Talk:Hard Mode

About hard mode for SMAS SMB TLL (SMB2J)

This is the evidance

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV12a4y137zb/ 4:27 - 5:17

The oddity can be found here

Ffffff (talk) 04:26, March 20, 2025 (EDT)

This seems to be well known in the Japanese web but I can't find any references in English. Version differences?--Platform (talk) 21:02, March 22, 2025 (EDT)

World B-1, World C-1, World D-1, and World D-2 may need to be edited because of the Goomba/Buzzy Beetle note. We have to find out if there is a difference between the Japanese and foreign releases first.--Platform (talk) 21:42, March 22, 2025 (EDT)

All Night Nippon A-D hard mode

How is the hard mode accessed in ANN:SMB Worlds A-D? There are lots of videos on YouTube of people beating the first eight worlds in Hard Mode but when they continue to A-D, it's regular mode. Do they have to beat the first eight without warps while in Hard Mode? Is it available only after beating D-4?--Platform (talk) 21:02, March 22, 2025 (EDT)

Classify Classic Mode, in the Yoshi series and otherwise, as a Hard Mode

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Do not classify Classic Mode as a Hard mode 0-0-6
Yoshi’s Woolly World is a really nice game when it comes to presenting difficulty options. Instead of going “here’s the normal mode we expect people to use” and “here’s the easy mode for people who do not want to play on the normal mode”, like Super Mario Odyssey does, it goes “here’s the tougher mode for experienced players” and “here’s the easier mode for less-experienced players”. Classic Mode in Yoshi’s Woolly World is presented as a Hard Mode, not as a Normal Mode. As far as the game’s own presentation is concerned, Yoshi’s Woolly World does not have a normal difficulty setting, only a "hard" and an "easy". As I was writing this, I noticed other games have Classic Modes of a similar style.

This table should show what I mean. Classic Mode is clearly distinct from just regular modes:

Gane	Mode name	Description	Affected by main proposal support?	Affected by secondary proposal support? (I'll explain what this means later!)
Yoshi's Crafted World	Classic Mode	This mode is recommended for more experienced players.
Poochy & Yoshi's Woolly World	Classic Mode	This mode is recommended for more experienced players.
Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Nintendo Switch)	Classic Style	Recommended for players looking for more of a challenge
Super Mario RPG (Nintendo Switch)	Normal	Battles are balanced normally in this mode. Play this if you want to enjoy a challenge
Super Mario Odyssey	Regular Mode	The standard way to play
Donkey Kong Bananza	Normal Mode	The standard way to play

This proposal aims to mirror these game's presentation on the wiki, by defining Classic Mode in Yoshi’s Woolly World and Yoshi’s Crafted World and the Classic Style in Mario vs Donkey Kong as a Hard Mode. This would entail adding a Woolly World, Crafted World and vs Donkey Kong sections to the Hard Mode article. If any other "Classic" branded settings show up, and they resemble these things, they should also be added to the Hard Mode article. I don't think there are any other things we have to do. Maybe say "Classic Mode" and "Classic Style" in a few more places, since in Woolly World for instance, its now a full parallel to Mellow Mode instead of the default mode. So I would add the sentence "In Classic Mode, if Yoshi is defeated during a boss battle he still has to return to the last checkpoint (Yoshi's Woolly World), but in Mellow Mode the start of a boss's introduction cutscene serves as invisible checkpoint." to Woolly World's article, as part of the Bosses section. But if this proposal failed I would instead put "In Mellow Mode the start of a boss's introduction cutscene serves as invisible checkpoint." in the same place. Things like that.

This case isn’t actually airtight: the manuals for the Woolly World games have a section for Mellow Mode changes but not Classic Mode changes, implying Classic Mode is in fact the base and therefore a normal mode. Videos for these games, including Mario vs. Donkey Kong have a section for Mellow Mode/Casual Syle but not Classic Mode/Classic Style. However, source priority for naming puts video games above manuals for video games and videos for video games. The presentation in the manuals and in the videos is not consistent with the games proper, therefore the manuals and videos should be ignored. Mario vs. Donkey Kong's website backs interpreting Classic Style as a hard mode, but Yoshi's Crafted World's website considers Classic Mode as "the conventional Yoshi experience" but still has both a Classic Mode section and a Mellow Mode section Websites beat videos in our source priority system, but the two sites are in conflict despite talking about similar features, I personally feel they should cancel out and be ignored.

You might be wondering "Hey Salmancer, where's Original Mode from Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D, Donkey Kong Country Returns HD, and Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (Nintendo Switch)? Well, so that has a major confounding factor. The branding of Original Mode is not that these modes are harder, it's that they offer the "original game balance" (my words, not a quote) to contrast with the new features, fancy doodads, extra accessibility, balance for play on a handheld device, and (sigh) lower difficulty of New Mode, Modern Mode, and Funky Mode. Basically, in my opinion the goal of Original Mode, and what Nintendo communcates is Original Mode's appeal to the audience isn't to make the game harder. Original Mode's goal and appeal is just to not include the remake's new features so the game can always be played as originally designed. This means it fails to qualify as a Hard Mode. Super Mario RPG (Nintendo Switch) Normal difficulty doesn't disqualify itself this way because Breezy Mode isn't introducing new bells and whistles, but its Normal difficulty is being excluded from this proposal regardless because its called Normal and its description outright reads "Battles are balanced normally in this mode." It's flagrantly a "Normal Mode" to the player and not a "Hard Mode". For reference, that game's website has a section talking about Breezy difficulty but not one for Normal difficulty, so we know its presentation of difficulty runs on the exact same dichotomy that Super Mario Odyssey's Normal and Assist Modes do.

As an alternative, to reduce the edge-casery regarding Original Mode and Super Mario RPG's Normal Mode, we could say modes added in remakes that represent the base way to play the original games don't count as Hard Modes, full stop. While nice and clean, it does exclude Mario vs Donkey Kong's Classic Style in the process. and that game's branding generally treats it less like a remake compared to most games in the franchise. This alternate option passing would mean this proposal about how players perceive selecting modes suddenly has a clause it in very much not about user perception.

(There was an amble about how I couldn't risk hunting down Bananza's take on this because spoilers, but turns out it's in a trailer. There was a useful note in that amble, namely that Bananza's official website has a section for Assist Mode but not Normal Mode. Just like Odyssey's page, which tracks because both games were made by Nintendo Entertainment Planning and Development. Again, these games have default, normal modes and not "Hard Modes".)

Proposer: Salmancer (talk)
Deadline: August 10, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: Classic Mode is Hard Mode

Salmancer (talk) Per proposal.

Support: Classic Mode is Hard Mode, except for remakes of games which keep the original game balance under Classic Mode

Salmancer (talk) I don't like this. While its nice and neat to exclude remakes, Classic Style from MvDK should qualify as a Hard Mode. However, I think its important that this at least apply to Classic Mode in the Yoshi games.

Oppose: Classic Mode is the normal mode

1. Arend (talk) "Classic" means "original", as in, the way that the designers intended the game to be like. I think this is very telling with the Mario vs. Donkey Kong remake, which has this "classic mode" which is supposed to emulate the difficulty of the original GBA game, as well as the Yoshi's Woolly World electronic manual not making clear about any Classic mode changes, implying that it's in fact the normal mode. Stating "Classic" to be Hard Mode when "Normal" is not seems very contradictory to me, and pretending like Classic modes are Hard modes gives me localized Mega Man 2 vibes. It'd be easier for me to swallow these are Hard modes if they were called "Challenge" modes instead, and/or if the Japanese versions called them "Hard Mode" as well.
2. Sorbetti (talk) Per Arend.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Arend--this isn't Mega Man 2, "Classic" does not generally mean "Hard" mode, in the same way that "Expert" or "Challenge" mode would mean a "Hard" mode. Sometimes, games really do just come with Easy Modes and Normal Modes, with no corresponding Hard Mode to speak of--hi, Pokemon White 2.
4. Rykitu (talk) Per Arend.
5. Salmancer (talk) Oh, well... yeah the JP names, especially for the Yoshi series, kind of torpedo my case don't they. Per Camwoodstock as well. (I could cancel this proposal, but generally I feel it makes more sense to keep things on the books as actual decisions.)
6. PrincessPeachFan (talk): I can maybe sorta see Challenge Mode from NSMB as one but this one? Not so much.

Comments (Is Classic Mode a Hard Mode?)

I also went out of my way to find Japanese playthroughs and see what they call their Classic modes and easy modes for all games listed except Odyssey (EDIT 04:39, July 30, 2025 (EDT): now updated woth Odyssey and Bananza):

Game	Easy Mode	Classic Mode
Yoshi's Woolly World	エンジョイモード Enjoi Mōdo Enjoy Mode	おなじみモード Onajimi Mōdo Familiar Mode
Poochy & Yoshi's Woolly World	パタパタヨッシー Patapata Yosshī Flapping Yoshi	いつものヨッシー Itsumo no Yosshī Usual Yoshi
Yoshi's Crafted World	パタパタヨッシー Patapata Yosshī Flapping Yoshi	いつものヨッシー Itsumo no Yosshī Usual Yoshi
Mario vs. Donkey Kong	カジュアル Kajuaru Casual	クラシック Kurashikku Classic
Super Mario RPG	エンジョイ Enjoi Enjoy	ノーマル Nōmaru Normal
Super Mario Odyssey	おたすけモード Otasuke Mōdo Help Mode	ノーマルモード Nōmaru Mōdo Normal Mode
Donkey Kong Bananza	おたすけモード Otasuke Mōdo Help Mode	ノーマルモード Nōmaru Mōdo Normal Mode

Needless to say, I'm still not convinced that "Classic" is supposed to be Hard Mode. rend (talk) (edits) 11:47, July 28, 2025 (EDT)