Editing Talk:Orb (Super Paper Mario)

==Talk==
Three unique items with different descriptions, sprites, and methods to obtain. This is comparable to [[Justice Toad]]'s items. Should we split this page? The [[Water Tablet]], [[Fire Tablet]], and [[Stone Tablet]] are similar and they're split, so this being mashed together is a strange inconsistency. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 00:44, February 7, 2020 (EST)
:Yes, absolutely. I'm surprised these haven't been split sooner. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 00:47, February 7, 2020 (EST)
::at least the tablets had actual differences besides being the same item with different shaders applied {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 00:48, February 7, 2020 (EST)
:::Yeeeah, I think these are better merged personally....we don't split the Pure Heart (or other comparable item) colors, after all :P [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:30, February 7, 2020 (EST)
::::We generally split unique RPG items, though. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 03:10, February 7, 2020 (EST)
:::::They're only "unique" in color and what part of the same fetch quest they're obtained, though. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:35, February 7, 2020 (EST)
::::::I'd support a split. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:59, February 7, 2020 (EST)
:::::::Except that the same goes for [[Red Key (Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story)|the]] [[Green Key|multicolored]] [[Blue Key (Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story)|keys]] in ''[[Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story]]''. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 15:56, February 9, 2020 (EST)
::::::::Except "key" is a generic thing. "Magic heaven orb of rainbow bridge justice" really isn't. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:22, February 10, 2020 (EST)
:::::::::Except that orbs ''are'' generic things...in fiction, at least, so I don't know where you're going with this. "Key" items are by no means limited to just keys that unlock entryways. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 10:02, February 10, 2020 (EST)
::::Y'all that's digression. The fact of the matter is that there are three orbs with identical function in the same place that are only different in color. There's no need to split it on that basis, as a section per each orb on one large page is easily accomplished. Anchored redirects can take care of people searching for the specific orb color. This should be remerged. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 10:21, February 10, 2020 (EST)
:::::That's not digression, it's precedent. I didn't bring up the ''Bowser's Inside Story'' keys for no reason, as both that group of items and this one have near-perfect similarities; both groups consist of entities only distinguishable by their color, both are each obtained from the same group of characters (The Orbs come from Nimbis, while said keys come from Fawfulcopters), and both item groups are used in different areas of a single location. This can't be overlooked. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 17:20, February 12, 2020 (EST)
::::::then ''if they're identical, they should be merged.'' they should ''not'' serve as a precedent for further unnecessary splitting. {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 18:09, February 12, 2020 (EST)
:::::::Agreed with re-merging the Orbs and merging the Keys. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 18:55, February 12, 2020 (EST)
::::::::Also keep in mind that [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 16#Merge Keys Articles|the outcome of a certain proposal]] disagrees with you. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 21:17, February 12, 2020 (EST)
::::That is an inappropriate comparison, as it was discussing the validity of the former Key template. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 21:27, February 12, 2020 (EST)

== Split the Orbs ==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|3-6|don't split}}
Okay, so these are key items with different appearances, names (in every language), and descriptions, merged solely because they are used in the same general location. I...don't see how that argument holds water. Plus, there's also [[Red Key (Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story)|those]] [[Green Key|three]] [[Blue Key (Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story)|keys]] from ''[[Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story]]'' that are already split to begin with (sort of) and that are also a similar case, down to a T: group of three items, all are collected from a common NPC, and all are used in the same general area. Really, that's too similar of a case to ignore here.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' March 24, 2020, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Niiue}} We split [[Castle Key (Tubba Blubba's Castle)|all]] [[Castle Key (Peach's Castle)|the]] [[Castle Key (Bowser's Castle)|Castle]] [[Castle Key (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)|Keys]], [[Red Key (Paper Mario)|different]] [[Red Key (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)|Red Keys]], [[Blue Key (Paper Mario)|different]] [[Blue Key (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)|Blue Keys]], [[Stone Tablet|the]] [[Fire Tablet|Elemental]] [[Water Tablet|Tablets]], etc. etc. Keeping several distinct RPG items merged for any reason seems faulty to me.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} I just don't think they're distinct enough from each other to warrant separate articles, and neither do those keys. They're just color swapped objects obtained as part of the same quest in the same location and are all used at the same time to fulfill the same goal. The only thing that changes besides color (and name to reflect color) is exactly where in the Overthere you find them and which Nimbi sage you get it from.
#{{User|Trig Jegman}} per Waluigi Time, as well as my comments under the talk section. There's no need to split functionally and visually identical objects that share the same name asides from color that share the same name. The keys did not need to be split and neither did these.
#{{User|MikhailMCraft}} Per both.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Recolored items from part of same single-level fetch quest. They don't have different properties or anything, so they're less splitworthy than many RPG "main" plot coupons.
#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}} Per Waluigi Time.
#{{User|Alex95}} - They are all copies of the same item. The Keys in ''BIS'' at least activated different objects.
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} - Per all.

===Comments===
@Niiue Except that's not actually the case, note that the [[Elevator Key]]s found in the same area are still merged. These in turn are a single-level item. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:08, March 10, 2020 (EDT)
:The Elevator Keys don't have unique names or descriptions. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 17:11, March 10, 2020 (EDT)
::I'd hardly call "fill-in-the blank" a "unique" thing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:16, March 10, 2020 (EDT)

@Waluigi Time: A similar argument could be used to justify merging [[Blue Key (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)|these]] [[Red Key (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)|keys]], [[Elemental Tablets|these tablets]], and various similar items used in the same quest in the same location at the same time for the same goal. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 17:10, March 10, 2020 (EDT)
:And look how redundantly short the tablets are. With the keys, the locks are at least in ''slightly'' different places, and they have "key" as a name which would be hard to merge just them while minding every other "key" in existence (though I suppose "Key (The Great Boggly Tree)" could work...). Either way, they were originally merged simply to "Blue Key" and "Red Key," so they never "got split" from each other, just from unrelated things in other games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:18, March 10, 2020 (EDT)
::Well maybe those don't need to be split either. I'm with Doc on the keys though, merging the Great Tree keys is a bit messier and awkward to do. I personally feel like we already split too many keys as is, but I don't feel too strongly about it. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 18:21, March 10, 2020 (EDT)

Something that occurred to me... is the blanket term "Orb" even official? It's been a while since I've played SPM, but I'm pretty sure the Orbs are referred to by their individual names. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 17:43, March 16, 2020 (EDT)
:The phrase "three orbs" shows up in the script five times. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:35, March 16, 2020 (EDT)
::Sounds more like a generic descriptor than a name, though. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 19:50, March 16, 2020 (EDT)
:::The blue orb, yellow orb, and red orb are only capitalized as item strings for the inventory however - they are lowercase in all other text. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:58, March 16, 2020 (EDT)
::::Same goes for every single other RPG item not given proper names. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 19:09, March 17, 2020 (EDT)