Talk:Cobra (Luigi's Mansion 3)

Delete

The recently created animal articles are valid because they serve a gameplay purpose, but snakes are only an aesthetic effect like the article says, so why was this created? Outside of MKWorld, there's no reason for this article to exist since the rest of it covers snake characters and enemies that would be covered on their own articles, which is what categories are for (same reason Elephant was deleted before it had a gameplay purpose in MKWorld). It doesn't meet any of the "Exceptions" criteria (especially the first point - they're behaviourally hardly different from regular snakes, even with the Mario-like design), nor has it had a consistent, recurring appearance. Mario JC 08:29, August 23, 2025 (EDT)

I think the reasoning for these recent expansions is so that the more anthropomorphic Bananza animal characters wouldn't be confused for their non-anthropomorphic counterparts (which have appeared in prior entries) and/or to prevent "one-in-all pages" such as this. rend (talk) (edits) 09:24, August 23, 2025 (EDT)

I think it bears noting that this snake also exists and, given there's no official name for it in any language, could also be merge here akin to crow's current setup (and without the issue of a specialized Japanese name). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:33, August 23, 2025 (EDT)

I support merging the Luigi's Mansion 3 snake here. Mario JC 09:40, August 23, 2025 (EDT)

I agree --Ken17 (talk) 05:31, August 29, 2025 (EDT)

Make this article only about Mario Kart

Now that Hisstocrat's minions were separated, I think we can do the same with the pests in Luigi's Mansion 3, who used to have an article. This page should be only about the snakes in Mario Kart, as the Donkey Kong Bananaza ones already have an article.  — 10:30, September 11, 2025 (EDT)

These are both standard, nonspecific, non-sapient snakes associated with desert areas. The ones in Bananza are anthropomorphized, so splitting them makes more sense. Also, the Mario Kart snake already is an accessory to the jar obstacle as it is. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:50, September 11, 2025 (EDT)

The ones in Bananza already have their own article, so why they are mentioned here is a mystery. The snakes in Luigi's Mansion 3 have no similarities with the ones in Mario Kart, other than specie.  — 18:44, September 11, 2025 (EDT)

They're mentioned here because they're still "snakes" as far as the game is concerned. They're just not "normal" snakes by a franchise-wide metric. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:57, September 11, 2025 (EDT)

What I don't get why the Hisstocrat part was deleted while the rabbit and triceratops pages have sections for MIPS and Tricky respectively! Shouldn't those parts be deleted as well? --Ken17 (talk) 07:34, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

I feel like MIPS being mentioned makes sense because all the rabbits in subsequent Mario titles work just like him (while the Star Bunnues aren't necessarily discussed on the rabbit article, they ARE shown in its gallery). What really cements it, though, is that the Super Mario 64 DS rabbits share the same Japanese name as MIPS (as opposed to using a generic word like Usagi or Rabbitto), despite there being a bunch of rabbits whilst MIPS is presented as a single character.
As for Tricky, there is a couple of triceratops alongside him in the Diddy Kong Racing ending, and that is even pictured on the Triceratops page. rend (talk) (edits) 07:52, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

Yeah, and those horned lizards were mentioned at the last paragraph of the section while the rest is just about Tricky. Hisstocrat's snake followers were already mentioned before
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ken17 (talk).

Split this?

Where do I start? I don't know to what extent the fact that only three users agree with a change means that the change must be made immediately; three isn't even enough for a proposal. Furthermore, the suggestion didn't even last two weeks before being implemented. Maybe it's just me, but a change of this magnitude to the page should at least have a proposal to reach more wiki users, not just to implement it and that's it. Finally, this argument "could also be merge here akin to crow's current setup" seems unfair to me since it is well known that there are people opposed to that setup . If it is assumed that there is no opposition to the suggestion, but one of the main arguments used in this does generate opposition, then this, for me, does not mean that there was no opposition, but rather that it was discussed among a small group of people, and an agreement was reached without considering the opinion of other wiki users who were unaware of this suggestion, like myself. (This isn't an attack on anyone, I'm just upset by the action taken.)

Now, Mario Kart snakes have played a consistent role throughout their three appearances, always being hidden in a vase, and even in MKW, they received a redesign based on Histocrat. All this information is sufficient for Snake (Mario Kart series) to be a viable article with its own information.

On the other hand, the "snakes" in Luigi's Mansion 3 look more like cobras , and with that in mind, Cobra (Luigi's Mansion 3) would be a better conjectural title. This follows Piranha (Luigi's Mansion 3), which, despite being a fish, isn't called Fish (Luigi's Mansion 3). I also feel that merging this Cobra with Snake ignores the decision of this other proposal. These cobras have a unique role as pests, a unique appearance, and we don't even know if they're actually called snakes. The purpose of creating pages for generic subjects was primarily for generic subjects. These Mario Kart snakes have a unique role and appearance inspired by another enemy and Arab culture, while the cobras in LM3 aren't even common snakes as such. This page isn't about generic subjects, it's about two subjects with different roles, different appearances, and different behaviors. As far as I know, hiding in a vase, looking like another enemy from the franchise, and having a unique role isn't generic, right? Sorbetti (talk) 22:23, September 22, 2025 (EDT)

I agree, and even removed the talk template for my comment, so this gets more attention. What about the Crows though? Obviously, we can split the Luigi's Mansion and Paper Mario ones, but what about in Mario's Picross?  — 11:32, September 23, 2025 (EDT)

I think the Picross, PMTTYD, and first Luigi's Mansion crows should stay on the page. Despite not looking exactly the same, they all fulfill the same role: being just Crows. And even though the PMTTYD crows talk, it's not unique enough for their own page. They also act like normal crows and even reference the first Luigi's Mansion, that's not a coincidence. Finally, this behavior is explained on the same page like this: The behavior of crows in this game likely references the relatively high intelligence of real-world corvids. Not to mention, the most remarkable thing about these crows (their ability to talk) is covered in the Maude and Flo page. Sorbetti (talk) 15:30, September 26, 2025 (EDT)

I will say that "fish" is a much, much, much wider umbrella than "snake" is. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:54, September 23, 2025 (EDT)

How so? There are 30 articles in Category:Snakes.  — 12:21, September 23, 2025 (EDT)

Think of it in general, as opposed to specifically on this wiki. Fish is actually one of five biiiiig groups of vertebrates, alongside mammals, birds, reptiles, and amphibians. In comparison, snakes are only a suborder within the reptiles. So when we give a conjectural name to an article, "Fish" may be much too broad and generic of a term, since there are lots of fish, from sharks to eels to gobies to piranhas: those are all specific species, so just lumping them under "fish" would be too careless. "Snake" may also be kind of generic, but it's nearly not as broad, as the general understanding of a snake is a lot more specific in comparison to that of a fish. rend (talk) (edits) 14:50, September 23, 2025 (EDT)

Yeah, it wasn't the best comparison, but you get the point. My biggest strength in dividing this page is the different inspirations of both subjects. The Mario Kart "snake" is inspired by snake charming (Arabian culture), it's also influenced by Cobrat in the vase shape and takes the appearance of Histocrat and his minions. On the other hand, the "snake" in Luigi's Mansion 3 is inspired on ancient Egypt and all the influence that cobras had at that time. There's literally an entire floor that uses the shape of these snakes for the walls, traps, puzzles, and even the boss uses attacks shaped like these snakes. In addition, both "snakes" have different spawn locations, different mechanics, different attack patterns, different functions, and they have enough information for each one to have its own page.

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Sorbetti (talk) 15:50, September 26, 2025 (EDT)

Split Snake jar from Jar along with the Snake info and Cobra (Luigi's Mansion 3) from this page

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

split both Snake jar and Cobra 6-1-0
See my comments above for a better understanding. This page doesn't work as a generic one. It has two very different subjects, but it doesn't explain them well. "Snake jar" from Mario Kart is heavily inspired by Cobrats (regarding the jar and the behavior) and takes the appearance from Hisstocrat and his minions. Not to mention that it's heavily inspired by Snake charmers and appears on a track inspired by Arab culture in general. On the other hand, the Cobra from Luigi's Mansion 3 is inspired by the cobras of ancient Egypt and all their influence at that time. This is evident since Tomb Suites is completely inspired by them, from traps, murals, decorations, puzzles, the pyramid, and even the boss. I know the Snake (Luigi's Mansion 3) page was short and poorly done before, but that's not the subject's fault, but the page's, and I'm going to improve it.

So, Snake jar will have his own page, talking about the Snake jar origins, his behavior, his design and inspirations from Snake Charmers and Arab culture, and it will be relative to Cobrat and Histocrat. Meanwhile, Cobra (Luigi's Mansion 3) will also have his own page, explaining the places where it appears, the different types of cobra, their behavior, their inspiration in ancient Egypt, and all the representations of cobras that are found throughout the Tomb Suites level.

Also. Snakes and Snake jars are the same thing, they both always appear together and act differently than a normal Jar. Keeping them separate is equivalent to separating Stilts from Stilt Guy, Spear from Spear Guy, and is also equivalent to separating Bloopurn's information into Blooper and Jar and eliminating the Bloopurn article. The Snake is the one who controls the Snake jar, therefore, the Snake jar covers both the snake and the jar it is controlled by. Also, they have a unique gimmick, and it comes when both act simultaneously, not when the jar breaks and the snake comes out or when the jar does not have a snake inside. Since Mario Kart 7, when Snake jars appear, they open the jars, move, and then stop, and that is a gimmick, as there are normal jars near the Snake jars, and they can get confused because the Snake jar changes places. Additionally, this is an obstacle in the race, as it changes position, and it can catch players off guard. And Snake Jar should definitely be separated from Jar. Snake Jar is not the jar that contains the snake, it is both the snake and the jar. As I mentioned above, keeping it separate is redundant since both things (the jar and the snakes) are part of the same subject and gimmick. Also, the Jar page is in bad condition and has other different subjects merged with it.

Below are 2 galleries so you can see the similarities.

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"Generic pages were meant for generic subjects. The moment a subject is inspired by a culture or by another enemy of the franchise, it stops being generic, right?"

Also, if you're wondering, the Snake page, in which this proposal is, will be deleted since it will only contain a little information about the Bananza snakes, but those snakes have their own page.

Proposer: Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: October 13, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)

Split Cobra (Luigi's Mansion 3) and Snake jar on different pages and improve them (Option 1)

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per my comments above and per proposal.
2. Sargent Deez (talk) I don't get the point of not splitting the Mario Kart ones, since the Donkey Kong Bananza ones already have their own article.
3. Arend (talk) With the clarification that that Mario Kart Snake will be covered on a "Snake jar" article instead of just "Snake", and with the clarification that the Snake article will be deleted after both snakes have been split off, I suppose it's fine to support it. Snake (disambiguation) should still be moved back to "Snake" afterwards, though.
4. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per proposal
5. Blinker (talk) Per Arend.
6. Martendo (talk) Per all.

Only split Cobra (Luigi's Mansion 3) (Option 2)

1. Camwoodstock (talk) We're still skeptical of if the Mario Kart ones need to be split, but we generally split the Luigi's Mansion pests, so why this is merged here is beyond us.

#Blinker (talk) This would be consistent with (most...) other pests. It would be good to know if this snake is officially named. In a guidebook or in-game hint, for example.

Do nothing (Oppose)

#Mario jc (talk) Per my comment at the top. The Mario Kart snake is merely an aesthetic effect with no gameplay significance and isn't worth an article on its own, and just the fact that it has a Cobrat-like design isn't enough to justify one in my opinion. If any other animal or object with a design that looked any different from its real-life counterpart came out of the jar, would we create an article for them, too? If the snake were to appear in another game that isn't Mario Kart with this new design (even if it's another aesthetic-only appearance), then maybe I'd support a standalone article, but otherwise, it's fine as it is, or (if the LM3 snake were to be separate) it would be better off mentioned on the jar page.
#Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Leave LM3 here, split MK info to Snake Jar (though not "Snake (Mario Kart)" for the reasons JC mentioned).
#Arend (talk) The snake in Mario Kart is merely a visual effect from breaking a snake jar; so if we're splitting it, we might as well merge it back to Jar and/or re-split Snake jar, which is at the very least an interactable obstacle. Then, if we split the cobra too, we might as well move Snake (disambiguation) back to Snake, because there's nothing else left, beyond a mention of Snake (Donkey Kong Bananza) (which I'm not too keen on giving it any priority as they're quite anthropomorphic and distinct compared to the other two more generic snakes).

Comments

We're a tad skeptical of if the Mario Kart ones are really specific enough to deserve a split, but those Luigi's Mansion 3 ones definitely should be split--we split Piranhas, so why merge Snakes? Could we get an option to, at least, split the LM3 Snakes? :O ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 10:35, September 29, 2025 (EDT)

I guess, I'm fine with this option. Although I'd like to know what doubts you have about Snake (Mario Kart series) to see if I can help with them. Sorbetti (talk) 11:08, September 29, 2025 (EDT)

@Mario jc @Doc von Schmeltwick @Arend Wait, it seems there was a confusion on my part. Snakes and Snake jars are the same thing, they both always appear together and act differently than a normal Jar. Keeping them separate is equivalent to separating Stilts from Stilt Guy, Spear from Spear Guy, and is also equivalent to separating Bloopurn's information into Blooper and Jar and eliminating the Bloopurn article. The Snake is the one who controls the Snake jar; therefore, the Snake jar covers both the snake and the jar it is controlled by. Also, they have a unique gimmick, and it comes when both act simultaneously, not when the jar breaks and the snake comes out or when the jar does not have a snake inside. Since Mario Kart 7, when Snake jars appear, they open the jars, move, and then stop, and that is a gimmick, as there are normal jars near the Snake jars, and they can get confused because the Snake jar changes places. Additionally, this is an obstacle in the race, as it changes position, and it can catch players off guard. And Snake Jar should definitely be separated from Jar. Snake Jar is not the jar that contains the snake, it is both the snake and the jar. As I mentioned above, keeping it separate is redundant since both things (the jar and the snakes) are part of the same subject and gimmick. Also, the Jar page is in bad condition and has other different subjects merged with it. So, I'll change the proposal to split Snake Jar from Jar And split the info about the Snake with it. What are your opinions? Sorbetti (talk) 21:34, September 29, 2025 (EDT)

I've no opinion currently on the jars since I was mainly opposed to the Mario Kart snake itself being an article, but you shouldn't alter a vote option after other voters have chosen that option without letting them know first. Mario JC 08:09, September 30, 2025 (EDT)

I have to say that I haven't altered the vote, my intention was always that both the snake and the jar were split as the same subject. But I didn't know that it was called Snake Jar, so I had to clarify it in the proposal because people think I just want to split the the snake when the Snake Jar breaks, and that's not true. Both the jar and the snake are the same for what I explained above. I didn't change the options, just clarified them. Sorbetti (talk) 08:48, September 30, 2025 (EDT)

Okay, so I guess we're at least on the same page with the snake jar thing. I'm indifferent about whether to cover Snake jar on its own article or on the Jar article, but it should be noted that when initially split, "snake jar" was quickly moved to "Jar (Mario Kart series)" due to how similar the two look. rend (talk) (edits) 08:16, October 1, 2025 (EDT)

Cobras in MP7

Since the proposal above ended, it's come to my attention that cobras also play a role in one of the ? Space events of the Mario Party 7 board Pyramid Park. And they're not referred to as simply "snakes", but "cobras" (and unlike the "gators" from the same board (which are green Klaptraps with a generic name), these are actual generic cobras in red or purple). So, would that mean that these cobras would have to share an article with the Luigi's Mansion 3 cobra once that splits, and would that have to be moved to "Cobra" (with the current Cobra article to be moved to "Cobra (Wario World)"? rend (talk) (edits) 11:50, November 5, 2025 (EST)

Yes. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 07:29, November 6, 2025 (EST)

I don't think so; it would contradict one of the principles of this proposal. Besides, the two cobras are actually quite distinct. I must admit I don't like having so many pages sharing a name, so perhaps that information could be included here? I mean, there's really nothing interesting to say about those cobras, and they seem generic to me. I think "Cobra (generic)" as a replacement for "Snake (generic)" might be appropriate in this case, but I'm still undecided. Sorbetti (talk) 18:23, November 6, 2025 (EST)

I don't think a separate page for generic cobras specifically would work, unless we managed to find more generic cobras in other Mario material. I would've been fine merging the MP7 cobra with the Mario Kart snake if the cobras were actually called "snakes" as well, but no, MP7 specifically calls them "cobras" (and, well, the Mario Kart snakes are decidedly NOT cobras). rend (talk) (edits) 07:36, November 8, 2025 (EST)

To be honest, I don't think putting the information about these cobras in Snake Jar or Cobra (Luigi's Mansion 3) is the right thing to do, since it goes against the original proposal's purpose. But if you really want to add that information, I think another proposal will be needed. Sorbetti (talk) 12:17, November 24, 2025 (EST)