Talk:Super Mario Galaxy 2 Trailer Theme

Proposal: Move page to "Sky Station Galaxy" and make it about so

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

do not move page to "Sky Station Galaxy" 3-7

Don't you think that having an article about a trailer theme is a little bit weird? I get that it was quite literally called the "Theme of SMG2," but… this doesn't even appear in the game it says it's from. I think this article be about "Sky Station Galaxy," since it's the level where the theme first appears in, and the one most people would likely associate the motif with.

There's also an article about Super Bell Hill, even though the trailer theme is titled the "SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD Theme" in that game's official soundtrack (which is identical in the first half and different in the second, similarly to "Super Mario Galaxy 2 Trailer Theme"). Ground Theme (New Super Mario Bros. U) has a similar case, only its trailer theme never got an official name.

If not, then a simple redirect should be enough.

Proposer: The Dab Master (talk)
Deadline: September 30, 2025, 23:59 GMT

"Sturdy Support Galaxy"

1. The Dab Master (talk) Per proposal.
2. Wilben (talk) My thoughts exactly. I don't understand why this article uses the name for the trailer theme, but the "Super Bell Hill" theme doesn't.
3. PrincessPeachFan (talk): It's been called Sky Station Galaxy first and Nintendo Music titles are weird.

"SUPER MARIO WIKI Oppose Theme"

1. DryBonesBandit (talk) I don't see why we should dispute what Nintendo officially called it on Nintendo Music, nor change focus based on whether it appeared in a game or not. Sky Station Galaxy is also just an arrangement of this that happens to be recurring; why would we shift focus to an arrangement of the original theme?
2. EvieMaybe (talk) while i do disagree with this decision on its own, the actual reason i'm opposing is that i've got a proposal draft that would iron out this issue in a tidier, more consistent and wider-reaching manner, if it passes and when i publish it. i would rather see this issue be tackled through policy and reworking of the rules that led us to it, than to carve out exceptions. otherwise, it's a bandaid fix on a wider issue.
3. Sorbetti (talk) Sky Station Galaxy needs its own article, and the other arrangements too! Per all.
4. Altendo (talk) Per all.
5. Reese Rivers (talk) Per all.
6. Mario jc (talk) Per all.
7. Martendo (talk) Per all.

"Commenting"

@Wilben It doesn’t use the trailer title because it is named "Super Bell Hill" on Nintendo Music. This is the same source in which we get the "Super Mario Galaxy 2 Trailer Theme" name. Was mistaken. Regardless, this article title reflects what Nintendo officially calls the track, so I don’t see why it should be moved because another track isn’t named by the same logic. Also, why not just. Make a separate page for Sky Station Galaxy? This is me, D-B-B! 22:34, September 16, 2025 (EDT)

I think splitting the page for Sky Station Galaxy would be kind of pointless, as it would just leave the trailer theme completely stranded. That's why it's a move. The Dab Master 23:08, September 16, 2025 (EDT)

Stranded? There’s still other appearances and arrangements of ToSmg2 that are not Sky Station Galaxy.

It also doesn’t sit right with me to move this article’s focus to another track that is an arrangement of it. This theme, despite its Nintendo Music name, is the original theme; why would we cover an arrangement of it instead? This is me, D-B-B! 23:27, September 16, 2025 (EDT)

The same could be said for the "SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD Theme", as that was also the trailer theme for its respective game, yet "Super Bell Hill" is the name that was chosen. Wilben (talk) 23:35, September 16, 2025 (EDT)

"Super Bell Hill" is the original theme. An arrangement happens to be used in the trailer. This is me, D-B-B! 23:39, September 16, 2025 (EDT)

What makes ToSMG2 any different? The Dab Master 23:46, September 16, 2025 (EDT)

ToSMG2 is the original theme. Sky Station Galaxy is an arrangement of it. Super Bell Hill is an original theme. SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD Theme is an arrangement of it. We shouldn’t cover the originals on an article for an arrangement. This is me, D-B-B! 23:48, September 16, 2025 (EDT)

Ok but like… why isn't SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD Theme, the actual theme? The Dab Master 23:53, September 16, 2025 (EDT)

Liner notes on the soundtrack release clarify it to be a version of the theme used for promotional purposes.

Regardless of the 3DW track, I’d advocate for it to be about the original track and not an arrangement. This is me, D-B-B! 23:56, September 16, 2025 (EDT)

This feels like its a policy question, not a question of one specific article. Because what we're asking isn't actually "should the page be named after the (broader concept) level it plays in?" We're asking, "When a game contains multiple arrangements of the same theme, which of those arrangements is the one we prioritize as the name of the page". What I think is happening is that, because the wiki currently groups arrangements in the same article as the base song and MarioWiki:Naming only tells us to name the page after the song's original name, we're at a complete loss in the circumstance where a song's debut game has multiple arrangements of that song and there are at least two of them that both equally appear to be the "base song". So here, we currently say Super Mario Galaxy 2 Trailer Theme is the base song and Sky Station Galaxy follows from it. But on Super Bell Hill, we say Super Bell Hill is the base song and SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD Theme follows from that. And, we're stuck, because there really isn't a way to square this circle without one of two things happening:

• Nintendo tells us which of the contested songs was composed first, which finally would decisively say which one is the "base song" to name the page after. But Nintendo is a black box with no obligation to say which of the contested songs was composed first, and its minutiae so minute that only a very deep interview would ever answer this question. We shouldn't bank on this happening ever.
• We make a decision about which of the songs is the "base song", like this proposal will do. But that's inheriently subjective, as the vote will likely pan out here. Yeah, Sky Station Galaxy is the first in game appearance, but Super Mario Galaxy 2 Trailer Theme was broadcast first. There are two firsts here, and picking one of those firsts to prioritize is making an opinionated choice.

I feel that the correct answer to this problem is to policy-ize an answer to apply across the wiki. In this exact situation, where a song has multiple arrangements in the same name in the game it first appears in, thereby making MarioWiki:Naming's guidance leave us at a loss, the correct answer is to always name the page after the "the theme that appears first on the game's soundtrack release", favoring the oldest available soundtrack release but double favoring the Nintendo Music soundtrack release. This is the least opinionated answer, because we no longer have to choose if the order the game was revealed in and the order the game can be played in is more important by instead deferring to an objective fact of the soundtrack's organization. (Oh, and it means Super Bell Hill and Sky Station Galaxy over SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD Theme and Super Mario Galaxy 2 Trailer Theme.) (I believe this conundrum is a reason to have soundtrack pages over song pages, evading this scuffle over which song is the "base song", but that's neither here nor there.) (Are you wondering why I said all that but didn't actually place a vote? Er... I'm not the music person. I have a lack of confidence in my own opinion. And maybe because it's possible the liner notes of Super Mario 3D World Original Soundtrack say Super Bell Hill is the original composition straight up, which would dilute the argument I'm trying to make.) Salmancer (talk) 00:00, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

It does say that Super Bell Hill was the original composition. This is me, D-B-B! 00:03, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

So... apparently we have all of the liner notes in that album transcribed on this wiki, which sure is something. (And I should have scrolled down to find when I was looking at the soundtrack page.) But something seems wrong then. Which of those liner notes directly says Super Bell Hill was composed first between it and SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD Theme? I am unable to determine it. Salmancer (talk) 00:13, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

Liner notes for "Super Bell Hill" mention they came up with the theme for the game’s World 1-1. This is me, D-B-B! 00:15, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

But it doesn't directly say "World 1-1 comes before promotional trailer". We have to make an inference to get from "Making a World 1-1 theme is the hardest part of composing for Mario games" to "the promotional trailer theme is based on the World 1-1 theme". And I think that particular inference is loose; there's no reason the World 1-1 theme couldn't actually be the second of the two themes. Salmancer (talk) 00:32, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

"Coming up with the music for World 1-1 in a new Super Mario title is the biggest challenge of all for us as the composers." implies to me that they composed the theme for the level, like in other games. This is me, D-B-B! 00:36, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

I like this idea in theory, but wouldn't it result in things like "Peach's Castle" becoming "Peach's Letter", or Main Theme (Super Mario 64) becoming "Opening"? Unless we choose to make exceptions in certain cases, which would kinda defeat the point of having the policy. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 05:41, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

I think "Opening" is less of an arrangement of "Main Theme" than it having a section based on "Main Theme", so I think that could just be handled by not organizing songs excepting from other songs as arrangements to begin with. I would personally take the hit on having the article called "Peach's Letter" for the sake of stopping flummoxing corner cases, but it would look very weird. Salmancer (talk) 13:13, September 25, 2025 (EDT)

If the musical theme is usually composed with the level in mind, then it probably makes all the more sense to use the name of the level theme over the trailer theme. Also, I don't really see what a general proposal would accomplish when this is currently the only musical theme at the moment with conflictions on the name. Wilben (talk) 06:56, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

I don’t think the theme itself was composed with the level in mind here? The track was literally called "Theme of SMG2" by Nintendo. This is me, D-B-B! 07:10, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

Yeah, but only problem is, they call "Totaka's Song" "Title Theme 2". PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:51, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

@PrincessPeachFan Because it is "Title Theme 2". It also doesn’t debut in Mario Paint, so that wouldn’t be its original arrangement. This is me, D-B-B! 09:11, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

I assume that Nintendo will do a "trailer has a unique song that the game doesn't have" again, so it would be nice to have "an answer" rather than the less decisive "well this is similar to this other thing, so we should approach in roughly the same way." Salmancer (talk) 13:13, September 25, 2025 (EDT)

Two interviews, Nintendo Throws Us A One-Up: Super Mario Galaxy 2 Sound Team Interview and the Iwata Asks: Super Mario All-Stars interview, refer to the theme in relation to the track that plays in Sky Station Galaxy. The version used in the trailer is not mentioned, which may point towards "Sky Station Galaxy" being the primary version. B700465189a9 (talk) 09:36, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

If those interviews confirm that "Sky Station Galaxy" is the original theme and "Theme of SMG2" is the arrangement, then I think that settles this discussion. No? Wilben (talk) 11:46, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

Referring to one track doesn’t make it the original. This is me, D-B-B! 13:27, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

Loosely related: why are we italicising Super Mario Galaxy 2 in the title of this theme? Partially italicising the name of a theme looks really weird in my opinion, and isn't consistent with any official source. We also don't do this for "SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD Theme", or "Super Mario Galaxy" (the credits theme of Super Mario Galaxy), or even this theme's other title, "Theme of SMG2". Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:35, September 17, 2025 (EDT)

I agree that an exception should be made for theme titles. The Dab Master 13:41, September 17, 2025 (EDT)