Talk:Bad Adder

Subtracting an Adder

The remake's Monster List has the same entry for Bad Adder and Mad Adder, just with Cloaker and Domino's names swapped: "Apparently it would be called something else if it had fused with Domino/Cloaker instead of Cloaker/Domino. Which raises the question...what is this monster's true name?" So if it wasn't obvious before that these are the same creature, we have confirmation. This would make for an easy merge except it does raise the question: what to merge it as? I guess we can call it "Adder", except I believe that's conjectural. The Player's Guide isn't really helpful on this, either: it only mentions Cloaker's as "Earthlink" on the Domino & Cloaker strategy on page 103, and lists Earth Link on 113 and Mad Adder on 114 among the major meanies. We can go with "Bad Adder" since it appears first in the Monster List, except that seems like an arbitrary reason and it was clearly named after Mad Adder. "Snake (boss)" or maybe "Snake (Super Mario RPG)" seems like our best bet, since it shows up in Cloaker and Domino's fused profiles: "He may look like he's just riding on his snake's head, but Cloaker/Domino insists that they have formed a single creature." and also appears in said Player's Guide on 103: "Once the snake is squished, Cloaker will vamoose." The rationale would, once again, be similar to the cake boss merge. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:25, January 3, 2024 (EST)

My two cents to this question, I lean a bit more on keeping them split. While they do serve the exact same purpose, are basically the same thing and you only have to fight one of them per play through, I don't see a problem with keeping them split. They have different stats and keeping them split would remain consistent with other RPG enemies that are mere color swaps and they also have official names, while merging them just forces a conjectural title over two articles with official titles. Plus the game doesn't really give any further context on "which is the real/true version" so I don't see any problem with keeping them split. Tails777 Talk to me!

....honestly, I read the description as meaning they are still two snakes and if the pot-heads had fused with the other snake, that'd create two additional ones we didn't see XD. Granted, there being just one snake makes more sense, but ambiguities are still just that. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:52, January 3, 2024 (EST)

Yeah, like Bmad Adder and MBad Adder? XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) Friday, October 31^st, 06:11 (GMT)

I would agree with the merge if it wasn't for the name issue, "what is this monster's true name?" indeed. "Snake" is clearly just a generic descriptor, especially with the Japanese version calling it a "snake-like monster" instead, and using that over an actual name (or pair thereof) doesn't feel right. At least with the cake, there wasn't really a better name, since "Bundt" and "Raspberry" only referred to specific parts of the cake. Blinker (talk) 15:18, January 3, 2024 (EST)

Plus, it should be noted that the Monster List's entries aren't really meant to be taken seriously such as K-9 and Chow's entries claiming the former's true name is "Blueish-Tinged Gray K-9" and Count Down's entry saying "If you're reading this at one in the morning, it's time to stop playing this game." PrincessPeachFan (talk) 10:33, January 6, 2024 (EST)

In fairness, some of the Monster List entries like K-9 and Ribbite make more sense when you factor the Japanese names, and K-9's clarifies its origin in a way that the original couldn't. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:26, January 6, 2024 (EST)

These are pretty much still treated as two seperate bosses with different names in English and Japanese and vastly different statistics and attacks, so I'm opposing this one. This would be a bit like merging Czar Dragon and Zombone just for being the same entity when they're treated seperately gameplay-wise as well. Looking at Cloaker and Domino's profiles also imply the possibility that these snakes might not be the same entity. Nightwicked Bowser 14:09, January 6, 2024 (EST)

The dragon forms have a shared Final Fantasy inspiration going for it, wherein they're entirely separate entities in the original series, so that one never crossed my mind as merge potential. On the other hand, while we never fight the "base" version of the snake, we see that the difference is the result of the fused version of Cloaker or Domino (which also get some different attributes) augmenting its abilities. I personally don't see the Monster List profile as being too ambiguous. LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:27, January 6, 2024 (EST)

But again, they have different names, stats and attacks. Count me in for opposing a merge as well. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 10:04, January 7, 2024 (EST)

True. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) Friday, October 31^st, 06:11 (GMT)

Merge Bad Adder and Mad Adder as "Adder" or "snake (boss)"

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Do not merge 1-2-12
When the above discussion was made, the old Nintendo Power Source site wasn't factored. As stated: "Earthlink and the Mad Adder are names used for a giant, purple cobra that merges with either Domino or Cloaker. If you defeated Cloaker, then the snake will be called Earthlink and have 2,500 HP. If you defeated Domino, then the snake will be called Mad Adder and have 1,500 HP." This makes overt the game's implications. This proposal aims to combine the article: as "Adder" per the site (albeit under "Earthlink and Adder"), "snake (boss)" per the wording in Strategy/Player's Guide and Monster List, or keeping it split.

Proposer: LinkTheLefty (talk)
Deadline: May 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on May 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Merge as "Adder"

1. Sorbetti (talk) Although my initial position according to the proposal was contrary, exploring the topic further I discovered that the following is mentioned in the enemy glossary: Bad adder/Mad adder, which indicates that they are the same but their name and statistics change depending on who they are fused with. Since the name Adder is kept between both, I think it is the one that best encapsulates them.

Merge as "snake (boss)"

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) Preferred since while I like the alternative, it seems mistyped in the source, and I'm just working with what we've got here.
2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per LTL and myself in the comments. This also solves the awkwardness of listing them as "optional" bosses since they are either/or.

Keep separate

#Sorbetti (talk) Two enemies with different names well established even within the game itself, given how we handle enemies in RPG games this proposal is not with me. Also unlike Countdown's proposal, these enemies are not even parts of the same boss.

1. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Per opposition in the previous discussion
2. Blinker (talk) Even if these two are the same snake individual, they are still two different bosses. I'm surprised I ever agreed with this merge. Baby Bowser and Mega Baby Bowser are the same character, but different bosses with different names and mechanics, and they get their own pages. This is that.
3. Sparks (talk) Per Nightwicked Bowser.
4. Zootalo (talk) Per all.
5. PrincessPeachFan (talk): No way, Jose.
6. EvieMaybe (talk) per Nightwicked Bowser.
7. Tails777 (talk) Per Nightwicked Bowser.
8. Arend (talk) Per all
9. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Blinker; two bosses, two pages, and we know that there's been increasing skepticism towards merging color variants already as it stands--keeping these split isn't hurting anyone.
10. Technetium (talk) Per all.
11. Pseudo (talk) Per Blinker. They're different bosses, or forms at least, and we're not merging Fire Mario with Mario.
12. Power Flotzo (talk) Per all.

Comments

It should be noted that websites have a tendency to get stuff wrong (e.g. the Nintendo website walkthrough for SM64 calling Thwomps "Blue Whomps") PrincessPeachFan (talk) 10:45, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

It still ended up fairly close to what was said in the remake's Monster List profiles. Literally it lies in wait until Cloaker or Domino activate it. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:55, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

@LinkTheLefty Seeing the comments from other users and my position on the proposal, I think adding the option to create a page called Adder that talks about the true monster in general would be good. Sorbetti (talk) 11:17, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

I mean, I guess I'll add it if more people express interest in that, but I don't want to make too many options if I can help it. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:55, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

I don't think I would support that idea, there's little to no information we have about the "true monster" and what we do have is already covered on the respective pages so it would be mostly redundant. Nightwicked Bowser 08:06, May 2, 2025 (EDT)

I do have to ask the opposition why this differs from Bundt and Raspberry, which are merged following the same basic logic. They also don't fight especially differently, the only real difference is one is physical and the other is magical, two sides of the same coin - functionally, this feels more like Boomer's two different forms, but with some added flair. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:54, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

Bundt and Raspberry are two "body parts", so to speak, of one boss. I don't see how they're relevant here. Blinker (talk) 14:13, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

And this, meanwhile, is one boss with a different clown on his head, which seems even less different. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:54, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

the difference is that you fight bundt AND raspberry, while you fight mad adder OR bad adder. — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 16:04, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

...all this is doing is persuading me more and more that they should be merged. How does that make them more distinct? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:17, May 1, 2025 (EDT)

The thing is, while both Adders are hinted to be the same individual, they are also treated as separate entities at the same time - them getting different names depending on the situation and all. Not really the same thing as all the various forms Smithy has, for instance. rend (talk) (edits) 17:31, May 1, 2025 (EDT)