Talk:Goomboss: Difference between revisions

== Have the Chesnut King on the [[List of implied characters]] redirect to this page ==

Three years ago there was a proposal by Glowsquid to move this — here is the main compelling argument: '''The Chestnut King is identical to the Goomba King’s name in Paper Mario in every version of the game except English''': The original Japanese script and every other official translations of the game call this character "Goomba King". The English localization is alone in this. In fact [https://twitter.com/SMWikiOfficial/status/1032616204740059136 the English localization of TTYD mangles or remove several references made to the original Paper Mario. This is another mistake by the English localization team.] As a wiki we strive for a relatively neutral point of view, and allowing the mistake of one language to override the intent of the game in all other languages is frankly unbecoming of the Super Mario Wiki. The Chestnut King should redirect to this page and all the content should get its own game section. It’s a really cool bit of trivia that I just learned, and would’ve learned long before if this article was handled properly. It’s clear that the original intent was a joke about how the Paper Mario Prologue Boss is Luigi’s final boss in the Waffle Kingdom. There is no contradiction in canon since Luigi never met the Goomba King in Paper Mario. --{{User:Plumber/sig}} 16:26, April 28, 2022 (EDT)

#{{User|WildWario}} Per all.

#{{User|Power Flotzo}} The name is highly likely to be lost in translation, like several others in TTYD. Per all.

====Keep status quo ====

::One other factor we should take into account is the fact we never see what the Chestnut King looks like, not even an illustration. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 19:21, April 28, 2022 (EDT)

:Super Luigi's heavily biased account of Luigi's adventure is not lost on me. You don't have to explain to me over and over that its baloney. That still doesn't change the fact that Luigi's tales are our only source of info on the Chestnut King, even if their account of events is suspect. A lot of the time Luigi's partners are there to tell what really happened, but when Luigi tells the tale of the final battle, he's alone, so there's no "actual version of events" to contrast it to. The way Luigi talks about the end of his adventure makes it sound like he's hiding something from Mario - namely, that he didn't get the girl - which is why I never thought to distrust the book's portrayal of the Chestnut King. Even if it isn't true, there's still nothing in any version of the story tying the Chestnut King to the Goomba King outside of the name. I've already acknowledged that the shared name is not a coincidence, but I've also already explained why that doesn't confirm they're the same character. I won't mind a merge as much if we stick with Swallow's idea, though. I'd prefer it to stay split, but I mainly don't want us definitively saying they're the same character. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 19:46, April 28, 2022 (EDT)

For what it's worth, here's how Luigi describes the Chestnut King when speaking to him directly: "''As I strained my eyes in the darkness, I saw the most terrifying beast of all! [...] He was monstrous and drooling! Puddles of toxic goo dropped from his mouth, melting the very ground at our feet! [...] I dodged the king's fangs, jumped onto his chest, and gave him a hammer-whack! My swing split the air and crashed dead-center onto the Chestnut King's skull!''" Blooey, who accompanies Luigi when this part of the story is first unlocked, doesn't seem to indicate that Luigi is lying about the details the battle. Blooey also seems to have been burnt during the battle. - [[User:RHG1951|RHG1951]] ([[User talk:RHG1951|talk]]) 20:46, April 28, 2022 (EDT)

:But I don’t think Blooey is relevant. I always assumed Blooey was burnt by the true evil in the Waffle Kingdom, Minister Crepe — his name implies he cooked Blooey in some way. He implied the final boss was a “hairy” battle, so I assume Crepe was actually formidable.

:It’s somewhat noteworthy that in all variations of the first two Paper Mario games (except in one language), there is a character called the Goomba King who was said to be transformed in both games. It’s not really relevant if the Goomba King is really Princess Eclair’s lover transformed. Whether or not that is true or one of the many exaggerations and lies of the ''Super Luigi'' books, it does not contradict the Goomba King canon at all. In fact it only reinforces it given how the Goomba King was transformed in Paper Mario. Bowser used the Star Rod to turn him from an ordinary Goomba into a bigger one. So that’s another point of continuity. --{{User:Plumber/sig}} 21:48, April 28, 2022 (EDT)