Talk:Count Down

Merge potential?

Is there viability in merging Count Down and Ring-a-Ding as "Watch (boss)"? Like Smilax and the cake, they're both two parts of the same object, with Count Down being labeled in the Shogakukan guide as the "watch's hand" and Ding-A-Ling its bell/alarm. The term "watch" comes from the game itself, if Count Down is beaten before Ring-a-Ding and it goes haywire with "The watch is broken!" (時計が　こわれた！！). LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:41, April 1, 2024 (EDT)

I guess, if the Shogakukan guide says Count Down's the hands, and nothing contradicts that, then sure. Though the fact that got translated as "watch" makes that title less, uh, compelling than if it was, say, "clock", it is what it is. Blinker (talk) 16:17, April 1, 2024 (EDT)

Merge Count Down and Ring-a-Ding as "watch (boss)"

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

merge as "Count Down" 1-8-5
See above. These are two parts of the same "watch" boss/object, and so, like cake and Smilax, they ought to occupy the same space.

Proposer: LinkTheLefty (talk)
Deadline: July 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to July 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to August 1, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Time for a merge!

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) Count me in.

Time for a merge! (as Count Down instead)

1. Waluigi Time (talk) Secondary option.
2. Arend (talk) See comments.
3. Pseudo (talk) Per Arend's commments. (Second choice) EDIT: Camwoodstock and DrippingYellow's votes have convinced me that this is probably the better of the two options, matching Exor from the same game.
4. LinkTheLefty (talk) A second too soon.
5. Blinker (talk) I'm down. Per, the comments.
6. Camwoodstock (talk) This makes the most sense to us. We merge boss body parts before--see Exor and his eyes and Neosquid mouth--but "watch" feels bordering on conjecture, as despite Technically™ being from the game itself, the full boss itself is almost never called just "watch" outside of a few status boxes. Count Down is the name more people are going to be familiar with, ergo, we should prioritize that.
7. DrippingYellow (talk) The remake basically confirms that Count Down is the whole clock, not part of it: the clock itself shakes when the player damages Count Down, and the glossary places the identification arrow for Count Down below the hourglass. The remake also shows that the Ring-a-Dings, though both attached to the clock, are separate entities that talk to each other, though I would personally rather they be merged here due to their hand-in-hand connection with Count Down.
8. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) My preferred choice.

Time to clock out!

1. PrincessPeachFan (talk) Nope. To me, watch is just a generic name and not its actual name.
2. Waluigi Time (talk) Per the comments, it seems reasonable to consider Count Down the name of the boss overall.
3. DrBaskerville (talk) Per all.
4. Shoey (talk) Per all.
5. DryBonesBandit (talk) Per all.

#Pseudo (talk) Per Jdtendo's comments.

Comments

Wouldn't Count Down be the name of the boss as a whole, instead of just the clock's hands? After all, we're not naming Exor something like "Sword (boss)" because only some glowing eyes in the skull-shaped pommel is being referred to as "Exor" in the boss battle. rend (talk) (edits) 20:54, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

"Watch" corresponds to the term used in the Shogakukan guide, which identifies Count Down and Ding-A-Ling as components of it. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:04, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

The Shogakukan guide claims that the hands are called メビウス　(時計の針), but in-game, the same hands are referred to as simply メビウス; this would essentially mean that, if the Shogakukan guide were being translated in English, the guide would've referred to the hands as "Count Down (Watch's Hands)" instead of simply "Count Down". (nvm, the guide also states the name of Ring-a-Ding to be リンリン　(時計のベル) instead of リンリン or メビウス　(時計のベル)). Furthermore, the remake displays the target of メビウス/Count Down to be the base of the clock (or the hourglass within), not the hands on the dial, as can be seen here and here, which further insinuates that the whole thing is called Count Down instead of only its face. rend (talk) (edits) 21:16, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

Eh, I'll add it as an option since it could be that ArtePiazza saw it differently, though I can confirm that the message "The watch is broken!" (時計とけいが　こわれた！！) still appears in the remake if Count Down is beaten before Ring-a-Ding. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:33, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

There's also this thing, which already showed a time-themed boss called Moebius. I would assume that in the final game, Moebius would still be the name of the time-themed boss, and not just a part of it. As for the Shogakukan guide, that's probably just because of how the rest of the watch is part of the background, which means the sprite for Moebius just shows the hands, and they interpreted that literally. Blinker (talk) 10:08, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

That's another reason why I brought up Exor, since his battle is a similar case. Not only because of multiple targets with different names, but also the target named "Exor" being the aforementioned pair of glowing eyes in the skull-shaped pommel... because outside of those, Exor's actual eyes, and his mouth, the entirety of him is the background, probably done so because it's a big boss with multiple interactable parts aside from itself (those being its eyes and mouth). Count Down is the same deal: the hands were assigned to be the target to bear the Count Down name because you cannot make the background itself a target, and you need to have some target. rend (talk) (edits) 21:13, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

Is there any official English source which refers to this boss as a "watch"? If not, the only known official name is「時計」(tokei) and thus this boss should be named "Tokei" if we merge Count Down and Ring-a-Ding. We cannot call it "Watch" if this English word is not used officially. Moreover,「時計」can refer to any type of clock (in this case, an alarm clock), not just watches. EDIT: I checked, the English version of the game does say "The watch is broken". However, that's when only Count Down is beaten, which may be interpreted as: only Count Down is the watch, and Ring-a-Dings (which are not broken yet) are not part of the watch itself (depending on how you interpret it). Jdtendo^(T|C) 03:54, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

The other closest mention I'm aware of would be the Nintendo Power Player's Guide, under Count Down on pg.102: "Slam down Count Down, then ring the bells of the two Ding-A-Lings up top. You’ll want to clean the clock first to ward off its impressive recovery magic. If you ease up at all, Count Down will decide it’s time to unleash a potent attack like the Aurora Flash. Rely on your Regular Attacks if you want to beat the fearsome threesome in a timely manner. Mario’s Jump Attacks don’t faze Count Down, but they really hurt his partners in chime." Note that it lists the cake under "Bundt & Raspberry" (57) and Smilax under "Megasmilax" (80), and it seems to have reversed the Jump weakness. LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:20, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

Just so we're all on the same page: first option merges Ring-a-Ding and Count Down as "watch (boss)", second option merges Ring-a-Ding and Count Down as "Count Down", and third option keeps Count Down and Ring-a-Ding split. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:45, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

Do we have internal filenames for Count Down in the Nintendo Switch version of the game, whether it refers to just the hands or the entire body? I feel that would help a lot too. rend (talk) (edits) 09:31, July 6, 2024 (EDT)

Good question. In the Data/StreamingAssets/aa/Switch/d_assets_ folder, we have cg_data-character-p1561_mevius.bundle and cg_data-character-p1562_ringring.bundle files, and the former contains the clock sans bells and the latter is just the bell. Note, also, that there exists cg_data-character-p1517_strawberry.bundle (top two cake layers), cg_data-character-p1518_raspberry.bundle (third/bottom caker layer), cg_data-character-p1536_tsubomi.bundle (Smilax bud), cg_data-character-p1537_queenflower.bundle (Megasmilax/parts), cg_data-character-p1557_caribre.bundle (Exor sword and parts), cg_data-character-p1558_righteye.bundle and cg_data-character-p1560_mouth.bundle (battle data?). LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:25, July 6, 2024 (EDT)

Rename Count Down to "Clock (boss)" or "watch (boss)"

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Do not rename 2-1-9
When the above proposal was made, the old Nintendo Power Source site wasn't factored. As it turns out, the site calls the boss "Clock" - in the boss list, composed of Count Down and Ding-A-Ling, and specifying that Count Down is the name of the face of the clock. This proposal is thus another shot at renaming the combined Count Down and Ring-a-Ding article: as "Clock (boss)" per the website, "watch (boss)" as per the game, or keeping it as "Count Down".

Proposer: LinkTheLefty (talk)
Deadline: May 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Time to "Clock" in!

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) Time for a second option.
2. Sorbetti (talk) On second thought, and seeing that the situation is comparable to Bundt and Raspberry, I am in favor of a page rename to Clock (boss) wich encapsulate both parts of the boss.

Time to "watch" out!

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) Time for a first option.

Time to "Count Down"!

#Sorbetti (talk) I don't think so. Countdown is fine as it is because the name encompasses the Boss and not his parts. I don't know why the page was previously divided if Ring a Ding is a part of Countdown. It's like having Eye (Exor) and Exor separated.

1. PrincessPeachFan (talk): Why are we going with a website name?
2. Arend (talk) Per my standings in the previous proposal. Also of note is that in the Switch remake, the data files for cg_data-character-p1561_mevius.bundle ("Mevius" being thr JP name for Count Down) contains data for the entire clock as a whole (minus the Ring-a-Ding bells), and NOT just the face of the clock; this tells me that Count Down being just the clock's hands in the original game was done so to save space (alongside the fact that the clock itself is merged to the background itself), and this being misinterpreted by other sources. Exor is a similar case in which the sword itself is merged to the background image, while the separate, targetable sprites labeled "Exor" are the glowing eyes within hus skull-shaped pommel.
3. Blinker (talk) Per Arend.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all; Count Down is the highest-priority name, ergo, we don't see the need to change to a lower-priority one.
5. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Per all
6. Technetium (talk) Per all.
7. Pseudo (talk) Even if Count Down is just the face strictly speaking, it's clearly the main entity that makes up this boss fight and is a far more recognizable name than just calling it a clock or watch. I just can't see what this would accomplish.
8. ThePowerPlayer (talk) It's called Count Down in the game.
9. Nelsonic (talk) Per all.

Comments

@PrincessPeachFan I'm not going to go with the website's idea. Now, since both parts of the boss have different names, it's a case similar to Bundt and Raspberry, which we changed the name to Cake (boss) to encapsulate both parts of the boss. Sorbetti (talk) 11:24, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

@PrincessPeachFan Also, that's what the second option is for, as mentioned in the first topic and previous comments. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:06, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

Generally, I don't think I like the whole thing of having to use a generic title for a boss with multiple targets or layers that do have unique names, especially if it's obvious that one of the targets is the main body/target. Like, to me, it's obvious that Count Down is the main part of the boss, and therefore the name of the boss as a whole, especially with the Nintendo Switch remake (not only that the in-game data shows the JP name referring to the whole clock minus the Ring-a-Dings, but also that the boss fight itself points to the hourglass below the clock as its target rather than the clock's face or hands). Personally, I don't quite like it either that the cake boss is named Cake (boss) when it has unique names for its layers in Bundt and Raspberry, but an exception can be made since these are literally just the names for the cake's layers, as evident in the Japanese, Korean and Chinese names (even though all other languages seem to give Bundt a name that might as well refer to the cake as a whole, such as French or Dutch, and it doesn't help that Bundt is made up of two layers rather than one as if that part's name has priority... ALSO not helping that this very same Nintendo Power Source website refers to the cake as a whole as simply "Bundt" on that boss list as well). rend (talk) (edits) 16:55, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

Eh, if it fails, we can reconsider Bundt. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:56, May 1, 2025 (EDT)