Talk:Brighton

(First topic)

There are two of the same picture of Brighton, this one Image:MP6Sun.PNG and this one Image:Brighton.jpg. Shouldn't one be deleted? Maybe we should keep the one with the better file format? CrystalYoshi 11:42, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

...

why is the image big? did TheRoul do something? someone fix it.
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Astro-Lanceur (talk).

Merge Brighton and Twila into one page

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Do not merge 1-11
We have a number of characters who exist as a pair and share a single page, such as Kat and Ana, or Henry and Orville, or similar to these two, Firebrand and Thunderhand, because they don't have enough unique information on their own to warrant having their own full page to themselves. I propose that Brighton and Twila become one of these pairs. Think about it... these two are basically identical in most things. The only real significant difference is one is the sun and one is the moon. They sometimes do a few small things differently from one another on some of the boards (such as Faire Square) but at the end of the day I think that all of this information is able to be conveyed just fine on a single page.

Proposer: Shadow2 (talk)
Deadline: November 27, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on November 20, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: Make a "Brighton and Twila" page

1. Shadow2 (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose: Keep separate

1. PrincessPeachFan (talk): Kat and Ana and Henry and Orville are interchangeable. These two have wildly different personalities.
2. Martendo (talk) Per PrincessPeachFan.
3. Rykitu (talk) Per PrincessPeachFan.
4. Tails777 (talk) Per PrincessPeachFan and Mario's comments below.
5. Sorbetti (talk) Per PrincessPeachFan and Mario.
6. Mario, the original Star Bank proposer (talk) See comment below. i.e. the game Brighton and Twila are in revolves around their separation and they host their own modes to themselves. Unlike other articles dealing with paired characters, they're not often seen together barring like Party Mode (where once they glance at each other they just frown and walk away, they are together in the end of Party Mode tho) and Speak Up.
7. Cloudwalker (talk) Per Mario.
8. Nintendo101 (talk) As relayed by LeftyGreenMario, there is greater spatial and gameplay-related separation between Brighton and Twila. Being related does not necessarily mean they are intrinsic to one another and would benefit from a merged article.
9. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all. When the two characters are so expressly different, and the game regularly calls attention to how different they are, it doesn't feel right to merge these two.
10. Jdtendo (talk) Per all.
11. Dive Rocket Launcher (talk) Per all, these characters aren't inseparable in the same way Kat & Ana and MC Ballyhoo & Big Top are.

Comments (Sun vs. Moon debate)

What helps Brighton and Twila apart is that the game is designed around their separation and conflict versus the other characters. The main menu itself is split between Brighton and Twila, with west having Brighton enter and host; east having Twila enter and host, and center has both of them host. However, the game emphasizes they're not together, through box design, menu design, music themes (there are day versions and night versions for all boards and all menus), and various game mechanics. The main mode, Party Mode, has them switch day and night every 3 turns so often you're seeing one but not the other; i.e. when it's day you're not seeing Twila at all and vice versa at night (this affects if you're seeing one or the other in Clockwork Castle and Faire Square, like in Clockwork Castle if it's daytime, one Happening Space will work, the other at the other side won't, just because Brighton is present at his house and Twila isn't present at her house). This extends to Last Five Turns Event and minigame preview screens that show one or the other depending on the time of the day. Whenever they're together, such as when you're playing Party Mode, they try to walk away from each other (barring Speak Up I guess). Most of what they actually do is tied to more events happening daytime vs nighttime, to be fair, but I think in terms of gameplay and narrative, they're treated like they're separate, two characters that can't stand each other and Mario and his friends have to mend the difference.

The examples by support votes are flawed, because Firebrand and Thunderhand have different personalities (and they're merged probably because so are Starshade Bros. and Jellyfish Sisters and Cork and Cask and Hammerhead Bros. to keep the Mario/Luigi theme Superstar Saga was going for), and Ashley and Red; and Cricket and Mantis, who used to be merged but got split because of gameplay not because of personality (Dribble & Spitz also seem to be like two different characters, see proposal; and you can use that same logic to split MC Ballyhoo & Big Top by the way). I feel these pairings are pretty much glued together and are dependent on each other as best friends. Mario Party 6 on the other hand... casts them as two former friends who need to be brought together again.

You can argue that their relationship is a given plotpoint and they're dependent on each other for Mario Party 6's design to function; therefore their pages should be merged but from ways their information can be parsed adequately separately (see the substantial amount of assets dedicated to one or the other, this includes quotes that are yet to be filled out but Brighton and Twila have their own set of lines on the same event, but they often don't commentate at the same time the way Ballyhoo and Big Top do), I do think keeping them split is an option I prefer over merging. At the end of the day, the difference between them is like day and night. Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 22:08, November 13, 2025 (EST)

It seems to me like these two pages would have to undergo a revision if this proposal fails, because a lot of the counterpoints aren't really addressed adequately in the pages themselves. Currently on Brighton's page, it only address a scant few details that make him unique from Twila: He controls the sun, he is the host of certain modes, and he has a particular style of speech. The rest of the page talks about them as a duo, or talks about things that are the same between them (the fact that they're fighting, their powers). Dribble and Spitz have vastly different personalities (@PrincessPeachFan), they're different species from one another, and in general they're just "different" from each other (@Camwoodstock), yet they share a page. All three of those points have been given as reasons for keeping these two separate, so I'm sensing an inconsistency here. I also don't really understand what you're trying to say @Mario because it seems like you basically said "Firebrand and Thunderhand won't split because they have different personalities, but the general counterargument seems to be "Brighton and Twila should be split because of their vastly different personalities". If it were up to me, personally, I would give each character their own page (Henry, Orville, Dribble, Spitz, Ashley, Red, etc...) but because we have this precedent for having some duos be merged, I believe these two are a perfect candidate to be a merged duo. Are they opposed to one another? Yes they are, but I don't believe that's a strong enough reason for them to be separate pages. The central point of these two is their disagreement, which I think is easily and adequately able to be explained on a single duo page. I don't really think "Brighton is on the left of the main menu and Twila is on the right" as reason enough for them to be separate, nor the fact that they switch places every 3 turns. I also don't think them "not being friends" is reason enough to keep them separate. If you want to use their specific board events as reasoning to keep them separate, then those board events need to be covered on their pages. Shadow2 (talk) 23:04, November 13, 2025 (EST)

I was criticizing more the logic of PrincessPeachFan's reasoning, because I was saying, applying his logic that personalities determine a split, this would mean Firebrand and Thunderhand would be split, and I wouldn't agree to that either. As for the menu screen, it's not that they're placed that way, but the modes you select has either one or both of them go inside. So all modes you select on the west has only Brighton go inside, all modes on the east is Twila, and two modes in the middle have both. This means Brighton is the host of the Mic and Solo modes (again excluding like Speak Up in Mic mode), and Twila hosts the minigame and the options modes. Furthermore, Twila hosts most modes within the minigame mode, so she's the one driving the bus in Free Play, she's hosting decathlon, she's hosting Endurance Alley, and so on. The primary issues you're having with the pages is that they don't convey information, so I believe the remedy is to expand them, not merge them. Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 23:17, November 13, 2025 (EST)

@PrincessPeachFan, @Martendo, @Rykitu, @Tails777, @Sorbetti: Being "interchangeable" is NOT what brings pages like Kat & Ana or Henry and Orville together at all: it's the fact that they're (almost) ALWAYS seen together. Like how there was this recent proposal to merge Sam Shalam and Slammer together because they were never seen separate, and to say an Honest John-type of flying carpet salesman and his snarky carpet beater sidekick are anything alike, let alone "interchangeable", couldn't be further from the truth. Shadow2 also brought up Dribble & Spitz as an example of a duo that are also vastly different, which I agree with as well. In fact, I would go a step further and argue that Kat & Ana are not "interchangeable" either! Kat (the pink-haired one) is bossy and sometimes a bit of a bully towards Ana, whereas Ana (the orange-haired one) is more reserved and emotional. To say they're exactly alike to the point they're "interchangeable", shows a distinct lack of understanding or appreciation for these characters. "Oh, they're twins and they look alike, so they MUST be interchangeable!" Okay, then why don't we have Mario and Luigi merged it that's all it takes to merge character pages? rend (talk) (edits) 01:11, November 14, 2025 (EST)

Yes, but as Mario points out, they also have separate host duties. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:59, November 14, 2025 (EST)

We're not talking about Mario's reason here; we're talking about yours. My point is that your reason, and the same reasoning four others are agreeing to, really makes no sense and is easily debunked when you take other duo character pages into account. In fact, I would suggest you and the others I mentioned to change your reasoning to per Mario instead, if you still plan to oppose the proposal; as her reasoning to oppose the proposal is more logical in comparison to yours. rend (talk) (edits) 15:40, November 14, 2025 (EST)

It's definitely not the main reason, but it is one of them, especially knowing that Kat and Ana and Henry and Orville are twins, which makes them extremely similar in appearance, and they don't have much to say about themselves to justify their own page. I know that another reason for these groups is that if the characters almost always appear together, it means that the information for both can be combined on a single page to avoid repeating the same thing on two different pages. Another reason is the amount of information and its similarity. Firebrand and Thunderhand, despite having different personalities, are still similar, they both look alike, both are spirits, both teach things, both are in a palace, and they really don't have much information of their own, so having a page for both of them isn't useful since it would be monotonous in certain aspects. PrincessPeachFan's argument may need polishing (especially regarding Firebrand and Thunderhand), but it grouped the biggest flaw in the proposal early on before other votes, so I'm still keeping my vote, I'll add too per Mario since it's better explained. Sorbetti (talk) 16:22, November 14, 2025 (EST)

I agreed on the grounds that they had widely different personalities. And in the moment, I couldn't think of a reasoning of my own to add to it all. Henry and Orville are a bit more interchangeable (seeing as the game itself doesn't even fully specify which twin is which), though Kat and Ana are less interchangeable since they are their own characters with specific differences, but are together because of how they're never separated and, WarioWare: Get it Together being the main point, have identical gameplay. All that aside, Brighton and Twila having vastly different personalities is what I'm leaning on, though Mario at this point brings up just as many good points that I also agree with. Tails777 Talk to me!18:14, November 14, 2025 (EST)