MarioWiki:Proposals

Current time: Saturday, June 8th, 22:47 GMT

Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken. "Vote" periods last for one week. Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!"). All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options. For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
   • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
   • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
9. All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
10. If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail with a margin of at least three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
14. Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

---

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "June 8, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

---

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
   • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

• Move the chef-based recipe lists (such as List of Tayce T. recipes) to game-based ones (discuss) Deadline: June 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Merge the corresponding chef-named recipes (discuss) Deadline: June 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Silver Credit and Gold Credit to Silver Card and Golden Card, respectively (discuss) Deadline: June 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Move Moo Moo back to cow (discuss) Deadline: June 10, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Consider Spike Top derived from both Buzzy Beetles and Spinies (discuss) Deadline: June 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to June 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Split Samus from List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. (discuss) Deadline: June 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Move attack info from Super Hammer to Spin Hammer and move the latter to Super Hammer (move) (discuss) Deadline: June 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Add Mario Bros. as a related game to the Super Mario series (discuss) Deadline: June 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Move Chain Chompikins from Madame Broode to Big Chain Chomp (discuss) Deadline: June 15, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Move List of Toad Town News in Paper Mario to simply "Toad Town News" (discuss) Deadline: June 18th, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Young Link and Toon Link info to Link's article (discuss) Deadline: June 20th, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Move Baby Donkey Kong to Baby DK (discuss) Deadline: June 21st, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Split Mario Kart Tour character variants into list articles, Tails777 (ended May 4, 2022)

Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)

Add tabbers to race/battle course articles, GuntherBB (ended November 18, 2023)

Remove elemental creatures categories from various Super Mario RPG enemies, Swallow (ended January 11, 2024)

Merge Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts, JanMisali (ended April 18, 2024)

Remove profiles and certain other content related to the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia from the wiki, Koopa con Carne (ended April 30, 2024)

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)

Consider "humorous" and other related terms as frequently misused in MarioWiki:Good writing, DrippingYellow (ended May 28, 2024)

• ^Note: Requires action from admins.

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)

Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)

Add product IDs in game infoboxes, Windy (ended March 18, 2023)

Convert the lists of episode appearances for television series characters into categories, Camwoodstock (ended November 22, 2023)

Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)

Split Mario's Time Machine (Nintendo Entertainment System), or the Super Nintendo Entertainment version along with both console versions of Mario is Missing!, LinkTheLefty (ended April 11, 2024)

Remove non-Super Mario content from Super Smash Bros. series challenges articles, BMfan08 (ended May 3, 2024)

Split Cheep Blimp (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) and Zeeppelin from the blimp page, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended May 28, 2024)

List of Talk Page Proposals

• Merge Wilt Shroom with Dried Shroom. (Discuss) Deadline: September 19, 2015, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Koopasta with Koopasta Dish. (Discuss) Deadline: September 21, 2015, 23:59 GMT
• Resize the Costume Mario costumes. (Discuss) Deadline: September 30, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Writing Guidelines

Restrict (if not remove) ImageMaps

• Draft: User:Bazooka Mario/sandbox# 3 (check this revision for any future reference if you ever need it).

ImageMap templates are images you find on articles such as in World 1 (New Super Mario Bros.) that are filled with links, where you click on a specific part of the image to go to a particular article. They're intended to help visual readers navigate the wiki and relevant games more easily, but I find their usage and implementation less than ideal. They qualify as mystery meat navigation, flashy, but user-hostile forms of linking. While the imagemaps in MarioWiki aren't as cryptic as the moon image example in the Wikipedia page, their designs are still confusing for the average reader for several reasons: they are awkwardly placed in articles and look identical to thumbnail images and their low-resolution quality (needed to fit inside the page) and lack of labels or clear borders make distinguishing between places difficult. As Wikipedia put it, "it may not be readily apparent that the image is a clickable map instead of a simple picture". They are even more difficult to use for mobile users since image maps heavily rely on hovering for labeling locations, which mobile users cannot do.

The World 1 example I listed is, unfortunately, typical of most imagemap templates: gaudy, gimmicky, and ultimately useless.

This proposal aims to address the following problems of each individual imagemaps. Deletion is usually preferred, but if you disagree for a particular ImageMap and have reasons to keep them, please state so.

It is also imperative to see comments below as well before you vote since these are not set in stone, and they can be changed even after the proposal has passed.

• {{LM Mansion Map}} (this one is especially confusing. Extremely user-hostile for those who are not familiar with Luigi's Mansion, but probably still confusing for those who are. It would work better in an article that lists all locations in Luigi's Mansion, but such article apparently doesn't exist. This, at best, should stay in the drawing board.)
• {{LM Lab Map}} (see LM Mansion Map. While LM Mansion Map might be a navigational aid for those in the middle of a game (although the Mansion isn't exactly a maze either), this one makes even less sense since the Lab is a small place)
• {{PDSMBE-map}} (this one is already covered by navigational template. Implementing this into the navigational template would just take up space)
• {{NSMB-W1map}} (it might have use, but it's very difficult to implement this template in any other spot in the article, and it looks bad the way it is)
• {{NSMB-W3map}} (see NSMB-W1map. That ImageTemplates are far from complete is troublesome (for the merits of Image Maps, which are already dubious anyway) but it might be good to restrict usage now before it gets out of hand)
• {{NSMB-W5map}} (see NSMB-W3map)
• {{NSMB2map}} (see PDSMBE-map)
• {{NSMBmap}} (see PDSMBE-map)
• {{NSMBUmap}} (this one is even more confusing, and it has to be ultra-low res for it to look barely presentable, which makes distinguishing between worlds very difficult; very user-hostile image-map that should be removed)
• {{PDSMBE-W1map}} (already covered in its respective article. Moreover, its location inside the level infobox makes it impossible to discern it from a normal image without hovering over its specific link points)
• {{M&L:BIS Bowser Map}} (not great, especially for those who haven't played the game. It might work for Bowser's body, but ideally, it should have labels, but the low-res nature thanks for AlphaDream makes it not worth it. It's still difficult pinpointing each location; case point, it took me, who hasn't played the game (and for those who are in the midst of playing the game, the game already provides labels to each location, if I'm correct) longer than it should to locate Trash Pit. Otherwise, it should be removed from area-specific articles due to its bad placements in those articles.)
• {{M&L:BIS Overworld Map}} (at best, it should stick to only to the game article, Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story. Even then, it looks inconspicuous and not very useful, and the in-game map probably already has those labels.)
• {{M&L:DT Overworld Map}} (this one is bad. The low resolution makes it difficult to distinguish between each area, so I think we should just nix this one.)
• {{M&L:PIT Overworld Map}} (it's not horrible, but I question its usefulness the same way I question M&L BIS Overworld Map's utility. I'm aware that in-game, the map itself already provides pointers to where you are, making it even more useless for those in the midst of playing the game.)
• {{M&L:SS Overworld Map}} (see M&L:PIT Overworld Map. Its in-game map also has labels and makes this one useless when it comes to wiki coverage. This one is particularly difficult to use due to its low-res nature and that certain major areas including Beanbean Castle Town are difficult to locate. Also, Beanbean Outskirts is located in a specific spot when it should surround Beanbean Castle, but I suppose that's impossible with this system. So, remove it.)
• {{PM Map}} (Not good. Its low-res nature makes it difficult to use, as with most Image Map templates. It would work if it were bigger and had labels. Its placement in articles is just as miserable as in most Image Map templates.
• {{PMTTYDmap}} (again, it's very difficult to distinguish between places without squinting)
• {{SMRPGmap}} It would probably work for general overhead articles, but only if it actually looks different from other images. It's still difficult to use since some places are bordering microscopic.
• {{SMW2YI Map}} Utterly pointless (not to mention gaudy in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, and when you have screenshots that have this stuff in it, like in World 6 (Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island), it's also confusing.
• {{SMWmap}} It might work, but its current implementation is difficult to use and requires a microscope. It still needs to be confined to overview articles rather than area-specific articles.
• {{SMWmap2}} See SMWmap; this one looks identical.
• {{SPPMap}} It might work, but confine it to general overview articles (Vibe Island in this case) rather than slapping it everywhere. It still needs to be placed in a better spot, but the low-res nature of it makes it difficult for me to think of a method where it doesn't resemble a plain image.
• {{WL4 Golden Pyramid Map}} Pointless. Names are a good indicator of each place. Actually, this applies to most areas in most games.
• {{YIDS Map}} Utterly pointless.
• {{YISMA3 Map}} Utterly pointless.

Common issues:

• Difficult-to-distinguish locations
• Bad placement, especially within more area-specific articles (placement in overview articles are not great either).
• Redundant.
• Aside from a tiny i icon, looks identical to normal images.
• Due to the over reliance on hover-text, mobile users cannot benefit from Image Maps.

This is a writing guidelines proposal because there is a policy page dedicated to this under the writing guidelines category. Again, some ImageMaps may be worthy of keeping (I have doubts though), but if so, then it must caution users when making ImageMaps and they need to be implemented in a manner that doesn't highly resemble normal images, perhaps a special border around the image with the label "image map", no thumbnail framing, and located in a more conspicuous spot in the article. Either way, all Image Maps have their issues and I can't say I like they way they're implemented here. I prefer if they were deleted and at least placed back in the drawing board so it doesn't look at bad as it is now, but all-out-deletion may be too much, so I'm open for suggestions and objections.

Proposer: Bazooka Mario (talk)
Deadline: September 18, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Bazooka Mario (talk) All Image Maps, in my opinion, are highly flawed design aspects in our wiki. I used to think they are useful for the visual learners (including me), but they have only disappointed me so far for these above reasons. I think deletion or at least a highly confined usage will work for them. This is "Writing Guidelines" because it's a major change in one of our policies if it passes.
2. 3D Player 2010 (talk) Per Bazooka Mario.
3. Time Turner (talk) Per Mario.
4. Roy Koopa (talk) Per proposal.
5. Pyro Guy (talk) Per proposal.
6. PowerKamek (talk) Per proposal
7. Andymii (talk) I've changed my mind. Through the comments, Bazooka Mario has made it very clear what the goal of this proposal is. I still think this proposal isn't perfect, but I think we've made some decent progress that warrants my vote.
8. Walkazo (talk) - Image Maps are good for orientation in the directory articles (game and overall world/place pages), but not as alternative navigation templates on the specific location/level pages. See my comments about which ones should be scrapped or saved, but overall, a proposal to rehabilitate their use and fix the policy page is one I can get behind, and the draft is well enough along at this point for me to formally support.

Oppose

#Andymii (talk) Okay, hear me out. I agree with what's been said, and I agree that image maps are a mess. However, I don't think removing some without further thought is a good idea. This is the type of thing that can be changed, improved, and fixed. I'm not the best at coding, but I'm sure there's a way to make image maps appealing to everyone. If we try improving image maps and it doesn't work, ah well, maybe then we can think of removing them. But for now, give it a chance. After all, it's not the idea that is flawed; it's the presentation. Also, see my comments below. They are arguebly just as important.

1. Pseudo-dino (talk) Per all, Andymii in particular.

Comments

Not that I disagree with what's being proposed, but if you're going to make a writing guidelines proposal, don't you need to make a draft? Hello, I'm Time Turner.

Well, I'm not sure what the draft might look like as of yet, but the policy page implies that the process of writing a draft can be done during proposal process (that "writing guideline proposals are given two weeks as opposed to one so as to allow sufficient time to perfect the document.") Also, my proposal aims to either nix or highly restrict their usage, something I don't feel is worth potentially splitting the vote (I can go with either one), so I'm not 100% sure what's supposed to be in the draft yet, or if there is a call for a draft. It was difficult for me to determine if this proposal is about general change, removal, or a writing guideline, but I stuck with writing guideline since it involves potentially (emphasis on potentially) changing a MarioWiki policy or making it moot. In other words, I'm highly uncertain. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 18:48, 4 September 2015 (EDT)

Okay, I got the draft down. That might be a start. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:32, 4 September 2015 (EDT)

These are kind of useful. What will we do if they get removed or restricted? (talk|contribs) Kamek Power! 00:23, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

They are not useful as I explained above, and for these reasons, they are a user-hostile design that shouldn't be in this wiki in their current state. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:35, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

Andymii: This proposal is not wholly about removing Image Maps, it's simply restricting their usage at best if in case there are reasons to keep one or two. As I said, "I prefer if they were deleted and at least placed back in the drawing board so it doesn't look at bad as it is now, but all-out-deletion may be too much, so I'm open for suggestions and objections." I'm saying that even at best, we should send Image Maps back to the drawing board to allow them to get improved so we can readd them when needed. Image Maps as they are are abused and look terrible in most articles they are in, mostly scrunched below the infobox, hidden at the bottom of the article, or being redundantly placed directly next to the list of levels. They're the gaudiest part of our wiki and thus, they don't improve our credibility. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:35, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

And even if Image Maps are highly flawed in design, our Writing Guidelines for Image Maps set them up to be low-res and inconspicuous and I already pointed out those problems in my draft. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:36, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

Good points, but I don't think we really know what we will do next. You've listes some image maps with comments, but most of them are just "this is useless" (okay, more detailed than that, but, ya know.) I'm always open for change, but I don't think this has been completely thought through. Not that I'm saying all our changes should be black and white, but I'm genuinelly unsure here what's going to happen next. --Andymii (talk) 00:13, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

I think the likeliest change would be keeping ImageMaps within generic location articles (like Bowser's Body, BeanBean Kingdom) while removing Image Maps from level/world articles. Remember, they can always be reimplemented, but I just don't like their current state right now. I'm emphasizing on "if not remove" part of the proposal title. See, that's what a draft is for, and that's why "Writing Guidelines" go for two weeks, for me to think and allow people to point out suggestions and other comments. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 01:15, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

Oh, I'm sorry. I had a misunderstanding. You're thinking of deleting the maps from level/world articles and keeping them on generic location articles. I actually think that's a good idea. I wish I supported.

(talk|contribs) Kamek Power! 10:08, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

You can remove your opposition vote and support the proposal instead, you know. - Walkazo (talk) 12:07, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

So I finally got enough time to look at this proposal properly (except for the writing guideline draft: I'll try to get to that tonight or tomorrow) and go through the templates one-by-one, and here's my thoughts, grouped by map type / verdict for clarity:

• {{LM Mansion Map}} - Keep: it'd be good for Luigi's Mansion (place) and Luigi's Mansion. But I'd suggest redesigning it to that all 5 levels are vertically arranged (rather than two columns), with a bit of blank space between each as buffers so that it's clearer that they're different floors.
• {{LM Lab Map}}, {{WL4 Golden Pyramid Map}} - Scrap: too small to be worth-while.
• {{PDSMBE-map}}}}, {{NSMB2map}}, {{NSMBmap}}, {{SMW2YI Map}}, {{YIDS Map}}, {{YISMA3 Map}} - Scrap: the labels are in the images already; just have the regular images on the pages rather than all the trouble of a template.
• {{NSMB-W1map}}, {{NSMB-W3map}}, {{PDSMBE-W1map}} - Keep: since there's branching pathways it's not completely intuitive what the numbers always are, and provided all the worlds get them, they could be used in both those articles in the infoboxes (P&D is fine but the NSMB infobox needs to be wider to be legible) and the game pages (i.e. stacked in the "Worlds" sections next to the descriptions, rather than just single world examples).
• {{NSMBUmap}}, {{M&L:BIS Overworld Map}}, {{M&L:DT Overworld Map}}, {{M&L:PIT Overworld Map}}, {{M&L:SS Overworld Map}}, {{PM Map}}, {{PMTTYDmap}}, {{SMRPGmap}}, {{SMWmap}}, {{SPPMap}} - Keep: not all the area names are intuitive, and the maps will fit on the game and location pages well enough (in place of mere images, and at large-enough sizes, not scaled down). The only issue is that larger areas should have more than one tiny clickable area (e.g. add multiple link sites for Beanbean Outskirts, and all the NSMBU areas, etc.).
• {{M&L:BIS Bowser Map}} - Keep: it's good for Bowser's body and the M&L3 game article since then you can match up the locations to the nodes (otherwise long windy directions are needed since it's not intuitive at all a lot of the time; that'd be fine for individual location articles, but it'd be too much all in one place).
• {{SMWmap2}} - Scrap: duplicate of {{SMWmap}}

Overall thoughts: The overworld maps are good for game and place articles (Beanbean Kingdom, etc.), and the world-specific maps are good for the world articles and the game articles, as long as all the worlds have them. When a template is used on an article, it should be used in place of a mere image of the map; this will often mean putting the template in the infobox, which should be fine as long as the infoboxes aren't obscenely wide (but most templates are only about 400 px or less wide, which would be fine for an infobox, and should be clear enough to be readable and useable). If the names of the places are right there in the level/world select screens, no template's necessary to tell readers what place is what. - Walkazo (talk) 16:45, 7 September 2015 (EDT)

I'll get around to some revisions, but do you think how Image Maps are placed are a problem? That ImageMaps aren't immediately discernible from simple images is an issue. I think the infobox might need some revision to let readers better know that these are Image Maps. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 18:19, 7 September 2015 (EDT)

Just include a "click the level icons/areas/etc. to go to the relevant articles" note as a caption (no <br> following the template) for the images in infoboxes, and when images aren't in infoboxes, like in game pages, just mention it in the text or the thumbnail notes (depending on whether it's formatted as a thumbnail or not - anything that goes in infoboxes shouldn't be). - Walkazo (talk) 18:55, 7 September 2015 (EDT)

Wow, I didn't realize how terrible MarioWiki:Image Maps is... Anyway, I looked over the draft, but there's so many problems with the source material, I gave up on trying to succinctly comment and just did a whole new draft for the policy parts, based on some of your comments on your draft page, and also things that I said here, and extra bits that occurred to me as I was working. Let me know what you think. - Walkazo (talk) 21:55, 8 September 2015 (EDT)

Yeah, I was wondering why it seems so... amateur to me, nothing against Megadardery (he's not a native speaker if I recall correctly). Yeah, my draft probably isn't the best, so I just made comments here and there. Well, is it fine if I incorporate the draft soon? I still have yet to look over it, but at a glance, it seems fine... It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 00:07, 10 September 2015 (EDT)

Yep, if you wanna use my draft, feel free to copypasta it (and then make any fixes or further changes if you see fit, but for clarity, I'd use separate edits than the initial moving of the content). If this passes, I can update the protected policy page for you and ensure the appropriate credit is given to both of us in the summary. - Walkazo (talk) 18:39, 10 September 2015 (EDT)

Okay, I've done it, and I've included some (not much!) commentary on some points. It's mostly for clarification or other questions. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:53, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

Cool. I updated my page to better explain the default link stuff), and also made the "no fan images" part of the main point rather than a subpoint unto itself (but I think it should still be explicitly said to make absolutely sure people get the point). As for the size/clarity one, the subpoint gives examples already, so more aren't necessary. EDIT: I also made a few grammar tweaks on top of your changes, shown here. - Walkazo (talk) 17:06, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

That's what I thought the extra bullet point was meant to hammer in readers, but I think how you merged it is a better idea. One more statement that isn't made very clear to me is the one that starts with "Locations that are widespread in the map[...]". I'm not sure why I haven't commented on this earlier, but later reading it, I kind of go "huh?". It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:43, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

Like how in {{NSMBUmap}}, all the areas are pretty large, yet once the text disappears after you hover-over part of the area, it doesn't appear again as you waver the mouse around the rest of the large area - so I feel like in these cases, it'd be good to break the areas into smaller chunks so the text can come up more than once and show it's all the same place. Plus, as been mentioned before, places like the Beanbean Outskirts are all around the castle, but only have a link underneath in {{M&L:SS Overworld Map}}, so multiple links would be good for those as well. - Walkazo (talk) 18:05, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

Beanbean Outskirts is a good example to provide for this then. I couldn't find the link for it myself, so I speak from personal experience. Thanks for the clarification! It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 18:26, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

Okay, so I went ahead and rewrote the bottom half of MarioWiki:Image Maps too - to the best of my abilities, anyway, but I'm pretty sure all the coding stuff is right. - Walkazo (talk) 20:51, 15 September 2015 (EDT)

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Add "bugs and" or "and bugs" to "List of glitches in"

First, my reasoning is bugs and glitches are not the same. A bug is a minor glitch (like a short-lived audio glitch, which would be considered a bug according to this proposal), whereas a full-blown glitch is something that is longterm, causes a game to freeze, and so on and so forth. For example: this is what would be considered a bug, but this would be a full-blown glitch.

Proposer: Roy Koopa (talk)
Deadline: September 20, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Change

1. Roy Koopa (talk) per my own proposal.

Leave as is

1. Walkazo (talk) - Seems too similar and minor to bother changing all these titles, and mouthful "_ and _" names are less than ideal in general. The only reason we're stuck with "pre-release and unused" is because there's no nice umbrella term, but I feel like the broad meaning of "glitch", like how we currently use it, is more widespread and accepted than "beta" was, with a lot of (if not most) folks using it and "bug" interchangeably.
2. PowerKamek (talk) Per Walkazo. Better off staying how they are.
3. BabyLuigi64 (talk) Per Walkazo, as well as Baby Luigi in the comments.
4. Bazooka Mario (talk) I think it's totally fine to create a page called Bug and redirect it to Glitch, but beyond that, I feel the definitions here are a smidge pedantic, unlike the far more confusing "subspecies" and "beta".
5. Magikrazy (talk) Walky said it better, but I don't see the point. Bugs and glitches are already near synonyms and I doubt anyone's getting confused.

Comments

I'm on the edge with this, but your description is wrong. The term of a bug and glitches is not defined on how damaging of a scale they are (both can cause game-breaking things, it depends on what component of the game experiences that or that), but the processes that caused them. Glitches, I believe, are things that the game developers did not intend/over-looked that are performed by the player, while a bug is a problem in the coding of the software itself. But since we do use "pre-release and unused" for that, I don't see why we can't add "bugs" to the title description. However, most people say those two interchangeably, so I do think it's verging in pedantry. Ray Trace^(T|C) 16:52, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

I wasn't talking about the level of damage but the significance of a glitch. And while they are interchangeable, that is only in speaking. On the wiki, however, the two should have different meanings. File:RoyNSMBU.png Roy Koopa 16:57, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

It's still not dependent on the magnitude of the glitch. As I said, the term is defined more of processes that caused the error in the game rather than how significant they are, as both are fully capable of crashing the game or whatever, so it's really hard to define terms that way (like, a minor clip bug could cause the rest of the game to be unplayable, because you cannot advance due to it). And tell why they should? I have said why they should not; because it's for the convenience of searching for these articles and because it's used interchangeably in normal speak. Compared to beta elements, that is. I've also stated why we should, to be consistent with the pre-released and unused content article. Ray Trace^(T|C) 17:01, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

About the minor clip bug, that would call for a reset of the system/software. As for the convenience of searching bit, if someone doesn't know we only use the term "glitches" and looked up "List of bugs in," they would get nowhere. As you might be able to see, this proposal is more for the help of readers who have no intention of editing, anons who edit, and new users. File:RoyNSMBU.png Roy Koopa 17:12, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Exactly, you've proved my point on why we don't define the terms solely because of how big and game-changing they are. There are far too many variables and parameters we have to define; saying the processes that caused this and this error is a better way to define "bug" and "glitch" rather than how significant it is, and "significant" is a pretty loose and relative term. Also, I think we need more redirects in general with the whole lists thing, like List of minigames articles needs more redirects. Ray Trace^(T|C) 17:16, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

What if I added an option to say "Redirect 'List of bugs in' to 'List of glitches in'"? File:RoyNSMBU.png Roy Koopa 17:20, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Maybe? Maybe not. I don't know about this. Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:58, 14 September 2015 (EDT)

I don't think anyone would object if you created Bug as a redirect to Glitch although "bug" can mean other things. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:08, 14 September 2015 (EDT)

I don't think there is a need to split the vote between "bugs and" and "and bugs". Just a simple support would suffice so determining outcomes would be simpler. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:14, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Do you mean have the voters post their opinion in the vote? File:RoyNSMBU.png Roy Koopa 17:15, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

I mean, you can merge your "bugs and" and "and bugs" choices into one support vote. They're pretty much the same thing, so there's no need to mull over the order of the elements. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:23, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

@Walkazo Adding two syllables is not a mouthful imo. Six syllables (I counted) is though. File:RoyNSMBU.png Roy Koopa 17:28, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

You're not adding just syllables, but extra spaces and characters. It makes the title and links look more clunky. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 18:11, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

ummmm...how does it make a link clunky? File:RoyNSMBU.png Roy Koopa 21:12, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

In the navigation templates mostly, so you mostly have to resort to piping there. And considering that it's not all that necessary, then I'm not sure if it's worth lengthening the name like that. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 14:58, 14 September 2015 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.