MarioWiki:Proposals

Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), removal of a previously added feature that has tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action(s) are done. Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!" "Vote" periods last for one week. Any past proposals are archived. A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed with the signature code ~~~(~). How To Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument. Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at: Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm) Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm) Sunday: 15:00 (3pm) At any time a vote may be rejected if at least three active users believe the vote truly has strong reasons supporting it. Every vote should have a reason accompanying it. "# " should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line. At the deadline, the validity of each vote and the discussion is reviewed by the community. A user calls the result of the proposal and takes action(s) as decided if necessary, and archives the proposal. The times are in EDT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after school, weekend nights). So for example, if a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is indeed a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours. CURRENTLY: 10:38, 28 April 2024 (EDT) New Features Re-Add Banjo and Conker Articles I've been thinking about this for a long time, and this proposal is to gauge how users would react to the re-inclusion of Banjo and Conker info into the wiki. Banjo and Conker first appeared in Diddy Kong Racing, and their series developed out of that game. As such, Donkey Kong, Banjo, and Conker are believed to exist in a greater DK Universe (and an extension of the Marioverse). As we have been redefining our view of remakes, that they are not replacements but supplements to the originals, I feel Banjo and Conker should have a place here. Just because Diddy Kong Racing DS is a remake that removed these two characters does not mean Banjo and Conker don't have their origins in the Donkey Kong series. Ultimately, there are many reasons for their inclusion in this wiki, and many reasons for their exclusion. All are valid. I don't want to start any flame wars, and I do not want make this a big deal. Please keep all discussions about this respectful. I just want to see if a majority of users would like Banjo and Conker content reintegrated at this time, or if they do not. Somehow I feel this info will eventually become a part of the wiki, as they are part of the greater world Nintendo and Rare created out of the Donkey Kong series, but this may not happen for a long time. Here are the details of the proposal that would go into effect: Banjo and Conker related articles can be recreated on the wiki. First we should go through deleted edits to restore as much as we can, then start editing and creating articles like normal. Banjo and Conker series would be added as Tertiary Importance to the Importance Policy. Additionally, this proposal would also move all crossovers (including Super Smash Bros.) to Secondary Importance. This proposal would also prohibit articles about the Star Fox series and Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Tricky from Diddy Kong Racing exists in a separate continuity from Tricky EarthWalker from the Star Fox series, although the latter is a out-of-universe reference to the former. In Grabbed by the Ghoulies, no major characters return in a major role (there are some minor cameos, just as major Jet Force Gemini characters appear as cameos in Banjo-Kazooie, and Jet Force Gemini is not a part of the Banjo-Kazooie continuity). This differs from Diddy Kong Racing, where Banjo and Conker were major characters who spun off into their franchises. Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: 20:00, 21 September 2007 Recreate Banjo and Conker Articles Son of Suns - I am the proposer and I have included some of my reasons above. Plumber Never thought they should have gone in the first place. User: Ultimatetoad (nope tiptup wasnt in pilot, but still....I agree with SOS) YELLOWYOSHI398 – Even if it is somewhat far-fetched, Banjo and Conker are part of the Marioverse and therefore deserve inclusions here. Per YY398. --KPH2293 14:59, 15 September 2007 (EDT) ~Uniju(T-C-E) Per all of the above... -- Sir Grodus – Per SoS. Glowsquid While I don't belive Conker has enough tie to the Marioverse, I believe Banjo is related to the marioverse, see my comments below. Leave Banjo and Conker Articles Out of the Wiki Mr.Vruet info|talk|chat If we do that we would have arcticles on everything in the zelda series the metroid series and you get the idea....as they were all in Super Smash bros which is a crossover. Max2 (talk) per cobold Walkazo - As I see it, the Donkey Kong Series is a spin-off of Mario and therefore the Banjo and Conker series are spin-spin-offs. They're just to far removed from Mario to be included in Super Mario Wiki (in my opinion). XzelionETC Per Cobold Wa TC@Y – most of both of these series is out of Marioverse. Ghost Jam MarioWiki. Mario. Not Donkey Kong. Not Conker. Personally, I feel that extended universes should be limited to a single article per. -- Chris 02:25, 16 September 2007 (EDT) My Bloody Valentine After hearing that thing about Tiptup, I believe Banjo could make it in. Conker, however, has no relations to the series other than Diddy Kong Racing, and he was even taken out in the remake, meaning he has no real relations to the DK series, thus, no relations to the Mario series. Cobold (talk · contribs) - Conker's Bad Fur Day isn't a game that can be featured on a children's wiki, it has too many adult themes. Master Crash per walkazo! Comments I agree on everything you have said except two things you may want to take into consideration We should Import them from the Rare Wiki at Wikia since they may have been lengthened a little in there time there. We should bump crossovers down to a class lower than Tertiary, instead of Secondary, as Secondary is for series that originated from the Mario series, not crossovers from another series Plumber 02:05, 15 September 2007 (EDT) OMG, I just remembered. The Conker games are very much sick, aren't they? M rated, correct? Wouldn't it be bad for the young children who come here if we make articles on the rude content in the Conker series? My Bloody Valentine A wiki is an encyclopedia. It is not meant to be censored, it is meant to tell information. Also, Vruet, we only make articles about those in the Smash Series., and none of those other series developed from the Mario series. Plumber 02:26, 15 September 2007 (EDT) Yeah but this wiki is full of young people so we should keep it censored aslo those series are gonna make people asking if they can upload zelda arcticles and stuff as they are in a crossover-Mr.Vruet 02:37, 15 September 2007 (EDT) As Plumber said, an encyclopedia is for information. Using the "A kid could see it!" logic, any depiction of genitalia in paper encyclopedia should be censored since a kid can read it. Conker? I am kind of neutral on it. However, I'm all for the re-inclusion of banjo content sincee Titup, a minor character in both Banjo Kazzoie and Tooie (I think he was also in pilot, but not too sure.), reappered in DKRDS. Glowsquid Walkazo: Well, actually, Mario could be considered a spin-off of Donkey Kong. Glowsquid I know, since Mario's first game appearance was Donkey Kong. But as I see it, that game is more related to Mario games than it is to Donkey Kong games plot and gameplay-wise. It's just like Super Mario Land 3: Wario Land, it's the first real Wario game, yet it's in Mario's name. Then there's the fact that Nintendo immediatley started making Mario games, while it took years for Rare to come out with Donkey Kong Country, for all we know, they were simply recycling Nintendo's discarded Donkey Kong character, and the same might even be true for Banjo and Conker, since they came from Diddy Kong Racing, Rare was just a bit more speedy in developing them in their case. All in all, it's all quite muddled. - Walkazo To Plumber, we can import from Rare Wiki, but only Banjo and Conker content of course. We created that wiki, so we have the right to re-import the information. For crossovers, I think it depends on what the crossover features. For example, Super Smash Bros. features Mario, so it's one degree away from the Mario series. However, Wario vs. Bomberman features Wario, who is one degree away, so this crossover would be another degree away. Maybe? Well, we can sort all that out again later, but for now crossovers will be Secondary if this proposal passes. To others, this is an encyclopedia. We don't need to censor information for children. It's all available on Wikipedia anyways, which I am sure many of you frequent. And why should we censor information to children? Don't they have a right like any other person to choose what they want to learn about? And people have already asked if they could include other Zelda information and we simply explain they can't. Problem solved. I think Walkazo has the best reason for opposing: in her opinion, they are too far removed. Users have to decide how far they want to follow the spin-off series, as Banjo and Conker are spin-offs of spin-offs. I am willing to go that far. Well, that's my two cents. -- Son of Suns Thanks for the mention, but just so you know, I'm a girl. - Walkazo Explain your censoring point to parents. I don't think they all think that way. - Cobold (talk · contribs) 12:32, 15 September 2007 (EDT) Quite a few adults work on this site - why should we be penalized because there are kid users too? Why should the Super Mario Wiki be any different than Wikipedia, which has a lot of kid users but articles about fellatio, sex, rape, murder, suicide, drugs, alcohol, etc.? If we are to be taken seriously as a source of information, we have to get out of this child-censoring mindset. I just think kids need to be given more credit. They are not stupid - they have free will like any adult. They know what is appropriate for themselves. Children need to be given more rights, instead of being sheltered their whole lives. -- Son of Suns SoS, for once, I disagree. Wikipedia, one out of a hgundred users is a kid. Mariowiki, I think you are like one of 3 adults. Why should us kids be penalized because of that? Max2 (talk) How are you penalized? You don't have to read the articles. And I am sure there are a lot more kid users on Wikipedia then you state. And you don't know how many adult users visit this site, especially when blogs from adults references this site as a source of information. Books written by adults even reference this site. I just wish some users would keep an open mind. -- Son of Suns Let me give my opinion... Leaving out of account whether a game like Conker's Bad Fur Day would be appropriate for children - why in the world would an article about that game be not appropriate for children in any way? The article describes the game. I guess the game is M rated because of containing violence? Well... so what? The article won't contain any violence! I don't understand why you seem to confuse promotion for a game with information about a game. Or do you think history lessons in school should be abolished in order to protect children from information about wars? Would be quite dumb, right? / Time Q 13:09, 15 September 2007 (EDT) The article wouldn't contain violence, but it would possibly contain the sexual themes. Also, screenshots would have to be selected carefully. - Cobold (talk · contribs) 13:10, 15 September 2007 (EDT) I agree on this; if there are screenshots which might be unsuitable for children, they should better be left out. But I don't understand why some users are against even creating such articles. / Time Q 13:18, 15 September 2007 (EDT) You both make some very good points. We will not be writing articles promoting the game or any behaviours in the game, but merely describe them academically, and respectably (if this proposal passes that is; it's something I believe in, but will not force upon people). It's not like we won't be sensitive to children in regards to certain material, but it doesn't need to be censored. These articles will be purely informative, and avoid raunchiness (we will use academic terms, instead of lower language). That's what Mario Wiki is all about - writing objective, informative articles. =) -- Son of Suns I wonder... Why we couldn't create a template that would warn the reader about offensive/innapropriate content and put it on the Conker Bad fur day-related page? Glowsquid We could potentially, but we don't necessarrily have to. What is offensive to people is completely objective. I'm sure some people would object to Daisy showing her stomach in Mario Strikers - so should she be included in this template? Wikipedia does not have such templates, and I don't think we need it. But whatever happens happens. -- Son of Suns I think people are blowing this "sensory issue" way out of proportion. As Son of Suns said, we'd be using academic terms to describe the more mature subject matter, and since this is an encyclopedia and should contain all the information pertaining to Mario as we writers can find. It's not our fault if people find one thing or another offensive, as long as we write about it in good taste we're just writing the truth. Also, as SoS pointed out, there's no telling what people are going to get fussy over: I know people (myself included) who disapprove of Mario slaughteing thousands of Goombas on his way to save Peach - that's pretty violent. Then again, so's Bowser forcing his children to fight Mario, or Ash forcing his pet electric mouse to fight firebreathing dragons in Pokémon (and the Super Smash Bros. series)... The point is, there's a lot more than Conker's Bad Fur Day that will get (some) people mad on this site, and we can't help that. If worst comes to worst, we can put up a general warning on the main page. That way we can be sure no parents are gonna come busting our chops, and not have to worry about what subject matter would warrent the use of a "warning template" on an individual article. - Walkazo Max2, if they made a Mario First Person Shooter rated M, would we cover info in that? ~Uniju(T-C-E) What the? Where did that come from? Think about it logically, Shigeru Miyamoto would NEVER do that. My Bloody Valentine He allowed Link to be in a Soul Calibur game, which I'm pretty sure has blood, etc. to some extent. -- Sir Grodus Er, Twilight Princess also has that stuff, but to a lesser extent. It is M. I was talking about Mario games. Shigeru Miyamoto would never make a Mario game like that. My Bloody Valentine Soul Calibur has Ivy....and you thought Flurrie was voluptuous! Also, Mr. Miyamoto will die someday - who knows where Nintendo will take Mario (or Microsoft when they buy the rights to Mario) with him gone? And to be fair, Conker is a pretty good squirrel - he rarely swears, and only does so when parodying popular movies many of us have seen (like the Matrix and the Terminator). -- Son of Suns I was fairly sure that Conker was a very bad squirrel. Either that or my Brother-in-Law lied to me. And, by Conker, I meant the series as a whole. My Bloody Valentine And, we are not talking about Sould Caliber, that is NOT mario-related. We are talking about wether Banjo and Conker are Mario-related or not. Even if we DON'T bring Conker back, we should still bring Banjo back, and Conker was not as bad as... Some stuff... ~Uniju(T-C-E) I still don't think the Banjo series should be able to make it into this. It is not related enough to the Mario series, and neither is Conker. And, what do you mean it isn't as bad as some stuff? What stuff? My Bloody Valentine Well, Conker's Bad Fur Day is rated M for a reason. But we would not be promoting the rated M material, we would be describing academically, as Wikipedia does. I do believe Banjo and Conker are related to Mario, as they went on adventures with Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong prior to the events of Diddy Kong Racing, as stated by the instruction manual. They were all buddies before the events of the game. -- Son of Suns What do you mean you won't be promoting the rated M material? And, BTW, it is rated MA down here. My Bloody Valentine However, I still don't think we should put any Conker and Banjo stuff in it. A lot of other people have already wrote about this, so look above. Anyways, we would objectively write about the series as we do any other series, instead of saying the content is good, which is subjective and POV. Also, DK lives in the same world as Banjo and Conker. Squawks the Parrot even delivered letters directly to Banjo and Conker, proving they all live together in the same universe. -- Son of Suns It just seems to 3rd Party-ish to be in this Wiki. My Bloody Valentine Technically, Rare was a 2nd party at the time of most of these games, so it was a part of Nintendo proper. But now it is either a 1st or 2nd party....to Microsoft. I'm not trying to upset you or anything. I think the whole maturity argument is not that valid. But if you feel that it is too far removed from Mario (you can't deny it had its origins there), that's cool with me. =) -- Son of Suns I must also note there is a moral to Conker's Bad Fur Day. It's not just empty jokes - it all leads to a very dramatic and emotional climax, where a real lesson is taught to the players. -- Son of Suns I am just telling my thoughts on this situation. If we lose, we lose, I don't care, really. I just feel it is too distant from the Mario franchise. But, I, by myself, cannot choose wether it should be put here or not. So, whatever happens, happens. My Bloody Valentine Cool man. I feel exactly the same way. =) -- Son of Suns Just for the record, if a Mario First Person Shooter was made, we would cover it. It being a Mario game and this being a Mario wiki. -- Chris 02:18, 16 September 2007 (EDT) I don't think the maturity thing is a valid oppose, as nothing should get in our way of contributing to the wiki and making more articles. If some really have a problem with a content, we could put {{mature}} on the top of the page. Also, Vruet, none of those series originated from the Smash series, so we wouldn't make any further articles about them. Plumber 02:50, 16 September 2007 (EDT) RXCUSE ME MR. DP!!! KIDS ARE OBNOXIOUS THESE DAYS!!! Forgive me, but what the H*** is THAT supposed to mean. We have hundreds of kids on hear already..... a couple weeks ago, I was one. And for the record, do you know how easy it is for a 11-12 yr. old to go onto sights based upon mature content? A MARIO WIKI will be the LAST thing Parents worry about. - Ultimatetoad One, no swearing. Two, no flaming. Three, that is my point. If a Mario Wiki is the last thing they will worry about, how devastating would it be if they saw something like the Conker series on here? My Bloody Valentine 1. Sorry, mornings are always a bad time for me. Two. I was'nt actually FLAMIJNG him i don;t think, but his comment did insult half the users here. 3. In my opinion, they WOULDNT CARE. There's worse stuff out there then a game with a bit of gore, and little sexual innuendo in it. - Ultimatetoad One, its OK, but it is still not a good excuse to swear. Two, yes, you were technically flaming, and how do you know it insulted many people? Three, yes, there is worse stuff. BUT, their parents would probably think "You can go on MarioWiki, it is a safe website for you to browse", or something like that. How bad would it be if they noticed the Conker stuff, they would never allow their children back on the Wiki again. My Bloody Valentine And, i've seen my cousin playing it, thats all there really is. I've seen worse stuff on average on any one episode of family guy, which children without cable can watch every sunday..... As for the too far removed stuff just how too far CAN it be? The DKC series is often considered a seperate series from the Mario one, and it obviously provides a different flavor then most mario games, but it's here. What about the Donkey Konga series? It's a spin-off of a Spin-off, but we cover that. - Ultimatetoad 1. Yes I know, again sorry. 2. the users here arent insulted by being called obnoxious? O.K, maybe half the users here arent kids, but I know at least two below the per-teen level. 3. I've seen sexual innuendo, in my cartoon watching days. on Cartoon Network and Nickolodeon. WORSE STUFF then this wiki wil convey. The Conker games, I'll admit, may not be appropriate for a 7 or 8 year old to play, but the wiki articles will be appropriate for them to read. - Ultimatetoad But, Donkey Kong has appeared in more than just one Mario-series game. And, what you just said actually further told us to leave out Conker and Banjo. You say that the Donkey Kong series should not be here because it is completely unique. If that is the case, Conker and Banjo couldn't even make it here, because their only Mario-related appearance was in a Donkey Kong game. The point is, Donkey Kong has appeared alongside Mario in more than one game, Conker and Banjo haven't. My Bloody Valentine I did not say we should take DKC out because it's too unique. I Meant we should leave it in. Again, it all comes down to how far wer're willing to go for a spin-off.... and heres another interesting thought: Was Rare planning the Banjo and Conker games BEFORE or AFTER Diddy Kong Racing? If before, they may have made the games even if DKR was cancelled.... which would have made all the difference, as therw would have been no connection to the marioverse. - Ultimatetoad Another thought: if we allow Banjo and Conker in here, and one day Bottles gets his own series, will we let that series in? - Ultimatetoad Who? My Bloody Valentine A Banjo caharacter... that would be a spin-spin-spin-off. But, as far as i'm concerned, all things in mario's universe should be covered, and TipTup proves that banjo is indeed in Mario's universe. Conker, has no such proof that I know of, so whatever, but of Banjo we have facts that show his homeland is located in the same world as Mario and Donkey Kong's is... otherwise, how could TipTup have gotten there.? - Ultimatetoad I guess Banjo could make it in... barely. Conker, however, I'm not so sure about. In my opinion, they are both TOO 3rd Party-ish. My Bloody Valentine Maybe we should make a third category... and, for the record, Tiptup's appearence in BK and BT was'nt just a cameo, he was a tangible character that gave you rewards. - Ultimatetoad Well, after hearing that, I guess Banjo could be allowed. However, er, isn't their a Banjo game coming out for the XBox 360? If so, what should we do about that? My Bloody Valentine You still don't have my vote on putting Conker here. Ummm... put the info on here? this is'nt a nintendo only wiki, we have info on games like Hotel MArio, even though there not Nintendo developed. Heck, we could even make an article on Microsoft and the XB360, if this passes through. - Ultimatetoad Conker's a bit harder to place, i'll admit... - Ultimatetoad And, heres a fun fact: There HAS been a MArio FPS. - Ultimatetoad I would agree to add Banjo but leave Conker out, not because of "It's too mature!. stuff (Which for me, is total b****ck.) but rather because there is no tie to the Marioverse past his appearance in Diddy Kong Racing. - Glowsquid, I reallty thinkthis need a 3rd option. There... two new options. - Ultimatetoad Good. Man, I never thought this would become the Proposals biggest argument yet. :P My Bloody Valentine Cobold Max2 & Xzelion: Since an option to add Banjo content but leave Conker out have been added, and your reasons for opposing are against Conker, could you please change your votes, or the reasons behind them? Glowsquid SOS, have you read ANY of these reasons? why did you take the two new things out. - Ultimatetoad You can't change the proposal like that. Banjo and Conker are friends. Their series emerged from Diddy Kong Racing, neither had a franchise before. Tiptup is not a Banjo character per-se, he can be considered a cameo character. I moved all votes to oppose, so you may have to change your comments or votes. Just pick yes to both or no to both. If you accepte one you have to accept the other, as Tiptup is a cameo character. Also, Banjo and Kazooie appear in the Conker series, so those two series are connected that way. -- Son of Suns BJ is a stuffed head and Kazooie's an umbrella, THATS a cameo. But You can TALK to Tiptup, and he gives you items. Thats not a cameo. And also, is'nt this supposed to be a democracy? three users agree with this idea, but you don't so you can remove it? Did'nt you leave a few months back because another user was doing the same thing?!. - Ultimatetoad From an edit summaries: "It's either both or neither, as Banjo, Conker, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong are friends" + :You can't change the proposal like that. Banjo and Conker are friends. Their series emerged from Diddy Kong Racing, neither had a franchise before. Tiptup is not a Banjo character per-se, he can be considered a cameo character. I moved all votes to oppose, so you may have to change your comments or votes. Just pick yes Banjo and Kazooie appear in the Conker series, so those two series are connected that way. -- Son of Suns to both or no to both. If you accepte one you have to accept the other, as Tiptup is a cameo character. Also, The fact than they are "friends" is irrevalant (plus, it sound retarded.), Conker is completly absent Diddy Kong Racing DS, a remake of the original, some (including me) think that remake are of an higher level of canon than the original game, however, even if Banjo himself is not present, he still somehow have tie to the Marioverse since Titup, a minor Banjo character made an appearance in DKRDS, if they are not in the same world, how he managed to get there? However, the same can't be said for Conker, who has nothing to conect him to the Marioverse appart for his (rectconed) appearance in Diddy Kong Racing. Sincerely - Glowsquid You have to wait for this proposal to expire before creating a completely different one. This is the proposal. Users can't just go around changing every proposal, adding millions of options. I gave these two options, pick one or neither. Also, Slippas appear in Conker's Pocket Tales. -- Son of Suns Really, is he specifficaly named "Slippa"? That change everything, then. Actually, no, it don't. Because in both universe exist a simmilar creature/character don't mean the two are connected, it's the same thing as Tricky, really. Glowsquid Are they REFFERED to as Slippas? If so, then maybe... although a species is different then a character in some ways. - Ultimatetoad Now that I have to do some research on. It's pretty clear that enemies such as Slippas and Armys are in the game. But sometimes things aren't named, so let my research it. But again, this is the proposal, so please adjust your votes. And I think the fact that Donkey Kong, not simply Diddy Kong, but Donkey Kong himself went on adventures with Conker is very notable, just as is him advanturing with Banjo. If that connection wasn't there, I wouldn't support this proposal. -- Son of Suns When did Donkey Kong go "adventuring with Conker"? and Actually, Glowsquid has a point. A certain type of fish may exist in both North America and Australia, but that deosnt mean it had to start out on either. A man named joe coolex, though can only be in one place at one thime: There can only be one of him. The same is true with the Slippas and tippy. - Ultimatetoad I just did some research - Armies could not be in CPT because it was released BEFORE DK64 ever came out. - Ultimatetoad Uh, Army appeared in DKC, a big army was a boss in DK64 thought. Glowsquid Still, the fact than some creatures in Conker Tales are simmilar to other DK creatures is for me, irevalant. Creature that looked, acted and (Not sure) named exactly after the Chain-Chomps appeared in a few Zelda games as enemies. Should we star doing Zelda article because of that? Glowsquid Armies are in Donkey Kong Country. Banjo: Even before the start of his future partnership with Kazooie, Banjo isn't one to turn down the chance of an adventure. So when Squawks brings the message from his pal Diddy Kong, the Honey Bear stuffs a few things into his trusty backpack and takes to his heels. Conker: Another friend made by Diddy Kong on one of his endless adventures with Donkey Kong, Conker is also an exploration nut who'll jump at any chance to break free of a squirrel's less than exciting daily routine. He's eager to join with Banjo as the bear passes through. + This proves a connection between Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Conker, and Banjo. Plus Squawks the Parrot delivers letters to Conker and Banjo, as stated in the story. The parrot does not deliver a letter to Timber or Tiptup or any other character, as the rest besides Krunch live on Timber's Island. Diddy Kong wants extra help, so he sends Squawks to the homes of Banjo and Conker, who do not live on Timber's Island. The Banjo and Conker series emerged from the Donkey Kong series. If DKR was a flop, the Banjo and Conker series may have not been created. It's not all about characters, it's about where franchises come from. The WarioWare series comes from the Wario and Mario series, but no WarioWare characters have ever appeared in a Mario game. Does that mean we don't include those characters? No Conker characters have appeared in a Donkey Kong game. It's the same thing. And the same species cannot emerge in two different places. Law of natural selection prevents that. -- Son of Suns How does that little selection prove anything? Donkey is'nt even MENTIONED in Banjo's profile. and snakes are a very common basis for enemies, CPT and DKC have very different graphical styles, I see no way for you to conclude that these snames in Conker's Pocket Tales are Slippas. - Ultimatetoad I thought Banjo was already taken care of because of Tiptup. ;) -- Son of Suns Should the WarioWare series be removed from the wiki as Wario is the only major connection? -- Son of Suns For what we know, Banjo and COnker games may have been in making before Diddy Kong Racing, wheter Diddy Kong Racing may have allowed these two guys to have a game is pure speculation. Unlike Conker, The Wario Ware character didn't get removed in a remake of thhe original game. Glowsquid There hasn't been a remake of a WarioWare game. Plus, according to official wiki policy, originals are as valid as remakes in terms of canon, so these are moot points. -- Son of Suns Actually, it did. Mega Party game on the Gamecube. Anyway, I'm out of here, we are all for the re-inclusion of Banjo content (And I'm sure we don't mind Conker,either.), and yet we are fighting about who should be in and who is not, that's ridiculous. Glowsquid I'm not really arguing with you, SOS, but while the link between Banjo and DK is a Character, Conker's link is practically nothing. - Ultimatetoad Think in terms of franchises. Say Mona got a game that took place in a new world, with all new characters, with no references to Wario or anything else from the WarioWare series, we would cover that series, right? Also, I think I am upset that my proposal was changed. I have no hard feelings against anyone, but you can't just subvert the whole proposal. If you just want Banjo, you'll have to oppose this proposal then start a new one later. -- Son of Suns Mona is a big part of the WW series so it only seems right that we'd include her spin-spin-off game, and Banjo and Conker were a big part of Diddy Kong Racing, so her series' inclusion would mean their spin-spin-offs would have to be included too. An interesting dilemma, however I think it sould depend on how similar the Mona series was to WarioWare, if it were as disimilar as Banjo and Conker are to Donkey Kong games I'd say we should leave her out. But that's all theoretical and all we're dealing with is Banjo and Conker, and I stand by my opinion that they are too far removed from Mario and shouldn't be included any more than they are now. - Walkazo Right. I'm NOT disagreeing, again (you'll notice my vote is still in the C&B section). The reason those other options were created were to suit some users who felt that way. (Many other proposals, I will point out, have more than one option) I still agree with putting Banjo & Conker in the wiki. - Ultimatetoad I know. Again, this is the proposal I wanted. If you want something different, wait until this proposal expires. Okay. New start. -- Son of Suns Mario was briefly mentioned in Banjo & Kazzoie, just wanted to point that out. Glowsquid That's true. What I love about this proposal is that we are finding all these connections. Like I said above, I wanted to learn how people feel about Banjo and Conker content on this wiki. It's very interesting to hear everyone's viewpoints and counterpoints. That was my main stimulus for creating this proposal. -- Son of Suns A poster of Berri can be found in Banjo-Tooie. -- Sir Grodus I'd just like to address some earlier statements: WarioWare isn't really a spin-off of the Wario series, since it still stars Wario. I think of it as a sorta sub-series, like Donkey Konga is for Donkey Kong. Wario and Donkey Kong are clearly main characters in the Marioverse, so there should be no question about whether or not these sub-series should be included. - Walkazo I find kind of funny how everyone is complaining about the possibly offensive content on the Conker-related page, and yet, the Bob Hoskins page is not censored. Glowsquid Hey, kids? All this talk about who was in what is irrelevent. OMG, Chain Chomp-like characters in a Zelda game? That's called a cameo, put it in the trivia section for Chain Chomp. This is getting out of hand. The proposal is for Conker and Donkey Kong, focus on the simple part of that for now. If it comes to pass that all is readded, we can debate about the inclusion of mature content and Tiptup then. -- Chris 18:40, 16 September 2007 (EDT) Removals Cool User Lists Many users have a section on their userpage listing other community members they like. Often there is unnecessary conflict and even (pardon) stupid flaming when a user removes someone from this list. I say we get rid of all of these sections – there's no need to hurt anyone's feelings over any one of these. True friends – online or offline – can't be simply added or removed from your life on a list. We have a good group dynamic overall in our community, so let's not wreck it. Another option is to rename & rephrase all these lists so they are neutral, such as "User Neighbors I Know", though removing users could still bring questions and trouble. Proposer: Wa TC@Y Deadline: 17:00, 19 September Delete Them All Wa TC@Y – reasons in description above. XzelionETC saying some people are cool and leaving some out is a recipe for bad blood. Bastila Shan You guys are right, My Bloody Valentine Agreed, I removed my Cool Users list already. Ghost Jam If the wiki had a few hundred active members, then I could see sections like these working. The way it is, no. Walkazo - Per Xzelion and Ghost Jam. ~Uniju(T-C-E) - After reading the above... Per all the other dudes... *Goes to delete his* User:Fixitup - Makes perfect sense to remove them. Plumber Even a neutral one will one day cause a problem somewhere. toadbert Wayo is right. You couldn't believe how long I wiated to be in one,seems right not to make people do that like me. WarioLoaf (talk) - i will remove mine right now. I agree fully. The K I agree. These lists might hurt someone's feelings. Rephrase for Neutrality Master Crash - per my comments. Zach121- I think that they should change the name to wiki friends King Mario -I'll just descibe if I met/talked to them and how I helped them or how they helped me. Mr. Guy the Guy Talk!E Change name like alll guys above 3D, no need to totally DELETE it. Dude. ~PY -What's wrong with having one. Look at mine! Mine is neutral. Keep As Is Max2 (talk) The only people who flame about these things are the people who don't edit. --Luigibros2 21:00, 13 September 2007 (EDT) As long as it ain't flameing or swearing at another user it's fine. YELLOWYOSHI398 – Cool User lists were made simply to list friends and make others feel liked. It's silly to start flame wars over them, and that seems like something very few people here would do. Peachycakes 3.14 07:35, 18 September 2007 (EDT) Per Yellow Yoshi Comments Could we do something like, users we've come across? or at least something like that. Master Crash That would be the option "Rephrase for Neutrality". - Cobold (talk · contribs) 16:26, 12 September 2007 (EDT) oh.....Master Crash While I agree that we should nuke the cool user list, I have the impression it would create a flame war as bad as the one over the removal of featured article. Thus, I'm kind of neutral on it. Glowsquid I havn't seen a flame war, yet, but its stupid to fight over something like this! Master Crash Fg flamed Glowsquid in chat. XzelionETC To be honest it doesn't matter if we rename it or not, everyone knows what is it, no-mater what the name, at this point renaming it would be useless. XzelionETC Agreed. For something like this to work and not be a problem, we would need a far larger number of active users than we currently do. -- Chris 17:46, 13 September 2007 (EDT) can i do two? 0_o Master Crash What? XzelionETC Changes New Subject Articles This proposal would put a bit stricter standards on what articles can be created on new subjects (i.e. those with the Newsubject template). While most are fine, such as the Super Smash Bros. Brawl articles, some are not. I am mostly referring to the mass of fan conjecturally named Super Mario Galaxy articles. Many creatures and planets are given conjectural names, despite the fact they may disappear entirely, or may never be officially named (the planets may just be a part of greater officially named galaxies, and should just be described in the galaxy article in the first place). This proposal would not delete all these articles. They will stay until they can be organized when Super Mario Galaxy and other games are released. However, if this proposal passes, all new subject articles will be regulated from that point on. The criteria would be that the subject must be officially named by some means. Although these names are still considered conjecture until the game is released, they are still officially conjectured names, and will have a name (even if it's changed) when the game is released. All other conjectural information that is not officially named should go in the unreleased game's article (or in the articles of species, characters, places, etc.). The information is fine, but it's not article worthy. Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: 17:00, 24 September 2007 Regulate the Creation of New Subject Articles Son of Suns - I am the proposer and my reasons are given above. Peachycakes 3.14 10:04, 17 September 2007 (EDT) Here here, I've been wanting a crackdown on those Super Mario Galaxy articles for a long time. Cobold (talk · contribs) Per above. I also don't like this "cosmic species" concept, when it has never been said that the guys are indeed from a different species. Glowsquid Completly agree. I find ridiculous that we have an article on Cosmic Tox Box, which act exactly like a regular Tox Box, simply because it's appear in Super Mario Galaxy. Allow the Creation of Fan Named New Subject Articles Comments Again, I will note this proposal will not delete all these articles in one fell swoop. You can argue on individual talk pages if you think a certain article should be merged, and take action if there is a consensus. Or you can just wait for the game to come out before making changes. But if this proposal passes, we won't allow something like this Super Mario Galaxy article fiasco happen again. -- Son of Suns Subsized Categorys Every once in a while, a category that can have too few enteries shows up. Such as Category:X-Naut's Weapons (Though it's deleted), so I think that those should be prevented like stub articles. Proposer: Lario Deadline: 20:00, 22 September 2007 Prevent Them Mr. Guy the Guy Talk!E This is important Keep Them They are still categories. I think that stuff like that should exist if it's not only one article.  Caps Lock LORD 13:24, 16 September 2007 (EDT) Comments I think we should just do a case by case basis, like new articles. We ask: "Is there enough for its inclusion?" There's no way to prevent someone from creating categories - we just have to decide if they are needed when it happens. I don't think this proposal can do much, so I am not voting either way. -- Son of Suns I agree. - Walkazo Improvement Drive Idea I think we should have a project similar to Featured Articles and the Pipe Plaza, where, instead of pointing out the best articles, we point out the ones that need Work, so users can all work on one project, instead of everyone editing the "featured article" status ones, and leaving articles like Doopliss un-edited. The process would be similar to Featured Articles. We make a new page about the project, where we come together and list the articles we think are shortest, but have potential. Then, we might make a box on the main page to show what the article is. Each article will get one week on the main page, again, similar to Featured Articles. I know no-one may say yes cause I'm not someone who edits, but I think this would help users, ecspecially new users, who may be nervous making an article. This does not mean we will have stub articles, and I frankly think this project will prevent them. Proposer: Max2 Deadline: 20:00, 22 September 2007 Give it a Try Max2 (talk) Supporter, reasons given above SM 97 Walkazo ~Uniju(T-C-E) Sounds like a good idea! ~PY -Per Max2 Minimariolover10 I agree. It won't fail. Plus, we have no idea what to edit, and recently messages aren't replying fast. Peachycakes 3.14 06:57, 17 September 2007 (EDT) I'll help, it seems like a neat idea. CaptainN I think that would help! Nah Plumber These projects always seem to fail. I don't think we're ready for it yet. Comments Are you thinking about something like MarioWiki: PAIR; or an Improvement Drive, where we pick one article a week or month, feature it somewhere and encourage all users to work on it? Or are you thinking something else? It would be nice to get a better sense of what you are thinking, cause I am all for helping users getting active and making improvements. -- Son of Suns Yeah, an Improvement Drive. That's exactly what I mean! Max2 (talk) Okay. I think you need to clarify some points. You should state above what this would entaiil exactly. For starters, you can answer these questions and put them in the proposal itself. Would users vote for an article to be improved (the one with the most votes gets featured)? Would the article be featured for a week, a month, etc.? And would the article be featured on the main page (like, This Week (or month)'s Collaboration is: so and so) with a link to that page? -- Son of Suns Ok. Is this clarified enough? Max2 (talk) I added descriptions of the aspects of the project, how to set it up, and why I think it would work. Yes. That makes sense. One more question: would one of the secondary goals be to get improvement drive articles to FA standards, if the subject is notable? (An aside: even Doopliss is a notable subject - it could become an FA.) -- Son of Suns Well, as most users say, the goal for every article would be to become an FA. i'm ont saying we only improve articles that can be FA articles, this is mainly just to cut back on stubs and short articles. Max2 (talk) That makes sense. I wish you the best of luck with this project. I don't know how I feel about this yet, as previous improvement drive/collaboration projects have failed. We'll see what happens. =) -- Son of Suns It seems to be sort of popular with the crowd. Except Plumber. Max2 (talk) Merges and Splits Mario Cartoons: Split Multiple Episode Pages Some of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! cartoon articles are seperated by what cartoon episode they appeared with, such as the article King Mario of Cramalot / Day of the Orphan. This proposal would split these articles into two independent articles. Each episode is independently named, and in re-releases of the series, such as on video and DVD, the episodes are often grouped differently from the original television release, showing that the pairings are rather arbitrary. While it should be noted what episode each one originally appeared with, I feel each cartoon should have its own article. It's strange having an article that is split in two sections that are basically completely unrelated. Proposer: Son of Suns Deadline: 20:00, 21 September Split these Articles Son of Suns - I am the proposer and my reasons are given above. Per Son of Suns; XzelionETC My Bloody Valentine Agreed. They are two entirely differant episodes, with nothing to do with each other. Plumber Per all the ones on my side Walkazo - Per everyone above. YELLOWYOSHI398 – Per SoS. -- Sir Grodus – Per Son of Suns; The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 articles are seperate, so I guess these should be too. Booster - Per everyone else. The two stories are unrelated. I'd be willing to fix things up a bit once this proposal goes through. toadbert Keep them Merged For "cartoon-learners", I think the should only spend half the time, and I find it fine. Minimariolover10 Comments Minimariolover10: Could you expand on your comment about cartoon-learners. Most of the Mario cartoon episodes were "half-episodes" (half of the half-hour show), but they all have plots and deserve their own articles. I couldn't even find an episode called cartoon-learners... - Walkazo If this proposal goes through (and it probably will), I think that we should integrate the live-action segments from The Legend of Zelda cartoons into the chronology of the segments from the Mario cartoon episodes, like so: Neatness Counts Day of the Orphan All Steamed Up Marianne and Luigeena Slime Busters The Mario Monster Mash And so on, meaning that every fifth segment would be from the Legend of Zelda, for a total of sixty-five segments. -- Booster I just want to state this is not part of the proposal, but users can debate this issue on article talk pages (or here - whatever; I'm just saying any consensus reached on this issue is distinct from the actual proposal). -- Son of Suns Recipes Pages Almost all of the Recipe Articles are short and state: What Game What Effect How to get the item Picture All which would be included in a table. Table shown here, Credit to SpikeKnifeNeedleSword for the design. This would work such as the Badges page. Lets face it they're too minor and too many of them. Proposer: XzelionETC (started by SpikeKnifeNeedleSword (talk)) Deadline: 17:00, 19 September Merge XzelionETC My Reasons are stated above. Bastila Shan Xzelion is right Cobold (talk · contribs) - Though items which can be gotten without cooking, such as the Boo's Sheet, should still have their own article. Keep Separate Son of Suns - As officially named items they should be kept. They have just as much info as any other item in the series. They are exactly the same as regular items: what game, what effect, how to get the item, and a picture. Look at the Strange Leaf article, a normal item used for recipes. It is exactly what is in a recipe article, or any other item article for that matter. Full Metal Moogle - We have articles for other items, dont we? D: ~Uniju(T-C-E) All items should get an article, since a lot of them can be gotten by cooking, AND by finding them somewhere not to mention some other reason... *Talks for hours*. Aipom Per SoS. Plumber Per that Pokemon YELLOWYOSHI398 – Per SoS. Booster - Per SoS. They qualify for seperate articles, as they are officially named, and they have different effects, unlike say Wario game treasures. Glowsquid - Per Booster. Comments Son of Sun: Your example would be a little more convincing if you didn't purposely choose a stub. For normal items, you can talk about were they are found, if they are revallant to the plot (Like the Dried Shroom) ,how you can obtain them apart for beating up random enemy, and how they can be used for cooking. For a recipe, you simply say which item can be used for cooking them and their effects, deffinately a table job IMO. Glowsquid I think there's been some confusion between recipes and food items. As far as I know, Recipes are "Item 1 + Item 2 = Item 3", not the food items involved, which is what seems to be the common belief (Food Items are even categorized as Recipies, which makes no sence). I'll use the Dried Shroom article to highlight my point: The text part is about the item Dried Shroom, and the "Recipes" secion is a list of the recipes it's used in. Make a list of the recipes, but keep the articles about the items. - Walkazo Look at the Shroom Steak article. There's numerous ways to make one. If we were to list all possible ways of making each item, the chart would be huge. Also, a list makes it harder to describe items in detail, such as is it worth the money to cook, or is it unworthy, and should only be made once just for the recipe log? Booster There are problems on with both solutions. The current way, we have a high number of articles that are just a few words shy of stub-status (EX: Fried Shroom). The other way, we end up with a handful of very, very long articles (EX: Shroom Steak). We need to find a middle ground. -- Chris 20:01, 17 September 2007 (EDT) List of Mario Kart Sponsor Some day ago, Wayoshi deleted an article about Wario Mall, an organization briefly mentioned on a spot in Mario:Kart DS. The Mario Kart series is FULL of random sponsors. I thought we could create a list of these organization of one page, since they do exist, but aren't major enough to have their own articles. Proposer: Glowsquid Deadline: 17:00, 19 September Create that list Glowsquid XzelionETC Per Glowsquid Bastila Shan What gofer Said Cobold (talk · contribs) - Too minor to warrant articles. Walkazo- Good idea. ~Uniju(T-C-E) - Sounds like a neat idea! Aipom Per Glowsquid. Snack 20:55, 14 September 2007 (EDT) Sounds like a great idea. Like Cobold said, they are way too minor to have their own articles, but one big list of them would be great. Plumber 02:10, 15 September 2007 (EDT) I think I was going to do this a long time ago, but wasn't sure if they should be on a list or not. Now I've made my decision. YELLOWYOSHI398 – This is a great idea; Mario Kart sponsors aren't worthy of their own articles, but a list would be fine. Master Crash Ya, i've always wanted somethin like this. Nay Comments Miscellaneous No current proposals.