Talk:Mask Gate

(First topic)

What categories does it fall under? It only comes alive once, it's part of the environment in all the other levels, there's definitly more than one...
- Yoshi Master

I'll leave it as a species for right now until we find out what category he will fall in. Paper Jorge ( Talk·Contributions·) Paper Jorge was here at... 21:43, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

I'll figure something out at the Mariology forum then come back.
- Yoshi Master

I'm thinking that maybe Hawkmouth could be put in the "Traps and Obstacles" category. Anyone agree? -- Sir Grodus

I do.-- Aipom --

I think he belongs in both categories.Knife (talk) 15:29, 25 February 2007 (EST)

That works too.-- Aipom --

What about the name Birdface? That's an official one, pulling up the official NP Advance guide. --Mysterii (talk) 19:13, 21 November 2016 (EST)

Birdface

According to the above, the Nintendo Power Advance guide calls this Birdface. Anyone care to corroborate that? Might just be my fondness for the old apparently-conjectural "Hawkmouth" name. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:12, 25 January 2018 (EST)

Being the one that proposed it, I have the scan from page 39 of Nintendo Power Advance #1 which says "Birdface Battle Hit Birdface with the Mushroom Blocks to destroy it. It's pretty tough for a creature whose only weapon is its big beak." --Mysterii (talk) 23:49, 6 February 2018 (EST)

Split Mask Gate (boss) from this article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

split 5-3
First of all, this proposal aims to split the Mask Gate (boss) from the article due to the following reasons.

1. First, and most obviously, the Mask Gate that serves as a boss in World 7-2 is completely different from a common Mask Gate. Unlike harmless Mask Gates that serve as a level goal, the Mask Gate (boss), as the name indicates, is a boss. Like any boss, it has its own battle music and requires several hits to defeat. It should also be clarified that the Mask Gate (boss) has its own sprite and, unlike common Mask Gates, it is not a level goal, but rather leads to the area where the player fights Wart.

2. Although the Mask Gate that acts as a boss has the same name as the most common gates in general, it is still treated as a different being from the common Mask Gates, as can be seen here in the original Japanese encyclopedia. Mask Gate (boss) and common Mask Gate. As you can see, despite sharing the same name, they are treated as separate entities. This is something that should be taken into consideration.

3. The Mask Gate is clearly a character in its own. While its appearance in SMB2 might not be big, its presence in Super Mario Kun is significant. The Mask Gate (boss) reappears with a similar role, guarding Wart's castle. It also disguises itself as a regular Mask Gate and is defeated by Mushroom Blocks, just like in the original game. After it is defeated, it allows the heroes to pass through its mouth to enter the castle. As you can see, specifically, the Mask Gate that appears as a boss in Wart Castle is the one that appears here, making it clear that this Mask Gate is its own entity.

4. Benefits, my favorite part. Here, the benefits are clear; both Mask Gates are clearly different, so they contain different information. However, the way that information is presented on the page doesn't make it clear. Having them separate, in addition to allowing for better detail on each page, also permits better organization of categories. There are users like me who are more interested in the boss Mask Gate than the regular one, so being directed to this page confused me. It could confuse many other people, since when someone looks for information on something specific, it's because they want to see that specific thing. Additionally , having two pages for both Mask Gates would allow for better page navigation. For example, on the SMB2 page, both regular Mask Gates and the Mask Gate (boss) have their own sections explaining their mechanics; however, both sections lead to the same page, despite being clearly different. Therefore, a different page for each would allow for simpler and easier navigation.

You've already seen it: completely different mechanics, official distinctions, the recurrence of Mask Gate (boss) as its own thing, and benefits accompanying the split. What more could you ask for? Oh, yeah, here's a little draft I made of what the page for Mask Gate (boss) would look like.

Proposer: Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: January 18, 2026, 23:59 (UTC)

Split (support)

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.
2. Wandering Poplin (miniboss) (talk) I mean, if we can split something like the Flying Goal Pole, I see no reason not to split this.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) We're gonna be honest, we kind of assumed this was split already. Bespoke mechanical difference combined with representation in a manga that the other Mask Gates don't seem to receive.
4. FanOfYoshi (boss) (talk) If you wish to confront The Great Wart, you must first pass the following test! Per all.
5. Yoshi18 (boss) (talk) Per all.

Do nothing (oppose)

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - They're listed in separate sections in the encyclopedia due to how it very strictly divides enemies from objects. The actual bios there show they are considered the same even by it. Also, they do use the same sprite, the enemy one just happens to emerge from the wall.
2. Mariuigi Khed (talk): Honestly the points for "pros" are quite valid... but I don't really think it is THAT necessary. The miniboss is more of a "desperate last trap" than a full fledge character. Sure, it's a unique case for an object to be not just an obstacle, but a boss at that, but at the end of the day... it's still the same subject. (tl;dr "Per Doc von Schmeltwick")
3. Salmancer (talk) I'm not seeing this one. One entity can have an alternate set of mechanics used for a setpiece. Imagine if "Rocket in Lift-off Launch needed a dedicated article separate from Rocket Barrel. Or heck, imagine if we actually needed two different Rocket Barrel Articles, one for the left to right levels and the other for the down to up levels, despite the mechanical throughline between both. Actually, no wait. In a post-Bowser's Fury world, imagine if we had to have an article for falling spike (Bowser's Fury)s at normal Mario scale and an article for falling spikes at Giga Cat Mario scale, since they're very obviously separate objects since the Giga Cat Mario vs Fury Bowser battles are basically an entire separate mode from the main game. (And the Kadokawa guidebook gives the two falling spikes separate entries.) The "there's only one Mask Gate sprite" thing isn't helping.

Comments

I think Big Boo (boss) is a fairly similar case, and that's currently merged. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:51, January 4, 2026 (EST)

"all guidebooks treat these two interchangeably, with the manual even implying all the Big Boos in the game are the same individual. Additionally, another point I brought up above: until New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Big Boos were almost exclusively used as bosses for quite a while in the Mario franchise (SM64, TTYD, MPL, etc), so why should the enemy have the priority? Especially in regards to SMA4, where this version outnumbers the generic enemy two to one" So that comparison doesn't seem applicable here because there is a distinction, besides the fact that the boss Mask Gate has a second appearance outside of SMB2, I doubt that happened with Big Boo (boss). Also, from what I know, an enemy can often become a boss, and that happens in many games, but an object becoming a boss is something very different. Sorbetti (talk) 19:59, January 4, 2026 (EST)

I don't really get why you're treating its appearance in Super Mario-kun as evidence of anything. The fact that the boss Mask Gate appears in the manga doesn't have any bearing on whether it is distinct from the non-boss Mask Gates. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:26, January 5, 2026 (EST)

Yes? Yes, it does. Why wouldn't it? Super Mario Kun has always been a manga that takes liberties when telling a story based on a game, so maintaining the same boss role is not a small thing. Besides, regular Mask Gates also appear in the manga. Also, you told Wandering Poplin below that the boss Mask Gate doesn't have visual differences. But Mask Gate has its own sprite, separate from the regular Mask Gates. It 's certainly not a huge change, but it is a difference, just like the flying goal pole having wings. Sorbetti (talk) 06:26, January 5, 2026 (EST)

The fact that it appears in Super Mario-kun isn't evidence of a distinction, at least no more than its appearance in Super Mario Bros. 2 is. It's evidence that Mask Gate can come to life and be an enemy, but that wasn't up for debate. I also think using "different sprite" as an argument is quite a stretch when the difference is that you can see a bit more of it because it isn't attached to the wall (worth noting that, as far as I can tell, it uses the same sprite as all the others before it comes to life). I don't feel strongly enough here to oppose the proposal but I think this could just be a case of a thing having multiple roles in the same game, like Big Boo. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 12:38, January 5, 2026 (EST)

If the Mask Gate were in any other scenario, I might agree with that, but it's not. It happens in the same place as in SMB2, so rather than Mask Gates being able to transform into enemies, it's easier to interpret that the Mask Gate in Wart's castle is the only one with that ability and is also an individual. Also, I still think that the comparison with Big Boo isn't very good, mainly because Big Boo is a unique case of inconsistent roles between enemy and boss, which in my eyes is still different from the distinction between an object and a boss. But for the rest, fair enough. Sorbetti (talk) 12:59, January 5, 2026 (EST)

Also, BTW: in SMKun, the only Mask Gate present is the last one (the miniboss). In KC Mario, there is just one inanimate Mask Gate that seprates Birdo from Mouser. Mariuigi Khed 06:49, January 17, 2026 (EST)

@Mariuigi Khed In stage 2 of super Mario kun, a normal Mask Gate is appears:"toss the two heroes inside a Mask Gate, leading them into Tryclyde's lair". So unless that's fake, then more Mask Gates appear. Sorbetti (talk) 07:36, January 17, 2026 (EST)

Nope, that's correct. I completely forgot about it (one singular panel) Mariuigi Khed 07:47, January 17, 2026 (EST)

@Wandering Poplin: Flying Goal Pole is probably split because it has a) a different Japanese name and b) a visual distinction (it has wings, making it comparable to something like Flying ? Block). Mask Gate has neither of these, as far as I can tell. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:32, January 5, 2026 (EST)

@Salmancer I don' t understand the first example. That same type of rocket also appears in the final level of the same game. Besides, in any case, both rockets serve the same function: to be rockets. I don't know what kind of comparison this is with Mask Gate. The main function of Mask Gates is to be the goal of the level, not a boss. And what's with that example of Falling Spike? Both are spikes; both are obstacles. The same doesn't apply to Mask Gate. I can somewhat understand some of your points. If the Mask Gates alternated between boss and goal in the levels, I'd understand perfectly, but no, it's just one Mask Gate-the same Mask Gate that transforms into a boss, and the same one that received a unique appearance in Mario Kun, where it remains different from the common Mask Gates present there. Instead of saying that "the Mask Gates can alternate between goal and boss", it is "Mask Gates act as goals, and the Mask Gate that appears in War Castle is a boss". Also, do you know why we don't splitthe Falling Spikes in Bowser's Fury? It's probably because they don't have enough differences to warrant a split, which is hardly comparable to Mask Gate. I would compare the Falling Spikes from Bowser's Fury to the Falling Spike from Mario Land 2, which is an enemy and has a different Japanese name, but we keep it on the page because it doesn't have any real differences from a regular Falling Spike. And also, what about the benefits of the split? Do all Mask Gates fall under the Super Mario Bros. 2 boss category? Are all Mask Gates animate objects? Are all Mask Gates lookalikes? Or do those categories belong to only one specific Mask Gate among all of them? Are all Mask Gates alive, and can they transform into bosses? Or is only one specific Mask Gate that appears in Wart's Castle the one that is a boss? Sorbetti (talk) 12:52, January 17, 2026 (EST)