Talk:Ken (Street Fighter)

Merge into List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Keep Ken's article and create an article for E. Honda 5-9-0
His only appearance in Super Mario medias, outside the Super Smash Bros. series, is a single panel in a comic. His role in the story is just as minor as E. Honda's, and the latter doesn't have his own article. Therefore, I believe Ken should only be in a section of the article List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
First edit : as proposed by Arend, I added an option to create an article for E. Honda.
Second edit : for clarification, my main issue isn't that it's inconsistent to have an article for Ken but not for E. Honda doesn't, but it's that Ken's role in this comic is too minor to allow him to have an article on this wiki. I only talked about E. Honda for comparison.

Proposer: Brett (talk)
Deadline: June 8, 2026, 23:59 (UTC) Extended to June 15, 2026, 23:59 (UTC)

Support

1. Brett (talk) Per proposal.
2. Hewer (talk) Per my comment. Ken and E. Honda both appear in only a single panel of the comic and have no role except sharing a speech bubble with three other characters. In contrast, the other four Street Fighter characters (Zangief, Chun-Li, Blanka, and Dhalsim) appear in multiple panels and have an actual role in the comic's plot, as all of them fight Mario in the tournament. I don't really think it's fair for this single-panel cameo to warrant an article when more involved stuff like WarioWare microgame appearances, Mystery Mushroom costumes, and animated movie intros don't.
3. Okapii (talk) Per Hewer, a one-panel cameo shouldn't warrant a full article imo.
4. Dive Rocket Launcher (talk) Per all. Ken isn't plot-relevant like other SF characters are, so he does not "make at least one appearance within the Super Mario franchise that is playable, interactable, or plot-relevant".
5. Wilben (talk) Per Hewer and Dive Rocket Launcher.

Oppose (Create an article for E. Honda)

1. R. Ohbee (talk) Per the proposal that split it in the first place, and particularly Tails777, Shadow2, and Camwoodstock's votes.
2. Rykitu (talk) Per R.O.B. and the comments.
3. Illuminoid (talk) Per all.
4. LinkTheLefty (talk) Some of the list entries are bit of a misnomer, and if they didn't "debut" there, then they didn't debut there. I'm also fine with giving an article to a character who had a similar role.
5. Shadow2 (talk) We just undid him being merged into that page and now you want to undo the undo? We give a full page to Dhalsim, Chun-Li and Blanka, and should probably give one to E. Honda too. Ken deserves one more than they do.
6. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
7. ILoveBFDI1215 (talk) We're doing this again? I was literally the person who requested his page be separated. If characters like Slime and Chucky have pages who only appear in two and piece of Mario media then there's no reason Ken can't have a page.
8. Axii (talk) Per all
9. Nelsonic (talk) Per.

Comments (Move to the list of SSBU fighter)

The proposal that got Ken split, for reference. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:09, May 25, 2026 (UTC)

The proposer argued that Ken deserves to have his own page because the other fighters appearing in this comic does, but that not really a good argument. Unlike Zangief, Chun-Li, Blanka and Dhalsim, Ken doesn't contribute meaningfully to the plot since he doesn't fight Mario. Notice how E. Honda is the only other one to appears in the comic without fighting Mario, and yet he doesn't have his own page ? Brett (talk) 12:52, May 25, 2026 (UTC)

To be fair, Shadow2 stated in that very same proposal that it's weird to leave out not only Ken, but E. Honda as well. Maybe also include an option to make an E. Honda article? rend (talk) (edits) 12:55, May 25, 2026 (UTC)

Also in that proposal, it was unanimously agreed that Captain Falcon being in one panel of a comic wasn't enough to give him an article. And similarly, Ken and E. Honda only appear in one panel in this comic and don't fight Mario or otherwise contribute to the plot, unlike the other four Street Fighter characters that appear. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 15:02, May 25, 2026 (UTC)

Ken has a speaking role, Captain Falcon does not. Shadow2 (talk) 14:07, May 30, 2026 (UTC)

A "speaking role" that consists of a single speech bubble shared with four other characters. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 10:48, May 31, 2026 (UTC)

Maybe Captain Falcon can get an article. ILoveBFDI1215 (talk) 02:19, June 11, 2026 (UTC)

By the way, if this article does stay split, it should be moved to "Ken (Street Fighter)" rather than "Ken Masters". I don't think he's ever referred to by name in the comic (and even if he was, it would be low priority due to being a non-English source), so the only Mario-related appearance to name him is Smash, in which his name is just "Ken". Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 17:58, May 25, 2026 (UTC)

@LinkTheLefty: I don't think I fully understand your vote reasoning. You seem to be referring to the fact that the titles of the fighter list articles use the word "debuting", even though that's obviously referring to when they debuted in Smash as "fighters", not when they debuted as characters overall. Almost all Smash fighters didn't debut as characters in Smash. Even if there was a problem with the titles (which I don't see that there is), how does that even relate to this proposal? Why would splitting Ken help to solve this? Surely the solution would be to just rename the articles?
@Shadow2; Why does Ken "deserve" an article more than the characters who actually have a role in the comic's plot? We're meant to be judging this based on the characters' relevance to Mario. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 10:58, May 31, 2026 (UTC)

@ILoveBFDI1215: Slime is playable in three Mario games, while Ken appeared in a single panel of a single comic. How are they comparable? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 00:14, June 11, 2026 (UTC)

I don't mean to be rude, but I wonder if there should be some kind of process for removing votes that are poorly justified... this is a pretty glaring flaw in the argument, and the voter hasn't said or done anything about it. Dive Rocket Launcher 08:31, June 13, 2026 (UTC)

I know I'm late on this and I hate that I forgot about it to put a reply on her, but Ken is more well known than the slime. Don't have that much to say about it. ILoveBFDI1215 (talk) 02:09, June 16, 2026 (UTC)

That wouldn't be relevant even if it was true. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 09:47, June 16, 2026 (UTC)

Merge into List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate II: The World Warrior

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: August 17, 2026, 11:20 (UTC)

Nearly two months ago, it has been decided by the proposal above that Ken's article should be kept and an article for E. Honda should be created. I found the arguments to keep the article flawed, and nobody bothered to create an article for E. Honda yet. This is why I believe we should re-decide if Ken really deserves to have his own article or if he should only be a section in the List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. The reason why I made the original proposal is because his only Super Mario-related appearance outside the Super Smash Bros. series is too minor, being a single panel in a German Club Nintendo comic, where he shares a speech bubble with four other characters.
Edit : I admit that saying that E. Honda's article had not been made yet as an argument for my proposal is disingenuous as in this wiki the proposer is the one who is expected to implement the proposal's outcome (unless they don't have a role that allows them to do the necessary changes), but the proposal didn't initially had this option, as I only added it when one user suggested it in the comments.

Proposer: Brett (talk)
Deadline: August 27, 2026, 23:59 (UTC)

Merge

1. Brett (talk) Per proposal.
2. Wandering Poplin (talk) For full disclosure, I am not exactly very familiar with the Street Fighter series, which may mean that my vote might partly be uninformed in some regards. Nonetheless, I do not feel that a minor non-speaking cameo in a comic and a tangential appearance in a game where "Everyone is here!" should be enough justification for this character to have an entire separate article, and I do not find the points raised by the opposition thus far (in either proposal) to be particularly convincing. In the case of the E. Honda example in particular, it actually seems to strengthen the points made against this article more than anything else.
3. Hewer (talk) Per my vote last time. I feel the opposition in the previous proposal did not do a good job at addressing the supporters' arguments. I still don't get how someone could read the comic in question and come away thinking Ken's one-panel cameo makes him more relevant to the Mario franchise than, say, anyone who's appeared as a Mystery Mushroom costume or in a WarioWare microgame.
4. Okapii (talk) Per Hewer, redux.
5. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per all.
6. Mr. Sorbetti (talk) Hewer and Wandering Poplin got me here.
7. Fakename123 (talk) It seems the only thing Ken has going for him is his single (shared) speaking role. Captain Falcon isn't split despite his other Super Mario-related appearances. Neither are characters like Jason Voorhees from "Super Mario in Die Nacht des Grauens" who actually contribute to the plot of their story. I just don't think this cameo is substantial enough to warrant Ken having his own article.
8. Yoshi18 (talk) Per all, especially Wandering Poplin, Hewer and Fakename123.
9. Wilben (talk) Per all. As Dive Rocket Launcher mentioned in the previous proposal, Ken is not "playable, interactable, or plot-relevant", as is the requirement for crossover characters.

Keep

1. Nelsonic (talk) Per.
2. Ahemtoday (talk) My own thoughts on what should or should not get a page are pretty generous. I don't really think the length of a page determines whether or not it should exist, just whether it's within the scope of the wiki. Maybe I'm only saying that because, between Mario is Missing and some rhythm games, making pages for things on this wiki that are undoubtedly within our scope but difficult to talk about for a lengthy period of time is kind of my "thing" on this wiki, if I could be said to have one. I think there's value in an E. Honda page just for the sake of directly acknowledging he shows up in Mario media, because it's interesting that he does in the same way that it's interesting that Tiananmen Square does or Losing My Religion does. I also agree with Camwoodstock.
3. Iand255 (talk) Per all. This page, in my mind, makes complete sense under the coverage policy. Ken is in multiple pieces of Mario related media, he is a playable character in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, which is a game we cover pretty heavily beyond just the Super Mario franchise, which applies to the Super Smash Bros. series as a whole as per policy, and one of the pieces of media he appeared in (the comic) is directly part of the Super Mario franchise. I see no reason why he shouldn't have his own page. The rest of the characters in the comic, including E. Honda, really have no place in this argument at all since they aren't a playable character in any Super Mario related media period.

#Mr. Sorbetti (talk) Per Camwoodstock. #Camwoodstock (talk) ...This is kind of why we hate the stigma of "when it comes to implementing proposals, it's generally assumed the author must be the one to implement it when it passes". Because, that's kind of an unspoken assumption, and considering the crux of this proposal hinges on "well, E. Honda's page still doesn't exist, so clearly something's wrong with the original proposal!"... you can kind of see the problem with that as an assumption? E. Honda has been the most wanted page for awhile now, it's not that nobody thinks he deserves it, it's just that we reckon most people were assuming something that, evidently, wasn't the original plan.

Comments (Move to the list of SSBU fighter II)

Reiterating a point from the previous proposal: why do Ken and E. Honda get their own articles, but Captain Falcon doesn't? All three of them have the same role of appearing in one panel of a Club Nintendo comic, and not speaking or contributing to the story in any way. I feel that if the other two have their own pages, Captain Falcon should as well. Fakename123 (talk) 17:15, August 13, 2026 (UTC)

@Camwoodstock: I wouldn't say the lack of an E. Honda article is the "crux" of this proposal's argument, just something brought up as an aside. You haven't really made any argument in your vote as to why Ken and E. Honda should have articles. (The "most wanted page" thing is a bit of a meaningless argument, it's just because E. Honda was added as the sole red link in a pretty big navbox.) Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:42, August 13, 2026 (UTC)

Very true. And additionally, in terms of E. Honda, I don't really see what use we would even have for the page at this point, other than to fill in the various red links.

Considering the short length of the the comic's own minimal coverage on this page, as noted in my comment below, I imagine having an entire page dedicated to a character with a similarly unnoteworthy role, but without any additional SSBU info to rely on, would simply lead to a stub article which we would've otherwise likely ended up deleting anyway. Wandering Poplin (talk) 20:30, August 13, 2026 (UTC)

See, our problem with bringing up E. Honda's lack of a page as an additional reason to merge is that... Obviously he doesn't have a page, the person behind the original proposal never wrote it. And because the assumption on a community level is that the author of the proposal is going to be the one to write these pages, it feels really, really disingenuous to bring up the absence of that page up unless the author, themselves, never wanted to write the page in the first place, which... Probably should've been conveyed in the first place, in the original proposal? And the fact that part of this proposal is based on an assumption nobody was really told about does kind of rub us the wrong way. ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 23:13, August 13, 2026 (UTC)

Is this genuinely your only reason for opposing? You've again made no effort to actually argue for why Ken and E. Honda articles should exist. The proposal's main argument isn't the fact that no one's made the E. Honda page yet, it's that the characters' presence in the Mario franchise is too minor (appearing in a group image in one panel of a comic without any contribution to the plot) and that the opposition arguments last time weren't very good. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 09:47, August 14, 2026 (UTC)

We mean, our opinion hasn't really changed since the original proposal that split Ken; we feel like if the other Street Fighter fighters from the comic got split, it seems only fair to split him (and E. Honda by proxy, though we didn't actually vote in that middle proposal.) We admittedly don't feel that strongly about E. Honda, but the fact the proposal argues that one of the reasons to merge Ken and not make the page for E. Honda is "nobody made the page for E. Honda", when that task is usually assumed to be down to the original proposer of such a page's creation... And that proposer is now making a separate proposal to not have do it, seemingly unaware of the fact there's expectations for them to do it in the first place... Admittedly, it's very petty of us, but it does rub us the wrong way, if that makes any sense? ^^; ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 16:40, August 15, 2026 (UTC)

Here is the comic. Your original vote reasoning argued that Ken "played an actually important role in the comic", which is simply false. He and E. Honda appear as a cameo in a single panel among a group of Street Fighter characters. This is unlike the other four Street Fighter characters from the comic, who actually have a role in the story (they each fight Mario). This is also why Ken and E. Honda have to be a package deal, since their role (or lack thereof) in the comic is exactly the same. There's no room to argue we should split Ken but not E. Honda.
Also, just look at the current state of this article. It's a bunch of Smash Bros. information plus an extra couple sentences about a comic that don't even describe his role in it (because he barely has one). It's the kind of thing that would fit just fine in a Smash fighters list. Actually, there are lots of Smash fighters we've merged who could have much more substantial articles than this: Pit has cameos in seven pieces of Mario media (including a comic cameo much like Ken's), Falco has a good handful, the Ice Climbers, etc. Ken would be pretty far down on the list of Smash fighters worth splitting for their non-Smash cameos. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 17:28, August 15, 2026 (UTC)

Quite true. If this page didn't have any Super Smash Bros. Ultimate info, which as previously acknowledged, comprises nearly 89% of this page's content, it wouldn't even be article-worthy at all. All that the page could really say is:

• "Ken Masters, better known as simply Ken, is one of the central characters of Capcom's Street Fighter series. He is the best friend and rival to Ryu and uses improved Ansatsuken techniques to fight. He cameos in an issue of the German Club Nintendo magazine, within a 1992 comic titled "Super Mario Klemp-Won-Do: Muskeln sind nicht alles!", alongside features various characters from the Street Fighter series."

That is the situation which E. Honda would be in if he received a page.

I'll concede that a more transparent attempt should have been made to create the E. Honda first before starting this proposal, but as far as the current situation goes... there's little point to try and do so, because it would almost certainly end up being a worse version of this page, and I have little reason to realistically believe otherwise.

Another point worth noting is that the disclaimer at the bottom of the "Crossover characters" template says "The above characters and species pertain to other media franchises, but make at least one appearance within the Super Mario franchise that is playable, interactable, or plot-relevant, excluding WarioWare microgames and television commercials."

...Would someone care to explain how Ken falls into that criteria at all? (Not counting Super Smash Bros.) Wandering Poplin (talk) 18:42, August 15, 2026 (UTC)

Another critical aspect of this page's problems which I haven't seen any sufficient counterarguments for, is the very fact that this page's coverage of the very comic this entire argument hinges on is practically a footnote compared to the SSBU coverage, easily revealing what the true allegiances of this page actually are. Two entire sentences, and nothing more. Whereas every other aspect of the page is clearly predominately SSBU focused.

This means that, essentially, the page is not an article about a crossover character who also appears in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, it is effectively an article about a SSBU fighter who also made a very minor cameo in another piece of Mario media through pure coincidence. Wandering Poplin (talk) 19:58, August 13, 2026 (UTC)

I think it should be worth pointing out that the reason E. Honda has been very "wanted" recently might be primarily because of him being linked in Template:Crossover characters, rather than because he is at all relevant in several articles, if any. Wilben (talk • edits) 07:26, August 16, 2026 (UTC)

I'm not voting (like last time), but I'd also like to say I find it kind of funny that the previous proposal's outcome hinged on the fact that I reminded people that another user also requested E. Honda to get his own article as well, and that it should've probably been an option. I did not think that it would've actually won out in the end, I merely thought it was only fair to include it. rend (talk) (edits) 12:26, August 16, 2026 (UTC)

@Iand255: We don't give characters articles just for being fighters in Smash, because Smash is not considered a Mario game. Hence why we instead cover most Smash fighters in list pages, splitting them only when they have made a major appearance in Mario media outside of Smash. That's why the argument to give Ken an article hinges only on this comic. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:20, August 17, 2026 (UTC)