User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page

From the Super Mario Wiki

This is my thoughts page, where I'll post cases which interest me about Super Mario series and see what kind of conclusions I'll arrive at.

If you have comments or questions, write them here.

Cases in work: 1

Cases finished: 3

Case 1: Captain Toad is not Toad Brigade Captain

Claim: Captain Toad from Super Mario 3D World can't be Toad Brigade Captain from Super Mario Galaxy games.

Background: According to the settled talk page proposal, official sources dictate the playable Blue Toad in Super Mario 3D World to be the singular character known as Toad. Likewise, there exist a trading card that claims The Toad to appear in Super Mario Galaxy as the Toad Brigade Captain. Because of this, assuming Captain Toad to be Toad Brigade Captain is impossible, because he is in turn officially called "Captain Toad" in official sources.

Counterclaim: Captain Toad is Toad Brigade Captain. If this is true, there are two alternatives:

a) Toad Brigade Captain can't be The Toad, because he is already labeled as the Super Mario 3D World Toad.
b) Captain Toad is The Toad, who in turn can't be the Super Mario 3D World Toad, because he would already be Captain Toad.

Current evidence supports the claim.

Verdict 1: Captain Toad is not Toad Brigade Captain. Conclusion based on the info found on this wiki. Next step is to search official sources by own hand.

Evidence 1: Iwata Asks: Super Mario 3D World, section 4

This evidence was also used in the talk page proposal linked above by the proposer YoshiKong.

Evidence reads as:

:Koizumi: Talking about cuteness reminded me of how Toad used to look pretty plain, but because he gets cat ears this time his looks cuter overall. That and with how he can quickly dash around, I think he turned into an incredibly appealing character.

:Iwata: Yeah. It may be rude to his fans to say it like this, but Toad is a surprisingly popular character.

:Koizumi: Right. There's even gameplay this time that features Toad.

:Hayashida: Taking a cue from Mario Galaxy, there are games called "Captain Toad's Adventure," in which Captain Toad appears with his memorable little tune that goes "ta-dada-da-, ta-dada-da-".

Super Mario Wiki intepretation: YoshiKong pointed in his proposal that Captain Toad's character was based on Toad Brigade Captain, using part of Hayashida's line, "Taking a cue from Mario Galaxy", as the proof. This is currently reflected on many articles where Captain Toad is the subject.
Intepretation supports the claim.
Personal intepretation: The first two lines are practically meaningless. Hayashida says that when Captain Toad appears, he does so with his theme song.
Connecting the dots: The theme in question is played in Super Mario Galaxy games near Toad Brigade Captain's presence. The interview mentions the particular song as Captain Toad's song. Since Toad Brigade Captain's theme is now Captain Toad's theme, Toad Brigade Captain can be assumed to be Captain Toad.
Intepretation supports the counterclaim.

Conflict: The two intepretations claim the opposite. Next step is to analyze the context of Hayashida's line personally.

Personal analysis: It's clearly mentioned that the song talked about is Captain Toad's theme. However, according to YoshiKong, the first part of Hayashida's line means Captain Toad is essentially an expy of Toad Brigade Captain. This doesn't match with the rest of the sentence. Therefore, a plausible alternative is that being inspired by Super Mario Galaxy, there are now levels called "Captain Toad's Adventure", where Captain Toad's theme song will play.

Analysis supports the personal intepretation as well as the counterclaim.

Conclusion: Evidence 1 supports the counterclaim.

Observation: Koizumi's second line makes a reference to "gameplay that features Toad". This preceeds Hayashima's line about Captain Toad's own levels. However, the first two lines talk about the Super Mario 3D World Toad.

Conclusion: Both the Super Mario 3D World Toad and Captain Toad can be generally referred to as Toad.
Counterargument: The generic use of Toad may just refer to Captain Toad as part of his species, while Super Mario 3D World Toad is still The Toad.
Personal argument: There is no truly defined The Toad in the context of these lines. This might mean there are sources which this wiki uses to identify generic Toads as The Toad because they are simply called Toad in official profiles. Alternatively, there might also be sources where The Toad's name is applied to an entirely different Toad. Next step is to search for evidence to support this argument.

Evidence 2: The story of New Super Mario Bros. U on official American site

Evidence reads as: It was just another lovely dinner at the castle with Mario™, Luigi™, Toad™, and Princess Peach™...

Observation: Toad is referenced in the quote, with the notation of the trademark.
Questioning the evidence: In the intro of New Super Mario Bros. U, The Toad himself isn't seen. The quote likely refers to the two playable Toads, also known as Blue Toad and Yellow Toad. However, only one Toad is referenced. Therefore, these characters can be generally called Toad.
Connecting the dots: YoshiKong also linked to the [official American Super Mario 3D World site] in his proposal. This site too refers to the playable Toad just as Toad. However, this still doesn't mean this Toad in question is The Toad, because the use of the name Toad means that even with specific titles, these Toads can be completely interchangable with each other.

Evidence 2 supports the personal argument.

Verdict 2: Captain Toad is Toad Brigade Captain. This overwrites verdict 1. Conclusion based on official sources. Next step is to use above analysis to determine whether this means Captain Toad is also The Toad.

Dilemma: We now have fit proof that Captain Toad and Toad Brigade Captain are the same person, but that still leaves unanswered if this makes them separate or the same character as The Toad.

Alternative A: If these two are different characters, Super Mario Wiki can still assume the Super Mario 3D World Toad to be The Toad based on not being called anything else.
Alternative B: If these two are the same character, then Captain Toad's page becomes obsolete and will ideally be merged with The Toad's page. This in turn will lead to The Toad's section of Super Mario 3D World being moved to another page.

Analysis: There aren't many examples where a red-spotted Toad would not be the main playable Toad, and so getting a clear picture of this can be difficult. The two pieces of evidence linked here give the impression that there is no definitive ground for the appearance of The Toad, who is almost always assumed to appear in the games by the default name Toad. On the other hand, a part of Iwata Asks calls Captain Toad also Toad. In addition to this, the Super Mario Galaxy trading card states The Toad to be Toad Brigade Captain, so this makes him the same as Captain Toad.

Observation: The Toad is known to appear as his own invidual character in Super Mario 3D Land, differiated by the other red-spotted Toads by his blue vest. In addition, there appears a team of five Toads similar to the Toad Brigade seen in the playable intro stage, but it's not confirmed if they are the Toad Brigade.
Conflict: This wiki has a policy which states everything officially confirmed is canon, which means both the trading card description and Toad's appearance in Super Mario 3D Land are correct. It's still unconfirmed if the Toad Brigade appears in the said game as well.

Current evidence supports alternative B.

Verdict 3: Captain Toad is The Toad.

Clarification: So far, the only definite evidence are the trading card and the mention of Captain Toad's tune, which is the same as the Toad Brigade Captain's. Since those two are the same character by this logic, the trading card further expand The Toad's character by claiming him to be Toad Brigade Captain. Thus, Toad Brigade Captain, who is said to be The Toad, is also Captain Toad.

Conflict: Reached verdict doesn't match with this wiki's decision of calling the Super Mario 3D World Toad The Toad. Next step is to find a logical conclusion for this.

Connecting the dots: I stated earlier that based on the material found here, using the name Toad on a Toad means it is The Toad, because he has no other names to be called with. However, it's also known that Toad may also be general way of adressing other Toad characters without necessarily being The Toad. The text found on official New Super Mario Bros. U site supports this; even though it's likely a mistake, it still calls either Blue Toad or Yellow Toad just Toad. The Super Mario 3D World Toad himself has the appearance of a Blue Toad, and is called Toad. On the other hand, he is also the only playable Toad not to be called by any other name.

Personal argument: As The Toad is believed to be Toad Brigade Captain, he undergoes a name change from just Toad to Toad Brigade Captain. In fact, the rest of the Toad Brigade only calls him captain. In the case of the Super Mario 3D World Toad, he has no other names he is called with in the game. However, Blue Toad is potentially called only Toad, and in addition to this, his artwork from New Super Mario Bros. games is reused in the Super Mario 3D World e-manual. Because of this, it would be logical to assume the the Super Mario 3D World Toad is the characteric Blue Toad.

Verdict 4: The Super Mario 3D World Toad is the Blue Toad.

Final verdict: The characteric Toad, Toad Brigade Captain, and Captain Toad are all the one and same Toad. Because of this, The Toad can't be The Super Mario 3D World Toad, who is rather the characteric Blue Toad.

Possible actions: Propose the merging of Captain Toad with Toad (character) and moving of Super Mario 3D World section to Blue Toad (character).

Current situation: Proposal posted and passed. The majority decided it would be best to move Toad Brigade Captain's info to Captain Toad (Alternative A) after new evidence was found. No need for further actions.

Case 2: The World names of Super Mario Bros. 3

Claim: The generic names of the worlds ("Grass Land", "Desert Land", "Water Land" etc.) of Super Mario Bros. 3 are American localization.

Background: In the second NES release of Super Mario Bros. 3, its worlds were given generic names by adding Land to its corresponding element or feature. These changes include Desert Hill to Desert Land, Sea Side to Water Land and The Sky to Sky Land. The only expection to this Grass Land, which keeps its name in every English version of the game. No reason for this localization change has been found. The names are corrected in English SNES and GBA rereleases, with some modifications to the names in the latter.

Counterclaim: The generic names came from Japanese sources.

Current evidence supports the claim.

Verdict 1: The generic names are the result of localization. Conclusion based on current evidence. Next step is to search for Japanese sources for new evidence by own hand.

Evidence 1: Japanese Wikipedia page for Super Mario Bros. 3, "Worlds" section

This section lists all the worlds in the game, including Warp Zone, in both Japanese characters and western alphabets. The English names match with the current names. However, the Japanese names have a pattern. They all end with words 「の国」 (no kuni), which translates into "country of". Expection to this is Warp Zone, which is written in katakana as 「ワープゾーン」 (waapu zoon).
Translation comparation: These are the official Japanese names, rough translations of them and the official English names:
草原の国 (Sōgen no kuni): Grassland Country (Grass Land)
砂漠の国 (Sabaku no kuni): Desert Country (Desert Hill)
海の国 (Umi no kuni): Sea Country (Sea Side)
巨大の国 (Kyodai no kuni): Huge Country (Big Island)
空の国 (Sora no kuni): Sky Country (The Sky)
氷の国 (Kōri no kuni): Ice Country (Iced Land)
土管の国 (Dokan no kuni): Pipe Country (Pipe Maze)
暗黒の国 (Ankoku no kuni): Dark Country (Bowser's Castle)
Observation: Based on the translations, the Japanese names follow a similar pattern of naming as the second NES version of Super Mario Bros. 3.

Evidence 1 supports the counterclaim.

Evidence 2: Japanese Super Mario Bros. 3 manual

This evidence was earlier linked to this site by LinkTheLefty.

The pages 30-34 have the same names for the worlds as the names listed above. The manual also includes furigana (kanas for the correct spelling of kanji), which may lead to corrections of the romanized world names listed above.

Evidence 2 supports the counterclaim.

Verdict 2: Generic names are also present in the Japanese version. This overwrites verdict 1. Conclusion based on current evidence.

Questioning the evidence: This is based on the Famicom and NES versions alone. It's not known if this is also the case in the remakes. Next step is to search for Japanese sources that show if this is true or not.

Evidence 3: Page of the official Japanese site for Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3 that covers the worlds of the game

This site lists the seven worlds of Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3. As it's seen on the first page alone, the same names are used once again, meaning that even back then, the generic names are official names.

Evidence 3 supports the counterclaim.

Verdict 3: The generic names are used more recently than thought.

Connecting the dots: It is important to note that as seen in evidence 1, the corrected world names are always written in English, while generic world names are in Japanese. This means that both versions of the world names are acceptable, the corrected ones as official English names and generic ones as valid translations. The generic names are mostly found in supplementary material.

Final verdict: The generic world names of Super Mario Bros. 3 are not a localization, but a more direct translation of the Japanese names which were also used in later Japanese materials. By this logic, the generic names are as valid as the corrected ones seen in remakes.

Possible actions: Find an appropiate way to put this information on wanted page(s).

Current situation: Updated Super Mario Bros. 3 trivia with current info. Surprisingly, the Japanese world names had been added to each of the world articles quite early before this case was finished. I had no knowledge of this until this latest update. The translations may be slightly edited by me by changing the word land to country.

Case 3: The "Tail" Dragons' genders in Japan

Query: What are the actual genders of Hooktail, Gloomtail and Bonetail in the Japanese version of Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door?

Background: In the English version of the game the three dragons appear in, Hooktail is revealed to be female in Chapter 8 by Gloomtail, who is identified as a male along with Bonetail. It can be supposed same goes for the Japanese version as well, expect that all three dragons' Japanese names end in 「ババ」 (baba), which comes from 「婆」, meaning old woman. This gives their genders, especially Gloomtail and Bonetail's, certain ambiquosity: does this make them all females?

First step is to check Super Mario Wiki for possible hints.

Observations: Though no direct Japanese reference was found here, some of the foreign names might be useful hints. German and Italian are especially helpful for using portmanteaus which include first names in the dragons names in their respective language.

Hooktail: Both German and Italian names (Lohgard and Crimilde, respectively) give hints of Hooktail being female.
Gloomtail: The German name (Lohbert) gives a hint of Gloomtail being male.
Bonetail: The Italian name (Ossandra) gives a hint of Bonetail being female. According to the article, the German version also refers to her as a female.

Connecting the dots: It seems that only Bonetail's gender was changed in the English version. Even though there are hints of it being female in foreign countries, it's still not clear if this also the case in Japan. Next step is to search for Japanese sources for evidence by own hand.

Evidence 1: A video of Japanese Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door walkthrough showing the fight with Gloomtail

Observations: At around 12:55, where Gloomtail mentions his sister in English version, in Japanese he says 「オレさまの かわいい かわいい 妹」 (lit. "my cute cute little sister"). At 13:23, when Goombella tattles Gloomtail, the Japanese text reads 「ゴンババの おにいさん」 (lit. "Gonbaba's (Hooktail's) big brother).

Conclusion 1: Evidence 1 supports Hooktail and Gloomtail's genders in Japan being retained in English versions.

Evidence 2: A video of another Japanese Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door walkthrough showing the fight with Bonetail

Observations: At around 3:24, when Goombella tattles Bonetail the Japanese text reads 「ゴンババの 一番上の お姉さん」 (lit. "Hooktai's eldest sister").
This means that Bonetail's gender in English versions is actually a localization or a translation error. The Italian and German versions keep Bonetail's gender in Japan more or less intact.

Verdict: In Japan, Hooktail and Bonetail are females, while Gloomtail is male. Only Bonetail's gender was changed in the English version.

Possible actions: Apply needed edits to their respective pages.

Current situation: Bonetail's page updated with the mention of him being female in the Japanese version.

Case 4: Individuality analysis: Kamek (Revisted and updated)

Query: Is Kamek really his own unique character from Magikoopas?

Background: Among the western Super Mario fans, it is common to assume that among certain species is a singular specific character who gets the majority of appearances in the series. Three primary examples of this are Toad, Yoshi and Kamek. However, not-so-recently I have started to question this view, the primary reason being the belief that in Japan such characters are treated nearly equally and without distinction, excluding special cases such as Captain Toad. The goal of this case is to take Kamek and find out if he truly is a character of his own from identical Magikoopas. He was chosen for this case because in Japan, he and his species are all "Kameks", which adds to the confusion of his individuality and seems thus the easiest character to analyze.
UPDATE: After a few years, I have decided to look deeper into the case to find anything I may have missed. For the sake of clarity, these additional notes are marked as green. This colored text will not be applied to changes in wording or fixed typos.

Notes:

  • The use of names Kamek and Magikoopa will be split into sections: two list games where only either has appeared, and the third lists the games where both are said to appear. The fourth section is meant for games with speculated alter-egos for Kamek. If no specific name is given, it will be automatically assumed to be Magikoopa. If multiple Magikoopas are said to appear, it will be noted.
  • The primary priority of sources is the following: Nintendo > Other developers > Other parties; Japanese > NTSC/PAL English => Other languages; In-game data > Official websites > Game (Prima) guides > Merchandise.
  • All appearances will be examined as critically as possible. This means looking into anything from the games and supplementary materials and comparing them, looking into the context and trying to connect the dots based on that.
  • Certain appearances may be proven to be an opposite of what is common knowledge.
  • Upcoming games where Kamek or Magikoopas are confirmed to appear will be excluded unless released when this case is still unfinished. This case will cover all the games up to Puzzle & Dragons: Super Mario Bros. Edition.
  • If you are reading this and want to give me your opinion on this case, be it your observations or corrections to my logic, post it in the discussion page here. I actually encourage this, because I won't have all the info available to me.

Magikoopa's appearances

Super Mario World: Magikoopas (named in the credits) debut in this game as enemies. Only one is seen at the time.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii: A Magikoopa appears as an antagonist and a boss. He is called "Magikoopa" in the Prima guide and a trading card.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Super Mario Galaxy 2: Magikoopas appear as enemies. No in-game name is seen. It's possible that it is listed in a game guide or other material.

  • This will be assumed to be Magikoopa's appearance until trustable sources are found.

Super Mario 3D Land: Magikoopas appear as enemies. No in-game name is seen. It's possible that it is listed in a game guide or other material.

  • This will be assumed to be Magikoopa's appearance until trustable sources are found.

New Super Mario Bros. U: A Magikoopa appears as an antagonist and a boss. He is called "Magikoopa" in the Prima guide.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker: Magikoopas appear as enemies. One of the levels is called "No Sleep at Magikoopa Keep".

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Kart: Super Circuit: A Magikoopa makes an appearance in Bowser Castle 3 (GBA). No in-game name is seen. It's possible that it is listed in a game guide or other material.

  • This will be assumed to be Magikoopa's appearance until trustable sources are found.

Yoshi's Safari: A Magikoopa appears as a enemy. No in-game name is seen. It's possible that it is listed in a game guide or other material.

  • This will be assumed to be Magikoopa's appearance until trustable sources are found.

Yoshi Touch & Go: A Magikoopa appears as the main antagonist. No in-game name is seen. It's possible that it is listed in a game guide or other material.

  • This will be assumed to be Magikoopa's appearance until trustable sources are found.

Paper Mario: Magikoopas (called so in-game) appear as enemies. In addition to the usual blue-robed variant, there are also green, red, yellow, grey and white variants. A Magikoopa character called Kammy Koopa (「カメックババ」 "Kamekkubaba", rough translation "Magikoopa hag") appears as Bowser's right hand.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door: Magikoopas (called so in-game) appear as enemies. The red, green and white varieties as well as Kammy Koopa appear as well.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Super Paper Mario: Magikoopas (called so in-game) appear as enemies. One Magikoopa is seen next to Bowser in the beginning of the game, but it's not elaborated if he is Kamek.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Power Tennis: Magikoopas appear as spectators. No in-game name is seen. It's possible that it is listed in a game guide or other material.

  • This will be assumed to be Magikoopa's appearance until trustable sources are found.

Mario Super Sluggers: Magikoopas (called so in-game) appear as team members. There are also red, green and yellow variants.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (Nintendo 3DS): Magikoopa (called so in-game) appears as an rival in the story mode.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games: Magikoopa (called so in-game) appears as an opponent in the Legends Showdown mode. However, this wiki claims him to be Kamek.

  • Further research on this is required.

Kamek's appearances

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island: Kamek (called so in-game) appears as the main antagonist.

Query: Why is the character in question called Kamek?
Claim: The translation team of the game took creative liberties while translating the enemy names from Japanese to English.
Checking: Here are some enemies from the game, with their Japanese names and direct translations included. These are taken from The Mushroom Kingdom website, which uses the Japanese game guide as a source.
Analysis: These examples show that the English translation team of Yoshi's Island indeed took some creative liberties. Some enemies from the game have the same Japanese name as their "main counterpart" (Flopsy Fish), some have names that have nothing to do with their species (Cactus Jack and Hootie the Blue Fish) and some just don't make sense (Mace Penguin).
Argument: Regarding the analysis above, this could also mean that "Kamek" as the name was a mere creative liberty or mistranslation. Therefore, Kamek is not an individual he is seen as, but a generic Magikoopa in Yoshi's Island.

Observation: Kamek apparently has a nickname "Fang", as seen here.

Argument: Such nickname wouldn't make sense in presense of enemies called Fang.
  • Considering everything presented so far, while this counts as an appearance for Kamek, it is very likely that due to the questionable translation of certain enemy names, making Kamek his own individual seems erroneus. This is sufficient enough to not warrant further research unless the sources or this claim are contested to be wrong.

Yoshi's Island DS: Kamek (called so in-game) appears as a major antagonist. He is actually Kamek who travelled back in time with Bowser, and can be seen stealing Baby Bowser from Kamek from Yoshi's Island.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Kart: Double Dash!!: The course Baby Park features a sign with animated Magikoopa that reads "Kamek's Magic Show".

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Kart DS: Baby Park returns as a retro track. "Kamek's Magic Show" sign is also featured here.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Golf: World Tour: Kamek (called so in-game) appears as a unlockable playable character.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Party 2: Kamek is said to appear on Horror Land board, where offers the Darkness Lamp for 10 coins.

  • Until I see it directly, this will not be sufficient enough.

Mario Party 5: Kamek appears summoned via a Kamek Orb (also known as Kamek Capsule in this game).

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Party 6: Kamek appears summoned via a Kamek Capsule.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Party Advance: Kamek (called so in-game) appears in person as a "Game Mage".

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Party 7: Kamek appears summoned via a Kamek Orb.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Party 8: Kamek (called so in the game's character sound selection) makes appearances in Shy Guy's Perplex Express and Bowser's Warped Orbit. However, this wiki claims that Kamek is misnamed "Magikoopa" in this game.

  • Further research on this is required.

Mario Party DS: Kamek (called so in-game) appears as the boss of his board, Kamek's Library.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Party: Island Tour: Kamek (called so in-game) appears as an NPC in Kamek's Carpet Ride board.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time: Kamek (called so in-game) appears as a boss.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Paper Mario: Sticker Star: Kamek (called so in-game) appears as a boss and a major antagonist.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Super Smash Bros. Brawl: There are two stickers called "Kamek" in the game.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS: Kamek (called so in-game) has an trophy of himself. He also appears as an enemy in Smash Run mode.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Super Smash Bros. for Wii U: Kamek (called so in-game) has an trophy of himself. He also appears in Smash Tour mode and in Mushroom Kingdom U stage.

Observation: Kamek's trophy description says that he appeared in Super Mario World, even though there is only a character called "Magikoopa".
Argument: The developers didn't bother to make two two distinct from each other. They are also Japanese, where both Magikoopa and Kamek have the name "Kamek". Therefore, this supports the view that Kamek is not his own character from Magikoopas.
  • This is sufficient enough info.

Both appear

Super Mario Galaxy: Magikoopas appear as enemies. A Prima guide and a trading card description call one Kamek. There's also a Magikoopa boss called Kamella.

Observation: The Kamek trading card is in "enemy" category. However, it should be noted that unlike enemies such as Electrogoomba, Topman and Pokey, the Kamek trading card describes its role in the prologue and always in singular, not how it behaves and how to defeat as an enemy.
Query: How could this be?
Speculation: I can't think of a solid reason here. My guess is that the writers of the trading cards gave priority to describing Kamek's prologue appearance.
  • This is sufficient enough info.

Super Mario 3D World: Magikoopas appear as enemies. They are called "Magikoopas" in the American version and "Kameks" in the PAL versions.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Yoshi's New Island: Kamek (called so in-game) appears as the main antagonist. There's also another Magikoopa who appears during the final battle with Bowser. He is presumed to be Kamek, but no in-game name is given. It's possible that it is listed in a game guide or other material.

  • Further research on this second "Kamek" is required.

Mario Party 9: A Magikoopa appears as an playable character. He is called "Magikoopa" in the American version and "Kamek" in the PAL versions.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario Superstar Baseball: Magikoopas (called so in-game) appear as team members. There are also red, green and yellow variants. Also, Magikoopa's bio mentions Kamek as their best.

Query: Does the Japanese version say this as well?
Checking: Found this video showing the Japanese bios from the game. Kamek's bio states, roughly translated, that his plans were foiled by Yoshi and Baby Mario, referencing the events of Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island.
Analysis: The English version of the bio clearly separates Kamek from Yoshi's Island from the rest of the Magikoopas. The Japanese version states what Kamek did in that game. However, given the argument above about Kamek's trophy in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, this doesn't necessarily mean Kamek in Mario Superstar Baseball is the same Kamek from Yoshi's Island; it may also mean the Magikoopas in general. What makes this difficult to definitely prove is the different release periods and developers of MSB and SSB for Wii U, since the logic seen in the latter may not apply in the former.
  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story: Magikoopas appear as allies to Bowser and are called so in-game. A group of them is imprisoned in Peach's Castle, and freeing them allows Bowser to use Magikoopa Mob special attack. One Magikoopa is seen assisting Bowser at the beginning and at the end of the game, but it's not elaborated if he is Kamek. However, a downloadable wordsearch from the official website has Kamek's name in it.

  • The wordsearch function is interesting, since while it is an non-game source, it's still official enough to warrant a mention. However, only "Magikoopa" is seen as a in-game name. Further research on this may be required.

Mario & Luigi: Dream Team: Kamek (called so in-game) appears as a major antagonist and a boss. Magikoopas (also called so in-game) appear during the battle against Giant Bowser.

  • This is sufficient enough info.

Kamek's alias?

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars: Multiple Magikoopas appear in the game. One of them is fought as a boss near the end of the game in Bowser's Keep. It is called "Magikoopa" in-game. It's Psychopath thought is "That's... my child?", referring to Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. However, in the Japanese version, this boss is called 「カメザード」 "Kamezaado", a unique name not seen anywhere else, and it's Psychopath thought is 「キイーッウキイーーッ! あの時の赤んぼう!?」 (translation from this wiki: "Kiiukiii! The baby from that time!?").

Observation: As with Yoshi's Island, some enemies have different names from their supposed true name; Goby is the prime example. In addition to this, the Japanese version has some other unique names, such as ノコへい Nokohei for this game's Koopa Troopas, Terrapins.
Query: Is "Kamezaado" truly a name specific to a single character?
Checking: Found this video of the Japanese version speedrun. At around 24:18, Bowser makes his speech to his troops. In addition to Kamezaado, he also mentions ノコヤン Nokoyan (aka Jagger) and クリヅエンヌ Kurizuennu. Both are later found in Mostro Town as an optional boss and an NPC with three kids, respectively.
Argument: Based on the above evidence, the name "Kamezaado" indeed refers to just one Magikoopa.

Query: What of his Psychopath thought?

Argument: The English quote makes a direct reference to the Magikoopa being the same one from Yoshi's Island. However, the translation of the Japanese quote makes it sound like it's not personal, and talks about the baby in general. On the other hand, Kamezaado is an unique character, so him being the same Magikoopa from Yoshi's Island is also plausible.
  • This is sufficient enough info.

Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga: Magikoopas appear as enemies late in the game. There's also a character called Psycho Kamek.

Argument: Appearance- and name-wise, Psycho Kamek doesn't seem to be the same character as Kamek. He also appears to be rather senile, which also doesn't fit Kamek.
  • Further research on this may be required.

Super Princess Peach: There is an boss called "Giant Kamek" (デカメック Dekamekku). Magikoopas also appear under the name "Kamek".

Observation: This game's translation is inconsistent. For example, Petey Piranha is known as Boss P. Plant.
Query: What does this mean for Giant Kamek?
Argument: The translation team seems to have translated enemy names more literally which is inconsistent with usual naming of Mario characters. In addition, the glossary of the game says that Giant Kamek is "a Kamek made huge by magic". Thus, it is just a generic Magikoopa and not Kamek.
  • This is sufficient enough info.

Final word and verdict

Kamek's first appearance is said to be Yoshi's Island, but that game was also full of strange and inconsistent enemy names, which makes its translation work questionable. Regardless, the name "Kamek" and the individual character bearing it have since then become a norm among the western Mario fandom, and the overseas Nintendo subsidiaries have made this part of the canon. In Japan, where only the name "Kamek" is used, this doesn't seem to be a case. They treat this character as if his individuality is not such a big deal, e.g. they don't care if Kamek from Yoshi's Island is the same one as the one from the beginning of Super Mario Galaxy. Also, among the Japanese Mario base, boss enemies (such as, in Magikoopa's case, Kamella (ボスカメック Bosu Kamekku) or Giant Kamek (デカメック Dekamekku) seem to be truly significantly different from the main species.

The only true link to Kamek from Yoshi's Island seems to be Magikoopa (aka Kamezaado) from Super Mario RPG. Both the Japanese and English versions make him seemingly the same character who appeared in Yoshi's Island. It also helps his individuality that he has a unique Japanese name. However, this hasn't been seemingly supported in later games in Japan.

Different translations in the same language also complicate the matter. Super Mario 3D World and Mario Party 9 both use different names in NTSC and PAL versions, which takes away from Kamek's individuality depending on which name is used and how many of this character there are. Sometimes a mistranslated bio can make it seem like Kamek is no unique character. Others, like Kamek's trophy in the Smash Bros. Wii U don't bother to fix potential errors that make him the same as Magikoopas.

Ultimately, my thought on this matter is that Kamek being his own character is a translation goof that was then made canon in the west. From this point of view, anything that seems like an error actually reveals a bit of the truth by accident. As recent games seem to conflict with Kamek's individuality, these "errors" are ignored in favour of one's own point of view which attempts to fix this. However, I think the damage is already done, now that Japanese knowledge of Kamek is mixing up with western knowledge.

Final verdict: Kamek is not truly his own character from Magikoopas, expections notwithstanding.

Possible actions: Post my opinion on Kamek's talk page and see if it goes anywhere.

Current situation: Opinion posted. No conversation has sparked from it.