Talk:List of common and notable enemies in the Super Mario series

From the Super Mario Wiki, the Mario encyclopedia

Point[edit]

So this is just a less-detailed version of the List of enemies? If you've added so many entries to a list that is supposed to cover the general basics of a series that you feel that it is necessary to split the list, perhaps the issue is instead that you have too many entries. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 20:59, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

Nah, the entries are all valid, it's just that the Super Mario series is a big series. It's not just a less-detailed list, as the top clearly states, as "list of enemies" includes enemies from the other subfranchises, like Paper Maro and Yoshi. I should have named it "List of enemies in the Super Mario series", but really, they're all common or notable in various ways. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:06, 18 July 2017 (CT)
There are definitely quite a few entries that could be removed, in my opinion. The Super Mario page is supposed to be a broad overview of the entire series, so is it really necessary to include enemies with small or few appearances, like Waddlewings, Skipsqueaks, Ant Troopers, Peepas, Biddybuds, Eep Cheeps, Topmen, and others? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 21:09, 18 July 2017 (EDT)
Firstly, Biddybuds and Peepas are very common in the games they appear in. Waddlewings are extremely common within a few levels, as are Topmen, Ant Troopes, Eep-Cheeps, and Waddlwings. "Common" doesn't necessary mean from a series-wide perspective. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:12, 18 July 2017 (CT)
Considering that the chart is on the series page, it should, tbh. And I'm just going to post here what I've said on my talk page for a consistent record:
Splitting would've been avoided if you took my earlier suggestion to do a "Related enemies" bar and not made the list that large. Not every enemy and obstacle needs to be added, otherwise we'd just say "Take a look at the List of enemies." I realize there is a large amount of enemies and obstacles in the main Super Mario series, and while I think you've done a good job with the chart, I also think there needs to be some re-thinking here. Even Yoshi's Island (series) and Donkey Kong Country (series) don't list everything. Alex95sig1.pngAlex95sig2.png 21:15, 18 July 2017 (EDT)
Even if they're particularly common in one or two games, that does not mean that they need to be listed in what is supposed be a list that overlooks the entire series. Again, this list is for the broad Super Mario series, which has several titles, so listing an enemy that appears so infrequently in them is simply unnecessary, especially when you've already made concerns about the size of the list. Per Alex in all regards. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 21:17, 18 July 2017 (EDT)
"List of enemies" is just an inconvenient fallback, because it tells you nothing about said enemies, just the names and the first time they appeared, and includes things from comics and stuff. This includes pictures and a short blurb to tell about them, and as such is perfect for newcomers and just as a general overview of enemies. And, for instance, what you said would knock Gooble out, despite being the absolute single-most common enemy in that particular game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:24, 18 July 2017 (CT)

I'm just going to say, every enemy, no matter what, contributes something to the Super Mario series. So I'm agreeing with Doc here. Luigi Emblem Winter Games.jpg 21:27, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

Unless you're planning on giving a picture and blurb to every single enemy here, it's a necessary fallback. As you've said, this is a general overview of enemies. Throwing too many enemies at users will just bog them down; compromises need to be made. Also, Gooble should not be included on this list at all. Also, @Skuchi: does that mean you genuinely want every single enemy in the Super Mario series to be listed here? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 21:28, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

YES. Because no matter how much they appear, they contribute something unique and new to the Super Mario series. I say we list the most common enemies to the least common enemies, but stay in game order. Luigi Emblem Winter Games.jpg 21:32, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

It'd be like we're introducing new users to the series by making them read a Terms of Service. Detailing every single enemy like that would become such a monstrously large block of text that nobody would be interested in reading. The more text you try to stuff into the same area, the more you'll disinterest potential readers. This is the reason we have individual articles and the entire wiki isn't on one single page. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 21:37, 18 July 2017 (EDT)
The problem is that the list is large, larger than it needs to be. And I can't think of anything else to say other than what's already been said: the chart needs to be scaled down. I agree every enemy is unique, but at the same time, do we really need to list Butterfly? Alex95sig1.pngAlex95sig2.png 21:38, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

"List of recurring enemies in the Super Mario series" perhaps? LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:40, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

It WOULD be a massive bore, if not for the pictures and the fact that the blurbs are being kept relatively short. List of enemies is FAR worse in the "bogging down" regard. As in, terribly so. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:46, 18 July 2017 (CT)
We're not here for amusement. Alex95sig1.pngAlex95sig2.png 21:48, 18 July 2017 (EDT)
I was responding to Turner's earlier statement of it bogging down new people too much >.> Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:54, 18 July 2017 (CT)
The list of enemies is supposed to be a comprehensive list, nothing more and nothing less, with extra emphasis on "comprehensive". Apologies if that doesn't catch your interest. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 21:49, 18 July 2017 (EDT)
And this is a comprehensive list for the flagship series, but more useful because the enemies can be recognized via the picture. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:54, 18 July 2017 (CT)

@Alex95: No, because Butterflies aren't really enemies. They're just aesthetic things, is all they are. Luigi Emblem Winter Games.jpg 21:47, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

If they're just aesthetic, then why are they listed? Actually, no, they can turn into Kuromames. Alex95sig1.pngAlex95sig2.png 21:48, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

I take it you've never punched a butterfly in SM64? I think a butterfly that turns into a giant homing black sphere counts as "notable". Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:49, 18 July 2017 (CT)

I agree that this list should be scaled down; I don't feel that enemies such as Kuromames that only appeared in one game, or enemies such as Boulders that only appear in one or two levels in the games they appear in are really "notable". --FlameChompNSMBW.pngTheFlameChomp (talk) 21:54, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

Hey guys, let's not get too heated here. I'm just trying to make sure everything's calm, so don't get mad at me for saying this. So yeah, I think this list is really legitimate. The Super Mario series is the core of the Mario franchise, who says it doesn't deserve a page of its enemies? Luigi Emblem Winter Games.jpg 21:56, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

We do, and it's called List of enemies. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 22:19, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

I meant the SUPER MARIO series, not the ENTIRE franchise! Luigi Emblem Winter Games.jpg 22:27, 18 July 2017 (EDT)

I'd just like to throw in my two cents and say I agree with Alex and Time Turner's above statements regarding the list's content. I feel like this is going a bit overboard, and since this is a list about the Super Mario series, the enemies/obstacles that would be worth adding to it are ones that have appeared throughout the series (e.g. Goombas, Koopas, Hammer Bros; many of the Super Mario Run enemies/obstacles would fall under this), while enemies/obstacles like Roto-disc, Wind Spirit and Chuckya, which have only appeared in one or two games in the series, should not be there.

Additionally, "notable" is a subjective term. With how it is now, it could lead to other users fighting over what enemies/obstacles would be considered "notable" or not, so I think just listing the recurring enemies/obstacles found in the series would be the better option. That said, I don't think this deserves its own article, and should just be listed on the series page instead. Ashley pose SMM.png Mario JC 00:56, 19 July 2017 (EDT)

Based on what I've heard so far, what Mario jc said appears to be supported. The list is not deserving of its own article, and should only cover common reoccurring enemies and obstacles in the Super Mario series. Alex95sig1.pngAlex95sig2.png 12:34, 23 July 2017 (EDT)