Talk:Electro-Koopa King: Difference between revisions

 
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== Name ==
== Name ==
{{talk}}
So, if it isn't named in-game, i guess it's in the Prima guide? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:08, April 12, 2019 (EDT)
So, if it isn't named in-game, i guess it's in the Prima guide? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:08, April 12, 2019 (EDT)
:And besides the Prima guide, do any guide mention it at any point? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 08:02, May 4, 2019 (EDT)
:And besides the Prima guide, do any guide mention it at any point? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 08:02, May 4, 2019 (EDT)
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== Determine wether to rename this page or not ==
== Determine wether to rename this page or not ==
{{TPP}}
{{SettledTPP}}
So here above, is the discussion. While the Prima guide calls it "Huge Red Electrokoopa" twice, the other times use generic descriptors not capitalized instead of "huge". While it is green, it refers to which Electro-Koopa it is a large variant of. The other guides call it "Giant Koopa", while the Nintendo Power guide incompetely does not properly name it and generically refers it as "turtle". The encyclopedia calls it "Electro-Koopa (green)", however, that's because of us, since it wasn't called as such anywhere, and it's Japanese name isn't Denki Nokonoki (midori) either. Depending on the consensus, i will vote.
{{ProposalOutcome|no consensus|1-0-6-3-7}}
So here above, is the discussion. While the Prima guide calls it "Huge Red Electrokoopa" twice, the other times use generic descriptors not capitalized instead of "huge". While it is green, it refers to which Electro-Koopa it is a large variant of. The other guides call it "Giant Koopa", while the Nintendo Power guide incompetely does not properly name it and generically refers it as "turtle". The encyclopedia calls it "Electro-Koopa (green)", however, that's because of us, since it wasn't called as such anywhere, and it's Japanese name isn't Denki Nokonoko (midori) either. Depending on the consensus, i will vote.


'''Proposer:''' {{User|FanOfYoshi}}
'''Proposer:''' {{User|FanOfYoshi}}


'''Deadline:''' September, 5, 2019, 23:59 GMT
'''Deadline:''' <del>September, 5, 2019, 23:59 GMT Extended to September, 12, 2019, 23:59 GMT Extended to September 19, 2019, 23:59 GMT</del> Extended to September 26, 2019, 23:59 GMT


===Move back to Electro-Koopa (green)===
===Move back to Electro-Koopa (green)===
<s>#{{User|Niiue}} Most straightforward name of the bunch.</s>
<s>#{{User|Niiue}} Most straightforward name of the bunch.</s>
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Easy to understand. Makes more sense than anything else here.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Easy to understand. Makes more sense than anything else here.
 
===Move to Electro-Koopa (giant)===
===Move to Giant Koopa (Electro-Koopa)===
===Move to Giant Koopa (Electro-Koopa)===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} From the start I thought this was the most reasonable option, with Big Koopa Troopas being the only thing in the way, but the identifier takes care of this problem. While Huge Red Electrokoopa ''technically'' makes sense as a name, I'm not at all a fan of how misleading it is at first glance and how confusing it is to get to the proper conclusion; "it's not an Electrokoopa that's big and red, it's a Red Electrokoopa that's big and green." I also see no reason to throw away the English names we have in favor of a Japanese one.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} From the start I thought this was the most reasonable option, with Big Koopa Troopas being the only thing in the way, but the identifier takes care of this problem. While Huge Red Electrokoopa ''technically'' makes sense as a name, I'm not at all a fan of how misleading it is at first glance and how confusing it is to get to the proper conclusion; "it's not an Electrokoopa that's big and red, it's a Red Electrokoopa that's big and green." I also see no reason to throw away the English names we have in favor of a Japanese one.
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#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per both.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per both.
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} Per all.
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} Per all.
#{{User|7feetunder}} Second choice.
#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}} Per all, particularly OMF.


===Move to Dennoko King===
===Move to Dennoko King===
#{{User|Niiue}} Although it's not as straightforward as I'd prefer, this feels like a better option than "Giant Koopa (Electro-Koopa)".
#{{User|Niiue}} Although it's not as straightforward as I'd prefer, this feels like a better option than "Giant Koopa (Electro-Koopa)".
#{{User|7feetunder}} I don't really like either of the other names; this seems like the best option to me.
#{{User|7feetunder}} I don't really like either of the other names; this seems like the best option to me.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per all.


===Do not move the page at all (Don't do anything)===
===Do not move the page at all (Don't do anything)===
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#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Even if on the surface it seems inaccurate, it still is accurate in that the species itself is called "Red Electrokoopa" in English. Additionally, from what I can tell it was ''never'' identified simply as "Electro-Koopa" itself, making that title inaccurate from an official literature-standpoint. "Huge Red Electrokoopa" is not "inaccurate," per se, it's simply a misnomer, which happens plenty ([[Buzzy Beetle]] and the "sized" Boos from SMRPG for example), even in real-world species names (take the amount of species that have "-fish" or "-fly" in their names despite not being fish or flies). In fact, it's only a misnomer on the surface, because again, it ''is'' a huge version of the red ones, and is even defeated the same way.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Even if on the surface it seems inaccurate, it still is accurate in that the species itself is called "Red Electrokoopa" in English. Additionally, from what I can tell it was ''never'' identified simply as "Electro-Koopa" itself, making that title inaccurate from an official literature-standpoint. "Huge Red Electrokoopa" is not "inaccurate," per se, it's simply a misnomer, which happens plenty ([[Buzzy Beetle]] and the "sized" Boos from SMRPG for example), even in real-world species names (take the amount of species that have "-fish" or "-fly" in their names despite not being fish or flies). In fact, it's only a misnomer on the surface, because again, it ''is'' a huge version of the red ones, and is even defeated the same way.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per all. To expand on the clunkiness of the other names: Electro-Koopa can refer to any variant (which is partly why the [[Electro-Koopa|disambiguation page]] has references) and the proposed identifier [[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia#List of English translation mistakes and names from the Super Mario Wiki|came from us]], and Giant Koopa was also [[Big Koopa Troopa|taken]] and the articles' "about" template already mentions the situation adequately; while Dennoko King doesn't have these problems, we should still maintain an effort to adhere to the "another language" template's phrasing "If an official name from an English source is found, the article should be moved to its appropriate title," despite [[MarioWiki talk:Naming#Make an exception to source priority for articles with identical names|recent]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|exceptions]]. Also, I meant it when I wrote that Red Electrokoopa and Blue Electrokoopa should be moved if this does.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per all. To expand on the clunkiness of the other names: Electro-Koopa can refer to any variant (which is partly why the [[Electro-Koopa|disambiguation page]] has references) and the proposed identifier [[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia#List of English translation mistakes and names from the Super Mario Wiki|came from us]], and Giant Koopa was also [[Big Koopa Troopa|taken]] and the articles' "about" template already mentions the situation adequately; while Dennoko King doesn't have these problems, we should still maintain an effort to adhere to the "another language" template's phrasing "If an official name from an English source is found, the article should be moved to its appropriate title," despite [[MarioWiki talk:Naming#Make an exception to source priority for articles with identical names|recent]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|exceptions]]. Also, I meant it when I wrote that Red Electrokoopa and Blue Electrokoopa should be moved if this does.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all, especially LinkTheLefty.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all, my thoughts above, and especially LinkTheLefty. I also feel that the source priority exception proposal shows its flaws now, and should be overriden so that the English name takes priority.
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all.
#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} Second choice.


===Comments===
===Comments===
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Why do the first two options use "Electro-Koopa" and not "Electrokoopa?" "Electrokoopa" is what the red and blue ones use. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 14:43, August 22, 2019 (EDT)
Why do the first two options use "Electro-Koopa" and not "Electrokoopa?" "Electrokoopa" is what the red and blue ones use. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 14:43, August 22, 2019 (EDT)
:From the looks of things, "[[Electro-Koopa]]" was the only spelling used when talking about the species as a whole. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 14:47, August 22, 2019 (EDT)
:From the looks of things, "[[Electro-Koopa]]" was the only spelling used when talking about the species as a whole. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 14:47, August 22, 2019 (EDT)
::Now i understand that you should kill it during its sleep, despite the fact that it's called "King". --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:16, August 29, 2019 (EDT)
:::Uh, ja? Did you make this proposal without knowing how it works? o_o [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:29, August 29, 2019 (EDT)
::::I did know about it, but i didn't know that it wouldn't not wake up until seeing a video. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 04:53, August 29, 2019 (EDT)
== Boss ==
{{talk}}
So considering other bosses in the franchise have spent their entire battles asleep or otherwise unable to directly attack, "get through a challenging gauntlet and defeat the helpless boss by doing something trivial" is an actual boss type, and it is given the "king" name, singular focus in a level, and the goal is met when it is defeated, should we consider this too to be a boss? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:19, September 28, 2022 (EDT)
:Under "'''Bothersome Big Bosses'''" on page 21 of the Prima guide: Piranha Plant in Generator, Petey the Piranha Plant, Gooper Blooper, Wiggler, El Piantissimo, Sand Bird, Mecha Bowser, Monty Mole, Great Sunflower, Huge Red Electrokoopa, Manta, King Boo, Eely-Mouth, Coin Fish, Shadow Mario, Bowser Jr., Bowser. It also says that "''Some are nasty, a few are friendly, but all are large and imposing!''" which is probably why the sunflower is listed. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:04, September 30, 2022 (EDT)
::Wow, I'd say the Snoozas, Chomplets, and Chomp are better candidates than some of those (following the Piranha Flower train of thought). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:21, September 30, 2022 (EDT)
:::Bosses usually have their own cinematic and a special music that plays and special animations and whatnot when you defeat them. This is definitely more of an "elite" Electro-Koopa but I don't think it qualifies IMO as a boss, but whatever they say, I'll roll with it. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 16:09, September 30, 2022 (EDT)
::::I wouldn't put much stock in that list if it considers a platform, a set of coins, and a friendly NPC "bosses". --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 16:46, September 30, 2022 (EDT)
:::::Given that Prima's list of "bosses" is a total joke (the Great Sunflower, ''really''?), I'm gonna say EKK is ''not'' a boss. "King" does not necessarily mean boss (see: [[Lakitu King]] and [[King Coin Coffer]]), and all it does is sleep. At least the [[Big Bully]], which is barely a boss itself, actually fights back. You can't even compare EKK to [[Beef Cloud]], since the gimmick of that fight is that he heals himself in real time while asleep and you have to counter that. No thought goes into "fighting" EKK, it's all about ''reaching'' him. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 17:54, September 30, 2022 (EDT)
::::::My vote goes to considering this a "notable enemy" rather than a boss, quite like with [[Squiddicus]]. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 18:33, September 30, 2022 (EDT)
:::::::OK well since this convo decided to only move on while I was at work, I want to point out that the music and cinematic situation is the same as Monty Mole's. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:51, September 30, 2022 (EDT)
::::::::I'd be fine reconsidering Monty Mole's boss status too, honestly. (Although it does take three hits to defeat, not sure if that matters at all.) Although before we go any farther, are there any other sources that specifically label bosses besides the Prima guide? --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:22, October 1, 2022 (EDT)
:::::::::I suppose Montinger Z could be considered the same manner of "strong target enemy" as [[Astro-Lanceur]] and [[Yoofoe]], though that also calls into question half of what we have listed as bosses for ''Super Mario 64'', which ''do'' have official basis, and will egg me into bringing up [[Clerk]], [[Manager]], and [[Director]]'s treatment in-game as one-time generic enemies again. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:53, October 1, 2022 (EDT)
::::::::::Just wanna point out Astro-Lanceurs are not "target enemies"; they're just treated like normal enemies. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 11:16, October 2, 2022 (EDT)
:::::::::::Rusty memory; fine, extravagant multi-hit enemies. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:50, October 2, 2022 (EDT)
::::::::::::Astro-Launcer still isn't that; one ground pound and it's defeated, releasing a few coins. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 16:21, October 2, 2022 (EDT)
:Curse my rotten memory...Yoofoe still stands, though. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:23, October 2, 2022 (EDT)