Template talk:Super Mario games

Mario Clash - a 3D game?

Do you really think Mario Clash fits into the "Mario 3D series" category? I don't think it does. It's just two-dimensional gameplay that happens on two different layers. It doesn't have any similarity to Super Mario 64 and any Mario games after that, as it's clearly an extended version of the original Mario Bros. game. I think we should put it among the 2D series games instead. - Cobold (talk · contribs) 17:04, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

I agree with Cobold. We don't have New Super Mario Bros. as 3D, despite it having 3D graphics, because it 2D gameplay. Yoshario

Mario Party 3, Mario Kart DS, Mario Super Sluggers, etc.

What happened to all the spinoffs??? KS3 (talk)

I don't know, but I am planning to do that thing too. Happy Halloween!

Rules for Other Games

There are many Mario games so the Other Games section can get crowded. I suggest non-narrative games such as sports and party games as well as edutainment games be moved to Template:Spinoffs or to the sub-series' own template. The rule of inclusion in Other Games should be the operability of Mario.

• 1. Was it developed internally by Nintendo?
• 2. Can you play as and control Mario?
• 3. If yes, is he in a game with a plot or narrative?
• 4. If yes, Is there significant gameplay? (this removes most edutainment games)

This should prevent the template from be cluttered.--Platform 14:13, 16 September 2011 (EDT)

Super Mario Land and Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins

I don't understand why they aren't included in the main series... Gameplay-wise, story-wise, developer-wise and platform-wise they are perfectly legit core Mario games.

I assume the only reason this happened is because they were not includes in the 25th Anniversary list. While that also set me back at the time, I think it's perfectly conceivable that the reason it wasn't included was the fact that, at the time, the Land series was obscure to the younger audience -- considering that 3DS Virtual Console wasn't released at the time.

The fact that Land 3 introduces Wario Land is much like how World 2 introduces Yoshi's Island, so, that's also not a problem. As a final argument, the 'Land' brand has returned this year with 3D Land, so, I don't think Nintendo and Miyamoto disregards the two Land games from the main Mario series.

I think the inclusion of SML and SML2 to the template should be reconsidered. :) -Ash Pokemaster 11:10, 27 December 2011 (EST)

I agree. In fact, all mario games with the name "Super Mario" is absolutely part of the main series without question. Technically Super Mario Land 3 is part of the main series whether one accepts it or not. However, exceptions definitely include RPG games which goes without saying. Wikipedia even supports this fact. 27.96.204.95 20:34, 1 January 2016 (EST)

Why are RPGs listed here?

They're obviously Mario spin-offs: they belong in the Mario spin-off template, not here. Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 15:05, 19 February 2014 (EST)

I agree that RPGs are spin-offs, but at the same time, the Spinoffs template already has an abundance of games. Just for the sake of making it less clogged, I'd rather keep it here. Hello, I'm Time Turner.

I think a separate template for RPG's could be good. KP (talk · edits)

@Time Turner: I'd prefer accuracy over clogged stuff: I've seen more templates bunched up than this. Adding an extra section in the Mario spin-offs wouldn't hurt. And I don't understand why Mario RPGs should get any more special treatment than say, Mario Kart or Mario Party ? Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 15:44, 19 February 2014 (EST)

RPGs qualify as Mario spinoffs, however, so it makes more sense that the RPGs go under the Mario spin-off template. I wouldn't keep the RPGs here just because the spinoffs template is big already; that's a weak reason. I prefer accuracy over presentation. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:48, 19 February 2014 (EST)

Add Amiibo?

Just a suggestion, want to see what people think. Toad and his brigade! 22:08, 14 January 2015 (EST)

amiibo isn't a game.

-Toa 95 (talk)

Super Mario Maker is part of the main series

Super Mario Maker is not a spin-off, or a side game. It is part of the main series and should be listed there asap. 27.96.204.95 20:33, 1 January 2016 (EST)

It's actually listed under "Miscellaneous" but listing it alongside the mainstream games feels... weird; even if it is a mainstream game, it's a very unconventional one being more focused on being a tool rather than an actual game. In the end, I'll put in under "platformers" but under "other". It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 00:31, 9 January 2016 (EST)

I think it's fine in Misc, although part of me also wants to say put it in the Art Utilities area and just figure out a broader name for that category. I just worry that having it in the "other" platformer area might just make it seem conspicuously not in with the other "Super Mario" platformers. - Walkazo 00:35, 9 January 2016 (EST)

Elaborate on the last point? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 00:46, 9 January 2016 (EST)

Irrespective of it feels weird or not, Mario Maker is listed as part of the "main" platformer series in that 30th anniversary book. --Glowsquid (talk) 10:00, 9 January 2016 (EST)

Bump, but so are the Super Mario Land games. I'm confused. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 01:09, 31 January 2016 (EST)

Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario

Shouldn't these two distinct series be split based on their respective series instead of being under a single role-playing category (since "Role-playing" is an extremely broad genre and it arguably encompasses more games than just Mario & Luigi, Paper Mario, and that one Square Enix one. Though it raises the question of what that Square Enix RPG will go...) I think we should translate the RPG similar to how "Sports Games" and "Crossovers" are managed, split them off to two series, and maybe put SMRPG in a misc section Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 00:39, 9 January 2016 (EST)

Renaming to "Mario franchise"

Shouldn't we also include nonvideo game media in this template, or should we rename it to keep the scope to just the games? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:50, 17 August 2016 (EDT)

Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle

This game should be in "Crossovers" not "Miscellaneous", as that game is a crossover with the Raving Rabbids series.
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Searingjet (talk).

The Crossover category is limited to the Mario & Sonic and Super Smash Bros. series at the moment, otherwise, Fortune Street would be there as well. We may need to restructure the template... 22:28, 18 June 2017 (EDT)

Was just about to reply, lol. But yeah, an "Other" section has been added to "Crossovers" for any non-Mario & Sonic and Smash crossovers. Mario JC 22:35, 18 June 2017 (EDT)

Split into smaller templates?

This template is already quite large and will get larger in the future. One can imagine what it will look like decades into the future. Smaller templates can be made from the left most column so there will be one for platformers, rpgs, sports, etc.--Platform (talk) 01:49, 26 January 2019 (EST)

Or maybe have one template with smaller templates inside of it? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:17, 26 January 2019 (EST)

Doc's idea seems most suitable to me. ^(T|C) 02:22, 26 January 2019 (EST)

I had considered that with the numerous Koopa templates before, but decided that the clashing colors would be too much. This, on the other hand, is a more viable situation. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:33, 26 January 2019 (EST)

I agree to that.--Platform (talk) 03:27, 26 January 2019 (EST)

I agree with Doc's idea as this template is massive and it always felt surprising that we did not have a template for Mario Kart games, Mario Tennis games and other spin-off series with a large amount of entries so turning this template into one with several templates would make it easier to navigate. Doomhiker (talk) 7:37 January 26 2019 (EST)

Super Mario Bros. 35

This game should be in the "Other" part of the platformer section, as it is not a mainline Mario game. --Mjmannella (talk) 22:20, September 6, 2020 (EDT)

That was your tenth edit, so you're autoconfirmed and can edit it now. --DarkNight 22:46, September 6, 2020 (EDT)

Super Mario Maker (2)?

This is listed as a main game, but according to the official Super Mario Encyclopedia (https://www.mariowiki.com/Super_Mario_Bros._Encyclopedia) it is **not** a mainline Mario game.
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.0.100.67 (talk).

See this proposal; the official website also lists it among the others. Mario JC 05:56, September 13, 2020 (EDT)

Dr. Mario should be listed as (NES/Game Boy), not just (NES). - DKL (talk) 13:45, June 18, 2021 (EDT)

Length

This navtemp is, quite frankly, getting absurdly long. There are multiple things we can do about this; we can outright split it into several smaller templates, or what I would prefer, break it down into internal templates akin to what we do with the gallery navtemp. Anyways, it is indeed very large, and also the way it is set up now, the Kart series is several layers of separation away from the other racing games listed as miscellaneous "sports" games (of which racing, including Kart is indeed a subgenre of). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:33, June 3, 2023 (EDT)

Nearly a year later, but I do have a WIP "idea" for the Mario franchise that WOULD, when the layering is applied to this template, fix this issue. Of course, it's WIP. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 08:36, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

I think making individual subsections of the template collapsible like the Galleries template makes the most sense. I could even see a case for combining this with the other top-level Games navigational templates if the "this template is way too big" issue is solved; none of the "list of games" articles group games together by series like this, so using one all-encompassing navigational template for every game regardless of which of the franchises it's in could be useful. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 09:22, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

Yeah, true, as well as using the layering from my WIP "idea" of a Mario franchise rework. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 09:52, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

Hmm, it's a decent concept, but I'm not sure about some of the specific choices your model is using. A lot of it seems to be based on conjecture. For the mainline games in particular, I don't think calling 2D platformers "the Super Mario Bros. subseries" and the 3D platformers "the Super Mario subseries" is justified, and for that matter introducing a third thing that "Super Mario game" means on this wiki would just be confusing. I'd suggest (in decreasing order of how much sense I think they make) either keeping the mainline 2D and 3D games together as one thing (the current system), subdividing by genre without referring to the individual subgroups as "subseries" (the system Wikipedia uses for its Super Mario series template), or subdividing entirely based on branding (Super Mario Bros. subseries (including the New Super Mario Bros. sub-subseries), Super Mario Land subseries, Super Mario Galaxy subseries, Super Mario 3D subseries (as in 3D Land and 3D World), Super Mario Maker subseries, and miscellaneous games that are part of the Super Mario series without being in a subseries). jan Misali (talk · contributions) 10:52, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

Well, to be honest, the "sub-series" stuff was more based on "2D is Super Mario Bros. because that's the main bit of their titles, and 3D is Super Mario because there's no Bros. in their titles, Super Mario Land and New Super Mario Bros. are sub-subseries because they deviate enough to be sub-series, but not enough to be separate from Super Mario Bros., etc." The misc. stuff I haven't got too, so good catch! SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 11:03, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

64, Sunshine, Galaxy / 2, Odyssey, etc. are also in the Super Mario 3D series, going by Super Mario 3D All-Stars. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:13, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

Ah, yes, I did use the 3D All-Stars argument of "64, Sunshine, & Galaxy are part of the same series as Super Mario 3D Land/World, so use the shared name, hence Super Mario". SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 11:16, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

In a purely branding-based approach, I suppose that makes sense. However, none of the other 3D Super Mario games are titled "Super Mario 3D something" individually, and in terms of game design 3D Land and 3D World are the same "type" of 3D Mario as each other. I still think it makes more sense to not use this "subseries" concept in the first place, but if the Land games count as a subseries, I'd see no reason not to also specifically count 3D Land and 3D World as a subseries. (And, for the record, using titles of games as a high-priority deciding factor for how to classify them isn't a great idea anyway. That's how you get things like Mario Bros. (Game & Watch) being classified as a "reissue" of an arcade game with completely different gameplay and theming that was released three months later.) jan Misali (talk · contributions) 11:35, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

Bruh. Should the Super Mario sub-series be split into 2 sub-sub-series?? SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 11:38, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

My personal opinion is that I don't think it makes sense to refer to a "Super Mario subseries" in the first place. Yes, there are official sources that refer to a Super Mario Bros. subseries, but there's no need or justification to put everything else into a confusingly-named subseries that shares its name with both the series and franchise it's a part of. It gives the impression that the 3D Super Mario games are to the Super Mario series what the Super Mario series is to the Super Mario franchise, as in "The mainline games are the platformers, but the MAINLINE mainline games are specifically the 3D platformers". jan Misali (talk · contributions) 12:02, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

This is the wrong talk page for this... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:13, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

@JanMisaliNO THAT'S NOT WHY I DID THAT! IT'S BECAUSE OF THE NAMES!!!!!!! Plus, @Doc von Schmeltwickthis started out as what it was, then I brought up my idea, that lead to this. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 13:31, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

Yeah, this has gotten too far off-topic, sorry. I'll continue on the talk page for the relevant WIP page. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 13:48, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

WOAH WOAH WOAH! If you want to continue this, continue it here! SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 13:55, May 7, 2024 (EDT)

Puzzle & Reflexion games

This talk page or section has a conflict or question that needs to be answered. Please try to help and resolve the issue by leaving a comment.

Something that’s always bothered me with this template is the placement of the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series in the “Platformers” row. There are eight games in the series (nine if you count the remake of Mario vs. Donkey Kong), and only one of them could reasonably be considered a platformer — the first one.

I understand why it was categorized that way, but I don’t agree with the reasoning. So, I decided to create a dedicated “Puzzle & Reflexion Games” row where all of these titles could go. In this new category, you’ll find the aforementioned Mario vs. Donkey Kong series, the Dr. Mario series, the Picross series (moved here from the “Miscellaneous” row), and Mario & Wario, which again isn’t really a platformer.

Now, I know this divides the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series between two categories, and I don’t have a completely satisfying answer for that. I suppose we could also include Mario vs. Donkey Kong in the “Puzzle & Reflexion Games” row since it’s technically a puzzle-platformer, but it still feels a bit weird to list the same entry twice in one template. So… urghhh…

I’m also tempted to include other games here, such as the Wrecking Crew series, Hotel Mario, and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, but I’d need to familiarize myself more with those titles and think about it a bit before making a decision.

For example, should we prioritize the fact that Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker is related to Super Mario 3D World (and place it in the “Related” subsection), or should we judge the game on its own merits? Personally, I’d lean toward the latter — but again… urghhhh… --Conradd (talk) 00:27, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

...Shouldn't this have been a discussion or proposal before you decided to make the change without consulting ANYONE? This sounds like a huge change that will have a big impact on several pages (and not just the nav template). Like, you're completely recategorizing several spinoff series with this.
Also, what does "Puzzle & Reflexion" even mean? And wouldn't it be "puzzle and reflection" instead? rend (talk) (edits) 01:22, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

I suppose I should have started with a proposal, sure — but since this isn’t the first time I’ve reorganized the template like this, and it didn’t seem to bother anyone before, I figured it would be fine to continue in the same way.

As for what “Puzzle & Reflection Games” means… I think it’s pretty self-explanatory, no? It’s all about the gameplay focus. Like, hmm, how do I place this pill so that it kill those virus and maybe maximizes the number of points I get? Or hmm, how do I get these little robots — or that fool with a bucket on his head — from here to there safely, maybe in the shortest time possible?

I’m not a native English speaker, so I sometimes use ChatGPT to help me with grammar. Since it didn’t flag that word as incorrect, I just assumed that’s how it was supposed to be written.--Conradd (talk) 01:57, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

May I ask what the previous changes you made to the template were like? I'd figure it hadn't bothered anyone before if they weren't as drastic as this.
Also, the reason why I asked what "Puzzle and reflection games" even are is because... well, because "reflection" isn't a video game genre (at least from what I can tell). Puzzle games are a genre, and is even recognized by the wiki as such, but I've never heard of reflection games before. It sounds like you made up a game genre just so you could lump it in with puzzle games and justify why the Mario vs. Donkey Kong games should be listed there... which isn't even necessary, because the Mario vs. Donkey Kong games are already part of the Puzzle games category. So renaming the whole thing would do more harm than good.
Technically, "reflexion" is a correct spelling, but it's an archaic term for "reflection", at least according to my dictionary. But another reason why I ask what "reflexion" means is because despite it being synonymous to "reflection", it sounds like it is an extension on the word "reflex", whereas the latter is one on "reflect"; these two words can have entirely different meanings, so it's entirely possible that you could've meant these were instinctive games instead of thinking games. But the way you've explained the meaning, it sounds like "reflection" is an entirely redundant addition to the term "puzzle game". Not that "reflex" isn't redundant either, given the explanation here.rend (talk) (edits) 06:21, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

So, I checked because you made me doubt myself, and yes — it is indeed “reflexion” (you can search “reflexion games” on Google or Google Images if you want).

To me, reflexion games is simply a synonym for brain-teaser games, which in turn is just another way to say puzzle games. I initially wanted to call the row Puzzle games, but I thought that might sound a bit too narrow or confusing for most people. When you say puzzle games, I imagine the first things that come to mind for many are titles like Tetris, Columns, Panel de Pon, or Meteos — not something like Professor Layton or the Mario vs. Donkey Kong games (which are also puzzle games, just of a different kind).

So, I added “& Reflexion Games” mainly as a clarification, to better reflect the broader range of puzzle-oriented titles included in the category. All in all, it’s not a drastic change — I was simply grouping puzzle games together. --Conradd (talk) 07:00, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

Okay, so I checked again, and it turns out that reflexion can indeed be used with game to mean “brain-teaser”, “thinking game”, or simply “puzzle game”, but it’s just a much rarer occurrence. At first, I thought it was simply a misnomer, but no — it does exist. I guess English speakers just don’t use this word as often to describe this type of game. For example, in French, we commonly say “jeu de réflexion”. --Conradd (talk) 07:33, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

Huh, you learn something new everyday...
Well, regardless, if we were to introduce a puzzle games section on this nav template, calling it simply "Puzzle games" would be my preferred choice: across the English language, it's the more universally known term for these types of games, and far more well-known than "reflexion games". rend (talk) (edits) 08:44, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

Wait @Conradd: I hadn't mentioned this yet since we were discussing only one thing at a time and I didn't think you'd act upon it so soon, but I don't think it'd be wise to just lump the Wrecking Crew games, Hotel Mario and Captain Toad in the Puzzle games section like you did here. While it is true that these games are in Category:Puzzle games... they are ALSO in Category:Platforming games as well. And I would reckon that there are indeed some platforming elements in these games (...well, aside from Wrecking Crew '98, I suppose).
I would propose to list these in a subsection Puzzle-platformers (since yes, that is a subgenre of platformer games that exists). I would've preferably have the Platformers and Puzzle games sections share this subsection, but the two sections are too far apart, so I suppose you'll have to put it in either Platformers or Puzzle games. rend (talk) (edits) 11:10, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

The only game among those three where you can jump is Hotel Mario, I think. I don’t remember being able to jump in either Captain Toad or the Wrecking Crew games.

As I said in the summary when I moved them to the Puzzle category, I would personally consider Hotel Mario more of a puzzle game than a platformer. Sure, jumping is a component of the game, but I wouldn’t personally call it a platformer, since platforming isn’t really the focus. If my memory serves me correctly, you use jumping mainly to dodge enemies, not to overcome platforming challenges. You might call it a puzzle-platformer, but even that feels a little too generous for my taste. To me, Hotel Mario is just a puzzle game. Captain Toad and the Wrecking Crew games, are, in my opinion, full-on puzzle games.

As for the “Puzzle-platformers” subsection, I don't know, creating a new subsection for just 1 game feel excessive --Conradd (talk) 11:36, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

After reviewing some gameplay from Wrecking Crew, I think I understand now what you meant by “some platforming elements.” There are platforms in those games, sure. In Wrecking Crew, in certain challenges you have to drop from platform to platform to destroy cement walls, and I think it’s the same with Captain Toad, but for collecting stars instead.

Does dropping from platform to platform without the ability to jump count as platforming? --Conradd (talk) 11:59, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

The Wikipedia article I just linked seems to regard Captain Toad as a puzzle-platformer as well. While jumping is a key element in platformers, it seems like you don't have to jump from platform to platform in order to be a platformer, so long as you can navigate from platform to platform. The same Wikipedia article also states this in the Concepts section:

“Jumping is central to the genre, though there are exceptions such as Nintendo's Popeye and Data East's BurgerTime, both from 1982.”

—Wikipedia

rend (talk) (edits) 12:03, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to call those games “ladder games,” like Lode Runner or BurgerTime, instead? I’m not saying the wiki is wrong for classifying them that way, but to me, a puzzle-platformer is more like the first Mario vs. Donkey Kong. --Conradd (talk) 12:24, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

"Ladder game" is NOT an actual video game genre (though there is a video game called Ladder, which is also considered a platformer). Also, read the Wikipedia quote again: it considers BurgerTime as a platformer despite there being no jumping. I feel like you're splitting hairs at this point if you're going as far as reconsidering these non-jump platformers as a completely different, made-up genre JUST because there's no jumping involved, even though the genre itself isn't even named after jumping. Though if you really want the wiki to reconsider, maybe make a proposal about it? rend (talk) (edits) 12:37, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

I’m not making stuff up — I’m pretty sure these types of games were once described that way, and I think it’s because of Lode Runner. Maybe it’s a term that’s fallen into disuse, like “Doom-clone” or “Doom-like” for early FPS games? Or maybe it’s just not a well-known or widely used term. Either way, I didn’t come up with the idea to call them that.

As for making a proposal to the wiki, my hands are kind of full right now, lmao. --Conradd (talk) 12:55, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

Well, Wikipedia certainly doesn't have an article on ladder games, and their article on Lode Runner doesn't mention "ladder game" precisely like that, either. Perhaps it's an informal term used to describe platformers where you climb ladders instead of jumping? rend (talk) (edits) 13:04, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

I don’t know dude. Back to the original topic — I agree with you that creating a subsection called “Puzzle-platformer” wouldn’t work, since the Puzzle and Platformer sections are separated by too much space. I think the template, as it’s presented right now, is perfectly fine.The issue that was bothering me has been resolved, so I’m satisfied.

If we’re going by the wiki’s definition of a platformer — which is fine — we could still consider creating a Category for Puzzle-platformers (if one doesn’t already exist) and update the relevant game articles accordingly. --Conradd (talk) 13:23, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

First of all, I never said that a Puzzle-platformer subsection wouldn't work at all. I said that having the Platformer and Puzzle games sections sharing it wouldn't work. Having it put in either of the two would work fine.
Second, I'm still iffy on no longer considering these other games as platformers, so now this whole transplantation is going to endlessly bother me. Sure, you cannot jump, but you still traverse from platform to platform in other ways, and there HAVE been examples of platformers without jumping. You may disagree with that, but a bunch of other people don't.
Regardless, the inclusion of a Puzzle games section should still be reflected on other pages, and templates. Take {{Galleries}} for instance, which still considers the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series a platformer and has no section for puzzle games. The same goes for {{Glitches}}, and {{Multimedia}}, and {{Staff}}, and {{Pre-release and unused content}}, and {{Quotes}}, etc. rend (talk) (edits) 14:05, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

For whatever it's worth, when we rewrote the Platform page, we expressly (re)wrote it with the idea there are games where you have to traverse them without jumping, such as Captain Toad, in mind. The concept of crossing platforms without jumping is already a known factor. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 14:19, October 16, 2025 (EDT)

Who said anything about not considering these games as platformers anymore? If you’re talking about their placement in the template — from Platformers to Puzzle games — I mean, what am I supposed to tell you? The puzzle aspect is more prominent in these games, and the platforming side is de-emphasized, so naturally, they fit better there. They’re puzzle-platformers, not platformer-puzzles.

Honestly, I think adding another row titled “Puzzle-platformer games” would needlessly complicate things in an already crowded template. What we have right now works perfectly fine for the information we’re trying to present.

Look, if you really want something more detailed, accurate, or exhaustive regarding how these games are categorized, you could always create a new Puzzle-platformer games Category alongside the existing Puzzle games and Platformer games Categories in the relevant articles and expand on the details there.

Are we done here? I'm kind tired of this constant back-an-forth. --Conradd (talk) 14:58, October 16, 2025 (EDT)