SUPPORT 13-0 This proposal is aiming to do for navigation templates, what this proposal did for categories. As seen in the draft, this will expand and update MarioWiki:Navigation Templates, and while this will not overhaul the system like the categories proposal, there are a few changes, which I'll briefly go over here. First of all, the policy includes a big chart of colours that should be used for all game- and series-based templates; I also have examples of recoloured templates further down my page. (There was already a proposal about this, but that user didn't create an actual code, so no actual changes could/should have come as a result of its passing.) Non-series-based templates (i.e. stuff like {{Koopa Troopas}} or {{Cheeps}}) can be given unique colours that pertain to their subject matter, rather than using the same colours as their parent series. Secondly, the order in which templates should be placed on articles is outlined in the policy: namely, any random templates (i.e. species-based templates) should come first, followed by all the game/series-based templates, which should go in pure chronological order. So, unlike History sections, which clump series together, different games would simply be arranged according to the year they came out, with no regard for when the rest of the series' installations were released. Instead, the templates' colour-coding can be used to pick out all the members of a given series. Finally, the policy outlines what types of templates can be made. Basically, there are three types of templates, each with slightly different content structure and criteria:
The policy also has a big section on how to set up templates (i.e. what headers to use, how to arrange the lists of links, etc.), but that's a lot of nitty-gritty details, and it's mostly explaining what we already do, so I won't go over that here. If you have any questions about details on the draft or aspects that I could only briefly touch upon in the proposal, definitely post them in the comments, but overall, I hope this and the draft are enough to convince you that this will be a vast improvement to the small, outdated policy we have today. Proposer: Walkazo (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsI know you're trying to be clear, but can you please clarify further/sum it up what the changes are? I can't really comprehend what's going to happen, it seems too complex. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk)
Mario4Ever's summary was bang on. And to clarify, this proposal isn't so much about making a few specific changes, but rather, getting a bigger, better policy approved. A lot of the drafted update to MarioWiki:Navigation Templates is just explaining unwritten conventions that are already more-or-less followed, but from this point onwards, there will be something concrete to refer back to. It's also regulating a few things that are inconsistent now, or at the very least, making recommendations based on the various ways users are already setting up their templates. There are too many details to list, but there are a few notable features that I can further boil down if you guys do want the specific changes:
The template classification and the terminology is also new (under the old system, there's four template types, whereas there's three types in the draft), but that's more of an internal change: it's important from a policy standpoint, but only the above list will really be affecting the wiki at large. A couple of the finer details (which I didn't talk about in the proposal to save space) that will also affect folks are:
And that's all I can recall for now; I can't simplify the proposal any more than that without getting rid of the details, but like I said at the beginning of this post, when it comes to an in-the-nutshell description, M4E's post already has it covered. - Walkazo (talk) Would Template:GPteams be merged to Template:PM2 as a result of this proposal? Reversinator (talk) I have a question about the templates: would it be a good idea if we add pictures to some templates? Or do all of them have to be a solid color? LeftyGreenMario (talk)
Radio Conversation CharactersMERGE TO AN ARTICLE SPECIFICALLY FOR THEM 5-0-0-0 Peppy Hare, Slippy Toad, Krystal, Panther Caroso, Leon Powalski, Colonel Roy Campbell, Otacon, Mei Ling. All of these characters appear in codec conversations, either with Fox, Falco, Wolf, or Solid Snake. Panther, Krystal, and Leon have articles that redirect to the list of trophies, while the rest of them don't. I really can't see why they don't have articles. I mean, they all have the same role, and it's a minor one. Do the Metal Gear characters have articles because they have more dialogue? More dialogue doesn't change their minor role. Do Slippy and Peppy have articles because they appear in Arwings on Corneria to shoot people? We don't have articles on Tingle or Ultimate Chimera, even though they are also stage characters. There are quite a few options we could take: merging all of them to the stages they appear in (Lylat Cruise and Shadow Moses Island), merging all of them into one article specifically for them, making articles for Krystal, Leon, and Panther, or doing nothing. Proposer: GreenDisaster (talk) Merge to an article specifically for them
Merge to Lylat Cruise/Shadow Moses IslandCreate articles for Krystal, Leon, and PantherDo nothingCommentsPeppy and Slippy were both in Meelee and brawl so that's why they have an article much like how Whispy Woods has an article but aside from that I pretty much agree with this proposal Raven Effect (talk)
Creating Separate Level Pages in Super Mario Platformers, and Reworking Use of World PagesFAILED 4-8
Since the creation of this site, users have been told that if a level has a name, such as Awesome, it gets its own article, but if the level is a number, such as World 2-4, then it does not. Currently, World articles are being used to house information about 6 or 7 different levels, in places such as World 3 (New Super Mario Bros. Wii). If the levels had names, they would most certainly be given separate articles, and the idea that the entire position and most of the writing quality of a level article is based on its name is absurd. People say that it is because it can be hard to find a specific level, such as world 2-4, when there are multiple levels under that name, but the current system is no better! Users have to find World Articles instead, and there are even more articles about World 2 than there would be about something like World 2-4. It is much better to have many short to medium length articles that use infoboxes to be easier to understand than to create long, useless world articles, where information about the levels are basically non-existent. People say that inconsistency is a bad thing, and this is another case of it. The fact that some games have their own level articles, while others are instead lumped together in world articles is very confusing to someone not familiar with the site. I remember spending a long time trying to find an article for World 9-6 in NSMBW before I was on the site, because I thought that the description on the world page was just an overview, and that the actual article was elsewhere. Though in theory, it is true that articles will be the same length regardless of if they're in a World Article or a Level Article, this is not true in practice. The truth is that there are several paragraphs in a well-written level article at least, and writing quality suffers severely in the level articles. The reason is that the page is already so long, and seems to have so much information that users do not feel it necessary to add more. However, it becomes a problem when articles turn out to be this short: NamingArticles should be named as "Level name (game it's from)". For example, names should be like World 2-4 (New Super Mario Bros. Wii) or World 1-3 (Super Mario Bros. 2), and redirect for all abbreviations (e.g. World 2-4 (NSMBW)). For levels where the second number is a picture, name them as World 3-Fort or World 6-Airship. Disambiguation pages will also have to be created, but there are so many of these already for world articles that it won't increase the total that much. Components of an ArticleMany users oppose this, claiming that this would just create stubs. However, these articles will certainly be longer than things like the minigame articles, such as this, if written correctly. In each platformer article, there should be:
Components of a Room Section
Using Template:MainThe other main complaint users have as that this would require a lot of extra clicking, and navigation. To counter-act this, I propose that we write brief descriptions of each level in the world article, and then link these to the main article. That way, the world articles could focus more on the world itself, rather than merely being a collection of disjointed information about different levels. This could be used to give a short summary of the level, so that readers can distinguish and select the level they want, without going to over-the-top detail. To make navigation even easier, I propose creating a navigation template for the levels in each game. Similar ones exist for things like "Levels in DKC", and it would make navigation between levels and worlds even easier, as well as streamline it. Though this will require a lot of work, it will make the information many times easier to understand, and improve the quality of writing on all Super Mario Platformer levels greatly. Please consider carefully, and post any questions in the comments. Example articles are included in the draft. Proposer: Bwf8398 (talk) Support
Oppose
Adopt guidelines, but leave Articles MergedComments
Thank you for the links, but please point out one thing in there that isn't covered here. I have studied them carefully and taken measures to counteract such problems. This won't create inconsistency, which was the main point in number 5, because it will be for all platforming game. Proposal 4 merged them because they were stubs that were badly written, which I have explained how to avoid in the proposal. Proposal 3 is similar to what Mario4ever said- it would be combatted by leaving enough info on the page so that users can distinguish between levels, and if a user wanted to read a level more extensively, it's just one click. Proposal 2 was similar to point 3- users said the info would be harder to reach, which is combatted by main article template. And Proposal 1 was incoherent, since the user seemed to want to merge every World 1-1 into one article, which is irrelevant to my proposal. None of the points in those aren't covered in the proposalBwf8398 (talk) @Mario4ever: That's what the use of Template:Main is all about- there will still be info, but much more will be presented in the actual article. They will all still be in one place, and it will be easy to access.
@Super Famicom 64 This would not mean that we would have stub articles if they are written correctly Raven Effect (talk) Sorry if I'm going to go mad but MOST OF THE SMW LEVEL ARTICLES ARE NOT STUBS AND THEY ARE THE SAME LEGTH AS NSMBW. Everything needs an article. New Super Yoshi (talk)
I still have not seen one thing in the links that is not covered in the proposal. @Super Famicom 64, did you not read my entire 'What goes in an article' guideline? I even created a sample article of a level with only one room, which is the shortest level there will be. People are ignoring all of my work in creating guidelines to prevent the problems that they are pointing out. The only opposing argument with merit is that of Mario4ever. I call for the removal of the inaccurate arguments made by Super Famicom 64, Raven Effect, and those who referenced their reasoning. I mean no disrespect to any user in this, but I am merely utilizing rule 4. And even if there is one flaw, which I would be willing to concede to, the articles right now are completely useless! Though my system may not be completely perfect, surely it is much better than the current one! Bwf8398
And as I pointed out in my previous comment, none of the previous proposals you 'pered' are relevant to the current proposal or are fixed under the guidelines. I mean no disrespect to any user whose vote I call for a removal of, I just do not think that there vote is fair. When I said that, I was mostly speaking to the stub person. I apologize for any offense taken. Bwf8398
I'm sorry, but could you give me two reasons from the link that are against the proposal? I could make changes to adhere to something I had overlooked because it has been fewer than three days if you just tell me how. Bwf8398 @Walkazo, I think you misunderstood some things. The description of a setting will be one line because that is a component of what goes in the introduction. It will be only one line. And in my opinion, naming them after numbers is better than what they do for the SMG and SMG 2 planets, where they're all subjectively named. How is this any different than those? They would not be padding sections, they would be a better organization method than a long clump of text, which most users generally avoid. I only included a trivia section so that people wouldn't put the wrong thing in there, such as where it is in the world. If you're against splitting, fine, but we desperately need new guidelines, so vote for the third section. Bwf8398 Per requests, I have included a section on Navigation Templates. I would be perfectly willing to make them. Bwf8398 @ Walkazo - Rainbow Road all share a name, and are not levels, they are courses. World 1-1 doesn't share a name with World 1-2 or World 1-Castle. Arceus79 (talk) Important: If you agree with the guidelines, but want to keep the articles merged in world articles, vote for the third category. Bwf8398
@ Hippihippi and Super Famicom 64 - Even named levels are stubs. Look at Piranha Grove and Lots O'Fish from Yoshi's Story. These are both stubs, and yet have names. Arceus79 (talk)
Proposals Must Pass By A Majority RuleFAILED 3-6 I would like to propose that in all proposals, an option is considered to win only if it obtains a majority of the votes (as well as having to adhere to Proposals Rule #9: If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.). Should this proposal pass, it will not effect any two-option proposals whatsoever. However, it will greatly effect proposals with three or more options. What we currently observe is that in order for a decision to be reached, an option must have at least a plurality of the votes. For example, let us consider a proposal with options Option One, Option Two, and Option Three. It could have a tally of three people supporting Option One, two people supporting Option Two, and five people supporting Option Three (for a total of ten people voting, which allows us to not consider Proposals Rule #9). Under our current system, Option Three is accepted as the outcome because it has the most votes of support (a plurality); however, it does not have more than half of the amount of voters supporting it (a majority). Under my proposed system, the example proposal will not conclude at that point. What I am proposing, in an instance like this, is that the option with the least amount of votes is eliminated (with the option and votes recorded not being erased, but being struck out My aim is for this change to allow for the most preferred choice to be enacted, rather than a choice that may not be preferred by a majority of the voting individuals. Proposer: Super Mario Bros. (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsI suppose it's a way to guard against votes being diluted by similar choices, and to give voters a chance to vote for the lesser of two evils should their first choice get struck out? In sounds good on the surface, but it's a pretty complicated procedure for an issue that's come up all of three times (assuming it hasn't happened in any TPPs too), all of which were 4+ years ago and involved majorities, just not clear majorities (the votes were 7/12, 7-4-1; 9/16, 9-5-2; and 12/22, 12-6-4)). Besides, people can always vote strategically without us forcing them to recast their votes. On the other hand, some folks may not want to have to vote for their second choice at all, and not appreciate their original vote being slashed out. Plus, as I said in my vote, choosing the lesser of two evils isn't even a good way to approach these problems: forcing the Option Two people to change their vote to Option Three wouldn't mean that the majority want Option Three, just that the majority don't want Option One, and that's a rather backwards way of deciding something. It'd be better if the proposal was simply extended with all the options still on the table, giving more people a chance to come in and vote for what they really want - or giving the proposer more time to figure out a compromise and ask for the proposal to be deleted so that they can make a new suggestion that really would reflect what the majority wants. In other words, simply state that all proposals need a majority of the voters to support any one option before a decision is made, regardless of whether the choice is pass-fail, or something more complicated. Rule 9 already says this for 10+ two-option votes, but it could easily be modified to say that you need 3 more than 50% of all votes cast, (and also simply state that two-option votes therefore need a 3-vote lead, since that'll come up most and being straightforward as much as possible is a good idea). The overall gist could even be explained in the top box, rather than the rules - i.e. with a bullet point, instead of somewhat-vaguely saying we need a "consensus" and linking to a dense Wikipedia policy page. - Walkazo (talk) Remove Stagnant FA NominationsPASSED 5-0 It has come to my attention recently that a rule that was added a long time ago (A nomination may fail if it has been there for 4 months and the opposers to supporters ratio is 5:1.) that was supposed to delete stagnant FA nominations is ineffective. I remember this rule being created in response to the extremely old Luigi nomination that had a ton of opposes. However, the ratio of 5:1 opposers to supporters is very unrealistic because fan votes supporting the nomination tends to add up very quickly. For instance, in the Koopa Troopa nomination page, opposers like me had mentioned a plethora of problems that needed to be fixed. They were apparently never fixed. This nomination is a very stagnant FA nomination (it was nominated in May 2, 2011), which means that it is going nowhere. However, the fan votes keep bumping the nomination, which means that this nomination will stay forever despite the valid reasons the opposers gave. I'm not proposing to discourage fan voting, by the way. However, I think it's a bad thing to leave FA nominations in queue for so long. There is just... nothing happening in those pages except for more support/oppose votes. While I'm aware that some long-lasting FA nominations became successful later on (like Bowser's Inside Story), we can always monitor how active the nomination was. While the Bowser's Inside Story one was full of people trying to improve the article, the Koopa Troopa one isn't going anywhere. Also, nominations like the Bowser article is also long-lasting, but I've seen improvement on the Bowser article. I'm proposing that we remove stagnant FA nominations just clear up space for newer nominations; also, removing old, stale FA nominations indicates us that this FA isn't going anywhere, so we'll just set it aside. Then, when the article is improved, the newer FA nomination will be easier to manage. This rule I'm proposing also has some degree of flexibility, so trustworthy people like administrators have to judge how active the FA nomination is before deleting it. However, the basic rule is that if an FA is going on for a very long time with no progress or activity, it should fail. Again, the standards for a "long time" isn't quite defined, but by seeing nominations like the Koopa Troopa one, administrators should know if they think the FA will go anywhere. So, simply, if there are nominations like the Koopa Troopa one, delete it. If others such as King Boo and Bowser are making progress, then don't delete it. I cannot really summarize this in words, but you should know what I mean. Proposer: LeftyGreenMario (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsActually there is another way one can fail and that's to be inactive for 30 days Once this limit is reached, the only way to newly nominate a different article is for one of the active ones to fail (be inactive for 30 days) Raven Effect (talk)
Change FA NominationsDON'T CHANGE 2-11 A recent proposal by LeftyGreenMario (talk) addressed the problem of stagnant Featured Article nominations. I supported that proposal (although I didn't vote), and this proposal is related to that. I'd like nominations to act more like proposals. This is what that would work like: If an FA nomination has more support votes than opposes six weeks after nomination, it is sent to the administrators, who evaluate it, a process which I think would take about a week. If they decide the article is worthy to be a featured article, they feature it. The same process would also be used for unfeaturing nominations. Proposer: Ultraluigi (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsAlthough I like the idea of administrators having to see the merits of an article about to be featured so we know that they are aware of the process (I can't tell if they are aware if they don't vote), I don't like how administrators seem to get more authority in determining the status of an article. Hmm, I'm mixed on this. LeftyGreenMario (talk)
Make articles for all the sports in the Mario seriesOPPOSE 1-6 The Mario series has a huge variety of sports games, but what I don't understand is why we don't have articles for all the various sports that feature in mario games aside from the events in the Mario & Sonic series. These sports are the entire plotline of some games so I think they warrant articles. Some users may think that sports games don't warrant articles and fall under Generic subjects but the sports meet several of the exceptions to this rule. The sports games have significant differences to their Real World subjects (such as power-ups etc.) and are significant to the game's gameplay and storyline. (I know one of those says it doesn't apply to sports games but I think that should be removed. Proposer: Commander Code-8 (talk) Support
Oppose
Comments@MarioSmasher "ugh" is not a valid reason and is subject to being striked out. Zero777 (talk)
The Redirects to Trophy and its subpagesNO QUORUM 3-0 While searching for redirects, I found one that linked to Trophy. It was a redirect for one of the Super Smash Bros. trophies. I checked to see how many of these redirects currently existed. I ended up finding twenty of these redirects for Trophy, one redirect for Trophy Descriptions (Super Smash Bros. Melee), and four redirects for Trophy Descriptions (Super Smash Bros. Brawl). I'll create a full list in the comments section. In my opinion, these redirects are pretty much unnecessary. I mean, anyone that's looking for information on these trophies will get, word for word, the same information they could of gotten in the games themselves. Also, as of now, it's inconcistent. There are 293 trophies for Super Smash Bros. Melee and 544 trophies for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, while there are currently only 25 redirects. Even if we take away the trophies that we already have articles on, there's still quite a few more creatable redirects, and some redirects, like the Pokémon trophies, could potentially redirect to somewhere else. I'll make three options: delete the current redirects, create new redirects for the other trophies, or do nothing. Proposer: GreenDisaster (talk) Delete Redirects
Create RedirectsDo NothingCommentsAnd here is the list of redirects that this proposal could affect:
* These three are supposed to be merged into a bigger article, along with Colonel Roy Campbell, Mei Ling, and Otacon, but I didn't know how to make this article. The Redirects to Trophy and its subpagesDELETE REDIRECTS 8-0 While searching for redirects, I found one that linked to Trophy. It was a redirect for one of the Super Smash Bros. trophies. I checked to see how many of these redirects currently existed. I ended up finding twenty of these redirects for Trophy, one redirect for Trophy Descriptions (Super Smash Bros. Melee), four redirects for Trophy Descriptions (Super Smash Bros. Brawl), and one redirect for Sticker. I'll create a full list in the comments section. In my opinion, these redirects are pretty much unnecessary. I mean, anyone that's looking for information on these trophies will get, word for word, the same information they could of gotten in the games themselves. Also, as of now, it's inconcistent. There are 293 trophies for Super Smash Bros. Melee, 544 trophies for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and 700 stickers, while there are currently only 26 redirects. Even if we take away the trophies/stickers that we already have articles on, there's still quite a few more creatable redirects, and some redirects, like the Pokémon trophies, could potentially redirect to somewhere else. I'll make three options: delete the current redirects, create new redirects for the other trophies, or do nothing. Proposer: GreenDisaster (talk) Delete Redirects
Create RedirectsDo NothingCommentsAnd here is the list of redirects that this proposal could affect:
* These three are supposed to be merged into a bigger article, along with Colonel Roy Campbell, Mei Ling, and Otacon, but I didn't know how to make this article. How come this has been extended and the votes removed? Is that what happens when not that many people vote? Commander Code-8 (talk)
Delete most of the orb pagesDO NOT DELETE PAGES 2-10 This proposal has been edited and reset due to unknown information. It has come to my attention that there are alot of tiny orb pages all over the site. I propose that we delete this orb pages since all the information about them on their respective Mario Party games is repeated in their individual wiki pages. Proposer: Coooool123 (talk) Support to delete
Opposers to delete
CommentsCan you be clearer on what exactly you're talking about. I have no idea what these orbs are or what game they're from. Commander Code-8 (talk)
I'M A GIRL. And I want to get ride of most of the orb pages since they are all explained on their respective mario party wiki pages and it's word for word in the wiki.
@GreenDisaster, the list you refer to is already on every game's main page. There would be no additional work in creating lists.
The Identifiers of ArticlesCHANGE THE IDENTIFIERS TO MATCH THE GAME 10-0 Whenever a name is shared by two subjects (like Mario Tennis), it is given an identifier in its title (like Mario Tennis (Nintendo 64) and Mario Tennis (Game Boy Color)) to distinguish itself from the other articles. Most of these identifiers uses the game that the subject appeared in to identify it. However, there are certain identifiers that use a certain quality of the subject, or simply what the subject actually is. I understand that certain ones can't be limited to a single game (like Fly (move)) or share a name with someone in the same game (like Chap (blue) and Chap (green)), but what's the excuse for something like Spiny (hedgehog)? How come Spiny isn't called Spiny (Mario Kart 64)? Spiny (Mario Kart) is already a redirect, though it's missing the "64" bit. There's also ones like The Legend of Zelda (microgame). How come the microgame from WarioWare, Inc.: Minigame Mania gets "microgame" as its identifier and not "WarioWare, Inc.: Minigame Mania", especially when considering there are other microgames with that name, like The Legend of Zelda (WarioWare: Touched!) and The Legend of Zelda (WarioWare: Twisted!)? It implies that the Minigame Mania one is the only microgame with that title. This example also lets me go to my other gripe: How come The Legend of Zelda, a 13 episode, 3 month-long series that barely qualifies for an article, doesn't get an identifier? Shouldn't The Legend of Zelda be a disambiguation page while the cartoon is named "The Legend of Zelda (DiC Entertainment)" or "The Legend of Zelda (cartoon)" or something similar? I know that some of these need to be done in a case-by-case basis, but the vast majority of these are quite simple: add the game that it appeared in as its identifier, or leave it as it is. Proposer: GreenDisaster (talk) Change the identifiers of articles to match the games they appear in
Do nothingCommentsIf this proposal passes, is there anyone that would like to help me with moving the articles? GreenDisaster (talk)
I wonder, why do we have the Legend of Zelda cartoon on our wiki? Zero777 (talk)
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