Talk:Millstone

Should this page be split between "generic" millstones and Donkey Kong Country millstones?

Also, we should use this gif to hypnotize users in proposals.

As per the "Recurring generic subjects" guideline at MarioWiki:Generic subjects. The Country iteration has appeared in Super Mario-kun and Mario Superstall Baseball in addition to its debut game (and its remakes). In the former, it's shown being operated by a beaver like in the original, while in the latter, it's part of a Donkey Kong-themed stage. Feels like a pretty distinct asset of the Donkey Kong series that isn't embodied in its Mario Kart and Galaxy 2 counterparts. What do you think? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 16:37, October 26, 2025 (EDT)
Edit: Especially since in Galaxy 2, they're not even identified as "millstones", but as cogs. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 16:39, October 26, 2025 (EDT)

Split

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

split 8-0
Okay. How am I supposed to know there's a proposal about this topic if there's no way to find out except by digging through the proposal talk archive? Anyway, this page is a mess. First of all, this article was only about the Donkey Kong Country obstacle, but in 2010, after the release of SMG2, a user added information about the Giant cogs from SMG2 here, even though they don't act the same way at all, and they don't even look alike. This caused this page to become a merge pit for everything related to wheels/cogs from ruins. I recently separated Giant cog for the simple reason that it was conjecturally merged ; it doesn't look like millstones, they aren't called millstones, and they don't act like millstones! I recently found a Spanish name for the obstacle in Mario Kart 8, that, again, it doesn't act like a Millstone, it doesn't look like a Millstone, and it hasn't been called a Millstone. The page, which has since been deleted, presented it in a much more organized and detailed way than this page in its current state. Clearly, the obstacles in Donkey Kong are their own thing: a simple stone wheel operated by enemies, a design that has been maintained in the Donkey Kong games and some cameos. Big Wheels and Giant Cogs are not Millstones. The only reason we included them here was because a user added them without any suggestion or discussion, so I want Big Wheel to remain separate from Millstone. Here's a recreation of what the page I created looked like.

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Additionally, thanks to 1468z, I found an official English name; here it is. Since rollers have a proper name and giant cogs are now on their own page, most of the arguments that got the page merged in the first place can be countered.

Proposer: Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: February 11, 2026, 23:59 (UTC) Closed early on February 4, 2026 23:59 (UTC)

Split

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.
2. Hewer (talk) Per proposal.
3. KamekSans (talk) Per proposal.
4. Arend (talk) This merger always seemed a bit strange to me (and I had no idea there was even a proposal about it, or that the MK8 roller even had a separate article, which, funnily enough, actually seemed to use the correct official name the whole time). While that I disagree that the roller is "clearly a cog", I definitely do agree with the notion that this is NOT a millstone. Both may be giant stone wheels, but the MK8 rollers don't have a hole in it, and Thwomp Ruins doesn't really have much to do with the DKC1 temples to entertain the idea that it may have been a redesign.
5. Mariuigi Khed (talk) Per proposal.
6. EvieMaybe (talk) per Arend. we really really really need to stop merging sort-of-similar objects on surface-level resemblances.
7. Camwoodstock (talk) Per proposal, and per all, especially Arend.
8. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - I'll go ahead and support, there's more than enough proof now these aren't standard grindstones.

Comments

Consider they're merged for being based on an actual thing that is associated with "ruins" areas in video games. Not unlike how frog, fish, and butterfly work. As well as everything spinner covers for being a standard spiked ball-and-chain. Nothing here is a particularly fantastic subject other than the sheer size involved. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:17, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

Saying that the obstacle in Mario Kart 8 is a millstone, even though it's clearly a cog, seems wrong to me. "Spinner" covers things that act like spinners and look like spinners. The things in Donkey Kong are vehicles operated by enemies, and they have their own consistent design. The Mario Kart 8 object is cog a mechanism that activates other mechanisms and doesn't even appear on a track related to Donkey Kong. "nothing here is fantastic" But the stone wheel being driven by a beaver is fantastic to me. Sorbetti (talk) 17:28, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

It's clearly a studded grindstone, not a cog. Cogs are meant to interlock with each other, not crush things. Now, you can potentially argue that the studs incorporate bits of the "flat" Thwomp's design and that that makes them non-generic, but these are definitely not cogs, gears, or sprockets. As for "being driven -ridden- by a beaver" making it "fantastic," I personally don't think parachutes are made any more fantastic by being used by walking bombs. But that's just my take. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:43, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

Parachutes are for that purpose, I don't think that's comparable to millstones. Millstones are used in gristmills to grind food. The Donkey Kong thing is gigantic and used by enemies as a vehicle to crush DK. Clearly, one is more fantastical than the other. On the other hand, the possibility that the rollers are related to the flat design of thwomps seems fair. Sorbetti (talk) 18:08, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

Are parachutes even treated as a generic subject by the wiki? I think it's far from implausible that everything on the parachute page is ultimately derived from their appearance in Super Mario World, unlike with millstones. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:07, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

The Mario Kart 8 Prima eGuide calls them "rollers", so that should probably be the article name if it's split. 1468z (talk) 17:24, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

Of course. I had no idea about that name, thank you. Sorbetti (talk) 17:28, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

I also checked the full Prima guides for 8 Deluxe, as well as the original MK8, and it's the same deal there. It also looks like this was mentioned in the prior proposal about this; seems it was forgotten to be cited in the process of merging and lost over time.
(Side note, you can tell that most of the MK8 guide text was copied over to the 8 Deluxe giide and the new stuff was written by a different team, because they're calling the Swoops "Swoops" in the N64 Yoshi Valley section, but generically refer them as "Bats" in the Wii Wario's Gold Mine one; and yet they got the name for the Keese correct in Hyrule Circuit). rend (talk) (edits) 11:31, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

Yeah it was never cited in any manner, let alone one that anyone else could check in that point, so I didn't know how "properly" that name was used (as it looks, very properly). (To be frank, I've second-guessed that proposal a lot since then, which is why I'm not voting in this one). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:21, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

Side note, should this image of the millstone in the background of Yoshi Star Galaxy also be removed from the article's gallery? It's merely a background object after all, one that doesn't really have a function in SMG2 other than being part of the galaxy's aesthetic.
Though, even if it's allowed to be kept... I do feel like we need to replace it with a better picture of the millstone anyway, since here it's been stuffed into a corner and partly cut off, so you can barely see it as it's not even the focus of the screenshot. Like, surely you can make something better via noclip.website. rend (talk) (edits) 22:36, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

It's merged to the geometry (though can be seen to be fully modeled itself), so that can get in the way. Anyone with a model viewer on their device might be able to take this and remove the ground polygons around it, however. Anyways, the idea for merging them is that they are all generically the real-life subject known as "millstone" over any specifically DKC-based thing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:47, January 28, 2026 (UTC)

I've honestly always been a bit skeptical of these kinds of "generic subject" articles. I think it's odd to declare that the obstacle from the DKC games was somehow not creative enough to be considered a distinct subject from the obstacle in Mario Kart 8, which it has no relation to besides happening to be based on the same real object. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 00:20, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

"the idea for merging them is that they are all generically the real-life subject known as "millstone" over any specifically DKC-based thing."
If this is about why the roller from MK8 should stay here as well, that argument doesn't work for that one because, again, it's not actually a millstone. Millstones are supposed to have a hole in them so they could actually function in a mill, but the MK8 roller doesn't have one: it's just a giant stone wheel with square-ish protrusions on the sides (the opposite of a hole). If the idea is that they should be merged because they're both giant stone wheels that roll around in temples and crush you, then this article really shouldn't be named "Millstone" (because let's be honest, the DKC millstone doesn't really work how a millstone should work either, therefor not making it a generic millstone).
Turning back to the Yoshi Star Galaxy background millstone, again, it's a background object with no function. I guess it could be kept if we keep the article strictly about millstones (as opposed to giant stone wheels), but I'm being cautious as this could easily turn into another Rocket situation (or rather, a Wario Cap one) where we'd cover even the most non-substantial appearances of a millstone just because it's a millstone. rend (talk) (edits) 00:37, January 29, 2026 (UTC)

I got my hands on Kadokawa/Famitsu's Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Perfect Guide Chō ∞ (or also Perfect Guide Hyper ∞) to see what they're calling the roller, and there it's called 車輪しゃりん, which translates to "wheel":

(Also it looks like the walls that the roller hits are also listed as a separate "gimmick", being called ドッスンドミノ (Dossun Domino))
I don't know yet if Shogakukan's guide for MK8 calls these any different, but so far, none of our known sources seem to regard these things as """millstones""" (otherwise they would've been called something like 石臼 ishiusu in the Japanese guide as well). rend (talk) (edits) 17:16, February 2, 2026 (UTC)