Editing Talk:Mushroom King

==Species==
[[File:KingToadstool_coloringbooks.jpg|frame|however, He does seem human in this picture.]]
Sorry, he looked kind of mushroomy. [[User:HK-47|<font size="4">H</font><font size="1">K</font>]]
:I think that is a crown on his head, not a mushroom cap. I'm not sure though; I've never read the comics. This info comes from Wikipedia. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

I never read the comics, either. [[User:HK-47|<font size="4">H</font><font size="1">K</font>]]

He looks human here in the coloring books, however. [[User:HK-47|<font size="4">H</font><font size="1">K</font>]]

:Yeppers. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

He's definitely human ,or human-like, in the Valiant comics (except for a brief period when he's a chameleon). In "It's Always Fair Weather" he removes his crown; he's bald underneath. He's the nominal head of the Mushroom Kingdom, but Princess Toadstool seems to run his privy council and make the decisions -- when she loses her "official royal crown," she fears she'll miss the "annual re-coronation ceremony" and be ineligible to be the princess for a whole year.

==Official Name==
Is there an official source for the name "King Toadstool?" It sounds like a back-formation from Princess Toadstool to me, and not a very good one. Even if Toadstool was a component of her name -- and I'm not sold on that -- it wouldn't have been a part of her name that she'd share with her father. Royalty don't use last names; the Commonwealth head of state is Queen Elizabeth II, not Queen Windsor. --[[User:Toadstool Forever|Toadstool Forever]] 12:34, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

I'll have to check, I have a boatload of unread comics, he's usually just reffered to as "The King" most of the time in them though; if I find a mention of his actual name though, I'll put it here. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]

Yeah, I checked through my comics and some of the Nintendo Adventure Books, and I don't think he's ever called King Toadstool. In fact, I think the only place where he's given an actual name is the official novelization of the ''Super Mario Bros.'' live-action movie, where he's called... King Bowser. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]

Here you go: he's called the "Mushroom King" in the Valient comics: [http://www.trsrockin.com/images/smb_cards1.jpg Super Mario Bros. "trading cards" front] and [http://www.trsrockin.com/images/smb_cards2.jpg back].  He's listed as the king of "Mushroomland", but on Mario's card they call Mushroomland the Mushroom Kingdom, so I think that takes care of a couple things. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 21:29, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== What the??? ==

Hey i've been on hols 4 a week and then when i return thers a load of controversy on his species! Too right Hk, hez a stumy Toadman. [[User:Georgedrake Z]]

== The only game appearance to date. ==

http://trsrockin.com/images/om_legend_big.jpg

Though this comes from the player's guide, this is clearly in the style of Japanese artwork, so it likely came from the Japanese manual. There are what appear to be a Mushroom King and Queen, wearing Toad hats / crowns (!), and guards with spears like we'd see in later games. And Peach here is wearing a Toad cap as well! Still, this seems pretty official. Wonder if the royal couple were murdered... why else did they disappear from continuity? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] 13:17, 17 August 2009 (EDT)
:More likely from a Japanese game guide translated into English rather than the manual. The almost only reference for artists besides the games was the Japanese game package of ''Super Mario Bros.'' then ([http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/systems/volume_8_14207.html read part 4 "My First Project" here]). But even there Bowser and the Princess look very different from these depections. It looks like as if the pixel art of the game was the artist's main reference. If you want to see the small art that actually ''is'' in the Japanese (and Western) manual, look [http://imaikami.cool.ne.jp/mario2/mario02f.html here] (it is compared to the manual of ''The Lost Levels''). By the way, I think the female person in the first picture is also Peach rather than the Queen, since she looks like the Princess on the second page and the text never refers to a Queen. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 14:28, 17 August 2009 (EDT)

:Peach's father, or a king or queen of the Mushroom Kingdom, never appears in the Japanese SMB manual.  [[User:Sarisa|Sarisa]] 02:39, 9 May 2011 (EDT)

== Super Mario Bros. movie ==
According to our "policy" [[Talk:Mario_(film_character)|(see the first section)]], SMB movie characters are not considered as the same as "normal" characters. So why the "normal" Mushroom King is considered as the same as the SMB movie character ? Shouldn't we create "Mushroom King (film character)" ? {{User:Banon/sig}}
:The page was likely "forgotten" as the Mushroom King is an obscure characer and his actual appearance in the movie is very short. If you think there should be split for consistency, suit yourself. It's not like there's anything forbidding you from doing it. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 21:40, 11 December 2012 (EST)
::I think that would be a bit more logical, but I don't know if that would be useful ? Any other opinions ? {{User:Banon/sig}}

I think it should be given its own article like all the other main SMB movie characters.

{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 10:01, 26 December 2012 (EST)
:Ok, let's do it ! {{User:Banon/sig}} 11:26, 26 December 2012 (EST)

==Split Mushroom King and film character into separate articles==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|canceled}} 
All the other film characters were split from their respective main counterparts. Even though the Mushroom King is primarily a character from the comics, he was still mentioned in an instruction manual and some early game material such as "''How to Win at Super Mario Bros.''", so he's still technically a game character. To match the other articles, his live action information should be separated as "King (film character)", since the only name given to him in the film itself is "The King" in the credits.

'''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
'''Deadline''': February 7, 2015, 23:59 (UTC).

===Support===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per proposal.

===Oppose===

===Comments===

a main proposal established the film characters should be split from their gaem counterpart. no need to go through the TPP process. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 20:26, 24 January 2015 (EST)
:I thought Mushroom King was left alone before on the basis that it wasn't considered a game character? Unless I'm mistaken. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 20:31, 24 January 2015 (EST)
::There's nothing in the proposal, this page's edit history or this talk that the page was purposely left alone. More likely, he's such a minor character he got forgotten. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 20:37, 24 January 2015 (EST)

==Re-split film character==
{{TPP}}
A while back, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/66#Merge Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts|this proposal]] passed to merge the live-action film characters with their game counterparts, but only those "very directly based on specific characters from the source material". I disagreed with the idea that the King qualifies as such a character, but supported the proposal anyway and settled for dealing with this later in another proposal. This is that proposal.

The Mushroom King page is essentially a list of times there's been a king of the Mushroom Kingdom and/or Peach's father, neither of which are traits of the movie's King. He's Daisy's father and rules [[Dinohattan]]. I doubt he was inspired at all by the other appearances listed on the page, and pretty much all they have in common is being [[:Category:Kings|kings]] (and I guess an association with fungi). Plus, he was apparently almost called "King Bowser", further hurting any supposed Mushroom King connection.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Hewer}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <s>August 15, 2024, 23:59 (UTC)</s> Extended to August 22, 2024, 23:59 (UTC)

===Support===
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per.
#{{User|DrippingYellow}} I was never a fan of this merge even as I had to vote for it, due to a lack of entirely satisfying options. Per proposal.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per all.
#{{User|JanMisali}} As the person who wrote the proposal to merge the "film character" articles, this seems perfectly reasonable to me. Per proposal.

===Oppose===

===Comments===
He seems inspired by the [[Kings]] from SMB3 in role, I figured that would be the place to merge him (granted, most appearances of the "Mushroom King" are also inspired by such). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:11, August 3, 2024 (EDT)
:I'd actually prefer to have [[List of implied characters#Princess Daisy's father|Princess Daisy's father]] in the same article (also considering we can't really call him "implied" anymore). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:20, August 3, 2024 (EDT)
::Well, [[Princess Daisy]] and [[Princess Daisy (film character)]] are still split. And the kings of SMB3 are a group of characters, and similarly don't have much in common with this King beyond their royal title. I think it takes too much guesswork to identify this King as being based on any particular pre-existing character, unlike the other film characters we merged where there's little to no debate to be had. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:12, August 3, 2024 (EDT)
:::Beyond their royal title and ''role of being transformed into a helpless form by the villains'', which was what I was getting at. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:36, August 3, 2024 (EDT)
::::Still feels a bit too tenuous to me, what with Daisy still being split. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 20:43, August 3, 2024 (EDT)
:::::I feel like neither Kings nor Princess Daisy's father are good articles to merge with. One is a bit too conjectural and the other feels weird because 1993 movie Daisy is actually based on ''Peach'' (which is also the reason why movie!Daisy is also split from our regular Daisy article). Daisy essentially being the 1993 movie equivalent to Peach also seems like the most likely reason why the Dinohatten King is merged with Mushroom King here. The Mushroom King is Peach's father, and this other king is the father of Peach's movie equivalent (ergo, also Peach's father). {{User:Arend/sig}} 02:37, August 4, 2024 (EDT)
::::::So are you suggesting we merge movie Daisy with Peach? The name is probably the main reason they're not merged, and the King has that going for him as well, what with being called King Bowser. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:38, August 4, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::No, I'm okay with keeping Daisy split in its own article, like how we keep Toad, Iggy and Spike split as well, and I'm also okay with whether we split the king too or keep it here. What I'm mostly ''against'' is merging the movie's Daisy with the Daisy from the games, and in turn merging this King with Daisy's implied dad. {{User:Arend/sig}} 07:42, August 4, 2024 (EDT)