MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/39: Difference between revisions

From the Super Mario Wiki, the Mario encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
m (Protected "MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 39": Archive ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite)))
m (Robot: Automated text replacement (-[[Mario (series) +[[Mario (franchise)))
Line 696: Line 696:
===Changes to the sub-series sections===
===Changes to the sub-series sections===
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|4-12|don't change}}
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|4-12|don't change}}
On the [[Mario (series)]] page, we separate the ''Super Mario Land'' games into their own series. The third game might've been ''Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3'' in American, but originally in Japan, it is ''Super Mario Land 3: Wario Land''. The Mario & Luigi, Paper Mario, and even Mario Advance games are in their own sub-series sections, too. All the games with New in the title also either have Bowser Jr. or Bowser Jr. AND the Koopalings ever since the first New Super Mario game for the DS and Wii respectively. So obviously there are elements limited to the New Super Mario Bros. games only in-line with each-other, and it goes without saying the ''Super Mario Bros.'' games are different from the ''Super Mario'' games.  
On the [[Mario (franchise)]] page, we separate the ''Super Mario Land'' games into their own series. The third game might've been ''Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3'' in American, but originally in Japan, it is ''Super Mario Land 3: Wario Land''. The Mario & Luigi, Paper Mario, and even Mario Advance games are in their own sub-series sections, too. All the games with New in the title also either have Bowser Jr. or Bowser Jr. AND the Koopalings ever since the first New Super Mario game for the DS and Wii respectively. So obviously there are elements limited to the New Super Mario Bros. games only in-line with each-other, and it goes without saying the ''Super Mario Bros.'' games are different from the ''Super Mario'' games.  


Right now what we're doing is grouping all the ''Super Mario Bros.'' games in with not only the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' games, but also all the ''Super Mario'' games that have only one or two entries in their respective series. So doesn't it make sense to bundle any ''Super Mario'' games separate from these two series, but with each-other until at least three games of a kind are released, as we have done with ''Super Mario Land''?
Right now what we're doing is grouping all the ''Super Mario Bros.'' games in with not only the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' games, but also all the ''Super Mario'' games that have only one or two entries in their respective series. So doesn't it make sense to bundle any ''Super Mario'' games separate from these two series, but with each-other until at least three games of a kind are released, as we have done with ''Super Mario Land''?
Line 787: Line 787:
:::::Games are organized by release date since that's the most objective way to present information. The presence of a ''Super Mario'' series (which ''is'' canon, ''not'' fan theory, thanks to that booklet: one of the few times Nintendo's given us concrete organizational info to go off of besides names alone should ''not'' be ignored or diminished) allows us to keep later games up top without breaking from the release-date order, but to do so without the justification of a subseries would be nothing but value calls on our part, and we can't do that, because that ''is'' drifting into fanon territory. I.e. we don't put other platformers like ''Luigi's Mansion, SPP, WL'' or ''Yoshi's Island'' up top: they slot in where their release dates let them go. The booklet included ''SMB, SMB2, SMW, SMAS'' (wherein the ''SMB:LL'' info is covered), ''SM64, SMS, NSMB, SMG, NSMBWii, SMG2, SMB Deluxe, SMA, SMA2, SMA4, SM64DS,'' and ''Classic NES Series: SMB'' (it only goes up to 2010, hence nothing more recent); no ''SML'', just the core ''Super Mario'' games and the remakes (besides the old, random, ''SMB'' rehashes like ''All Night Nippon'', but we ''can'' include them because they are unarguably just [[Super_Mario_Bros.#Alternate_versions_and_re-releases|alternate versions of the original game]]: it's not a value judgment or anything, it's bald fact). I gave reasons why ''SML'' shouldn't be part of the ''SM'' series: it's not in the booklet so Nintendo doesn't consider it part of the ''SM'' series, and there's no strong ties to the rest of the ''SM'' platformers so all that's linking it is the name and genre, and there's lots of completely unrelated "Super Mario" games (''SMRPG, Super Mario Bros. & Friends: When I Grow Up, SMK''), and lots of unrelated platformers (''LM'' and whatnot). There's more reasons in the old proposal: I'm not getting into them now because I have very little time and it's very muddled ''and'' it's tangential to the main problems with the proposed changes, which I already went through at length in my vote. - {{User|Walkazo}}
:::::Games are organized by release date since that's the most objective way to present information. The presence of a ''Super Mario'' series (which ''is'' canon, ''not'' fan theory, thanks to that booklet: one of the few times Nintendo's given us concrete organizational info to go off of besides names alone should ''not'' be ignored or diminished) allows us to keep later games up top without breaking from the release-date order, but to do so without the justification of a subseries would be nothing but value calls on our part, and we can't do that, because that ''is'' drifting into fanon territory. I.e. we don't put other platformers like ''Luigi's Mansion, SPP, WL'' or ''Yoshi's Island'' up top: they slot in where their release dates let them go. The booklet included ''SMB, SMB2, SMW, SMAS'' (wherein the ''SMB:LL'' info is covered), ''SM64, SMS, NSMB, SMG, NSMBWii, SMG2, SMB Deluxe, SMA, SMA2, SMA4, SM64DS,'' and ''Classic NES Series: SMB'' (it only goes up to 2010, hence nothing more recent); no ''SML'', just the core ''Super Mario'' games and the remakes (besides the old, random, ''SMB'' rehashes like ''All Night Nippon'', but we ''can'' include them because they are unarguably just [[Super_Mario_Bros.#Alternate_versions_and_re-releases|alternate versions of the original game]]: it's not a value judgment or anything, it's bald fact). I gave reasons why ''SML'' shouldn't be part of the ''SM'' series: it's not in the booklet so Nintendo doesn't consider it part of the ''SM'' series, and there's no strong ties to the rest of the ''SM'' platformers so all that's linking it is the name and genre, and there's lots of completely unrelated "Super Mario" games (''SMRPG, Super Mario Bros. & Friends: When I Grow Up, SMK''), and lots of unrelated platformers (''LM'' and whatnot). There's more reasons in the old proposal: I'm not getting into them now because I have very little time and it's very muddled ''and'' it's tangential to the main problems with the proposed changes, which I already went through at length in my vote. - {{User|Walkazo}}
::::::You still never addressed if then you think the Super Mario Advance games should be included in the Super Mario games instead of their own sub, and why they currently aren't. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 15:32, 8 June 2014 (EDT)
::::::You still never addressed if then you think the Super Mario Advance games should be included in the Super Mario games instead of their own sub, and why they currently aren't. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 15:32, 8 June 2014 (EDT)
:::::::Again, this is tangential to the main changes being proposed here... Anyway, I ''did'', but I made a typo and said "SMAS" when I meant "SMA": it's the part where I said "''since they're essentially ports, they're usually just listed with the parent game, which works fine imo''". I also think it's good to list them with other remakes on [[Super Mario (series)]] and things like {{tem|Mariogames}} to keep things less cluttered. ([[Mario (series)]] needs an overhaul in general, so I don't even use it as a reference for anything anymore.) Of course, in all cases, it's only ''SMA'', ''SMA2'' and ''SMA4'' that belong in the ''Super Mario'' series, since ''SMA3'' is a remake of ''Yoshi's Island'', which is ''not'' part of the series, so it's actually too general to say the ''SMA'' games as a whole are part of the ''Super Mario'' series anyway (and Nintendo backs me up here too: the booklet also omits ''SMA3''). - {{User|Walkazo}}
:::::::Again, this is tangential to the main changes being proposed here... Anyway, I ''did'', but I made a typo and said "SMAS" when I meant "SMA": it's the part where I said "''since they're essentially ports, they're usually just listed with the parent game, which works fine imo''". I also think it's good to list them with other remakes on [[Super Mario (series)]] and things like {{tem|Mariogames}} to keep things less cluttered. ([[Mario (franchise)]] needs an overhaul in general, so I don't even use it as a reference for anything anymore.) Of course, in all cases, it's only ''SMA'', ''SMA2'' and ''SMA4'' that belong in the ''Super Mario'' series, since ''SMA3'' is a remake of ''Yoshi's Island'', which is ''not'' part of the series, so it's actually too general to say the ''SMA'' games as a whole are part of the ''Super Mario'' series anyway (and Nintendo backs me up here too: the booklet also omits ''SMA3''). - {{User|Walkazo}}


In regards to what was said I moved SMB2 into the Super Mario Bros section, even though it's obvious after Walkazo's input this isn't getting passed. lol [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 19:33, 8 June 2014 (EDT)
In regards to what was said I moved SMB2 into the Super Mario Bros section, even though it's obvious after Walkazo's input this isn't getting passed. lol [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 19:33, 8 June 2014 (EDT)
Line 828: Line 828:
</small>
</small>
|}
|}
It's likely not as you imagined it, but the table here, extracted from the [[Mario (series)]] article, would look something like this, no? Maybe you have three more rows, each with their own paragraphs and pictures? I don't know. This is just for the sake of simplicity.
It's likely not as you imagined it, but the table here, extracted from the [[Mario (franchise)]] article, would look something like this, no? Maybe you have three more rows, each with their own paragraphs and pictures? I don't know. This is just for the sake of simplicity.


I... I don't understand why the games in the middle belong with each other. Sunshine is a sequel to 64 and happens to be made by similar developers. Nintendo Tokyo took over for Galaxy, which is supposed to be the Super Mario game after 64, since, after all, it has a health meter, coins that heal you, an underwater meter, a variety of jumps, and Power Stars, just as the previous games. Then, Super Mario 3D Land came along, which also happens to be developed by Nintendo Tokyo, even though the gameplay is much, much different from the first four. So, it's grouped here because it's a 3D platformer, I guess?
I... I don't understand why the games in the middle belong with each other. Sunshine is a sequel to 64 and happens to be made by similar developers. Nintendo Tokyo took over for Galaxy, which is supposed to be the Super Mario game after 64, since, after all, it has a health meter, coins that heal you, an underwater meter, a variety of jumps, and Power Stars, just as the previous games. Then, Super Mario 3D Land came along, which also happens to be developed by Nintendo Tokyo, even though the gameplay is much, much different from the first four. So, it's grouped here because it's a 3D platformer, I guess?
Retrieved from "https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/39"