Talk:Fighter Fly

(First topic)

Dont u guys think we should use the SML artwork of fighter flies instead of the mario bros one. The SML one is the newest one.--[User:16-Volt 14:30, 11 November 2011 (EST)

If by SML you mean Super Mario Land, then no. It's not that I don't think it is a good idea, but it isn't the newest. The Superstar Saga one is the newest. But we should change it to something newer. M&L (talk)

I would definitely say that is not so much a grinning face as either a grimacing or leering one, from the original Mario Bros. game. -- Somarinoa (talk) 01:51, 21 April 2015 (EDT)

Split "Fly (Super Mario Land)" from Fighter Fly

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Split Fly (Super Mario Land) from Fighter Fly 11-0

From top to bottom: Fighter Fly, "Haemaru," and "Fūrai." The lattermost one looks quite different.

In the seminal Mario Bros., developed by Nintendo Research & Development 1, there are primarily three different types of enemies that can be hit from underneath the floor: one of them, and the primary subject of this talk page's article, is Fighter Fly. In Japan, it typically has gone by the name ファイターフライ (Faitā Furai), which is a transliteration of the same name used in English, but it has also occasionally gone by a couple of other names rooted in フライ (furai, "fly"). The fly enemy in the Mario Bros.-inspired Battle Mode of Super Mario All-Stars and Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga is referred to by a more distinct name, ハエまる (Haemaru). In English, at least for the latter, NoA localized the enemy as Fighter Fly. (A different syllabary is exercised in Superstar Saga, but is pronounced the same way.) This proposal does not make an attempt to scrutinize whether Faitā Furai and Haemaru are the same exact subjects: The Japanese character compendium Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten treats them seperately, but the illustrations for each of them clearly were made to invoke a connection, and the original Famicom release of Super Mario Bros. 3 calls the enemy ファイターフライ (Faitā Furai), the same name from the arcade cabinet and the Famicom port of Mario Bros. Regardless, both Japanese names are applied to a hopping fly enemy associated with underground sewers invocative of the the 1983 arcade game created by Nintendo R&D1. Outside of turn-based RPG gameplay of Superstar Saga, they are attacked the same way as well.

The Fly enemy in Super Mario Land is in a different situation. It is a hopping enemy similar to the arcade fly enemies, though its head can be jumped on. It is illustrated with a toothy grin, similar to the sprite work of the fly enemies in the original Mario Bros., but the illustration is distinctly different from the the ones created for Fighter Fly and Haemaru in the Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten, in which it is also included and similarly considered a different subject from them. Fighter Flies are not even mentioned in the description of this enemy in the book, a departure from other enemy entries like that of Snifit (which mention Shy Guys) or Haemaru itself (which mentions its arcade counterparts). This enemy is not encountered in any context comparable to the original Mario Bros., instead appearing above-ground in the desert world.

Additionally, the Super Mario Land enemy is called フーライ (Fūrai), an original derivation of フライ (furai). This name has only been used for the Super Mario Land enemy, and never for the arcade ones. In tracking down citations for Fighter Fly's names, I could not find a single source that referred to this Super Mario Land enemy as "Fighter Fly," be it in Japanese or any other language. Given Super Mario Land was created by Nintendo R&D1 (the same studio that created the original Mario Bros.), was published six months after the Japanese release of Super Mario Bros. 3 (which refers to its fly enemy as "Fighter Fly" on page 27), and includes returning enemies with their original Japanese names intact, I do not think we have reason to think this was in error. フーライ (Fūrai) is the name of the Super Mario Land fly enemy in the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia and Mario Portal, as well, so they have had plenty of opportunities to amend this. But they have not. Based on these details, as well as the fact that Super Mario Land already includes new enemies "related" to previous ones like Goombo and Bombshell Koopa, I think the whole assertion that this fly is literally the same subject as Fighter Fly was an (understandable) mistake.

I offer two options:

1. Split Fly (Super Mario Land) from Fighter Fly. While not an original name, "Fly" is the only attested English name for this enemy. It is in the instruction booklet, the 3DS eGuide, the English version of the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia, and Mario Portal. All info pertaining to this specific enemy, such as the info in Super Mario-kun, would split off into this article as well.
2. Leave them merged.

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: May 31st, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: Split "Fly (Super Mario Land)" from Fighter Fly

1. Arend (talk) If I'm being honest... I have no idea why these are being merged in the first place. At least Pakkun Flower over there shares literally everything but English name with Piranha Plant.
2. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.
3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - This is a relic from the wiki's early days. Even though even then, "Chibibo" was split from Goomba. (Granted, I'm still not entirely convinced that the MLSS thing is meant to be the same as the arcade enemy either since it also looks quite different, though the smile does look similar to the original sprites.)
4. LinkTheLefty (talk) Eh, sure. If even Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia calls it a Fly, it's probably not a Fighter Fly.
5. Hewer (talk) Sounds reasonable.
6. Blinker (talk) Per proposal.
7. Platform (talk) Per proposal.
8. Xiahou Ba, The Nasty Warrior (talk) Per all.
9. EvieMaybe (talk) and all the wikis say i'm pretty fly (for a Fūrai!)
10. Camwoodstock (talk) We made our support for this very clear when it was first mentioned in the Discord, and our thought process hasn't changed from what was mentioned in the proposal. Fly high, little guy!
11. Pseudo (talk) Per all.

Comments: dipteran discourse

I always thought merging Super Mario Land info was strange, but is there no way that this is akin to the simplification of Shellcreepers and Sidesteppers to turtles and crabs in certain home ports (until Super Smash Bros. Brawl eventually resurrected the arcade names)? Also, FYI on Haemaru - Super Mario Advance reuses the Super Mario All-Stars designs and the Super Smash Bros. trophies consider them to be the same as the arcade Mario Bros. enemies, so the alternate Collection names feel like a short-lived, failed Grinder/Ukiki-esque split. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:00, May 17, 2025 (EDT)

While not unreasonable to suggest, I'm not swayed by the idea that the enemy's name in Super Mario Land is a simplification of "Fighter Fly" because the name is not literally フライ (Furai, "fly") in the 1989 Super Mario Land booklet (rather than "Kame" for turtle or "Kani" crab), and as mentioned and linked to above, the 1988 Super Mario Bros. 3 booklet displays the full name for Fighter Fly, as does the 1983 booklet for the Famicom port of Mario Bros. on page 5. They had no qualms with using the full name of "Fighter Fly" in the 80s and 90s. Maybe if there was more time between the material I mention above or a major discrepancy, I would be more cautious, but at this point I think the burden is on the Japanese publisher to release something that explicitly states th fly from Mario Bros. and Super Mario Land are the same enemy.

Again, this proposal does not seek to split Haemaru from Fighter Fly. The very inclusion of an enemy by that name in Superstar Saga and other Mario Bros.-based iconography seems to be in reference to the Mario Bros. game it was packaged with for multiplayer play. However, I would caution against using Smash Bros. as indication that Fighter Fly and Haemaru are the same ontological subject because the fly isn't called that in the Mario Bros.-part of the package (which is what I believe Smash Bros. is referring to) - it is only called Haemaru in the turn-based battles of Superstar Saga, in which it also has a different design from the one in the Mario Bros. port. On page 37 of the Japanese booklet for Superstar Saga, one can see that it is simply called フライ (Furai, "fly").

To reiterate, I am not proposing we split Haemaru from Fighter Fly. I just caution against using Smash Bros. to substantiate that point. - Nintendo101 (talk) 15:53, May 17, 2025 (EDT)

Specifically, they refer to Super Mario Advance - the first instance of GBA Mario Bros. - not Mario & Luigi. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:03, May 17, 2025 (EDT)