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Talk:Ice Piranha Plant: Difference between revisions
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::::::::From a personal standpoint, I'd actually support the idea of splitting the ''Partners in Time'' versions of the Fire Flower and Ice Flower; neither transform the user into the corresponding form, the Fire Flower is even named the Bros. Flower (something that is retained across all languages) and while both offer similar abilities, the Ice Flower ability lowers stats rather than freezing the target. However, that's just me and I don't see such an idea gaining much support. Beyond that, however, the Ice Flowers of ''Galaxy'' and ''New Super Mario Bros.'' titles both transform Mario into Ice Mario, with the Ice Mario of ''Galaxy'' having it's own article anyway. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | ::::::::From a personal standpoint, I'd actually support the idea of splitting the ''Partners in Time'' versions of the Fire Flower and Ice Flower; neither transform the user into the corresponding form, the Fire Flower is even named the Bros. Flower (something that is retained across all languages) and while both offer similar abilities, the Ice Flower ability lowers stats rather than freezing the target. However, that's just me and I don't see such an idea gaining much support. Beyond that, however, the Ice Flowers of ''Galaxy'' and ''New Super Mario Bros.'' titles both transform Mario into Ice Mario, with the Ice Mario of ''Galaxy'' having it's own article anyway. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | ||
:::::::::The two Ice Marios is a bit of a different beast and might be its own can of worms, for the differences between Galaxy Ice Mario and NSMB Ice Mario are more substantial than those between Paper Mario Frost Piranha and NSMBU Frost Piranha (at least, to me); for one, while the only visual differences between the two Frost Piranhas is essentially the head color (although older PM titles had the stem and tongue colored differently too), NSMB's Ice Mario is essentially a Fire Mario palette swap, while Galaxy's Ice Mario is ''entirely'' made of ice. Moreover, while both Frost Piranhas and the NSMB Ice Mario have ice attacks, Galaxy's Ice Mario's powers are more passive comparatively, creating an ice platform on liquids by walking or jumping on them, allowing for easier traversal. What doesn't really make things better here is that unlike the Frost Piranha Plants (where one type exclusively appeared in the first three Paper Mario games, which took creative liberty on appearances and attacks compared to the mainline games), both types of Ice Mario debuted in (more recent and streamlined) mainline titles as well and have appeared in recent spinoff titles, creating even more confusion on whether or not they're supposed to be the same thing compared to the Frost Piranhas, I feel. {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:54, May 8, 2023 (EDT) | :::::::::The two Ice Marios is a bit of a different beast and might be its own can of worms, for the differences between Galaxy Ice Mario and NSMB Ice Mario are more substantial than those between Paper Mario Frost Piranha and NSMBU Frost Piranha (at least, to me); for one, while the only visual differences between the two Frost Piranhas is essentially the head color (although older PM titles had the stem and tongue colored differently too), NSMB's Ice Mario is essentially a Fire Mario palette swap, while Galaxy's Ice Mario is ''entirely'' made of ice. Moreover, while both Frost Piranhas and the NSMB Ice Mario have ice attacks, Galaxy's Ice Mario's powers are more passive comparatively, creating an ice platform on liquids by walking or jumping on them, allowing for easier traversal. What doesn't really make things better here is that unlike the Frost Piranha Plants (where one type exclusively appeared in the first three Paper Mario games, which took creative liberty on appearances and attacks compared to the mainline games), both types of Ice Mario debuted in (more recent and streamlined) mainline titles as well and have appeared in recent spinoff titles, creating even more confusion on whether or not they're supposed to be the same thing compared to the Frost Piranhas, I feel. {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:54, May 8, 2023 (EDT) | ||
I can go either way with this, doesn't really matter if these stay split or are merged. So... | |||
First, Paper Mario is a spin-off game and so Frost Piranha is a spin-off original character. Is it with Ice Piranha Plant the same as with Goomba King/Goomboss or [[Vanna T.]]/[[Toadette]]? Both cases have the shared Japanese name, but while with Goomboss the appearance can be used to consider the same as Goomba King, Toadette is distinct and whatever statements the are don't consider her the same as Vanna T. This leaves Frost Piranha in an awkward spot where despite its latest appearance in SPM it still looks different from Ice Piranha Plant. That's why I don't find 3DL Fire Piranhas a good point either because between the two series, Frost Piranha still differs in color from Ice Piranha. So, there's precedence for a character from one series not being the same as the character from another. | |||
Prima guides are still official sources, they're just an easy target because of their past over others like Smash Bros and Mario Portal. For example, SSB can't be consistent about Deka/Big classification by listing SM64 as an appearance for Big Goomba in SSB4 while Palutena's Guidance for Piranha Plant mentions Big Piranha Plant at where NSMBW would fit in SSBU. And Mario Portal uses ESMB almost 1:1 and carries over some of its inconsistencies like using ”Small Mario” of any small Mario; that didn't become official until 3DL. Not that it really matters when ambiguously official and even unofficial sources, trustworthy or not, can influence official material later on. Bull's-Eye Banzai from ESMB became official in SMM2. All-Stars Shogakukan guide took Missile Bill's JP name ”Return Killer” from Famicom Tsushin (Famitsu) SMB3 supplements. And now ”Frost Piranha” gets used on Mario Portal because SSBU likely [https://ja.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E3%83%91%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%83%B3%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC&oldid=70379290 ripped off Wikipedia], the English version likely taking ”Frost Piranha” from that same article, and so ”Frost Piranha” had more exposure in official material over ”Ice Piranha Plant” which was added to Wikipedia afterwards. | |||
And finally, there's the matter of if two subjects are really the same or just analogous. Like anything Mega/Kyodai and Big/Deka, or Mini/Mame and Small/Chibi for simple examples. These tend to be under the same article if they're otherwise indistinct from each other, but then we have Nintendo treat Small Mario and Mini Mario separately. As for Frost Piranha and Ice Piranha, one comes from a spin-off and has distinct colors and the other is from the core series not looking any different from normal Piranha Plants. Paper Mario got rid of additional Piranha Plant postures in TTYD, and ice ball is as different from ice breath as Ice Flower granting different powers/forms. | |||
tl;dr: I can get behind a single English name that through whatever game of telephone came to be used of two similar characters between a spin-off and a main game, but at the same time I'm against this even despite the same name because they still look different. So I'm staying neutral. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 12:22, May 8, 2023 (EDT) | |||