Template talk:SML2

Do not use Super Game Boy Player's Guide as Super Mario Land 2 level name reference

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

canceled by proposer
Several of the Super Mario Land 2 level names (such as Invincibility!, The Exit and Fiery Mario–Special Agent) are taken from the Super Game Boy Player's Guide guidebook. In my opinion, the "names" from the book the wiki uses are not meant to be intepreted as what the levels are actually called; rather, they are instead fanciful header names for sections detailing specific hints within the stages. For example, the section about the Tree Zone level known as Leaf Course in Japanese exclusively covers how you need the Super Carrot in order to reach the Bonus Bell at the end of the level, hence the section being called "The Exit". This fanciful header style is how the book is generally formatted for other games it covers as well. To give some Super Mario related examples, World 2-2 from Super Mario Land has a section called "Hidden Floors" and Course No.15 from Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 has a section called "Mysteries of the Dungeon". The book also does this for games without distinct levels, such as Metroid II: Return of Samus. My proposal is thus that we do not use this guidebook as reference for level names and instead refer to the Japanese names for the levels, one of which, "Tree Trunk Course" (the level this wiki refers to as "Invincibility!") was recently used in an english Nintendo Today! post; direct translations of the Japanese level names are also used in the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia, though this is a much more dubious source as you know.

Proposer: Snessy (talk)
Deadline: May 30, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Use the Japanese level names

1. Snessy (talk) Per proposal.
2. LadySophie17 (talk) Per proposal. The Nintendo Today note sealed the deal for me.
3. Hooded Pitohui (talk) - Yeah, these are pretty clearly flavorful headers to introduce tips about specific elements within these levels, not names for the levels themselves.
4. EvieMaybe Course (talk) per proposal
5. Mario–Mundane Agent (talk) yeah.
6. Plurality! (talk) - The Nintendo Today thing in particular feels like a pretty large smoking gun. Per proposal.
7. Mario4Ever (talk) Per all.
8. Blinker (talk) Per proposal.
9. Rykitu (talk) Per LadySophie17.

Six Golden Comments

Guys, Tree Trunk Course is a mistake. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:24, May 16, 2025 (EDT)

In this case, it's an error that's present in the original Japanese versions of the Encyclopedia as well, so you can't really blame the translators for it. Snessy (talk) 19:42, May 16, 2025 (EDT)

Wait, hang on. Apparently the Japanese version of the Nintendo Today post doesn't actually name the course at all, just calling it "Course 1". This could mean could mean that the localizers sourced the SMB Encyclopedia, but in this case that shouldn't really matter since, again, the Japanese Encyclopedia made this error too. Snessy (talk) 19:48, May 16, 2025 (EDT)

It doesn't matter who's at fault; the Nintendo Today post seemingly referred to the Encyclopedia, and clearly Nintendo Today was important enough for several people, so it would be remiss of us to leave that part ignored. (This situation is not too dissimilar from Donkey Kong Land.) Do we set that aside and consider the new version the "correct" one, even though it's still based on a naming error? Other than this odd naming error, I'd say the English Encyclopedia is pretty spot-on for these levels, and the citogenesis fear would seem to be practically nonexistent in this case. However, the proposal still doesn't account a few levels: the moon and star stages sourced from a digital manual, and Mushroom Zone and a few others sourced from a Prima guide. What happens to them if the proposal passes? Maybe it can use some more options. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:07, May 16, 2025 (EDT)

Are you implying I should not be referring to Macro-1 as "The Ant Monsters"? Heresy. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:39, May 16, 2025 (EDT)

Do not use Super Game Boy Player's Guide as Super Mario Land 2 level name DX

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Use the Encyclopedia's level names, fix the Root/Tree Trunk Course switchup 8-1-0-2-1
LinkTheLefty brought up some good points above, so I'm choosing to reboot the poll with some additional options (since the original proposal has gotten a ton of votes, I felt it'd be weird to amend these to it). See their comment above and my original proposal for more details. I'm personally for fixing the Root/Tree Trunk Course mixup since it is clearly a naming error (every other Encyclopedia name is 1:1 with the Shogakugan guide) and for replacing all of the non-SGBPG sourced names as well for consistency's sake, since as LTL mentioned the English Encyclopedia's names here are direct translations of the Japanese ones and have basically zero chance of citogenesis (there's also the fact that the sourced Prima guide has a pretty blatant printing error where it forgets to specify what level of Turtle Zone it's talking about, which is how we got Turtle Zone (level)).

Proposer: Snessy (talk)
Deadline: May 31, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Use the Encyclopedia level names for every level including non-SGBPG sourced names, fix Root/Tree Trunk Course switchup

1. Snessy (talk) Per proposal.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) Sounds fair to us. Per proposal.
3. Arend Zone Level 3 (talk) I think this will make the naming feel more consistent. Because as it currently stands, we have courses with unique names like Fiery Mario–Special Agent and Mario the Circus Star!... and then we have Pumpkin Zone Level 2 and Pumpkin Zone Level 3...
4. Rykitu Secret Course (talk) Per Arend.
5. EvieMaybe (talk) per MarioWiki:Naming: "Exceptions include naming errors, translation errors, and use of aliases/nicknames. (...) It is up to the users to find and determine what the naming errors, translation errors, and use of aliases/nicknames are". if they made an obvious mistake with Tree Trunk Course, we don't have to play along and pretend they're actually right because they're an ~official source~.
6. Blinker (talk) Per proposal.
7. Jdtendo (talk) Per Arend and EvieMaybe.
8. Cadrega96 (talk) Per all.

Use the Encyclopedia level names for every level including non-SGBPG sourced names, do not fix Root/Tree Trunk Course switchup

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) Primary; I can agree with treating the recent level names as a package deal, like we do with SMB3, but this one oddity reminds me a lot of DKL, and I'd rather this be consistent with how that's currently handled.

Use the Encyclopedia level names only for SGBPG sourced names, do not fix Root/Tree Trunk Course switchup

1. Hewer (talk) It's not our job to "fix" official naming, we're just here to report on it. I held the same stance in this discussion. I'd much rather we consistently enforced our policy of using official names than decided that these particular official names aren't good enough. Also, since the Encyclopedia is (basically) the lowest priority source in the naming policy, it shouldn't be taking priority over any other source's names. The only reason it could get priority over the SGBPG is because those aren't really names for the levels anyway. So, this is the option that is most consistent with our naming policies.
2. LinkTheLefty (talk) Secondary; what Hewer said.

Keep the current names

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) Tertiary; of course, if we do this, it bypasses the whole Tree Zone issue, and the way that they're listed next to the level numbers reminds me of the early SMB2/3 guides.

Final Boss: The Comment Section

Wha- You do realize you could've edited your previous proposal since it was still within the four days since its creation (as per rule 17), right? Not sure if losing seven unanimous voters is really worth cancelling the old proposal and redoing it, but okay... rend (talk) (edits) 06:07, May 17, 2025 (EDT)

I did consider that, but since this proposal contains more specific options than the previous one I didn't know in which category the votes I had already gotten would go. Snessy (talk) 06:38, May 17, 2025 (EDT)

@EvieMaybe: The part of the naming policy you're quoting is specifically about name changes. Applying it to this situation would at most mean that "Roots Course" uses its older name of "Tree Zone Level 2". The policy does not suggest ignoring the only official English name we have (as would be the case with Tree Trunk Course, as far as I can tell), and it certainly does not say we can use names that were never officially used to refer the subject. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 12:44, May 17, 2025 (EDT)

that is true, but i think the essence of "if we're smart enough to realize something is a mistake, we're also smart enough to not play along with it" applies to both. — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 22:19, May 17, 2025 (EDT)