Talk:Craw

Merge to Dark Craw

In the lang-of-origin, Dark Craw's name is just "Spear Crow," which coupled with the fairly consistent lack of any name for the tan ones across several languages, imply that it is less a variant situation and more like how you talk to blue bandits, but fight pink ones. The "dark" seems to be nothing but another product of the shaky localization. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:19, March 2, 2023 (EST)

I was thinking another possibility could be merging this with Robbo Thieves, since all the Craws are part of that group, and leaving the Dark Craw article for the ones not part of it. Nightwicked Bowser 06:45, March 5, 2023 (EST)

Er, how's about we wait until the remake comes out next year and see if the Dark Craw is retained or if they call it something else? PrincessPeachFan (talk) 09:02, December 15, 2023 (EST)

Remake's out, what now? SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 10:46, April 25, 2024 (EDT)

It's not out for another month, dude. Previews are just coming out now. BiggestMan 17:14, April 25, 2024 (EDT)

So, do we merge this with Dark Craw now that the remake is out? PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:55, May 29, 2024 (EDT)

The remake didn't change anything regarding this topic. Nightwicked Bowser 09:04, May 29, 2024 (EDT)

We could also merge it with Gus. That's the only one of them you actually fight, and the names of Garf and Goose in other languages are based on Gus's in said languages. rend (talk) (edits)

I think Craw and Dark Craw should remain separate. Derekblue1(talk) 05:00, July 27, 2024 (EDT)

The remake could help in a different way, if internal names for these characters were to be checked. Blinker (talk) 16:22, December 28, 2024 (EST)

I'm pretty sure that, even if that isn't the case in the original Japanese, the enemy is named Dark Craw because it is a darker-colored Craw, not because that's meant to be the name of the entire species, so I am opposed to the merger. Feranogame (talk) 15:15, February 21, 2025 (EST)

Clawing at this Craw article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Keep Craw separate 2-0-0-10
So, Craws. No official name for them exists. Now, logically they are meant to be their own species separate from Dark Craw, following trends of other enemies in the game (and hey, Dark Craws do have higher Attack than Gus, so that's something). That said, this is still technically conjectural, and many ideas have been suggested above on how to possibly merge Craw. I've listed all of them as voting options.

Proposer: Technetium (talk)
Deadline: June 9, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Merge to Dark Craw

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - I mean, look at Bandit. The blue ones only appear as NPCs, the pink ones are enemies. Enemy Troopas have sunglasses and cuffs while friendly ones do not and have green shells, friendly Goombas and Bob-ombs have hats, etc. Glitzville is where things go odd since some opponents are also friendly NPCs, and you happen to fight a typical "friendly" version of this entity as a named character pseudo-boss. All in all, though, this would be like splitting the blue Bandits if you happened to fight Larson as a named character or something to that effect. Deciding to turn the straightforward "Spear Crow" (which is a clear description for both colors) into "Dark Craw" (which appears to focus on the "enemy" coloration) is simply a localization gaffe they didn't fix in the remake.
2. Blinker (talk) Per Doc von Schmeltwick. Although I wouldn't really call this a gaffe? The name works for what it is.

Keep separate

1. Technetium (talk) Yes, it's conjectural, but I do think Craws and Dark Craws are intended to be separate species. And while there's not much info here, we still have a page on the Ratooey species, of which only 2 characters are a part of (less than the number of Craw characters). What I'm getting at here is that if Craws were officially named, there would be no debate to this article's existence.
2. Xiahou Ba, The Nasty Warrior (talk) Per Technetium.
3. Tails777 (talk) Per Technetium.
4. EvieMaybe (talk) Ter Pechnecium.
5. Sparks (talk) Per all.
6. Kirby the Formling (talk) Per All
7. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Technetium. We've been fairly vocal before that we're fine with short pages so long as they're still thorough enough and have a fairly decent reason to exist, and that hasn't changed.
8. PrincessPeachFan (talk): Craw Craw! Per all.
9. Rering644 (talk) Per all.
10. Sorbetti (talk) Per Ratooey.

Craw Comments

Why are you proposing this if you'd rather keep this split? Nightwicked Bowser 14:32, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

Because there was a merge suggestion, and it's contentious enough to warrant a proposal to decide what to do. I did a similar thing with the Wish proposal I started too. Technetium (talk) 14:34, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

Make a proposal ≠ agree with the proposal. Sorbetti (talk) 14:48, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

@Doc von Schmeltwick The difference with these two is that: Bandit the NPC's and Bandit the enemies are both just called "Bandits" Same with Koopa Troopas, on top of that, both of those spiecies are already established spiecies, While the "Crows" are TTYD oc's that we don't have a ton of information aboud, so I don't think that we should assume that both of these are meant to be the same. Kirby the Formling (talk) 17:44, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

"Yari Kuro" (the Japanese name assigned to the entity localized as "Dark Craw") is pretty clearly intended to refer to both, since they both have the spears ("yari"). "Craw" by itself is not an official name at all. So that comparison does not work. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:08, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

Uh, the "names in other languages" section of this article has a sourced Italian name...shouldn't that be the title if there's no official name in English? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 21:40, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

Except it's the same as Gus's Italian name… Technetium (talk) 22:02, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

So? The article claims it's used as a name for the species. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 22:24, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

I'd like to see more proof that it is. From the material I've seen, it's just as conjectural as this one based on the Dark Craw name being, essentially, "Armed Gus." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:26, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

The sourced quote is "È un Gaz". Emphasis on the "un", which is an indefinite article very much like the English "a". "It's a Gaz".--PopitTart (talk) 23:04, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

And then Dark Craw is Gazarmato, clearly building off the Gaz name. I guess I could add Gaz as another voting option… Or rather, "hey if we keep the page should we rename it or keep it conjectural". But then there's Gaz the character… Sure we can just do Gaz (character) and Gaz (species), but I'd rather avoid IDs when possible. Technetium (talk) 23:13, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

Considering the SMRPG character is actually named Gaz in English, I think it would be fair for it to apply for the "more likely to be searched for or linked to than the other(s)" clause.--PopitTart (talk) 23:47, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

Since the field tattle lacks an indefinite article (and thus is treating it as a name), it seems like a translation oversight to me (not unlike the Sky-Blue Spiny "pipe" one in English, or the "Axem Rangers" in reference to the Blade from Super Mario RPG). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:59, May 26, 2025 (EDT)

@Camwoodstock - Length has nothing to do with this, so much as being an entirely conjectural split. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:23, May 27, 2025 (EDT)

We know it's not really "about" length, but we do feel like there's some argument to be made that there's "not enough" to be said about ordinary Craws outside of the members of their species we see, and we generally disagree with that concept as a whole. plus we wanted to add something that wasn't just "yeah, Technetium basically got it all right" so sue us ~Camwoodstock ( talk ☯ contribs ) 01:28, May 27, 2025 (EDT)

@Technetium - Let me ask you this: what sets this apart from all those other guys I mentioned? That the "enemy" version is colored scary? That doesn't seem too different from the Koopa Troopa's hooligan glasses and cuffs to me. If the NPC "blue" Bandits were given a separate name, we'd also probably split them, but the fact of the matter is they weren't. And a single NPC example also being fightable with different stats also doesn't automatically make it a different species; if Larson were fought at the end of the trouble involving him and had different stats, we still wouldn't split them, just as we don't split "Goofy martial artist-looking Buzzy Beetle" for Chan, "Ninjakoopa (species)" for the Koopa Bros., "weirdest Lakitu I've ever seen" (Goombario's words) for Lakilester, or the angry Toads in Color Splash - not to mention all the "enemy" types being NPCs in the Glitz Pit locker rooms. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:39, May 27, 2025 (EDT)