User talk:Wilben

Generic themes

Hey there—I added the generic audio files to pages like Underwater BGM (Super Mario Bros.) and Peach's Castle (theme) many years ago, right when the idea to make pages like that was starting to be put into action. The general reasoning was to have some form of super generalized, plain audio to cover the general motif of the notes to be more recognizable, letting listeners pick up on the idea so they can hear it in other works. Evidently as those pages have evolved over time, they're probably no longer needed. Trig - 13:51, June 5, 2025 (EDT)

File summaries

When uploading files, in the file summary, remember to remove any parameters you're not using and replace {{uncategorized}} with a file category link, like this. Mario JC 08:21, June 26, 2025 (EDT)

Coordination on music articles

I notice that you have been actively contributing to documentation of musical themes recently, including creating new articles and editing existing articles for consistency. Being able to coordinate new edits easily would be helpful. Are you currently on the Discord server? B700465189a9 (talk) 04:54, June 30, 2025 (EDT)

Pages with identifier

Please stop removing the {{about}} template from pages with identifiers, as the point of the template is to efficiently redirect users to other pages if they accidentally end up in the wrong ones, even with identifiers. — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 09:20, August 4, 2025 (EDT)

Mentioning sound players within Super Mario 3D All-Stars

When documenting appearances for themes, soundtracks and sound players should be mentioned. The most recent revision to the "Toad's Message" article removed one of these mentions for Super Mario 3D All-Stars. B700465189a9 (talk) 17:14, October 26, 2025 (EDT)

Then why do most of the musical themes from the Donkey Kong Country series combine their reissues as one entry?

Here’s the thing — it is my fault that other people started combining reissues together into one entry. It all started when I was editing the Super Star (theme) page late at night, specifically the section about the Mario Discovery series. I was being lazy, and instead of separating each arrangement properly, I left them grouped. I figured I would fix it the day after, which I never actually did — even to this day, it seems, and people started copying my mistake, thinking it was intentional. The original intention was always to list each arrangement individually. --Conradd (talk) 12:59, November 2, 2025 (EST)

Nintendo Music playlists

Just wondering, but are you going to make redirects for the rest of the character playlists? Imo this is a case where we have to go all or nothing. Technetium (talk) 19:46, November 12, 2025 (EST)

Forgot to mention, but both the playlists for Yoshi and Yoshi Kid are called "Yoshi" in the app itself (the identifier is only for the wiki). Technetium (talk) 10:47, November 13, 2025 (EST)

Dijek

Hello, are you familiar with the account Dijek (talk)? You both have edited under the same IP address. Mario JC 21:57, January 1, 2026 (EST)

No??? Wilben 23:25, January 1, 2026 (EST)

I am a different person lol maybe same isp Dijek (talk) 22:31, January 15, 2026 (EST)

Redirects

Please stop marking redirects that were former titles for articles for deletion - see MarioWiki:Redirects#Unnecessary redirects. It's not because people may search for it, it's that there's no point to go out of your way to tag or delete these redirects, and deleting alternate-name redirects, especially ones that were the articles' titles for a while, breaks external links other websites (the Mario Wiki sites in other languages included) may have to link to the articles. Mario JC 19:36, January 8, 2026 (EST)

Couldn't the Mario Wiki sites in other languages just change the link to the current name? Also, several other redirects for articles that were the former name for a while have also been deleted (e.g. "Stage Start (theme)" and "Staff Roll (Super Mario 64)"), so why would it be any different now? Wilben 00:50, January 9, 2026 (EST)

Yes they can, but they won't always be fixed right away, or (for non-wikis) fixed at all. "Staff Roll (Super Mario 64)" is ambiguous and falls in the second example since it can refer to the theme or the actual credits. Mario JC 01:44, January 9, 2026 (EST)

Okay, but that doesn't why answer why "Stage Start (theme)" was deleted, and why you bothered to restore it after it was deleted for so long. Furthermore, other redirects for articles that were the former names have been deleted for a long time (e.g. "Mario Circuit (Super Smash Bros. Brawl)" and "Yoshi's Island (Super Smash Bros.)", yet no one seemed to mind, so why should it be any different now? Granted, I restored those two redirects myself due to not finding any good reason for them to be deleted in the first place, but the point still stands. I'm just saying, I fail to see how being a former name is a valid reason to keep a redirect if said redirect is essentially useless otherwise. Wilben 07:58, January 9, 2026 (EST)

You were already told why it is not useless. Redirects are helpful links to outside websites. — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 08:18, January 9, 2026 (EST)

And I asked if the outside website could just change the link, in which Mario JC said yes. Also, that still doesn't answer everything else I asked, such as why "Mario Circuit (Super Smash Bros. Brawl)" and "Yoshi's Island (Super Smash Bros.)" were deleted for so long despite being the former names of Figure-8 Circuit (stage) and Super Happy Tree (stage) respectively. Wilben 08:26, January 9, 2026 (EST)

Because that was prior to the policy being updated to discourage deleting such redirects. Mario JC 09:24, January 9, 2026 (EST)

The two redirects I mentioned were deleted after that proposal was made back in October 2018, yet they weren't restored until last year. Again, I'm failing to see how this makes any sense. Wilben 09:33, January 9, 2026 (EST)

Would you mind explaining to me, beyond just "following the rules", why you seem so invested in deleting old redirects that do not harm page navigation? — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 17:19, January 9, 2026 (EST)

I'm just trying to make sense of this, that's all. If actual useful and/or important redirects such as "Mario Circuit (Super Smash Bros. Brawl)" and "Yoshi's Island (Super Smash Bros.)" can just be deleted for years without issue, then why should redirects that serve little to no purpose stay? Those two redirects I mentioned were the former names of their respective articles, yet no one seemed to bat an eye for approximately 5 years until I restored them myself. Like I said, I just want to make sense of all of this, and I fail to see how external links is at all a sensible reason to keep otherwise pointless redirects when several redirects that were actually useful have been deleted without issue. Wilben 18:42, January 9, 2026 (EST)

Music Park (theme)

While the instrument versions in the classic course are remixes of the Mario Kart 8 arrangement, the main track is still an arrangement of the original theme, therefore they should be treated as an arrangement. The Dab Master 10:10, January 15, 2026 (EST)

Other Mario Kart musical theme articles list frontrunning and other variations of tracks that were arranged for later games as simply remixes. If more specificity is desired, then "remix of arrangement" or similar wording could be used. B700465189a9 (talk) 10:25, January 15, 2026 (EST)

I know, and I disagree. I've fixed a couple of those already. As for the wording, I feel like that's unnecessary. I don't want to have stuff like "Remix of arrangement of arrangement of remix of vocalization of sound effect" or something like that (although thinking about it now, maybe footnotes can somehow be used for this). The Dab Master 10:42, January 15, 2026 (EST)

An arrangement can have its own remix though? I fail to understand your reasoning here. Wilben 12:38, January 15, 2026 (EST)

Also, that's literally not what an arrangement is? An arrangement is a musical adaptation of an existing composition. A remix is a song that has been altered or contorted from its original state by adding, removing, or changing pieces of the item. The instrument variants of the Mario Kart 8 arrangement of "Music Park" simply add extra instruments to the theme, therefore making them remixes by definition. Again, I fail to see what is so confusing about this. Wilben 12:46, January 15, 2026 (EST)

Saying "Remix" implies it's a remix of the original theme, not of an arrangement. The Mario Kart 8 version is an arrangement, therefore it stays an arrangement. I might also add that I've been corrected on this before. The Dab Master 12:59, January 15, 2026 (EST)

Well, to be fair, the theme that was listed there is not a remix. I also corrected the same thing for the Mario Kart World arrangement of "Choco Mountain" for the same reason. Wilben 13:34, January 15, 2026 (EST)

Also, I'm pretty sure Mario JC didn't mean it like that, and even if they did, referring to the instrument variations of "Music Park" as arrangements is still incorrect regardless, so that's a moot point. Wilben 15:33, January 15, 2026 (EST)

I only mean the instrument versions in Mario Kart 8, NOT 7. In other words, the ones in Mario Kart 8 are remixes of "3DS Music Park", but arrangements of "Music Park". The Dab Master 16:08, January 15, 2026 (EST)

Like I said, those would classify as remixes regardless. It's not like the Yoshi version of "Hightail Falls Galaxy" from Super Mario Galaxy 2 should be considered an arrangement of the Yoshi version of "Athletic BGM" from Super Mario World. It's just a strange way of classifying things if you ask me. Wilben 18:24, January 15, 2026 (EST)

Sound gallery redirects

Your requests to delete redirects to the Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey sound test were denied, as the redirects are a valid way to point readers looking for specific tracks to the article on the wiki that currently has the most relevant information about them. If those musical themes ever get their own articles, then those should be made over the redirects, but until then, it is better to leave them as they are. — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 17:58, January 18, 2026 (UTC)

I don't agree with that in the slightest, especially since the sound test doesn't even contain audio clips pertaining to the musical themes that are being redirected to it, but I also have better things to do than to argue about it, so I'll just say "agree to disagree" and move on with my life. Wilben 22:34, January 18, 2026 (EST)

Navboxes and categories on music articles

I strongly feel that it does not make sense to remove navboxes, navbox links, and categories from music for all but their first appearance (and Donkey Konga). We do not do this for characters, locations, items, or anything else; so it strikes me as entirely illogical to do it for music. Ahemtoday (talk) 03:27, February 5, 2026 (UTC)

If this is about my edit for "Mute City", I'm just doing what's become the norm for musical theme articles. Every other musical theme just contains the navboxes for their debut appearances, the Donkey Konga games, and, in the case of "DK Rap" and "Attack! Fury Bowser", their appearances in movies. I don't see why anyone would have an issue with that, especially right now when musical themes have been like this for years now. Wilben 10:41, February 5, 2026 (EST)

Re: "Unknown" composers

i really don't like the justification of "it's already like this elsewhere" for removing perfectly valid information. if anything, it should be the other way, with all theme pages with various potential composers listing all of them. after all, there are many many many composers out there, so listing 2 or 4 potential candidates is better than just listing "Unknown". — eviemaybe (talk) 19:45, February 6, 2026 (UTC)

I was actually thinking of adding some sort of "possible_composers" parameter to the infobox a while ago. The Dab Master 19:52, February 6, 2026 (UTC)

If there exists a proposal that enforces musical theme articles to list all of the composers for its origin game if the specific composer is otherwise unknown, then fine. But until then, I'd rather just keep things simple and consistent by simply not listing the composers at all, especially when that has already been the norm for musical themes for years now. Wilben 21:56, February 6, 2026 (EST)

Luigi Circuit (Mario Kart Wii theme)

Just a small correction to your edit summary here; the edit you're talking about was to Staff Credits (Mario Kart 64 theme), not Rock Rock Mountain (theme). The Dab Master 15:49, February 24, 2026 (UTC)

Rude edit summary

Please be mindful of what you say in edit summaries. Calling another user deaf or dumb is rude and discourteous. It could have been a genuine mixup as Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker shares many similarities with Super Mario 3D World. Sparks (talk) 00:58, March 11, 2026 (UTC)

Okay. I apologize. Wilben 06:55, March 11, 2026 (EST)

Re: Red proposal

just as a heads up, you forgot to add the talk page proposal to the list in the main MarioWiki:Proposals page. i already did it, so don't worry about it. — eviemaybe (talk) 14:14, March 11, 2026 (UTC)

Warning

This is a warning to stop your inappropriate behavior (being rude in summaries) on the Super Mario Wiki. Please adhere to the rules or you will be blocked from editing this site. If you feel this warning was undeserved, you may appeal it.

A few users including staff have noticed you still being snippy in your summaries even after an admin told you off for this same issue, in particular here and here. While I understand music-related articles are your focus on the wiki, that doesn't mean you can talk back at other users who may be doing something you disagree with. Please be more civil when communicating to others; you're capable of phrasing your language in a manner that doesn't come off as rude, and if you have an issue with another user's edits, you can reach out to them directly. Mario JC 09:54, April 5, 2026 (UTC)

Okay. I apologize for my behavior. I'll stop being rude in my edit summaries going forward. Thank you for the warning. Wilben 10:31, April 5, 2026 (UTC)

Mario Kart World prelude arrangements

I have seen you use the term "pastiche" in certain articles, so I assume you're more familiar with it.

Would you consider certain preludes of Mario Kart World course themes to be pastiches when compared to the main music track, considering they only take inspiration from the instrumentation and not any part of the motif? In particular, I'm thinking of "Mario Bros. Circuit", "DK Pass", "Koopa Troopa Beach", "Peach Beach", and "Moo Moo Meadows". The Dab Master 17:48, April 16, 2026 (UTC)

Going by the definition on the Wikipedia page, a pastiche is a work of art (in this case music) that imitates the style or character of another art. Since some of the prelude themes you mentioned are clearly based on their respective course's theme but don't actually contain said theme's melody, I suppose that would technically make them pastiches. So to answer your question: Sure, I don't see why not. Wilben 19:34, April 16, 2026 (UTC)

Spotify albums for Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2

I added information about the Super Mario Galaxy 2 album to the article for "Yoshi Star Galaxy." Do you have any thoughts on the formatting before I apply the same changes to other musical theme articles? I also listed the Spotify albums under the "Albums" section and provided the specific album name, rather than placing Spotify under "Other media" like how Nintendo Music is currently treated. Would you say that the Nintendo Music appearances should be listed in that way as well? B700465189a9 (talk) 23:08, April 25, 2026 (UTC)

I'm fine with having the Spotify soundtracks being listed under the "Albums" sections of the list of appearances, but I would keep Nintendo Music listed under "Other media", as Nintendo Music as a whole is not an album, and should only count as one appearance, regardless of how many different versions of the same theme from different soundtracks get added to the app. The current formatting you have for "Yoshi Star Galaxy" seems perfectly fine to me. Wilben 02:31, April 26, 2026 (UTC)

I don't mind counting every Nintendo Music track as a single "Nintendo Music" appearance for the recurring themes criteria or placing the appearances in the "Other media" section, but I would prefer if the tracks are associated with their Nintendo Music release rather than "Nintendo Music" in general. For example, the appearances of "The Toad Brigade" on Nintendo Music can be divided into the original track in the Super Mario Galaxy album, the original track in the Super Mario Bros. Wonder album, and the various arrangements in the latter album. The Super Mario Bros. Wonder tracks in particular would both be listed with "Added on" footnotes, which somewhat obfuscates the fact that only "It's Captain Toad!" was part of the original Nintendo Music release for the game. B700465189a9 (talk) 21:18, April 26, 2026 (UTC)

Regarding the appearance lists of tracks in SMG + SMG2

Would you mind explaining to me why it is a good idea to list Super Mario Galaxy + Super Mario Galaxy 2 on the appearance tables of Galaxy tracks? It is a store bundle which consists of two separate game that are the same as the product as the individually sold options, so listing it twice gives the impression that these games are different when they aren't by any measure. — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 22:30, May 23, 2026 (UTC)

Technically, the Super Mario Galaxy + Super Mario Galaxy 2 bundle is a separate product from the Nintendo Switch versions of Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2, as the bundle can be purchased as a singular physical cartridge, while the two games can also be purchased digitally individually. Also, New Super Mario Bros. U + New Super Luigi U and Puzzle & Dragons Z + Puzzle & Dragons: Super Mario Bros. Edition are listed in appearance tables of musical theme articles despite also being bundles that are essentially the same as the individually sold games, so Super Mario Galaxy + Super Mario Galaxy 2 should be no different. Wilben (talk • edits) 23:11, May 23, 2026 (UTC)

Alright, so none of those points answer my question. Being a separate product does not make it a separate game.I want to hear from you why do you think this benefits these tables. — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 23:15, May 23, 2026 (UTC)

If the metric for appearances tables is to only include games, then arguably the Nintendo Switch ports of either game shouldn't be listed at all. B700465189a9 (talk) 23:20, May 23, 2026 (UTC)

The switch ports provide meaningful differences to the original experience, they are not the same file sold under a different price tag. — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 23:24, May 23, 2026 (UTC)

I don't disagree, but the Wii version of Super Mario Galaxy is the same game as the Nintendo Switch version of Super Mario Galaxy. B700465189a9 (talk) 23:34, May 23, 2026 (UTC)

"Being a separate product does not make it a separate game." As far as I'm concerned, that doesn't really matter with musical theme articles. Nearly every musical theme article up to this point lists all reissues and bundles seperately in appearance tables regardless of how different the two different products actually are. I don't see why the Super Mario Galaxy + Super Mario Galaxy 2 bundle should be treated any differently in that regard. Wilben (talk • edits) 23:32, May 23, 2026 (UTC)

Alright. I don't think I'm getting past the wall of "we've always done it this way". So if you one day actually do find an answer for why you think this is helpful, feel free to answer my question then. I don't have the energy to fight this battle of attrition. — Lady Sophie_17 ^(T|C) 23:35, May 23, 2026 (UTC)

Help?

Can you Help! me with this music page I just created? Sentry Garage (talk) 22:58, May 26, 2026 (UTC)Sentry Garage

Nintendo Music citation

Regarding Chain Chomp Wheel (and all other music articles in the same situation): I am aware that Nintendo Music has the highest priority for music names. The issue is that you're citing Nintendo Music for names that don't actually appear in Nintendo Music. Using the Chain Chomp Wheel example, the name given to that theme in Nintendo Music is "Chain Chomp Wheel (Mario Kart Wii)", not just "Chain Chomp Wheel" as the article uses, which is sourced from the Mario Kart World pause menu. Putting a Nintendo Music citation for a name not used in Nintendo Music is, I think, weird and misleading. (Technically the article should be moved to "Chain Chomp Wheel (Mario Kart Wii)" if we were following policy to the letter, but I'm assuming we haven't done that just to save us having to move it back if and when Mario Kart Wii gets a Nintendo Music release. Maybe it's a bit nitpicky of me to make that distinction based on just a game name in brackets being added to the name, but we went to the trouble of moving "Drifting Away" to "Sci-Fi (Dribble & Spitz) - Drifting Away" to match exactly how it's formatted on the app.) Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 14:43, July 15, 2026 (UTC)

We generally tend to omit game identifiers in article titles unless it's from a medley. The Dab Master 14:49, July 15, 2026 (UTC)

That doesn't address the main point of what I was saying. Also (forgot to mention in the initial comment), these edits often completely remove mention of what the themes are called on the pause menu, which I don't like as it's removing relevant information from the articles. If it's the same name as in Nintendo Music, we can have two citations. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 14:54, July 15, 2026 (UTC)

In response to this edit summary: The fact that "we basically never list the names of reuses and arrangements when they are identical to the original theme's name" is a problem, for the reasons I clearly outlined in my own edit summary (which you made no effort to address), and it is a problem that you are preventing me from solving by reverting my edits. You really need to stop giving "we already do it this way so it must be the right way"-style arguments, it is not a valid reason to deliberately exclude relevant information and harm the quality of the articles. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:25, July 19, 2026 (UTC)

According to this and other edit summaries, there was a consensus on the Super Mario Wiki Discord server that listing the names of reuses and arrangements that have identical names to the original themes is redundant and unnecessary. I don't really use Discord, so take this however you will. Wilben (talk • edits) 19:48, July 19, 2026 (UTC)

I saw @Mario jc revert several of an I.P.'s edits that were adding this kind of sentence, which I then brought up on the Discord here. I was told by several other editors that I don't need to repeat the name of the title if it matches the one used as the article's title. To be honest, I'd rather have this determined by a proposal to make it an actual policy (if it isn't one already). The Dab Master 20:09, July 19, 2026 (UTC)

Okay, at least some actual arguments have been made for this, that's more reasonable then. I personally still don't agree though (I don't think it makes sense to make comparisons to subjects like Goombas when the names of musical themes are much less consistent and change more frequently, which makes it unreasonable to assume that the title used in-game would obviously be the same as the article title). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 20:30, July 19, 2026 (UTC)

I am begging you to stop reverting every change I make to the music articles with the reasoning of "the other music articles don't do this". You need to understand that the other music articles are not perfect, which is why I was planning to also make the same improvements on all of them to make them consistent. Since I'm unfortunately not a superhuman who can edit all of the hundreds of music articles at once, I have to make these improvements to each article one at a time. I'm willing to discuss if you have actual arguments against the changes I'm making, but please, no more "the other articles are different".
Speaking of which, why do you keep trying to obscure the Mario Kart World pause menu names at every opportunity? I know that our naming policy puts Nintendo Music as a higher priority, but that's a naming policy, it doesn't dictate what information the articles themselves are allowed to cover. Having multiple citations for a name is also extremely common and helps make it immediately clear to the reader which sources have used that name, I don't understand what the issue is. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 09:38, July 27, 2026 (UTC)

For appearance tables, listing every single alternate English name for a single musical theme in the appearance tables is superfluous and redundant, as 1.) Some themes would have way more names than is absolutely necessary (e.g. "Luigi Raceway"), and 2.) Information on the alternate names are already listed in the main article anyway, while the appearance tables are just for listing off all of the musical theme's appearances, so just listing the Nintendo Music name, which is the name that takes absolute highest priority, should suffice.

For citations, listing sources where the name differs is more than acceptable, but listing literally every single time the same name is used is extremely superfluous and redundant, as then there would be way more citations than what is absolutely necessary, when just listing the Nintendo Music soundtrack, the OST album, and/or the game's sound test would have sufficed. For example, "Bowser's Galaxy Generator" has been referred to as such in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Mario Kart World, and Spotify, yet only Nintendo Music is cited for the article name, as listing all of the other sources that are lower priority is not at all necessary. Wilben (talk • edits) 10:37, July 27, 2026 (UTC)

I thought the point of the "Title" column in those tables was to have a convenient place to list all the titles that have been used for that track in each of its appearances. It's especially ridiculous here to prevent these names from being listed when they're the ones used in-game, considering the point is specifically to list the names that pertain to each game. If anything the in-game names should take priority over the Nintendo Music names for this section, seeing as the latter are already listed in their own sub-section anyway.

I'm only asking to add one extra citation. Plenty of articles have two citations for a name, like The Toad Brigade, Aquatic Ambiance, Gusty Garden Galaxy, Title (Super Mario Maker), etc., etc. This is an improvement because having only one citation for a name gives the misleading impression that that is the only source to use that name. For example, the current state of the Peach Circuit theme article suggests that it was never called that until being added to Nintendo Music, which is not correct. A reader unfamiliar with the Mario Kart World pause menu would have no idea that the name was also used there, and a reader who is familiar with it might think "huh, I wonder what this track is called in the Mario Kart World pause menu" and find the article to be missing that information. (But for some reason, the Mario Kart 8 section is allowed to list both of the sources that use the "GBA Mario Circuit" name without issue.) I think it would be helpful to the reader if the music articles had a clear list of every name used for the track in every source, but if I'm not allowed to use the appearance lists section nor the citations to do that, then I'm at a loss. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 12:37, July 27, 2026 (UTC)

For the citations, musical themes from Mario Kart 8, Super Mario Galaxy, Donkey Kong Country, and Super Mario 64 cite both Nintendo Music and their OST albums because their names first appeared in those albums and Nintendo Music simply reuses those names, so only listing Nintendo Music wouldn't make perfect sense. Title (Super Mario Maker) has two citations for its name because its current name comes from an arrangement that first appeared in two games at the same time, so prioritizing one over the other also wouldn't make perfect sense.

For the appearance tables... yeah, I just wholeheartedly disagree that the in-game should take priority over the Nintendo Music name. As far as I'm concerned, the Nintendo Music name is what Nintendo themselves wants the theme to be known as, and if the current policy for musical theme articles is to prioritize the Nintendo Music name, then the appearance table should follow suit for consistency sake. Wilben (talk • edits) 13:18, July 27, 2026 (UTC)

Those arguments also apply to Mario Kart World. All of these tracks were first named in the pause menu before they appeared on Nintendo Music, whose names are based on the pause menu names (with a game identifier added that we ignore anyway).

The appearance tables aren't trying to list the name that Nintendo currently uses or that our naming policy prefers, they're trying to list the names for each track as they appear in each game. Hence why it's a column in the table, so that different names can be listed (including ones that are not the article title). Why shouldn't we be allowed to list the names that appear in the game itself in a list of names that pertain to that game? It's completely nonsensical and misses the point of the section imo. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:02, July 27, 2026 (UTC)

I'll give you the point you have on the Mario Kart World citations, but I still wholeheartedly disagree with your appearance table point. If the article uses the Nintendo Music name over the in-game name, then I think it would be safe to assume that the name used for the appearance table would follow suit for consistency. I don't really see how that is "nonsensical". Wilben (talk • edits) 02:17, July 28, 2026 (UTC)

The table isn't trying to match the page title, it's trying to list the name that corresponds the most to the theme's appearance in Mario Kart World. Which would be the name that appears in Mario Kart World. If you need an example, notice how most of the names listed here are not the page title. (Also, in this case specifically, most of the pause menu names do match the page title anyway, and even match it more closely than the Nintendo Music names, so if anything they'd be the more "consistent" ones.) Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 08:16, July 28, 2026 (UTC)

...That is literally not what I'm talking about. What I'm trying to say is that if the original theme's article name prioritizes its Nintendo Music name over other sources, I would expect all reuses and arrangements to prioritize their Nintendo Music names as well, including in the appearance tables. That's what I mean by consistency, not the actual names themselves. The reason Luigi Raceway (theme) also includes "Mario Raceway", "Wario Stadium", and "Royal Raceway" in its appearance table is because those are the Nintendo Music names. Wilben (talk • edits) 09:03, July 28, 2026 (UTC)

In general contexts, yeah, that would make sense. But not in the context of trying to list the name that pertains to a specific appearance, and that appearance provides a name for the theme. You can't get closer to the source than that. It's kinda the same premise as the rule to use the name of a subject that was used at the time. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:13, July 28, 2026 (UTC)

Musical themes do not follow the same naming rules as other subjects though. Wilben (talk • edits) 18:44, July 28, 2026 (UTC)

I know, my point was that it's the same principle. Also, the reason musical themes have different naming rules is because their names are naturally a lot more volatile and inconsistent compared to other subjects, which is why I think it would be good if music pages had some way of documenting every name used for the theme in every official source (even though the same may not be done for, say, Goomba). That way, the theme's naming history is made fully clear to the reader, rather than parts of it being needlessly obscured. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 00:31, July 29, 2026 (UTC)

Wouldn't the differing names from official sources just be listed somewhere in the article anyway via the opening paragraph, History section, or, in the case of albums, the Albums section of appearance tables? Listing every single alternate name for one singular theme from one game in the appearance table just seems superfluous to me when 1.) one of the sources is lower priority than the other, and 2.) that information is still included in the article in some way or form regardless, only being omitted if the name is identical to the article name, as Dab Master mentioned above with consensus from the Discord server. I just fail to see the point in adding every single alternate name for one singular theme in one game, when, as far as I'm concerned, it has been well established that we only list one name per source in the appearance tables, and that one name should be the highest priority source. And if the reader really wanted to know about any other alternate names for one theme, they can always look somewhere else within the article to find that information. It's not like removing the pause menu names for the Mario Kart World arrangements of "Super Mario Kart Title Screen" from its appearance table suddenly means that we're removing that information from that article, as the pause menu names are still mentioned within the Mario Kart World section. Also, if we started listing every single alternate name for one singular theme from one game in the appearance table, then themes like "Peach's Castle", "Luigi Raceway", and "Mine Cart Madness" would also need to list "Inside the Castle Walls", "3 Raceways/Wario Stadium", and "THE CART LEVEL" alongside their Nintendo Music names, which just seems extremely unnecessary to me for the reasons I've already brought up. Wilben (talk • edits) 03:04, July 29, 2026 (UTC)

The problem here is that the information is not still included in the article regardless, because all my attempts to add it are being reverted.
"it has been well established that we only list one name per source in the appearance tables" - That's untrue for a start (Luigi Raceway has four Nintendo Music names, as we've seen), and even if it was true, it wouldn't be an issue here because the names are from different sources anyway. If examples of precedent are what you need, check out the Super Mario Odyssey row on this page's appearance table, which has no problem listing the in-game name and the Nintendo Music name just like I want to do.
It's convenient you picked Super Mario Kart Title Screen for your example, where the pause menu names are at least still noted in the Mario Kart World section. In most of these articles (such as my earlier example of Peach Circuit), the pause menu names have been completely scrubbed off the articles and aren't mentioned anywhere, which is silly (especially in that example where the pause menu was notably the first official source for the page title).
If it wasn't clear, yes I would support listing those other alternate names too (except THE CART LEVEL since that's only from non-English sources and would instead belong in the names in other languages section). I think the section should be used to list all the official English titles for the theme that we have. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 09:33, July 29, 2026 (UTC)

Okay, let me be more specific. It's well established that we only list one source per game in appearance tables. In the case of Super Mario Odyssey in "Slot Game BGM / Memory Game BGM", 1.) I haven't gotten around to fixing that article yet, and 2.) Whenever I do get around to it, I would've made it so it only lists the Nintendo Music name for consistency with other musical theme articles.

For Peach Circuit (theme), while it's true that information on the pause menu is technically nowhere in the article, the fact of the matter is that there was consensus on the Discord server to not list musical theme names that are identical to the article name. So if you want to change that, I would suggest either getting consensus to do so via a proposal or on the Discord server.

And, yeah, no, I still wholeheartedly disagree in listing every single alternate name for a singular theme from one game in the appearance tables. I still think that is incredibly unnecessary and redundant for the reasons I have already stated before and don't want to keep repeating myself, and absolutely nothing you have said for the past few days has convinced otherwise. Sorry. Wilben (talk • edits) 16:20, July 29, 2026 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for actually discussing this. I think what I'll do for now is add the pause menu citation and leave the rest of the page alone, if there's no more objections. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 21:07, July 29, 2026 (UTC)

Sound good to me. 👍 Wilben (talk • edits) 21:13, July 29, 2026 (UTC)

"Nintendo Music" citations

So your recent Nintendo Music proposal got me thinking. Why don't we separate the different albums between citations as well? I feel like simply linking to the app's main article would not be very helpful in saying where exactly in the app does a title come from. I think we should instead link to each soundtrack like this, just like with any other physical album: <ref name=MK7NM>''[[Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo Music)|Mario Kart 7]]'' (Nintendo Music)</ref>. Results (1st – 4th Place) specifically could use four different sources between the Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Mario Kart 7, Mario Kart 64, and Mario Kart World soundtracks in both its appearances and NIOL sections. In cases like World Clear! (Super Mario 3D Land), simply saying "Nintendo Music" as a source for the title might lead someone to believe that Super Mario 3D Land is on the app, which is not at all the case.

My only concern is that references section might look a little bit more cluttered than usual, but I dunno, maybe it won't that bad. The Dab Master 14:46, July 15, 2026 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea! 👍 Wilben (talk • edits) 14:49, July 15, 2026 (UTC)

Could the gallery links also be changed to links to Nintendo Music soundtrack articles? B700465189a9 (talk) 19:07, July 15, 2026 (UTC)