Talk:Standard SG

Title?

When I played MKDS with download play, I didn't see any options to choose Characters/Karts so I didn't concluded with the name of Shy Guy's Kart. I have thought this name "Standard SG" is conceptual conjectual. Is this name from official source or something? odo2718 (talk) 22:10, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

perhaps I could try checking the filename of the kart and textures using that DS tool thing that I forgot the name of. But you're right, the name isn't shown in-game. Xiahou Ba^{(the Nasty Warrior)} 21:01, 9 October 2016 (EDT)

Merge to Standard Kart or Standard YS?

What we have here is a standard kart with identical stats to the Standard YS (building off Super Circuit's use of Yoshi copies for multiplayer) that is not given a name, an icon, a selector, or any ability to use outside of Download multiplayer mode - due to which, depending on how many are playing, there might be a whole bunch of them. It really just comes off as a basic, default stand-in for one of the "specific" karts than one of said specific karts itself, especially since it appears to be outright unpainted (or at least, only stock-painted). I get that it has a page in an attempt at consistency, but this kart is so inconsistent with everything else in the game (to the point that it causes the standard kart grouping to have a differing amount from the rest) that I'm not so sure if it's worth it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:44, June 10, 2024 (EDT)

eh, by that logic, merge almost every kart in tour together in one giant page then. its a separate kart with a separate name, colour, and criteria to ""unlock"" it, it should have its own page. - YoYo (Talk) 11:01, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

?????? This Kart has no name, it can't be "unlocked" or even selected, it's just a default, featureless kart for the download-play character. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:04, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

I'd prefer merging this to the Standard Kart page and pointing out the connection between it sharing the stats of Yoshi's Standard YS and Yoshis being the only playable characters in Mario Kart: Super Circuit's Single-Pak multiplayer there. It'd be a little awkward to cover a second, generic kart on the Standard YS's page (which would ironically, create another inconsistency for Mario Kart DS's karts). SolemnStormcloud (talk) 12:32, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

Merge Time

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Do not merge 6-11

This kart doesn't really have anything going for it. The best thing to do is to merge it with Standard Kart and make note of its similarities to the Standard YS and the Yoshi karts from Mario Kart: Super Circuit.

Proposer: PrincessPeachFan (talk)
Deadline: September 27, 2025, 23:59 GMT Extended to October 4, 2025, 23:59 GMT Extended to October 11, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Vroom-a-zoom-zoom! Support, Option 1

1. PrincessPeachFan (talk) Per proposal.
2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Conjectural name, basic, non-selectable stand-in kart. This kart is treated basically as the unmodified, unpainted "stock" Standard Kart for the game and thus splitting it is counter to the game's own system. It doesn't even have unique stats since it's shared with the Standard YS, so there's no functional uniqueness to it either. Having this split is no benefit to us, or to readers. It's just a case of fanon padding trying (and failing) for "consistency" from the wiki's early days and it needs put behind us. Also, it makes the MKDS page's kart lists in the MKDS inconsistent lengths for the purpose of something that's not meant to be seen as an additional item on the Standard Kart list anyway.
3. Hewer (talk) Leaning towards a merge here. This generic kart can't be selected and has no official identification or name of any kind, so I think it would be better off as just a sentence or two in the Standard Kart article explaining that Shy Guy also uses a Standard Kart when playing as him. I sort of understand the argument of consistency with the other Standard Karts in this game, but the thing is, this kart isn't consistent with the other karts in the game itself, so we don't have to try and make it consistent in our handling of it. (Also, if it does stay split, the title might be in need of a change. It tries to follow the pattern of Standard Kart names in the game, but conjectural names should be simple, straightforward, and lowercase.)
4. Blinker (talk) Per Hewer.
5. Setta3434 (talk) Per Doc and Hewer.
6. Martendo (talk) Per Doc and Hewer.

Hit the brakes! Oppose, Option 2

1. Camwoodstock (talk) In our opinion, a merge to the Yoshi pages is kind of absurd--if we can foresee having to explain "oh, we merge them to Yoshi specifically because of Super Circuit", it's a poor merge. If we really had to merge these anywhere, we'd probably just pick Standard Kart? (sorry we misread the proposal. but then also,) But honestly, we feel like this article, while inherently niche, is fine enough that a merge isn't necessary in the first place. (This much hasn't changed, even now that we realize that a merge to Standard Kart is, in fact, the plan here. It doesn't hurt to give this its own page even with how niche it is.)
2. Mario (talk) This article works fine on its own in spite of a conjectural name and shared stats. Just because it's limited in its availability and shares stats with another Standard Kart doesn't mean it's not its own concept. This is treated as a designated kart for a character exclusive for Download Play and not a recolor for an existing character, so it should be kept split. I see the analogy for the colored Yoshis from Mario Kart Super Circuit brought up, but that argument would work better if we had colored Yoshis for download play in Mario Kart DS.
3. Tails777 (talk) Per Mario. The Standard Karts in Mario Kart DS are treated as separate karts from each other, seeing as each and every one can be selected separately for each character once that option is unlocked. By extension, the Standard Kart for Shy Guy, while not able to be selected in single player, is still unique to him. The Pipe Frames in Super Circuit had no affect on statistics in the same way the Standard Karts did in DS, the characters were the deciding factor on stats. Sure, the kart shares stats with another kart, but given that it's still usable only by one character and no one else (and I guess the different color), I feel that's enough to keep them split in the face of every other kart that's split.
4. Daita (talk) Idk, but the standard SG also appears in Smash.
5. Standard YY (talk) per the reasons mentioned above.
6. Standard Kart XB (talk) Yeah.
7. Standard kart CL (talk) Per Mario, what insane idea are people gonna propose next, merging the wiggler wagon with wiggler?
8. Sorbetti (talk) If it doesn't bother anyone, shows unique and interesting information, and is unique to a single character, why should this be merged? Per all.
9. Jdtendo (talk) All other Mario Kart DS Standard Karts are split, and merging only this one with Standard Kart would be clunky.
10. A Dasher (Altendo) Per all.
11. Killer Moth (talk) Per all.

Comments (Pit Stop)

as someone not familiar with Mario Kart DS, could you explain the reasoning behind this proposal? — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 13:05, September 13, 2025 (EDT)

Shy Guy isn't normally available in Mario Kart DS, and he is a character players use in download play, which is not multiplayer with two cartridges, two systems, but one cartridge on a system and the other systems without the Mario Kart DS cartridge. The players without Mario Kart DS play as a Shy Guy rather than anyone else in the roster, and this Shy Guy can use only this kart, which is not named in the game compared to the other karts, but the conjectural title follows the naming scheme of all the standard karts (which all have their own sets of stats iirc). The stats for this kart is identical to a named kart in the base game, Standard YS, which is Yoshi's Standard Kart. I assume the proposal wants to merge the two karts (Standard Kart) on the basis of limited availability and shared stats and uses an analogy about the colored Yoshis from Mario Kart: Super Circuit also having similar limitations of download play. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:05, September 13, 2025 (EDT)

@Camwoodstock I'm pretty sure the proposal is about merging it to Standard Kart, NOT Standard YS.
TBH it is a bit weird why that isn't an option when that is the more discussed solution as opposed to just regular Standard Kart. rend (talk) (edits) 13:22, September 13, 2025 (EDT)

The conversation above seemed to imply a merge to Standard YS, and the proposal itself isn't exactly clear where it merges to. (Not that it matters, as, merge to Standard Kart, merge to Standard YS, it all resolves to "we don't think a merge is necessary"... ;P) ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 15:07, September 13, 2025 (EDT)

"The proposal itself isn't exactly clear where it merges to."
Literally the second sentence of the proposal: "The best thing to do is to merge it with Standard Kart and make note of its similarities to the Standard YS and the Yoshi karts from Mario Kart: Super Circuit."
rend (talk) (edits) 20:33, September 13, 2025 (EDT)

your honor we had just woken up. Fair, though, again, this doesn't change our vote much. ;P ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 20:49, September 13, 2025 (EDT)

@Arend: The proposal is to merge this with Standard Kart. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:01, September 14, 2025 (EDT)

@Mario: Sooooo, if we give this a page, should we give the Yoshi Karts from Super Circuit a page? PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:01, September 14, 2025 (EDT)

To me, that sounds downright absurd, as that situation is quite different from Standard SG here. With Standard SG, every other kart in Mario Kart DS is treated like a distinct kart, and NOT all treated the same, like future Standard Karts. When it comes to the Yoshi Pipe Frames, no distinction was made between ANY of the Pipe Frames, given that was the ONLY kart at the time. If we were to make an article for the Yoshi Pipe Frames, we'd have to do the same with literally every other Pipe Frame in the classic Mario Kart games, and maybe every other kart variation from future games too.
With Standard SG, I can understand why it has its own article, given that every other Standard Kart in DS have their own article as well. With the Yoshi Pipe Frames, I don't see the point, since none of the other Pipe Frames are split. rend (talk) (edits) 08:31, September 14, 2025 (EDT)

We seem to be losing track of the analogy a bit. I think the Super Circuit Yoshis were only brought up in the original discussion to explain why this kart shares stats with the Standard YS, as part of the argument that was being made to merge it with Standard YS. If we're merging with Standard Kart instead, it's not a relevant point. "The Yoshi Karts from Super Circuit" aren't even really a thing, the Yoshis just use the Pipe Frame (the same kart used by every character in that game). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:10, September 14, 2025 (EDT)

@Opposition: What Hewer is saying is that this kart can't be officially selected and doesn't have a name or designation of any kind and it's not consistent with the other karts because of that. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 11:31, September 15, 2025 (EDT)

My viewpoint is that this kart was designed for an exclusive character, ergo this is a separate page. If we had colored Yoshis for Mario Kart DS, which is based off an existing character from the Mario Kart DS roster, using a generic white kart, then I would argue keep merged to the Standard YS. But this kart was created and colored for a new character that appears only in Download Play, in tandem with Standard Karts were individually named, created and separately colored for every character in this game. A redirect and piped link is not ideal when it concerns information that works best when it is reasonably searchable especially when this asset received its own render. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 22:34, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

Soooooo, do we do the same thing for the Yoshi Karts from Super Circuit? PrincessPeachFan (talk) 07:38, September 18, 2025 (EDT)

I already TOLD YOU why that is an absurd idea, and so did Hewer. You think that whole Yoshi karts is a "gotcha" moment, but it's NOT, because unlike the Standard Karts in DS, none of the Karts in Super Circuit are ever treated as separate karts. They're ALL Pipe Frames. There's no Pipe Frame MR, or Pipe Frame LG, or Pipe Frame YS. So OF COURSE the Yoshi karts aren't gonna be split - NONE OF THE OTHERS WOULD EVER BE SPLIT EITHER! Meanwhile, Standard SG being split does make a bit of sense because ALL THE STANDARD KARTS in Mario Kart DS ARE split, due to ALL OF THEM having distinct names and stats. It's NOT the fact that the Yoshi karts in Super Circuit don't have a separate article that holds Standard SG back: it's the lack of an official name for that kart that holds it back. rend (talk) (edits) 04:48, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

@PrincessPeachFan: Please try to read and understand the points that other people are making. Constantly repeating the same bad argument after multiple people have explained why it's bad won't convince anyone to support the proposal.
@Arend: Please calm down a bit. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 07:44, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

...I'm sorry for flying off the handle like that. It's just that PrincessPeachFan tends to make such remarks and counterarguments that either seem (willfully) ignorant, bad-faith, or both, and I find myself getting infuriated at those the more I see it, because it's not helpful in the slightest and feels like they're purposefully ignoring what everyone is saying. At best, it doesn't contribute to anything, and at worst, it's actively hindering. But you're right, I should've responded more calmly to this. rend (talk) (edits) 09:18, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

I think a subject should be split on its own merits rather than just because of connections to other things. Like I said in my vote, I don't think bringing up consistency with other Standard Karts is convincing because this kart is not consistent with the game's other karts in the game itself. And I really don't understand how searchability concerns could come into play for a subject that doesn't even have an actual name, the name we're using here is entirely made up. Ideally we wouldn't be pipe linking it, we'd just refer to it as a Standard Kart, which is what it is. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:48, September 19, 2025 (EDT)

PrincessPeachFan: Please reread my argument, particularly what I said about a hypothetical colored Yoshi Download Play in Mario Kart DS. I've addressed your question twice times and it helps no one to reiterate that question.

Hewer: I did argue in favor of the kart's merits. It has its own render, it's exclusive to Shy Guy, it has a Shy Guy logo on it, it was given to Shy Guy for Download Play, it has its own merchandise[1] like the other karts, so people are bound to search this. There is the angle that this kart is just a generic standard kart that just so happens to be assigned to Shy Guy which could be the case but within context of the game where all other karts are named and colored, it makes sense to give this its own page with its own spot on the navigational template and on the Mario Kart DS article (even if it does share stats) rather than tuck it away as a redirect. The naming scheme can be argued but I feel this is an instance where it's not totally woven from a cloth. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 12:26, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

I'm not saying it shouldn't have a page or that it should be "tucked away as a redirect", I'm saying that the Standard Kart article should serve as the page, which I think would do a better job at matching the game's presentation of this subject. I don't understand why people would be "bound to search" for something that doesn't even have a name. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:02, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

That essentially makes it a redirect. This entity does have a name, just not one that's explicitly spelled out. I don't think that means we merge it in spite of the other information we have. Maybe I'm not part of the philosophy of most editors, but if this name is extrapolated out of a lack of information by a fan wiki and it somehow worms its way into "official" media, I don't think it matters. All I want is a page for people who expect this asset to have a page like the other karts after following the link from nav templates and this article, or searching it because they saw the name in an AR code or they mention it while waxing nostalgia for this game and not be thrown into a subsection of a bigger article. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 13:13, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

It doesn't have a name, though, and that's just it. It's not meant to be seen as a distinctive entity and we shouldn't force it to. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:19, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

I would probably be fine with splitting this if this was an official name, but the fact is that isn't. I'm not really understanding what's wrong with this just being a Standard Kart that's covered in the Standard Kart article, or why it being part of a bigger article is a bad thing. I would say it simplifies organisation to not have this scattered onto a separate page with a made-up name. If you want information on specifically the Mario Kart 7 version of the Barrel Train, you have to get it in a sub-section of an article that also covers its appearances in Double Dash and Tour. Why does the same arrangement not work here for a kart that's never been shown to be anything but a Standard Kart? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 14:48, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

@Daita - Actually, Shy Guys appear in nameless multi-colored MKDS Standard Karts in Smash. They are not specifically this one. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:00, September 18, 2025 (EDT)

Maybe its best moved to "Standard Kart (Shy Guy)" to avoid any conjectural fluff? — Lady Sophie ^(T|C) 06:32, September 19, 2025 (EDT)

There's still the fact there's literally nothing special about it. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:50, September 19, 2025 (EDT)

Has anyone ever attempted to hack Mario Kart DS in a way that allows them to select Shy Guy's standard kart in the kart selection menu? You'd think that would yield a name like with all the other karts. rend (talk) (edits) 05:50, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

I just think if there were hacks to play as Shy Guy it would just be a file override and you're probably not going to see it reflected in the text of the game. Such as, you choose a character like normal and then the code forces you to play as Shy Guy once the race starts. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 12:29, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

Related, the texture name for the obstacle in Brawl is "heyho_car," though as that also includes ones with color filters over it to approximate the other versions of the Standard Kart, IDK how much that would work. I unfortunately don't know the texture names for MKDS. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:53, September 21, 2025 (EDT)

@Sorbetti - It bothers me because the information here is not unique. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:48, October 1, 2025 (EDT)