezie are large versions of the normal enemy, and both appear within the same enemy in their games. Both also share some of their names with normal enemies, and both are bosses with important roles in their respective games. The Blooper may have more appearances aside from the base game, but at the end of the day, both are the same. Both are clearly going for more than just the enemy but larger. Now for the actual proposal, here it is. I share many points with it, which I 'll show and compare: first, "where it is labeled as a specific Big Blooper." The game doesn't treat the Big Freezie like any Freezie; it is the specific Freezie sitting at the top of the mountain : "It's a battle between you and the huge Freezie sitting atop the mountain! Use your hot moves to melt him away!" Not only that, but the game also gives this specific Freezie a character mugshot, as can be seen in the non-playable section of the game. Hesh, not even the Big Blooper got that lucky. "Having its own page would allow for a more detailed discussion on not only its boss fight mechanics (and easier access for those looking for info." Yeah, I pretty much agree with everything said here. The guy who created the first discussion is an example, someone searching for info about the specific huge Freezie that acts as a boss instead of the normal ones. Not only that, but the current info on the Freezie page only mentions the boss and ignores the normal ones, and its current information is smaller than the actual info that he got on his proper page. Yeah, I could merge that info into the Freezie page, but having an entire large section on the Freezie page talking about a specific Freezie that used to have its own page instead of the normal Freezies in the game is kind of why splits exist in the first place. On its own page, he gets his very own detailed info, is easier to find/search, and overall cleans up the Freezie page. Finally, I 'll bring a quote from the proposal: "due to it being a boss and character." You know who else is a boss and a character? Does this situation remind you of someone?

Case 4. Mask Gate (boss) & Mount Pajamaja (boss): These two dudes, although they may seem like entirely different cases to Big Freezie, are actually very similar. Both of them are split from pages with the same name, being Mask Gate and Mount Pajamaja, respectively. And I want to explain why they were split in the first place. Let's start with Mount Pajamaja from Mario & Luigi: Dream Team, which is an actual location in the game. It has a dreamy version called Dreamy Mount Pajamaja, where the characters discover that the mount itself is a living creature; it's the Mount Pajamaja itself. Now, why does this boss get its very own page when every name in other languages is shared with the Mount Pajamaja location? ( Aside from the appearance) is because this thing has a totally different role, mechanics , and story!!! Before explaining further , let's see Mask Gate (boss) and Mask Gate. Mask Gates are like the goals of Super Mario Bros. 2, as the players enter these objects to proceed to the next level or to fight the world boss. In World 7-2, when the players are going to enter the Mask Gate, it starts flying and attacking the player , becoming a boss. Upon stunning the Mask Gate, the player needs to enter quickly inside it before it reanimates and starts attacking again. Clearly, both things have different roles, and that's what got them split in the first place. We split things with different roles/ mechanics because that's what defines a page: the roles. We have enemy roles, boss roles, background element roles, and more. When we have two different roles in the same game, we most of the time split them. There are more examples out there of splits based on roles/mechanics, like Black Shy Guy (Yoshi's Story), Boo (Roy's Showdown!) or Fronk & Fronk (species). Does this situation remind you of someone?

Case 5. Big Blooper: This one is comically the biggest one among all the five cases. You could bring an argument by pointing out that the other bosses are from different games, but this guy is from the same game as Big Freezie. First of all, both are large variants of enemies, and both coexist with their smaller counterparts, with the only difference being that aside from appearing as background characters, Bloopers also appear in mush mode. Second, remember how I mentioned above that Big Freezie was called just Freezie in Japanese? Guess what: both the Blooper and the Big Blooper share their Japanese name, which is just Gessō (Blooper). They are only differentiated by descriptors, just like Big Freezie. Also, Big Blooper as a name in English is only applied in the battle intro (like Big Freezie) and once in the description; the rest of the game refers to him simply as Blooper sometimes with a descriptor (like Big Freezie again). Not only that, but the game already has normal Bloopers around; so the game uses the descriptor mini to differentiate them from the main Blooper. Both bosses also have different roles from their smaller/regular counterparts. Overall, Big Blooper is the same situation as Big Freezie and is almost equal in every aspect. Both are big enemies, both are bosses, both share their names with their normal counterparts, and both coexist with them in the game. But for some reason, Big Blooper can be on the Mega Blooper page, and Big Freezie stays merged instead of getting his own page like Big Blooper. This is clearly inconsistent. I don't think merging Big Blooper with the Blooper page is the correct option, but I do think that, being equal to Big Blooper, Big Freezie should also have its very own page.

Having seen these cases, I want to show two contrasting example to clarify what this page is not:

1. Mario Party: Island Tour Mr. Blizzard: In the Bowser's Tower mode, there are a total of 6 bosses, but now I just want to visit one : Mr. Blizzard's Snow Slalom. You could compare this boss to the Big Freezie; the two are large versions of ice enemies, and yeah, that's true, but there are a lot of differences. First, that Mr. Blizzard is the only one in the entire game, so there are no others to differentiate him from, contrary to the Big Freezie, which coexists with regular Freezies. Second, this Mr. Blizzard isn't called or referred anywhere as Big, huge, or even Large. It is just Mr. Blizzard in every single language, contrary to Big Freezie, which receives a unique description and name in some languages. Third, Mr. Blizzard has no relevance in the story, being just another boss of the tower. Big Freezie appears at the start of World 4 at the top of the mountain, and the entire objective of the world is to reach him and recover the Musical Key that he guards. It can also be worth pointing out that Big Freezie has some kind of personality, as said by Toad himself: "Guess you're the strong silent type." Contrary to this, Mr. Blizzard has nothing going for it; he appears, and the fight starts.

2. Numerous Wiggler characters: Numerous games present character Wigglers as part of their story mode. Although you could compare how we keep these characters merged with Wiggler instead of splitting them with Big Freezie and Freezie, they are very different cases, and I am going to talk about roles again here. Wiggler roles really vary between games; usually, they are enemies, sometimes bosses, but there are various games that present certain Wigglers as characters. So this is not something unique or specific to justify a split. Being a character in some games and enemies in others is a common trait of Wigglers as a whole. Freezies, instead, have a principal role that repeats in most of their appearances regardless of the series (with a few exceptions), being a stationary obstacle/enemy that hinders the player. They have never had, before or after, a similar role to that of Big Freezie. So this is, in fact, a very unique and specific trait/role of an individual rather than the whole species, very different from Wiggler.

Before proceeding to my final thoughts, I want to provide some anti-generification clarification for the future. This page is not about general larger/bigger generic Freezies that appear or could appear in the future. It is about a specific subject with an important role from a specific game. Similar or comparable in size Freezies shouldn't be included here by any means. Just like we handle Big Bullet Bill and Big Scuttlebug now.

Final thoughts

It just makes me think about it; those regular Freezies were not even necessary. But here they are, making a difference between them and Big Freezie. This is not a coincidence; this is a specific game choice made by someone from the game designers. Not a random choice, not a minimal choice, a choice that is consistent with most of the game's choices and use of creatures as background elements.

Overall, the page works well as it currently is, provides unique information that the normal Freezie page will not share (see draft and compare it to other DDRMM sections: Bomber Bill, Mr. Blizzard and Penguin), and overall is just like other Big versions of bosses around the wiki. I would even dare to say that if this page had been made around 2010 or even earlier, it would still hold up today. I think that the most controversial part of the split is that the Big Freezie page has been merged onto the Freezie for ages; in fact, it has been like this since the page's conception!!!. But that's not an excuse to not split. I' ve been part of various splits of pages that were merged or made a long, long time ago, and it shouldn't even count as an argument. Getting used to how a page is presented doesn't mean it's bad to make some changes to it. Bill Board, Jill Board, Gil Board, and Phil Board were merged into a single page in 2008 because their articles were "too short", an example of how the wiki functioned back then when short pages and stubs were considered the same. But now they are split once again, and each one has its own articles with unique information. Big Pokey, when it was created in 2015, comprised two different enemies as the same, thanks to a descriptor. The page remained like that until the previous year, when Pokeynut finally got split, ten years later. Finally (because I don't want to make this section larger than it needs to be), since the creation of the Item Balloon page back in 2007, it contained info about Item Balloons and about Baron von Zeppelins . It was not until 2025, 18 years later, that it got split into its own article. Time doesn't matter when it comes to splits; what could have been a single page for years could become two pages one day, and that's okay. Splits happen all the time; some of them could be presented as unnecessary and just a repeat of information, while others can be contradicted by solid official information. Some can be made to split totally different subjects, and some of them can be made to split similar subjects but with differences. What I know for sure is that a good split is one that is accepted by users and benefits them by making searching, using , or understanding better a page or pages. Seeing the little history of existence of this page, I'll ask you one time: Do you think this split is beneficial?

Proposer: Mr. Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: October 15, 2026, 23:59 (UTC)

Keep split and use Big Freezie as the name (option 1)

1. Mr. Sorbetti (talk) My preferred option. Big Freezie is consistent with how we currently handle Big Blooper's name in the Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix section and is overall pretty easy to follow and understand. More than huge and more than the identifier (boss). This name also follows the pattern of other big enemy bosses, being Big (enemy name), like Big Bungee Piranha, Big Kamukamu, Big Lantern Ghost and many more. Even, I would dare to say that his name could eventually be used officially over just huge Freezie or Freezie. At the end of the day, this name is just the best of the three.

Keep split and use Huge Freezie as the name (option 2)

1. Mr. Sorbetti (talk) My second choice. Huge is not as consistent, easy to follow, or commonly used as Big is, but it serves its purpose either way. We also have precedence of huge being used in names, as can be seen in the aforementioned Huge Icicle, or Huge Fire Bar, Huge Piranha Plant, and more. Overall, it is a decent name, is not consistent with Big Blooper, but it is useful over not having a descriptor with it.

Keep split and use Freezie (boss) as the name (option 3)

1. Mr. Sorbetti (talk) At the very least, just by having the page split from regular Freezies is better than nothing. The identifier works fine as it describes his role, and we also have similar precedents like Scutlet (boss), Porcupuffer (boss), Big Boo (character), or the previously mentioned Mask Gate (boss) and Mount Pajamaja (boss).