MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|Mister Wu}} This really seems to simplify the editing work and to avoid inconsistencies between bestiaries and infoboxes, so I support the idea!
#{{User|Mister Wu}} This really seems to simplify the editing work and to avoid inconsistencies between bestiaries and infoboxes, so I support the idea!
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per all.


====Oppose====  
====Oppose====  

Revision as of 22:42, November 22, 2016

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Tuesday, June 4th, 15:01 GMT
Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
  10. If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail with a margin of at least three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "June 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
  5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Split Mario Kart Tour character variants into list articles, Tails777 (ended May 4, 2022)
Classify the Just Dance series as a guest appearance, Spectrogram (ended April 27, 2023)
Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)
Add tabbers to race/battle course articles, GuntherBB (ended November 18, 2023)
Remove elemental creatures categories from various Super Mario RPG enemies, Swallow (ended January 11, 2024)
Merge Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts, JanMisali (ended April 18, 2024)
Remove profiles and certain other content related to the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia from the wiki, Koopa con Carne (ended April 30, 2024)
Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Consider "humorous" and other related terms as frequently misused in MarioWiki:Good writing, DrippingYellow (ended May 28, 2024)
  • ^Note: Requires action from admins.

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Add product IDs in game infoboxes, Windy (ended March 18, 2023)
Split Special Shot into separate articles by game, Technetium (ended September 30, 2023)
Convert the lists of episode appearances for television series characters into categories, Camwoodstock (ended November 22, 2023)
Split the Jungle Buddies from Animal Friends, DrippingYellow (ended December 22, 2023)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Split Mario's Time Machine (Nintendo Entertainment System), or the Super Nintendo Entertainment version along with both console versions of Mario is Missing!, LinkTheLefty (ended April 11, 2024)
Remove non-Super Mario content from Super Smash Bros. series challenges articles, BMfan08 (ended May 3, 2024)
Split Cheep Blimp (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) and Zeeppelin from the blimp page, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended May 28, 2024)

List of talk page proposals

  • Split into Adult Shine Block and Small Shine Block. (Discuss) Deadline: December 1, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Clarify the Wiki's policy on APNG images in .png files

The replacement of .gif files with .apng files is not yet viable due to the lack of support on the browsers that have the majority of market share. There is however, a second case which is similar but also importantly different: that of APNG images in .png files. The first frame of this kind of images is shown by all browsers that support PNG images but not APNG images. In fact, as this example shows, the Wiki infrastructure already supports them as well, to the point that the details about the animation are shown next to the image name, and there is even a warning message about the automatically generated thumbnails not being animated. The current image use policies don't forbid them either, the only way to know that they are not recommended is seeing an old proposal.

At this point, I think a final clarification on this special kind of images should be done, and since it is impossible for them to be used for all kinds of animation, I see two possible policies, beside that of not changing anything:

TOLERANCE

The APNG images in .png files should be tolerated in special cases where the first frame is already informative enough, while not being mentioned in the policies in order to avoid suggesting their use; for example, a rescaled (250px of width) version of my example image might seem viable for infoboxes (please note that it won't be actually used as such, it's just an example image!), as the first frame is already informative enough, while the animation is a welcome plus. Note that this scenario does not enforce modifying the current infrastructure to generate animated thumbnails; while this would be a welcome feature, ultimately an user using this kind of images should also take on themselves the burden of uploading and using versions of said images with appropriate width and height on the Wiki, with due notices when this needs to happen and it's not happening.

COMPLETE AVOIDANCE

The current image use policies should be updated to explicitly forbid the use of APNG images in .png files, automated measures to issue warnings on APNG images on .png files might be done as well, but they are not part of this choice, since the Wiki staff should be able to handle the few cases in which these images are uploaded already well.

Proposer: Mister Wu (talk)
Deadline: November 26, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Tolerance

  1. Mister Wu (talk) I still think that, while they cannot fully replace GIF images and they cannot even be suggested as viable format for animated images, the APNG images on .png files can be useful in cases like the one I mentioned.
  2. Yoshi the Space Station Manager (talk) For me, a static picture on my end would be better than a bad looking picture. And when the day comes that Google does support APNGs, APNGs will become more popular. Especially since GIFs are outdated a bit. I support APNGs in PNGs.
  3. Lakituthequick (talk) I've been supportive in the past of APNG's that enhance the visual experience without being required, per that. Also see my comment below.

Complete avoidance

  1. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) See my comments below.

Not changing anything

  1. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) See my comments below.

Comments

Quoting myself from here: "There is no such thing as a .apng file, in the same fashion as there isn't a .agif file. The extension is always .png, animated or not." Be mindful of this.
Bulbapedia is a good example of good use. A lot, if not most sprites are APNG's over there. They don't appear to have any form of policy that I could find on it though, everyone just seems to go with it and tag them with a template. Lakituthequick.png Lakituthequick 15:03, 19 November 2016 (EST)

Should we then create a template that highlights the nature of the APNG? The bold warning below the text may not be immediately apparent. Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:26, 19 November 2016 (EST)
A template more or less is a must-have to avoid people replacing them with static images. Here's an example of usage. To illustrate the effect, two animated sprites are used in the template, with the warning not to replace the image if neither sprite moves. Images are also categorised. We should have a similar template to warn users to not upload static images (minus the first frame thing, as that isn't always the case). Lakituthequick.png Lakituthequick 04:04, 20 November 2016 (EST)
On a side note, the bold message is from MediaWiki:File-no-thumb-animation or MediaWiki:File-no-thumb-animation-png. These can be customized to be more prominent or suppressed in favor of a template notice. --A gossip-loving Toad (Talk) 08:53, 20 November 2016 (EST)
Thanks, though those pages are for the Wiki's main language (US English) only and won't affect users with a different display language. Lakituthequick.png Lakituthequick 16:43, 20 November 2016 (EST)

Although the quality is nice and can completely replace GIF, APNG is not a mainstream format nor is it an official format like GIF is. Internet Explorer doesn't support it and Google Chrome requires a plug-in. Also PNG Monstrous doesn't play nice with it because it removes metadata, and I think APNG's frames are metadata to the PNG format. Also what are some programs that could be used to create these APNGs? It would be much better to distinguish APNG with PNG by extension instead of a template. I think that MediaWiki can support the extension, judging by Special:MediaStatistics. MNG is being developed by the same group as PNG so there will be a distinction unlike PNG and APNG, but no MediaWiki support yet. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) (Stats - Contribs) 04:49, 20 November 2016 (EST)

MNG has already been released, but no browser development team wants to support it (Mozilla dropped support in its browsers in 2003); currently it's impossible to upload .apng images on this wiki (I tested this personally); the program you can use to create those APNG images are GIMP (I personally used it to create my example image) and VirtualDub (which I used to create this image); finally you're right, the other frames are in the ancillary chunks, meaning you should not use optimizers that get rid of ancillary chunks in these kinds of images (you should never get rid of ancillary chunks, by the way, as there are also those about gamma (gAMA chunk) and color space (cHRM, iCCP and sRGB), so you should seriously reconsider the use of these kinds of optimizations).--Mister Wu (talk) 06:26, 20 November 2016 (EST)
There is no reason to go about MNG as absolutely no support exists for it whatsoever, which isn't the case with APNG. Secondly, PNG is build around chunks, of which Mister Wu named a few. Some are indeed metadata, no problem (some of which you shouldn't delete, like author and copyright comments), others are used for the right display, gamma and animation chunks being examples. Optimisers just need to support these chucks in order to be viable, either be optimising them or ignoring them. The way PNG is build up makes the metadata-ness of a chunk up to what it does, not it's build.
Another editor to add to Mr. Wu's list is RealWorld Paint, and there are some programs you can feed separate PNG's and frame durations. Lakituthequick.png Lakituthequick 06:42, 20 November 2016 (EST)
This brings up an interesting question about how to optimize APNGs. Just like Photoshop, GIMP doesn't optimize its output if saved in the PNG format. PNG was never designed to be animated because the group thought that it would be dumb to add confusion to the format. Are there any programs that just "stitch together" PNGs to be outputted as APNG (no loading of the image to just be resaved and undo optimizations)? That's the only way I see optimization happen with APNGs. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) (Stats - Contribs)!
I think this is outside the scope of the proposal, but I believe that most outputters will only save the changed region of the image as a frame, i.e. if only a small region changes, only that region is saved. This is according to standard and is good practice anyway. A frame is saved in the exact same format as a normal PNG image (though all frames must use the same format), just named differently. You can choose to replace the entire aforementioned region, or paint over it, the latter being a good thing if the region doesn't change much, but does contain a lot of detail. Enough optimisation opportunities. Lakituthequick.png Lakituthequick 16:43, 20 November 2016 (EST)
THe APNG specification allows to code differences from previous frames using the Alpha channel, indeed, when adding the Alpha Channel in VirtualDub I obtained smaller file sizes in two cases I tested, in the case of my aforementioned example, without Alpha Channel the size is 224 MB, with Alpha Channel the size is 135 MB, so there are indeed many possible ways to optimize the output files; some of which are apparently already in use by current software.--Mister Wu (talk) 17:14, 20 November 2016 (EST)

Here's a different question; do APNGs work in iOS or Android? Also since the whole file is downloaded and nothing gets animated if it isn't supported, this could be really be detrimental to people with slow or metered connections. I'm pretty sure that GIF is massively supported and preferred in these cases. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) (Stats - Contribs) 18:24, 20 November 2016 (EST)

They work in iOS, and are even used and recommended for iMessage. They will likely be supported in Android as soon as Google Chrome supports them (this might happen earlier than expected, as development should start in Q4 of this year according to the Google Chrome staff). Regarding the concern of data use, my example, despite being formed by 7 frames at 786 × 890 resolution at 32 bits per pixel (8 bits per color channel + 8 bits Alpha channel), is still a 686 KB file, while the GIF is a 345 KB file despite being palettized; since there is a 10MB upload limit on the Wiki and due to the nature of the proposal, the APNG images would be used mostly for in-game data, which is easily compressible with the PNG format.--Mister Wu (talk) 19:03, 20 November 2016 (EST)

Redesign the Bestiaries

Following a proposal from January to redesign the RPG infoboxes and bestiaries, I propose a new way to handle bestiaries and RPG infoboxes from now on.

  1. All bestiaries will use templates rather than tables. ( look here ) - This gives a more appealing look, like an ID card, and makes it easier to fill out future bestiaries.
  2. Each template will be based on the respective RPG infobox - Doing this keeps the enemy stats consistent between the bestiary and infobox.
  3. All RPG infoboxes will use transclusion to display stats directly from the bestiary. ( look here ) - This makes distributing the infoboxes to each page easier, and ensures the infoboxes will ALWAYS have the exact same stats as the bestiary.

Now here is the code to display the Super Mario RPG bestiary template: 

<onlyinclude>
{{#ifeq:{{{transcludesection|SMRPGGoomba}}}|SMRPGGoomba|
{{<noinclude>User:Eldritchdraaks/SMRPGbestiary</noinclude>
<includeonly>smrpgenemy</includeonly>
|name=Goomba
|role=common
|image={{{image|[[File:RPGgoomba.png|120px]]}}}
|align={{{align|right}}}
|location=[[Mushroom Way]], [[Bandit's Way]], [[Pipe Vault]]
|hp=16
|atk=3
|matk=1
|def=3
|mdef=1
|speed=13
|moves=Thorn Shot
|items=None
|coins=0
|fp=100
|evade=0%
|mevade=0%
|strong=None
|weak=Fire
|exp=1
|flower=HP Max!
|cookie=Mushroom
|psychopath=Goomba gumba...phew!
}}}}</onlyinclude>

This keeps everything before it from being transcluded.
This is the label for this particular section.
This prevents the bestiary template from being transcluded.
This makes the infobox be transcluded on the target page only.
The name and the label must be the same.
(common, miniboss, boss, support, optional)
This allows the image to be changed separately in the infobox.
This allows controls of the infobox alignment. DON'T CHANGE HERE.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
This keeps everything after it from being transcluded.
Now below is the code used for placing the infobox: 
{{User:Eldritchdraaks/bestiary|transcludesection=SMRPGGoomba
|align=horizontal
}}

This will call on the section labeled on the bestiary.
This will control the alignment of the infobox.
 

Proposer: Eldritchdraaks (talk)
Deadline: November 29, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Eldritchdraaks (talk) per my proposal
  2. PowerKamek (talk) Looks good to me! It looks like a lot of effort was put into it.
  3. Ultimate Mr. L (talk) Per Eldritchdraaks. It would be a lot of work to implement this idea, but a lot easier in the long run.
  4. The RPG Gamer (talk) Per Eldritchdraaks.
  5. Luigi 64DD (talk) Per Eldritchdraaks.
  6. Shokora (talk) – Per proposal, this is very logical.
  7. Niiue (talk) Per all.
  8. Mister Wu (talk) This really seems to simplify the editing work and to avoid inconsistencies between bestiaries and infoboxes, so I support the idea!
  9. LudwigVon (talk) Per all.

Oppose

Comments

Do the color-scheme you use for the templates here will be implement if your proposal passed? Walkazo's RPG infoboxes use the same colour-scheme as navigation templates for consistency, neatness and easy readability and in my opinion those color-scheme are better.--LudwigVon Sig.png(TALK) 12:30, 22 November 2016 (EST)

The colors I used are not set in stone. I used the header color from the tables in each bestiary. The color-scheme will not be the same as the navigation templates, rather they will be different for each game.--EldritchdraaksSig1.pngEldritchdraaksSig2.png 12:45, 22 November 2016 (EST)

It looks like you thought everything through, but do we have to use your name to use the template? That seems a little inconvenient. And I agree with Ultimate Mr. L up there; it would take a while to implement them. Alex95sig1.pngAlex95sig2.png 12:49, 22 November 2016 (EST)

No, you won't, don't worry. That is just temporary. That links to the bestiary page for that game, which right now is my userspace.--EldritchdraaksSig1.pngEldritchdraaksSig2.png 13:00, 22 November 2016 (EST)

This idea is fantastic, the template will indeed ensure that any stat corrections on the bestiary will automatically be corrected on the transcluded articles as well. I do have a question first: do you intend to only apply this to specific character bestiary pages, such as "List of Goomba profiles and statistics"? Or is there the potential to extend this to game bestiaries as well, such as "Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam bestiary"? – Shokora (talk · edits) 18:02, 22 November 2016 (EST)

Everything you just said is exactly what I am proposing. This applies to all.--EldritchdraaksSig1.pngEldritchdraaksSig2.png 18:26, 22 November 2016 (EST)
Great, definitely supporting. I asked because I wasn't positive that it was taken into account with the single example that you gave. – Shokora (talk · edits) 19:25, 22 November 2016 (EST)
I didn't give just a single example. I provided two links above to show the templates in use, and to show the stats transcluded to the infobox.--EldritchdraaksSig1.pngEldritchdraaksSig2.png 19:31, 22 November 2016 (EST)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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