Talk:Spark

(First topic)

Watt isn't related. Watt is a lil' sparky. HK

What's the related species in Yoshi's Island?--Sticklyman (talk) 09:35, 8 August 2012 (EDT)

Piro Dangle. LUIGIRULES71

"Sparky"

What we have here is a creature with a plethora of different, but similar Japanese names, while Piro Dangle and Wire Trap, which both share a Japanese name with one of those but have different English names,m are listed separate, despite still attacking about the same. Either way, some of these travel on wires, some travel along surfaces, who are we to say they're intended to be the same thing? I find it rather unlikely that an enemy from Donkey Kong Jr. was intended to be in Yume Kojo: Doki Doki Panikku. I'm not sure that this page should be renamed so much as split. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:18, 5 November 2017 (EST)

For what it's worth, while Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten is a wee bit split-heavy, it does group the Donkey Kong Jr. and Game Boy Donkey Kong Sparks together, even though they're both pretty different and the change is noted in the description. It also lists the Super Mario USA Spark separately, but it is also mildly renamed from the Super Mario Bros. 2 Spark, with which it shares its name as stated in its profile (it, along with Tweeter and Flurry, wasn't listed in the Doki Doki Panic manual). Although the original intention isn't clear, given the existing Mario references already in Doki Doki Panic (POW, Stars...), I see little point in splitting off that game's Spark - the Sparkies in March of the Minis / Mini-Land Mayhem! even have a similar design, which would seem to solidify the connection. I'm also willing to believe that the Game Boy Donkey Kong (and, by extension, Mario vs. Donkey Kong) Sparks/Sparkies are at least a reference to the Donkey Kong Jr. version. I think, at the very least, Wire Traps should be grouped together with the wire Spark(y)s; Piro Dangle, though, is obviously a fire creature instead of an electrical one, so I believe that one is a case of coincidental naming. That said, it does make sense to split the article between the enemy's platform-based and wire-based versions, but at the end of the day, both types would still be Sparkies going by recent, common naming. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:25, 5 November 2017 (EST)

Piro Dangle seems to take more from Hothead than anything truly fiery, actually. And it acts just like a slow version of the SMB2 Sparks, except it de-energizes sometimes, which I'm still not sure if that is a "weak moment" or anything. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:24, 5 November 2017 (EST)

If Piro Dangle is deliberately Spark but the fact just got lost in translation, it would be just about the last Yoshi's Island enemy to be moved back to its intended counterpart. It still looks like a ball of flame, though, which is additionally noted in its Shogakukan description. Since they apparently reappeared in Yoshi's New Island, I'm curious to know if their name was also changed to Sparky there - and if so, the current name matching would confirm to me without doubt that it's definitely supposed to be the same thing or is at least closely related in some way (after all, they did do the same thing for Ukiki). LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:09, 5 November 2017 (EST)

Well technically there's still Spiked Fun Guy, which didn't appear in YNI due to vanilla Pokeys appearing, and them having the same JP name, just absurdly different appearances and attack patters in comparison to other enemies in that game.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:40, 5 November 2017 (EST)

i'm Confused...i Think We Should Split Them For Now? LUIGIRULES71

Split Magnet Sparky from Spark

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

split 8-0
Given our recent re-split of Mega Mole and Morty Mole, I consider this to be a similar case. Plus, the plethora of confusion surrounding the aforementioned case doesn't apply here, as Magnet Sparkies actually have patterns that make them unique from Sparkies; they only travel along Magnet edges, and they enter certain (officially named) generators on the Magnets for brief periods of time.

Proposer: Toadette the Achiever (talk)
Deadline: April 23, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Per proposal.
2. Niiue (talk) Per proposal.
3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) Been hoping someone would propose this (I've had a lot on my plate recently to make proposals), thank you! Per proposal.
4. DerpyLobster (talk) Yeah, they probably should...
5. BubbleRevolution (talk) Per proposal.
6. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per proposal.
7. LuigiMaster123 (talk) Per proposal.
8. LinkTheLefty (talk) I'm fairly certain you can't place this enemy without a Magnet Sparky Generator in Construction Zone, so though it's not quite a toy, this behavior difference alone is enough to set it apart.

Comments

This refers to both of the MvsDK Sparks, right? Since they both followed the "Magnetized Surface" rule? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:53, 8 April 2018 (EDT)

Yes. ^(T|C) 01:05, 9 April 2018 (EDT)

I am honestly so confused.DerpyLobster 1:15, 9 April 2018 (EDT)

Piro Dangle

It would seem that Piro Dangle has an identical Japanese name. This, combined with both being spheres with masklike eyes surrounded by a field of vague orange damaging glow that travel around platforms, makes me think that perhaps they are intended to be the same thing. While they are slower than the SMB2 enemy and occasionally lose their "spark," so to speak, plenty of SMB2 enemies appeared in the game with different behavior from before. Additionally, unlike Harry Hedgehog, it wasn't renamed to be a subtype in YNI, and unlike Spiked Fun Guy, they aren't replaced with the original counterpart. Anyways, there is the "electricity" vs "fire" debate, which I personally find a little silly, as Sumo Bro did the same thing (though that one could be argued as to depend on the floor). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:29, 7 December 2018 (EST)

Isn't this similar to the talk section above? Correct me if I'm wrong. ^(T|C) 21:12, 7 December 2018 (EST)

Similar, yes, but not identical. These seem more functionally similar to me than Spark and Magnet Sparky or what's currently under Wire Trap (with a proposal going to do more). I find it more likely that a SMB2 enemy was intended to be in SMW2 (as there are several other cases) than a DKJr enemy was intended to be in YK:DDP. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:20, 7 December 2018 (EST)

Additionally, aside from the English name, there's not much that indicate's that that's definitely fire, it looks to me like the orange area Hothead has, particularly in Smash Bros. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:15, 8 December 2018 (EST)

Just a heads-up, Shogakukan's Yossy Island and Super Mario Advance 3 guides describe it as 火 (hi, fire), and the Yoshi's New Island guide describes it as 光 (hikari, light). LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:30, 9 December 2018 (EST)

Also, Piro Dangle's eyes look more like Fryguy's eyes, and normal Sparks don't have a mouth. -- FanOfYoshi at 10:25, 11 December 2018 (EST)

Once again, please recall how off--model many things were in SMW2. I still maintain that the Spiked Fun Guy in that game was a one-off redesign for the generic Pokey, with Needlenose being called sanbo more generically. Note how one appears alongside normal, on-model Pokeys in a later game, and the other conspicuously doesn't. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:01, 17 December 2018 (EST)

I also think that Spiked Fun Guy was intended to be a redesign of a Pokey, since their appearance is more closer than Needlenoses. (The Yoshi's New Island Guide doesn't have an entry for Needlenoses, nor on the Pokey's entry, indicating that Needlenoses are, despite their Japanese name, different species of Pokey). Anyways, i think we're getting off-topic. -- FanOfYoshi at 13:06, 17 December 2018 (EST)

Not really, I'm just pointing out another insanely-different redesign of an SMB2 enemy in SMW2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:20, 17 December 2018 (EST)

So you mean by "another insanely-different redesign of an SMB2 enemy in SMW2" that you think that Spiked Fun Guy is intended to be the Pokey itself? Also, while Spiked Fun Guy (Pokey)'s design were changed to their actual appearance, Piro Dangles remain their previous design. For Needlenoses, they are clearly intended to be different things despite their Japanese name, as they have no entry in the Yoshi's New Island Guide, nor mentioned on the normal Pokey's. Spiked Fun Guy's appearance is definitively more closer to Pokey's. There was a proposal to split both Spiked Fun Guys, with one option that had splitting Yoshi's Story Spiked Fun Guy while merging the Yoshi's Island one. -- FanOfYoshi at 06:55, 20 December 2018 (EST)

The thing about the Yoshi's Island depiction is that Shogakukan's Super Mario Advance 3 guide suggests that Needlenose and Spiked Fun Guy are actually the same thing (note the description, whose last sentence translates as: "It sometimes hangs from a balloon or rides in a pot." - describing actions exclusive to Needlenose and Spike Fun Guy, respectively). What I believe was intended to be the case was that what we call Needlenose is supposed to be its graphic as a basic projectile and what we call Spiked Fun Guy is supposed to be its graphic as a more standard enemy. Mind, the original Yossy Island guide doesn't have this sentence and both versions also include Bouncing Bullet Bill together with Bullet Bill, which was later split in the Yoshi's New Island guide. Still, the fact that traditional Pokeys do show up in Yoshi's New Island indicates that it's separate from one or both of these. I think of them more like the predecessor to Pokey Heads than a real redesign of Pokey. LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:45, 20 December 2018 (EST)

1) I think that the "describes Needlenoses" argument is not fairly valid, as it only mentions Needlenoses when it's the entry of the enemies that shoot them. It erroneously implies that Spiked Fun Guy hangs on Baron von Zeppelins. 2) Its design is much more closer to Pokey that what is Needlenose. (SMB2 even had it green) 3) Please note that Doc von Schmeltwick told me how off-model enemies are in this game. (take Bullet Bill and Boo to name a few) Bullet Bill was larger and was green. 4) SMB2 enemies reappear in this game, including Shy Guys, Snifits, and also, note that Tweeters we're planned to appear as seen in the unused sprite. I still think that "Spiked Fun Guy" is another insanely redesigned enemy "Pokey", as it has the same Japanese name. Yoshi's New Island doesn't mention Needlenoses on Pokey's entry, so Needlenoses are separate from this one, thus, Spiked Fun Guy is the Pokey itself and thus, should be merged. It also acts much more like a Pokey than what Needlenoses did, as it is just an enemy rather than an enemy and a projectile. Should i bring it up on its talk page rather than bringing it up here? -- FanOfYoshi at 05:39, 9 February 2019 (EST)

Anyways, after my final decision with Spiked Fun Guy (which i removed the merge template), i think it should be kept as-is. -- FanOfYoshi at 13:21, July 17, 2019 (EDT)

Zelda series

"Spark" is also the name of an identically-acting obstacle in the Zelda series, appearing in A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, Oracle of Seasons/Ages, and The Minish Cap. Considering they act the same, we list other Mario enemies' appearances in those games, and us grouping the DKJr and SMB2 entities together is already working a bit under assumption, would it be agreeable to note this on the page? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:09, February 4, 2021 (EST)

Seems quite reasonable to me, although I should point out that unlike other Mario enemies, these don't have a figurine in the Switch version of Link's Awakening. Nightwicked Bowser 16:06, February 4, 2021 (EST)

Neither do Podoboo or Thwimp. They seem to exempt the "obstacles" from it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:35, February 4, 2021 (EST)

I've added it under "trivia" like how the Nitpicker from Ice Climber is handled, but I'm not sure if they're supposed to deliberately be the same thing. Hyrule/Zelda Encyclopedia (which is a whole other can of worms) doesn't mention it as being from the Mario series unlike the other ones, for whatever that's worth, but it also does bizarre things like the former splitting the Chain Chomp from A Link to the Past, despite numerous sources stating otherwise. LinkTheLefty (talk) 05:00, March 10, 2022 (EST)

OK, spotted evidence that they had the same Sparks in mind. Check out here, under "gomi7.CGX" - sure, there are a few Zelda enemies like Bubble/Anti-Faerie, but generally speaking, Spark is listed among the other series cameos (and there's even a scrapped Fighterfly). LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:37, April 11, 2022 (EDT)

separate pyro dangle from spark

In addition to the Japanese name and the fact that they are spherical creatures stuck to a wall that they really have the most in common to consider themselves one, we already had the case of the SMW2 pokeys so I don't understand why this article is still together, one is electric and the other is fire and has vulnerable moments, it is also worth highlighting its reappearance in Yoshi New Island where if it were really a spark its name and appearance should already be updated, I propose that we separate them Sorbetti (talk)

Both of them are electrical fires and they have similar "mask" eyes. They seem to be the same to me. Also, they were merged by a proposal. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:11, February 20, 2025 (EST)

in which other game the spark have appeared with a confirmed fire appearance and not because of the limited coloration of that time Sorbetti (talk) In a hypothetical case, if Spark and Hothead and Li'l Sparky had the same name in Japanese, should we merge them since they have similar mechanics? That proposal arose and was finalized before Yoshi New Island where Piro Dangle reappears, implying that it is not a redesign but a different species.

Also their eyes are almost nothing alike, the Spark have more "normal" eyes while the Piro Dangle have ones similar to Friguy Sorbetti (talk)

The proposal happened only a little less than three years ago. Also, the eyes hereMedia:SMA Spark Artwork.jpg and hereMedia:SMA3-PiroDangleFireless.png look pretty similar-shaped to me. Sumo Bros' attacks have also gone between fiery and electrical, so it's hardly unique here. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:10, February 20, 2025 (EST)

There are a few things you seem to be forgetting. You say that the enemy's name should have been updated in Yoshi's New Island, as if it was named "Piro Dangle" in that appearance, but it actually goes unnamed in that game. Also, Sparks (named as such!) also make cameo appearances in the Zelda series and, in The Minish Cap, they use a very similar design to the one from the Yoshi's Island series. Compare:

• 

  "Spark" from The Minish Cap

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  "Piro Dangle" from Yoshi's Island

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  Yoshi's New Island

Blinker (talk) 09:26, February 20, 2025 (EST)

So you don't think that piro dangle is the new spark, I say that since its appearance it has been the most used design so far, leaving the old design behind, shouldn't the page be updated to its new design or is the other one still used? Sorbetti (talk)

The new design doesn't have artwork as far as we know, unfortunately. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:13, February 20, 2025 (EST)

I understand, I think it should at least be mentioned on the page until a new illustration that this is the new design Sorbetti (talk)

Split and reorganize this page

I've been doing a lot of research and thinking, and due to the Japanese names and appearances, we have two distinct individuals merged into this page. Spark refers solely to the enemy from Super Mario Bros. USA, as his later reappearances are tied to that game. Piro Dangle is a redesign of the generic enemy from Donkey Kong Jr, as it has the same name, and his later appearances have consistently had this appearance.

• 

  "Spark" from The Minish Cap

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  "Piro Dangle" from Yoshi's Island

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  Yoshi's New Island

Sorbetti (talk) 19:06, April 14, 2025 (EDT)

Main issue there is the YI ones seem to have the eyes of the SMB2 ones (specifically, when the palette flash darkens them) and the later Magnet Sparkies are based on the DKJr ones with the appearance of the SMB2 ones. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:42, April 14, 2025 (EDT)

Well, of course, here you can clearly see that the SMB2 ones are a variant of the original Sparks (Pyro Dangle) while Magnet Sparky is just a magnetic variant inspired by the SMB2 Sparks. Sorbetti (talk) 19:54, April 14, 2025 (EDT)

The SMUSA/SMB2 depiction being listed separately in Daijiten is just being cautious/literal about name changes, like splitting Lady/Pauline, the Mario Bros. enemies, Bee Fly, etc. Probably from confusing Spark and its wire trap version. For what its worth, I have Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic Hisshō Kōryakuhō, where Spark's name seems to come from (being one of the few enemies not mentioned in the manual, along with Tweeter and Flurry), and pg.22 (with its artwork) has「スパック」labeled but「スパーク」in the description. Also consider that this is pre-Web days and likely just someone's honest mistranliteration. Daijiten even includes a chart because SMUSA wasn't shy about SMB2 names, and Spark is listed under both spellings. There isn't much worth splitting here. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:00, April 15, 2025 (EDT)

I think there's value in it, especially because it would clear up confusion. The SMB2 Sarks had a consistent design throughout their appearances in games and media, even with a variant called Magnet Sparky. Meanwhile, the Sparks have varied constantly, with the Yoehi Island version being the one that remains stable to this day. Sorbetti (talk) 10:35, April 15, 2025 (EDT)

I'm somewhat in support of re-splitting Piro Dangle from this page. Not because I think the wiki should prioritize its English name (the Nintendo Power guide it comes from was rife with nicknames and distinctions that future official material disavowed), but simply because it has immediately observable aspects that distinguish it from both DK Jr. and SMB2 Sparks: a different appearance and the unique pattern of turning itself out periodically. In addition, with the only enemies clearly derived from Super Mario Bros. 2 to reappear in Yoshi's Island being Shy Guy and a bullet-shooting variant of Shy Guy, there is no strong circumstantial evidence that the developers stylistically intended Piro Dangle to be a call back to its wall-crawling precursors. There's better arguments to merge Sparky (Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3) into this page, frankly, and I wouldn't support that.

I understand and agree that a subject's identity is often strongly suggested by its Japanese name, given that the franchise and many of its games are developed in Japan. For instance, I'm still in strong support of splitting the location of Yoshi's Island from its Yo'ster Island incarnation on that basis; and I think treating Big Bertha as an early large-sized Cheep Cheep is a good call. However, Supāku ("Spark") doesn't seem like such a definitory, creative name for a creature that is essentially a large flaring ball, not to the degree that it should solely decide a connection with a similarly-named enemy. Even if this were a Japanese wiki, I wouldn't find it absurd if this page were split between "Supakku" and "Supāku (Yoshi's Island)". In case better evidence emerges to show these are intended to be the same enemy, I'll defer to that.

That said, based on what LinkTheLefty showed above regarding the DK Jr. Sparks/"Globes", I'd say they're still better off covered on the same page as the SMB2 Spark. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 10:40, April 15, 2025 (EDT)

Split Piro Dangle and Spark (Super Mario Bros. 2)

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

canceled by proposer
Hello everyone, welcome to this loooong proposal. This Spark problem has been troubling me for a long time, so what better way to fix it than at once? I know this proposal is quite lengthy, but I ask that you read all before voting. There's nothing to lose.

This proposal will be divided into 2 minisections, first talking about Spark, second about Piro Dangle. Without further ado let's begin.

Spark (SMB2)

1. Naming

Spark has its own Japanese name, which, despite being similar to Globe name, is distinct. There has also never been any mixing of names, so the Japanese names are consistently and well established.

2. Appearance

We have the representations and illustrations of how the enemy looks, which is clear: a black ball with two red eyes.

• 
• 
• 
• 

Which contrasts with Globe appearance: a fire oval with eyes and a halo around it

• 
• 

3. Behavior

Globe has two variations, which are among its main gimmicks: the red one stay on the platform, and the blue one goes down the ropes. While Spark is the classic platform enemy, he is much faster than Globe and has several methods to defeat him, unlike Globe, which is invincible.

4. Distinctions

We have important pages like Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten that list them as different Sparks. And while Perfect Ban has treated subjects that are clearly the same as distinct entities, they do so by overlooking that the subject had appeared previously, not highlighting that it is a variant or anything. In contrast, Perfect Ban emphasizes the relationship between Spark and Globe, considering Spark an American-born Globe.

スパーク (JP) / Wire Trap (EN)
	Original text (Japanese)		Translation
	種族しゅぞく	ウエポン族ぞく	Tribe	Weapon clan
	性格せいかく	一直線いっちょくせん	Disposition	Straight line
	登場とうじょうゲーム	ＪＲジュニア、ＧＢゲームボーイドンキー	Game appearances	Jr., GB Donkey
	火花ひばなを散ちらす電気でんきのかたまり ＪＲジュニアでは、床ゆかを走はしり回まわっているので、すきを見みて一気いっきに走はしり抜ぬけよう。ＧＢゲームボーイでは、ロープの上うえを伝つたってやってくるからとにかく避さけよう。どちらも触ふれれば感電死かんでんししてしまうぞ。		A lump of electricity that emits sparks In JR, they are running around on the floor, so you have to run past them at once when you see a chance; in GB, they are moving over the ropes, so avoid them at all costs. In both cases, you will be electrocuted if you touch them.

スパック (JP) / Spark (EN)
	Original text (Japanese)		Translation
	種族しゅぞく	ウエポン族ぞく	Tribe	Weapon clan
	性格せいかく	あきらめが悪わるい	Disposition	Reluctant to give up
	登場とうじょうゲーム	ＵＳＡユーエスエー	Game appearances	USA
	アメリカ生うまれのスパーク スパークと同おなじく電気でんきのかたまりで、ブロックの回まわりを走はしっている。ジャンプで避さけながら進すすんでいこう。カギやキノコブロックがあれあば、これをぶつけて倒たおせる。		American-born Spark Like Spark, it is a mass of electricity and runs around blocks. Jump to avoid them as you go. If you have a key or Mushroom Block, you can hit it with them to defeat it.

5. Spark (SMB2) variant

There is a variant of Sparks called Magnet Sparky in English and Magunetto Supākī in Japanese. This variant is completely identical in appearance to Sparks (SMB2), so you can see how Spark (SMB2) has maintained its stable design. This design is not related in any way to Globe.

• 

  Is this a variant of

• 

  this?

• 

• 

  Or wouldn't it be a variant of

• 

  this?

• 

Although the design may be a little different, it is because it is the updated design, in (2006) Magnet Sparkys looked like this

• 

6. No official merge

There is no official material that considers Sparks and Globes the same, and the only one that does treats them as separate enemies, so the very concept of merging them is entirely conjectural.

To summarize

1. Unique and consistent name in Japanese
2. Official distinction that separates it from Globe
3. Different and consistent appearance
4. Has a variant that maintains the same appearance
5. No official material for merging them

Those are the main reasons for splitting it, after the Piro Dangle section we will see how this would improve the current status of the page.

Piro Dangle

We have reached the truly difficult part of the proposal, although the Spark (SMB2) division is easy to understand and follow, the Piro Dangle one is not, which is why this part is going to be much more elaborate. The first thing you need to understand is that Piro Dangle will not, under any circumstances, be keept merged with Globe. This is because its design is clearly inspired by Spark (SMB2). This is consistent with the inspiration that Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island had from Super Mario Bros., with enemies like Shy Guys, Snifits, Pokeys, and Porcupo.

Just look at the designs and you'll find the similarities.

• 
• 

This is clear, however, I don't think it should remain merged with Spark (SMB2). I think it should be considered a variant, as I'll demonstrate with my arguments below.

1. Appearance

First here we can see how a consistent appearance has been maintained in the designs of Piro Dangle

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  Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (1995)

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  Yoshi's New Island (2014)

• 

  Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (1995)

• 

  Yoshi's New Island (2014)

Seeing this, it is clear how the Piro Dangle design is established, A white ball with eyes and a mouth that heats up, causing it to turn into fire.

2. Descriptions

Piro Dangle's descriptions contradict those of Spark (SMB2).

While Spark has been described as a mass of electricity:

スパック (JP) / Spark (EN)
	Original text (Japanese)		Translation
	種族しゅぞく	ウエポン族ぞく	Tribe	Weapon clan
	性格せいかく	あきらめが悪わるい	Disposition	Reluctant to give up
	登場とうじょうゲーム	ＵＳＡユーエスエー	Game appearances	USA
	アメリカ生うまれのスパーク スパークと同おなじく電気でんきのかたまりで、ブロックの回まわりを走はしっている。ジャンプで避さけながら進すすんでいこう。カギやキノコブロックがあれあば、これをぶつけて倒たおせる。		American-born Spark Like Spark, it is a mass of electricity and runs around blocks. Jump to avoid them as you go. If you have a key or Mushroom Block, you can hit it with them to defeat it.

Piro Dangle has consistently been described as a fire enemy associated with blazes and light

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island

• Shogakukan guide: 暗闇の中で、壁に沿って動いている。火が消えて白くなったときをねらって、通り抜けよう。(They move along walls in the dark. Try to get by when their blaze goes out and they turn white.)
• Player's Guide: Mr. P.D. jealously guards a secret cache of coins in Burt the Bashful's Fort.

Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3

• Shogakukan guide: 暗やみの中で、かべに沿って動いている。火が消えて白くなったスキに、通りぬけよう (They move along walls in the dark. Get by when their blaze goes out and they turn white.)

Yoshi's New Island

• Shogakukan guide: 一定の間隔で光を放ち、ゆっくりと移動すろ。光を照明がわりにして暗い部屋を進もう。光ったときだけ、触れるとダメージを受ける。倒すことはできない (Emits a blaze at regular intervals and moves slowly. Use the blaze as a light source to advance through the dark room. If you touch it, you will take damage only when it blazes. It cannot be defeated.)

Even his English name emphasizes his fire part, Piro Dangle. Also in other languages they have also been described as fire enemies

So what we have here are completely different enemy descriptions, fire and electricity are not the same.

I'm aware that the name supaku (spark) can refer to both sparks of fire and electricity, but there's something that hasn't been taken into consideration: the names in Japanese....

3. Naming

Let's return to the Spark (SMB2) naming section. As mentioned, Spark (SMB2) is the only one with a unique name other than Globe, so what does this mean? It means these two entities are the same.

• 
• 

Which is totally crazy, not only do they look different and act differently but they also appear in completely different franchises So it has the same name as Globe, but it's completely different. But at the same time, it's quite similar to Spark (SMB2), but it doesn't share the same name. This is too strange.

4. Behavior

While both enemies share the same concept, which is that they are wall enemies, they both do so in different ways, as shown below.

Spark (SMB2)

Piro Dangle

As you can see, while Spark (SMB2) is your classic wall enemy, Piro Dangle goes for a more different idea, an enemy that momentarily turns off and then turns back on, a behavior that continued until Yoshi's New Island. These are well established differences that have not been mixed together in any way.

5. No official merge and similar case

Aside from these entities sharing the same Japanese name and possessing similar mechanics, they have not received any official treatment that merges them as the same being or iterations thereof. A similar situation occurs with Panser and Volcano Lotus, which have the same Japanese name and extremely similar mechanics (fire-breathing plants). However, we are keeping them separate because they are clearly different enemies and also because Volcano Lotus was designed to be a variant of Lava Lotus. However, that does not prevent us from continuing to consider them relatives, which we should do here as well.

6. But why do they behave in a similar way?

There are quite a few enemies that spin around in a fire/electricity ball mechanic that travels along walls or floors, such as: Li'l Sparky, Guriguri, Hothead, Denki, etc. Mechanically speaking, there are more differences between Spark (Super Mario Bros. 2) and Piro Dangle than among all of the aforementioned, so the only reason we have these two enemies merged is because of their Japanese names.

7. So why do they share the same name?

If all these enemies are different entities, why do they have the same or similar names? This is fairly easy to answer: the name "Supāku" isn't a proper noun but rather a generic term commonly used in Japan, which causes several enemies share the same name, such as Wire Trap. The same applies to the name "Spark" That's why there are so many enemies with that name, like Sparky (Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3), Spark (Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope) and Spark (Wario Land 3), because it's a commonly used generic term.

To summarize

1. Different appearance
2. Different descriptions
3. Different names
4. Different behavior
5. No official merge or anything else

Already finishing

Before finishing, I will address some doubts that remain unanswered.

1. Why is this proposal necessary? What benefits does it provide?

When you enter the page, you are presented with the artwork of Spark (Super Mario Bros. 2), followed by a brief summary of the enemy in general. However, after passing the Donkey Kong series, the enemy changes mechanics, appearance, and Japanese name, which is quite confusing. To top it off, after finishing the "Super Mario Bros. 2" section, we enter the Yoshi series, which once again changes the appearance, name, and behavior of the enemy. This can be confusing for new readers, and the page seems to present more than just one enemy; it ultimately presents different entities with varying appearances and behaviors. Under this same perspective of the page, it is not surprising that perhaps over time, more similar enemies will begin to merge, forming an amalgam of electric/fire enemies that can pass through walls. Therefore, I think a division would be the best way to clean up this page and present each entity in an orderly manner.

2. Where will the TLOZ Spark information go?

The Spark from TLOZ is one of the main reasons to keep these enemies merged; however, we forget that the Spark from TLOZ has never had a clear design since the beginning, and more than anything, it has changed according to the electric enemy present at that time in the Super Mario franchise.

• 

  First Spark's design does not resemble any other enemy of its time.

• 

  First redesign alongside the blue one, inspired by the Red Globe

• 
• 

  Inspired by the Blue Globe

• 

• 

  Second redesign, keeps the smiling face but is now accompanied by a halo of electricity, inspired by Piro Dangle, the most recent "Spark" like enemy at the time

• 

• 

  Third redesign, it resembles its first sprite, inspired by Amp

• 

• 

  Last redesign: a green version of the Spark from TLOZLA.

As you can see, TLOZ's Spark is an amalgamation of several electric/fire enemies, and only in more recent installments has it returned to its origins. Honestly, I prefer this enemy to have its own page, but for now, i think the right thing to do is to leave it temporarily on the Globe page because, at the time this Spark made its debut, other Sparks didn't exist yet.

3. Final arguments and time to vote

The reasons for separating Spark (SMB2) from Globe are numerous. Starting with the fact that they do not share the same Japanese name, the only official description of Globe separates it from Spark and categorizes them as distinct entities. It can also be observed that in all of Spark's descriptions, it is not mentioned that its origins are from Donkey Kong Jr.; rather, it is treated as a new entity. We must also consider that the enemy was initially designed for Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic, so its behavior may simply be a coincidence. In terms of design, Spark's appearance has been consistent across various media and has even retained its design through a variant called Magnet Spark, which shares the same look. Finally, we can see that the enemy has a different name, appears differently, is officially classified as distinct, and has never been confused with Globe in any official media, either in names or appearances.

Now with Piro Dangle, as I mentioned above, Piro Dangle has the same name in Japanese as Globe, so in case of refusing to split it, it will remain in the Globe page under one of the arguments with which it was merged in the first place. Now, notably and at first glance, Piro Dangle is clearly inspired by Spark, both in parts of its design and in its behavior, but unlike enemies like Mace Penguin or Flopsy Fish, Piro Dangle is far from the concept of Spark, as more than an electric being, it is one of fire, as can be seen in its descriptions. Not only is it made of a different material, but it also does not behave the same way, since Piro Dangle is much slower and, from time to time, it turns off and then turns back on. Following this, as we saw, Spark has its established design, as seen with Magnet Sparky, so considering Piro Dangle as a redesign is not very coherent. Like Spark, no description of Piro Dangle has mentioned its past origins, but rather that it is a new enemy, which has maintained both appearance and behavior until Yoshi's New Island (2014). Piro Dangle was probably designed as a variant of Spark, just like Harry Hedgehog, which is a variant of Porcupo, but its Japanese name unfortunately remained the same as Needlenose and Spiked Fun Guy, since both share the same name with the enemy they derive from.

As you can see, while similar, each enemy is distinct in its own way, and more importantly, they have not officially merged. Therefore, the current state of the page is conjectural. Finally, I do not like the current state of the page at all. Unlike other pages with enemies that have a long history, this page seems to change enemies from time to time, resulting in a Frankenstein page that groups various entities behaving similarly and treats them as the same subject. This page is not discussing a generic subject like cows, penguins, etc, where we group various subjects under the same concept of real life. Instead, this page speaks about a specific fictional enemy! However, the enemy changes its appearance, behavior, and name in each section. This isn't comparable to the evolution of an enemy because, while there, the enemy evolves to adapt to a new design, it is treated as the same entity over time. Here, they aren't regarded as the same being, and the "designs" and mechanics are interspersed over time. If Piro Dangle is meant to be the redesign, why then revert to the SMB2 design with Magnet Sparky?

If we continue with the current state of the page, it would be normal for other similar enemies, like Wire Trap, to begin merging here. This is due to the page's erratic behavior, similar to that of a generic subject, grouping everything that behaves similarly or looks alike into the same place.

Not to mention that currently, and in general, instead of referring to they just as Sparks, quite a few people use the name Piro Dangle to refer to the Spark from SMW2YI. The same happens with the others Sparks, where people refer to they as Spark from Donkey Kong Jr. or Spark from Super Mario Bros. 2. If they are all the same entity, why we refer to each of his appearances differently? I know that within the evolution of an enemy, they tend to change a lot, but they don't change in each series in which they appear, both in appearance and in the way they behave. Having each subject on their own page would facilitate navigation and the way of referring to each enemy, allowing for better order and structure to their pages while avoiding confusion and misunderstandings.

Phew, that was it. Here, I'll leave my draft page to give you an idea of how the pages would look. Keep in mind that this is not the final version, but a prototype, and that after the proposal, any errors will be corrected.

I ask that if you have any questions or concerns, please leave them in the comments before voting, so i can help you. Without anything else to add, it's time to vote.

Proposer: Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: August 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Split Spark (SMB2) and Piro Dangle from Globe (Support)

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.

Do Nothing (Oppose)

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - "Round electrical fire that climbs along the walls and ceilings" with the same name seems pretty straightforward. Also, Magnet Sparky is based on DKJr Spark while resembling SMB2 Spark, SMW2 Spark resembles SMB2 Spark with more reach and inverted color eyes (sorta looking like a FryGuy mask), and the Perfect Ban description for SMB2 Spark just says it's the American counterpart. They're the same thing.
2. YoYo (talk) Per Doc
3. DryBonesBandit (talk) Even if they were meant to be different, they all do the exact same thing and would be better merged like Frost Piranha. Per Doc.
4. Power Flotzo (talk) Per Doc and the other two.
5. Blinker (talk) Per my comments below.

Electric Comments

@Doc von Schmeltwick I already explained in the proposal about shared behavior; I also described its numerous differences, which are even greater than those of other enemies that go through walls. As far as I know, in Donkey Kong Jr., there were no sparks limited by a magnetic surface, so its only inspiration is that of any enemy that goes through walls. You also proved another point: if it is assumed that all sparks are the same subject, why do we always refer to a specific appearance as Sparks (SMW2YI) instead of just spark? Because it acts differently and looks different from the other sparks. While in Perfect Ban it is treated as a variant, it is not treated as the same, and even comparisons are made, in addition to highlighting that this one is defeatable, unlike Globe. Furthermore, you have not addressed the different names that exist, the notable differences between each individual, the fact that they have never officially merged, and the main reason for why i Made the proposal. I would like to see your argument against all that. Sorbetti (talk) 11:19, August 5, 2025 (EDT)

@YoYo Not to bother or force you, but I would like you to elaborate on your argument. What aspects do you agree with Doc on? Why are you primarily against the proposal? Sorbetti (talk) 12:07, August 5, 2025 (EDT)

don't confront everyone who disagrees with your proposal. i agree with Doc because the points he says are true and make sense, i do not need to elaborate for Doc has already done the explaining. - YoYo (Talk) 12:21, August 5, 2025 (EDT)

Like I said, I'm not confronting; I'm mainly interested in your point of view. It's not like I do the same with everyone; I don't have that much time or interest. I did it with Doc because it's common in a proposal for debates or arguments to arise. In your case, I simply wanted to know the reason for your vote, don't take it personally. Besides, this proposal cost me a lot of work compared to others, so if there is going to be an big argument against it, I hope it is quite clear and addresses the points I proposed. However, Doc's vote does not completely cover the proposal, so I answered his vote, and since you agree with what she said, I wanted to know why, more specifically. Sorbetti (talk) 12:38, August 5, 2025 (EDT)

Okay, I'm just going to write down my thoughts as I read through this enormous proposal...

• First, the "globe". You mention an enemy "Magnet Sparky", which as you note, has a very similar appearance to the Sparks from SMB2. Strangely, the name "Magnet Sparky" seems to be based on an enemy from the previous game, known in Japanese as "Sparky", even though the two don't have much in common. Otherwise, I don't have much to say about this, if only because there's just not much to say about the Donkey Kong Jr. enemy. That said, in response to "And while Perfect Ban has treated subjects that are clearly the same as distinct entities, they do so by overlooking that the subject had appeared previously, not highlighting that it is a variant or anything"... that's just not true? Just look at Sidestepper, with it's two distinct entries!
• Now, for the Yoshi's Island enemy.
  • First, let's address the gameplay differences. Yes, it occasionally goes out. Almost every enemy in the game has gameplay differences compared to prior appearances. Goombas aren't defeated when stomped. Piranha plants stay in place and can be found almost anywhere, instead of going in and out of pipes, and they grow and shrink based on how close Yoshi is. Lakitus aim their Spiny Eggs in a straight line, indicated by a reticle, instead of throwing them in an arc. Spiny Eggs burst instead of turning into Spinies. And this isn't even getting into the Cheep Cheeps and Pokeys.
  • Secondly, the naming difference. Now, this might be a fair point if you were arguing that the two are unrelated, but we already agree that the Yoshi's Island enemy is pretty clearly based on the Spark from SMB2. I ask then, if they have different names because they are different things, why would that different name be just "Spark" instead of "Spack"? If the name difference is due to some meaningful differences between the two, why is the name difference just a subtle pronunciation difference? In a game where variants of preexisting enemies generally have names like "Hone Pukupuku", "Yuurei Hey-ho" or "Heading Sanbo". Blinker (talk) 12:42, August 5, 2025 (EDT)

Thank you for these points. Now I will answer them as much as I can.

1. According to the names, Magnet Sparky would be based on Wire Trap, which is super inconsistent, not only do they not look alike, but they also do not act the same, which again proves my point that the Spark names are very poorly managed.
2. Yes, I did not take into account the crab, however, unlike Spark, both individuals blatantly use the same artwork, and without taking into account the zero change in mechanics and appearance in both games, unlike Spark and Globe, where notable differences stand out.
3. Yes, Goombas, Lakitus, and others take on new mechanics, however, they do not change their composition, much less their appearance. Even though Lakitus, Piranha Plants, and Cheep-Cheeps act a little differently, you can still recognize them with the eye, unlike Piro Dangle, which you must inspect carefully to find the similarities.
4. We already saw that Piro Dangle has the same Japanese name as Globe, so it does not share a name with Spark (SMB2), the game also features other variants that share the same name with the enemy they are based on, such as Spiked Fun Guy or Needlenose, and even Bouncing Bullet Bill, Bull's Eye Bills, or Bubble Dayzze. Sorbetti (talk) 13:22, August 5, 2025 (EDT)

Thanks for the response.

1. Yeah, this is all very messy, isn't it? Still, it shows that the lines between these enemies are kinda blurry, which is one reason I'm not really sold on these splits.
2. Well, it makes sense they use the same artwork: they look the same, as has been mentioned. I'm not contesting that, it's just the specific point about the separate profiles that isn't very strong. (Oh, by the way, Figher Fly actually has different bits of artwork between its two profiles. For some reason? That's not important at all, I just think it's weird.)
3. I think you're overstating the differences in appearance a little, but yes, the design received some changes.
4. I'm not sure what you're getting at with those examples though? My point was that your argument for splitting the YI enemy hinges on the idea that they looked at the SMB2 enemy, decided to give it a variant that looks and acts mostly the same aside from having larger, more flame-like sparks that occasionally go out, decided to give it a new name to distinguish it from the SMB2 version... and the name they came up with was "Spark", as opposed to the original's name of "Spack". That's hard to believe, I feel.

Blinker (talk) 15:38, August 5, 2025 (EDT)

Yes, it is totally confusing, which is the main reason why all these enemies were merged in the first place. Even Magnet Spark was kept here for a while because it didn't even have a proper name. Both Magnet Sparky and Wire Trap have the internal name Spark. This, along with all other enemies that are also called Sparek in English, only shows that Nintendo has little to no interest in these individuals and gives similar or identical names to all those that act similarly. However, that does not dictate that they are the same, especially when they have been treated as different entities and when each one has its own unique description. The fact that there are several individuals who behave more similarly to the original Globe but have their own page only for their name is fair. However, that Spark is kept merged has its own Japanese name and is different in several aspects from Globe, and has been officially classified as different, is totally unfair. Like Piro Dangle, it has all the characteristics to be a variant and is different enough in appearance and mechanics to be a different being. But thanks to its Japanese name, which it does not even share with Spark, and comparing it to Globe, with whom it has no relation, is very similar to what happened with Magnet Sparky, who was supposed to be a variant of Wire Trap by its Japanese name, despite not sharing anything more than the fact that both are electrical beings. The only thing we currently do with this is merge things that are similar without any official evidence other than similar Japanese names, which I would compare to "Everything but the kitchen sink," where we put together subjects without any solid evidence other than names, having information that contradicts it, having similar cases of similar subjects that also have the same Japanese names but are clearly different and with that each subject is distinct enough and has enough history to warrant its own page. I know the Sparks situation is confusing, but I see more value in having each one on its own page than having them all on one, as this creates inconvenience among users, like those I mentioned in section 3. Final arguments and time to vote. We don't lose anything, and we can gain better navigation while avoiding more confusion. Sorbetti (talk) 23:18, August 6, 2025 (EDT)

Other enemies in YI have different names in the game too. Not to mention, recurring enemies like Goomba also have different appearances that, while still are recognizable, are also not identical. This is the same with Piro Dangle.

"Magnet Sparky" does not have to be based on Wire Trap. It could easily have simply been named based on Spark and happened to be the same as Wire Trap. There is no good reason for it to be based on Wire Trap in name. This is me, D-B-B! 14:07, August 5, 2025 (EDT)

It can be understood in the case of Frost Piranha because there were only two subjects, but here, if the argument is that they are similar and should stay together, then over time, other similar enemies could begin to join too. Additionally, unlike Frost Piranha, no official merge has occurred here, and the closest thing we have to one divides them as different entities. This is not a page about generic subjects to start adding everything that is similar, that is not how enemy pages work. In that case, we should begin merging enemies that behave the same under the argument that "it is not worth it for them to have their own page" Sorbetti (talk) 14:44, August 5, 2025 (EDT)

There are three Frost Piranhas. All are Piranha Plants that spit ice at Mario. They are not all based on each other, but are all the same concept used independently of past appearances. This is the exact situation of Spark. This is me, D-B-B! 18:58, August 5, 2025 (EDT)

To be fair, the Frost Piranhas have all been consistently called the same thing outside of one Prima guide, and I don't think it's that unlikely that the one in Mario Kart World is based on previous appearances (it wouldn't be the weirdest pull in a game with the likes of Batadon). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 20:14, August 5, 2025 (EDT)