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====Comments====
====Comments====
I'll post the discord comments I made when the topic was brought up (also the proposal main text made it sound like i recommended the bowser's fury page to be like SMA2's when what happened is that BLOF brought it and the Super Mario All-Stars as examples of how those sections should be written and I opined I don,t think they work very well, and then brought up my own idea on how those sections should be done)
I'll post the discord comments I made when the topic was brought up (also the proposal main text made it sound like i recommended the bowser's fury page to be like SMA2's when what happened is that BLOF brought it and the Super Mario All-Stars as examples of how those sections should be written and I opined I don,t think they work very well, and then brought up my own idea on how those sections should be done)


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*'''Significant, in-franchise appearance:''' Those appearances where a subject has a perceptible effect on the viewer's or player's experience--as a character, enemy, item, or setting.
*'''Significant, in-franchise appearance:''' Those appearances where a subject has a perceptible effect on the viewer's or player's experience--as a character, enemy, item, or setting.
*'''Cameo appearances:''' Those appearances where a known subject shows up but does not affect the course of a story or the gameplay, instead serving as a small distraction or piece of fan-service for the viewer or player. (Simple mentions of a subject, without said subject making any physical appearance, are taken to be "cameos" in the context of this proposal, for the sake of brevity.)
*'''Cameo appearances:''' Those appearances where a known subject shows up but does not affect the course of a story or the gameplay, instead serving as a small distraction or piece of fan-service for the viewer or player. (Simple mentions of a subject, without said subject making any physical appearance, are taken to be "cameos" in the context of this proposal, for the sake of brevity.)
*'''Appearances outside the home franchise:''' What it says on the tin: subjects appearing in media outside of their franchise or universe of origin. Many such appearances can be of a parodical or referential nature and not necessarily enabled or endorsed by the proprietary entity, and for those the wiki has already established coverage in the form of [[Lists of Mario references|Lists of ''Mario'' references]]. However, some of these appearances, third-party as they are, are indeed licensed for use and, where applicable, warrant being covered in some form on subject articles.
*'''Appearances outside the home franchise:''' What it says on the tin: subjects appearing in media outside of their franchise or universe of origin. Many such appearances can be of a parodical or referential nature and not necessarily enabled or endorsed by the proprietary entity, and for those the wiki has already established coverage in the form of [[Lists of references|Lists of references]]. However, some of these appearances, third-party as they are, are indeed licensed for use and, where applicable, warrant being covered in some form on subject articles.


Coverage for the first one, again, is firmly set in stone and disregarded by the proposal. As it's been well-established, if a Goomba kills you in a game, we make a section for that game on Goomba's article. The second and third ones are relevant here, with the third one commanding perhaps the most attention. As it stands, third-party appearances can be further assigned two scenarios: one in which we give the relevant fictional work [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Guest appearances|"guest"]]-type article coverage, and one in which we do not.
Coverage for the first one, again, is firmly set in stone and disregarded by the proposal. As it's been well-established, if a Goomba kills you in a game, we make a section for that game on Goomba's article. The second and third ones are relevant here, with the third one commanding perhaps the most attention. As it stands, third-party appearances can be further assigned two scenarios: one in which we give the relevant fictional work [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Guest appearances|"guest"]]-type article coverage, and one in which we do not.
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This is something really minor, but Bullet Bill's link doesn't actually link to other appearances. It should be [[Bullet Bill#Cameo appearances]], not [[Bullet Bill#Other appearances]]. {{User:WildWario/sig}} 22:44, November 9, 2021 (EST)
This is something really minor, but Bullet Bill's link doesn't actually link to other appearances. It should be [[Bullet Bill#Cameo appearances]], not [[Bullet Bill#Other appearances]]. {{User:WildWario/sig}} 22:44, November 9, 2021 (EST)
===Decide if obscure media filenames from Nintendo's websites qualify as sources for subject names===
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-5-12|Do not cite these filenames at all}}
In my efforts to cover Nintendo's diverse promotional online material on the wiki, I've come across a number of images whose filenames provide unique spellings of a subject's name, or even new names altogether. I am aware this wiki, by and large, has allowed the citing of internal filenames as sources for the names of certain subjects, such as [[Uckykong]] and the ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' planets, but I find the aforementioned website filenames to be of a different nature: in-game filenames originate from a game's developers, who have arguably much higher authority over how a subject is called than the person who mistypes the filenames in a press kit, officially endued as they may be. Furthermore, these website filenames can be rather poorly formatted. Take [https://play.nintendo.com/images/PLAY-5322-MPS-poll01_1x1-IveHockey_v02.6ef5f3152e16d0ba.jpg this image] from [[Play Nintendo]], for example; the subject it depicts, the [[Ice Hockey (minigame)|Ice Hockey]] minigame from ''[[Mario Party Superstars]]'', is mispelled as "Ive Hockey" in the picture's filename. An official mispelling for sure, but a mispelling nevertheless, and I have my doubts on how well it would reflect on the wiki to acknowledge '''Ive Hockey''' as an alternate name for that minigame on its article, given the "source".
I believe we should draw a hard line on whether we can acknowledge any and all of these website filenames, or none at all. I've listed several subjects concerned by this proposal:
*[[Metal Mario]] -- referred to as "[[Gem Mario]]" in a Play Nintendo [https://play.nintendo.com/images/character-64-gem-mario-2x.0d30e304.png filename]
*[[Professor Elvin Gadd]] -- referred to as "[[Professor Edgar]]" in a Play Nintendo [https://d1x8dzgwcdoyln.cloudfront.net/images/1x1_professor_edgar_LM_external_link.a25bebd1.jpg filename]. The file itself is hosted on cloudfront, but is embedded as a thumbnail for [[Professor E. Gadd's Research Journal]] in the search suggestions on Play Nintendo, so it's official media.
*''[[Mario Party: The Top 100]]'' -- abbreviated as "[[MPTOH]]" ('''M'''ario '''P'''arty '''T'''op '''O'''ne '''H'''undred) in a Play Nintendo [https://play.nintendo.com/images/1200x412_MPTOH_announcement.29450787.jpg filename]
*[[Bumper Balloon Cars]] -- referred to as "[[Balloon Cars]]" in a Play Nintendo [https://play.nintendo.com/images/PLAY-5322-MPS-poll01_1x1-BalloonCars_v02.6ef5f3152e16d0ba.jpg filename]
*[[Hot Rope Jump]] -- referred to as "[[Hot Jump Rope]]" in a Play Nintendo [https://play.nintendo.com/images/PLAY-5322-MPS-poll01_1x1-HotJumpRope_v02.6ef5f3152e16d0ba.jpg filename]
*[[Rocky Road (minigame)]] -- mispelled as "[[Rockey Road]]" in a Play Nintendo [https://play.nintendo.com/images/PLAY-5322-MPS-poll01_1x1-RockeyRoad_v02.6ef5f3152e16d0ba.jpg filename]
*[[Cat Goomba]] -- referred to as "[[Munster]]" (possibly a mispelling of "monster") in a [[Nintendo Kids Club]] [https://www.nintendo.co.uk/games/oms/kids_club//games/hidden_objects/img/object_0_Munster.png filename]
*[[Crazee Dayzee]] -- referred to as "[[Blume]]" (German for "flower") in a Nintendo Kids Club [https://www.nintendo.co.uk/games/oms/kids_club//games/hidden_objects/img/object_1_Blume.png filename]
*[[Shy Guy]] -- referred to as "Ghost" in a Nintendo Kids Club [https://www.nintendo.co.uk/games/oms/kids_club//games/hidden_objects/img/object_2_Ghost-2.png filename]
*[[Flutter]] -- Japanese name ("Hanachan") was mispelled as "Hanachyan" in a [https://web.archive.org/web/20140908215851/http://marioparty.nintendo.com/img/character_hanachyan.png filename] on the official ''[[Mario Party: Island Tour]]'' website.
*[[Gooigi]] -- written as "[[Guigi]]" in a [https://luigismansion.nintendo.com/assets/img/journal/entry-3/guigi-2x.png filename] on the official ''Luigi's Mansion'' website.
From taking the liberty to refer to an established character as "Professor Edgar", to bum writing mishaps like "Rockey Road", I think it's clear now that these filenames are a horse of a different colour. This is why I am calling upon other editors to help assess their quality as sources. I myself am leaning towards using them, purely because they are official, but I sense others may have objections given the things I've stated above.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Koopa con Carne}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 28, 2021, 23:59 GMT
====Acknowledge these names/misspellings in articles and use them as redirects====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} First choice.
#{{User|Hewer}} Assuming that 'acknowledge in articles' means put them as trivia points (like we already do on [[Gooigi#Trivia|Gooigi]]), per proposal.
====Only use these names/misspellings as redirects====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Second choice.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Might as well document them somewhere, but I think treating obvious mistakes like these as actual, official names on par with any other source would make us look ridiculous. The same could be said for Prima's countless gaffes, but at least those were in published material that are more likely to be seen by the general public. These are just filenames that would only be seen when digging through obscure Play Nintendo games. See also my thoughts on [[Talk:Gooigi]].
#{{User|Hewer}} Second choice.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I understand the points against the first choice, but I still think this approach is better than the alternative below for now; if and when other-media filenames can be used in place of a conjectural or foreign name (which to my knowledge hasn't happened yet), this makes it more acceptable over the precedent that would be set by choosing not to cite them at all.
#{{User|Somethingone}} Second choice if we ''really'' want to use them in any way.
====Do not cite these filenames at all====
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Nobody is going to see these, and they're blatant mistakes. We know that Cat Goomba isn't named "Munster", and nobody's going to call it that. Creating a redirect from "Ive Hockey" to "Ice Hockey" because some obscure filename did it seems excessive. This is reminding me of Ahehehauhe.
#{{User|Swallow}} Per Scrooge.
#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.
#{{User|WildWario}} Most users won't search for these filenames anyways, so per all.
#{{User|PanchamBro}} Per Scrooge.
#{{user|7feetunder}} Per Scrooge.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Personally I believe the names in other languages are more fit for a redirect material than these but yeah, no one will search these characters by their filename in all honesty, you'd really have to go out of your way to dig these up to find them to begin with.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{user|Shokora}} &ndash; Per all, most of these are just too obscure to be informative or of any help.
#{{user|Glowsquid}} See my comment.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} [[User talk:Grandet Omate#Ahehehauhe|Ahehehauhe]]. Enough said.
#{{User|Somethingone}} If Play Nintendo had an image of a [[Grindel]] and the file name was something like "Puscia cartoon with these runners and pass of the evening", would we make a redirect for it? No, because ''LITERALLY NOBODY'' would think a Grindel is called that. File names are prone to weird renames, we don't need to document all of them.
====Comments====
@Scrooge200: Well, not many people are going to encounter these filenames, that's for sure, but I believe their sheer obscurity in and of itself shouldn't be used as a point against documenting them. "Ahuehuehuea" originated from a place of dubious status which we have discounted as a source, whereas the filenames at hand are unequivocally official. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:00, December 21, 2021 (EST)
:They're official, but they're still clearly mistakes. Noting that an obscure website like Nintendo Kids Club once misspelled an enemy's name seems excessive. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 21:18, December 21, 2021 (EST)
::At what point do we deem a source of information “too obscure” to be cited, though? I don’t think we ought to if it has any semblance of an authority. We also have precedent of documenting typos and mistakes, as is the case of the [[Piranha Plant]] article, which has a name misspelling documented in its very lead paragraph; doesn’t that qualify as “excessive” as well? {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 05:21, December 22, 2021 (EST)
:::That same sentence states that it's from "early manuals", which people would come across more often that these filenames. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 05:36, December 22, 2021 (EST)
::::It’s still “clearly a mistake” and, going by what was said above, it would decidedly be “excessive” to document. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 05:41, December 22, 2021 (EST)
:::::This happened twice in official manuals for two important games (''SMB'' and ''SMB3''), so I could chalk it up to being an alternate spelling back in those days (like "Starman" instead of "Super Star"). Plus, it's a plausible typo that I can see someone who might not know the proper name accidentally typing in. "Hanachyan" or "Munster" are much more obscure, and I've never seen them actually ''used'' before. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 15:52, December 22, 2021 (EST)
::::::I still don't see how a source's obscurity, or perception thereof, should factor into a case against using that source. If the "source" is just an individual exercising their creative muscles or making a typo then, sure, that's reason enough not to use it, as is brought up by the proposal and Glowsquid (although such situations may need to be judged on a case-by-case basis since published guides and magazines are rife with such material, and the wiki is already making note of some of these situations in spite of the arguments brought up here); however, how "obscure" or "inaccessible" a source is really shouldn't jeopardise its validity so long as it's official. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:26, December 23, 2021 (EST)
Also, I thought it'd be worth bringing up [https://twitter.com/mariobrothblog/status/1270816053636083715 "Morty Wrench"], which has also been discussed [[Talk:List_of_implied_species#Some_Implied_Species_That_Should_Be_Added_Or_Not|here]]. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 23:42, December 21, 2021 (EST)
I feel about these the same way I feel about [[User_talk:Alex95/Archive_10#Closed_captions|citing closed captions on streaming services as sources for official names]]. The public-facing material on these websites may be official, but that shouldn't extend to arbitrary judgement calls and typos by the people putting those websites together. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 11:38, December 22, 2021 (EST)
===Make new templates for frequent reminders===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|9-0|Make new templates}}
Apparently, some have been using the copy-paste reminders/warnings I have on my [[User:Alex95/Sandbox#Generic_reminders/warnings_that_get_used_a_lot|sandbox]] since I first started writing them down in April 2019. I wrote them down for a quick thing to pull from, but they're being used frequently enough that, hey, maybe I should put them somewhere useful.
The reminders mainly revolve around basic mistakes we keep having to remind people about, such as first-person writing or italics. When giving such reminders, we usually just type out a message. Let's turn these messages into templates. The wording will be moved to a new template page as-is, unless something about the wording needs changed. Doesn't need the code box that's around it all, as that's only there to easily copy-paste the text and keep the coding intact. A template doesn't need to do that. The signature coding should be excluded as well. Three of these reminders are meant for staff-only business, since staff are the only ones that can check IPs.
Templates added will be, in the order on the sandbox:
*{{italics-reminder}}
*{{release-reminder}}
*{{perspective-reminder}}
*{{preview-reminder}}
*{{oldaccount-reminder}}
*{{threeaccounts-reminder}}
*{{login-reminder}}
Should this pass, I will format the coding I have to be able to be actually used as a functioning template.
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Alex95}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' December 29, 2021, 23:59 GMT
====Make new templates====
#{{User|Alex95}} - Per
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Sounds good to me.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Sdman213}} Sure, per all.
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per Proposal! 🥶
#{{User|Swallow}} Absoloutely.
#{{User|WildWario}} Per all.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
====Don't make new templates====
====Comments====
Wait, how would the "use specific ones" one work if it wins? Would we use the most-voted one? The top two? The top three? The top half? All the ones that make it above a certain score? All but the least voted? Would it go into a run-off vote? I'm kinda confused. [[User:Somethingone|Somethingone]] ([[User talk:Somethingone|talk]]) 14:10, December 22, 2021 (EST)
:I'm an idiot who thought that would work lol
:I guess the criteria for which should be excluded would be completely arbitrary, so now it's all-or-nothing. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 14:15, December 22, 2021 (EST)
===Allow an external link to Zelda Dungeon Wiki and/or Triforce Wiki in the External links section of some ''The Legend of Zelda''-related articles===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|10-0|Both}}
Before you comment, I want you all to know that this is not an attack on Zelda Wiki. I merely made this proposal to reflect the fact that there are two other independently hosted ''The Legend of Zelda'' wikis, Zelda Dungeon Wiki and [https://triforcewiki.com Triforce Wiki], both with their own community, with the former having a larger one. This proposal is NOT asking to change interwiki links to other ''The Legend of Zelda'' wikis either, as NIWA wikis take priority, especially to reflect how they are also listed on the Main page.
This can be handled similarly to the Sonic wiki situation. Take the [[Sonic the Hedgehog]] article for example—there is an external link to both Sonic Retro and Sonic News Network, presumably because Sonic Retro is a lot more behind on coverage than Sonic News Network. Triforce Wiki doesn't even have 1,000 articles yet whereas Zelda Dungeon Wiki has over 10,000 articles. Similarly, on the [[Link]] article, what this would mean is that there would be an External links section listing the Zelda Dungeon Wiki article first and then the Triforce Wiki article below it.
As many probably know, I am the founder of Triforce Wiki, although I handed it over to grifkuba for hosting (they host a couple of other NIWA wikis, so this gives it some credibility) & it is under new leadership. However, adding links to Triforce Wiki might come across to some as a conflict of interest, as a majority of its userbase is from the Super Mario Wiki itself. Because of this, the proposal will have an option to only allow a Zelda Dungeon Wiki link in the External links section of ''The Legend of Zelda''-related articles.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Results May Vary}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 3, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====Both====
#{{User|Results May Vary}} As per reasons stated above.
#{{User|Metalex123}} I think it's a great idea. Zelda Wiki, Zelda Dungeon and Triforce Wiki all have different styles, so readers could enjoy more than just one Zelda-related wiki. Per proposal.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} This has my full support.
#{{user|7feetunder}} Per proposal.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} This is probably incredibly biased due to Triforce being effectively a pet project of mine, buuuuuut per proposal. ZD needs more recognition as it is.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} I'm completely for cutting ties off Zelda Wiki altogether, make no mistake, but small steps like this is a good start.
#{{User|RHG1951}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Per all. I was never a fan of how Zelda Wiki works anyways.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per all.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per all.
====Zelda Dungeon Wiki only====
====Neither====
====Comments====
I have a concern regarding this proposal. I like the concept of linking to other Zelda wikis to give off choice, but what does Triforce Wiki and Zelda Dungeons Wiki have to offer to be used as external links? Are they vastly superior to link over Zelda Wiki? I feel like this might be a "conflict-of-interest" regardless of what it is said on the proposal. {{User:PanchamBro/sig}} 19:29, December 30, 2021 (EST)
:If readers are given extra choices then it's not a conflict of interest -- what would be a conflict of interest is like replacing all of the ZW links with Triforce Wiki links just because the wiki styles are nearly identical. The average reader doesn't know about the Zelda situation, and it wouldn't make a difference to them. Like I said in the proposal, Grifkuba hosts Triforce Wiki for one, and two, Zelda Dungeon is a long-standing Zelda fansite & its wiki has been around for at least a decade. There is no conflict of interest in acknowledging the existence of these two wikis. [[User:Results May Vary|Results May Vary]] ([[User talk:Results May Vary|talk]]) 22:43, December 30, 2021 (EST)
===Create "Unused appearances" sections in history===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|9-2-0|Create with headers}}
Unused appearances are currently covered in the "Other appearances" headers in history sections as a result of [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/54#Determine_how_to_handle_unused_appearances|this 2019 proposal]], however a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/57#Define_the_scope_of_"Other_appearances"_sections|more recent proposal]] refined the scope of other appearances sections to mostly cover third-party media that is otherwise outside of our coverage, while still retaining the unused appearances due to the earlier proposal, which seems very weird, in my opinion. So, I'm proposing to add an additional Unused appearances section which will go at the bottom of history sections and cover all unused appearances.
If the '''create with headers''' option is chosen, unused appearances sections will be divided by game and series, like normal history sections. If the '''create without headers''' option is chosen, there will be a single header where all information is kept. If '''do nothing''' is chosen, well, that's self-explanatory.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 11, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====Create with headers====
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per the proposer, who, might I add, seems like a very neat person.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} It makes sense to separate this information from the “Other appearances” sections if they are generally only for third-party appearances now, and I feel that using headers would make it more organized.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all, this sounds like it would make coverage of unused appearances a lot more consistent.
#{{User|Results May Vary}} Per all, this sounds like a good idea, especially by putting it at the bottom of the history section as mentioned in the proposal to reflect how it went unused and therefore are more of a footnote in that subject's history.
#{{User|Swallow}} Per all.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per proposal.
#{{User|WildWario}} Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all.
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per TheFlameChomp.
====Create without headers====
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Second choice.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I feel this would be better suited for "edge cases" ([[Beach Koopa#Other appearances|Beach Koopa]], [[Scorchit]], [[Yoshi Cookie#Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island|Yoshi Cookie]], [[Fishing Boo#Trivia|Fishing Boo]], [[list of Super Paper Mario pre-release and unused content#Miscellaneous|left]][[tcrf:Super Mario Galaxy#Jungle Beat Leftovers|over]]s, etc.).
====Do nothing====
====Comments====
===Rename "List of clothing" articles for the ''Mario & Luigi'' series to "List of gear", and merge "List of badges" articles for ''Superstar Saga'' and ''Partners in Time'' with those respective articles===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|4-0-0|Do both}}
Regarding the former part, "gear" is the term more consistantly used in these games such as in the menu and in shops. Regarding the latter, lists for the different types of gear (e.g gloves and boots) are not split (and the badge list for Superstar Saga's remake is already merged), so this would make those more consistant with the other pages.
I will list the articles here for convenience:<br>
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]]; [[List of badges in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]]<br>
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time]]; [[List of badges in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time]]<br>
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story]]<br>
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Dream Team]]<br>
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam]]<br>
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions]]<br>
[[List of clothing in Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey]]
'''Proposer''': {{User|Swallow}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 14, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====Do both====
#{{User|Swallow}} Per proposal
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Per Swallow.
#{{user|7feetunder}} Per proposal.
====Only rename articles====
====Only merge badge lists with respective clothing articles====
====Do neither====
====Comments====
Reminder I did pass a proposal to split all the individual items in them, but haven't yet gotten around to it due to the massive undertaking it will be. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:15, January 7, 2022 (EST)
:We could still retain the list pages to link to all the articles afterwards. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:19, January 7, 2022 (EST)
::Yeah there's still no reason to not have these list pages. For one thing, we still have articles listing all the badges in the first two Paper Mario games which all have their own articles. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 15:28, January 7, 2022 (EST)
Shouldn't these article names be "List of (game title) gear" anyway, to be consistent with every other list articles (ie [[List of Mario Party 6 minigames]], [[List of Paper Mario quotes]], [[List of Super Mario Odyssey media]])? {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 17:01, January 10, 2022 (EST)
:There are still some article titles that are not like that, such as [[List of weapons in Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle]] and the aforementioned ''Paper Mario'' [[List of badges in Paper Mario|badge]] [[List of badges in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door|lists]]. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 17:46, January 10, 2022 (EST)
::I do think the other articles should be renamed to match most listicles in the wiki. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 19:32, January 11, 2022 (EST)
===Split or Merge ''Mario Kart Tour's'' Pallet Swaps===
{{ProposalOutcome|canceled}}
Okay, this has been on my mind for a bit now and it's largely in part to the [[Talk:Spike Top#Merge Red Spike Top with Spike Top, Take Three|Red Spike Top]] proposal going on. Red Spike Tops are considered being merged because they feature no distinct differences from Spike Tops other than their shell color. Despite opposing, I can see the logic behind this; they are pallet swaps and, for the most part, pallet swaps are naturally kept together in the parent species article. This got the gears in my brain turning and I realized that we have articles for pallet swapped karts and gliders from ''Mario Kart Tour'', but we don't have articles for the pallet swapped characters. The karts and gliders have their own articles because they have [[Talk:Turbo Yoshi#Comments|different special skills, Favorite Courses and Favored Courses]], but it strikes me as odd that the characters don't get the same treatment, despite having the same differences. I made a whole [[User:Tails777/Work|work page]] detailing as much as I could, but perhaps diving into the entire pallet swap deal as a whole would be a bit of a big jump. So I propose we start with ''Mario Kart Tour'', a game that I feel has an ongoing inconsistency with the idea. Karts and Gliders have their own articles, pallet swap or not, but the characters do not. So I propose one of three options:
*'''Split Pallet Swapped Characters:''' This option would be to split the characters that are mere color swaps: Yoshis, Shy Guys, Pit Crew Toads, Birdos, Freerunning Koopas and the golden variants (Dry Bones, King Boo etc). These articles would only cover their appearances in ''Mario Kart Tour'' for now and not the appearances in games such the ''Mario Baseball series'' or ''Mario Sports Superstars''. They would be consistent with the pallet swapped karts and gliders, which all have their own articles. For now, I think this should be limited to the colored pallet swaps only rather than the actual characters dressed up in themed outfits, unless people think those would be strong enough to have their own articles too.
*'''Merge Pallet Swapped Karts/Gliders:''' This option is obviously the opposite. Karts and gliders would be merged into their the articles of the karts and gliders they are based on, much like how the characters are currently handled. Examples would include the B Dasher variants to the [[B Dasher]] article, the [[Pumpkin Kart]] and it's [[Gold Pumpkin Kart|gold variant]] to the [[Apple Kart]] and such. This would not apply to the Gold Glider or Gold Standard, as both have previously appeared in ''Mario Kart 7'' and ''8'', as well as the Gold Standard only appearing in Gold Rush mode in ''Tour'' and not being a fully usable kart anyway.
*'''Do Nothing:''' Nothing happens and wiki life continues as normal.
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Tails777}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' January 27, 2022, 23:59 GMT<br>
'''Date Withdrawn:''' January 21, 2022
====Split ''Mario Kart Tour'' Pallet Swap Characters====
#{{User|Tails777}} This is personally my preferred option. It remains consistent with the karts and gliders by only covering their appearance in ''Mario Kart Tour'', providing articles covering the same differences as the karts and gliders do.
====Merge ''Mario Kart Tour'' Pallet Swap Karts/Gliders====
#{{User|Tails777}} This would be my secondary choice, as merging them would make them more consistent with how we treat the costumed characters.
====Do Nothing====
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} I kind of agree with the sentiment behind this proposal, but I feel like it simultaneously doesn't go far enough in some areas and too far in others. If the split articles only cover Mario Kart Tour that'll not only be very inconsistent with other color variants that got articles but feel very arbitrary (why does Red Yoshi's appearance in Tour only get coverage when there's also stat differences, SMW powers etc.? That's just one example). At the same time I don't know how many of these need to be split, breaking up the Roving Racers into multiple pages (which again, wouldn't cover Odyssey for some reason) feels kind of unnecessary. More importantly: How would this affect costume swaps? They're not mentioned here, but for all intents and purposes, the difference between Wario and Wario (Hiker) is the same as Yoshi and Blue Yoshi. I'm all for reconsidering our stance on giving articles to palette swaps, and at the very least I'd like to see the Yoshi merge reversed, but this isn't the way to do it, I think.
#{{User|7feetunder}} Per Waluigi Time.
#{{User|Swallow}} This would be way too excessive.
#{{User|WildWario}} Splitting most of the variant drivers in my opinion is too excessive. They share most of their animations with the original too. If we had an article for "King Boo (Gold)", it would be too short, since it only appears in one game, and it's content will likely be too repetitive with King Boo. The kart/glider merges would be weird too, as [[Calico Parafoil]] and [[Rose Parasol]] are variants of the [[Parafoil]] and [[Peach Parasol]], but they look completely different.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Like Waluigi Time, I am not opposed to the idea of reconsidering how certain palette swaps are dealt with, but I have concerns that this proposal creates too many inconsistencies by focusing solely on ''Mario Kart Tour'', and even feels somewhat inconsistent by the way it addresses that game alone by not addressing the costumes.
====Comments====
'''@Waluigi Time''': The main reason I'm choosing to cover ''Tour'' only right now is because it's got a very simple, kinda enclosed solution. As I mentioned, diving into all sorts of pallet swaps deals with a lot more than just the Yoshis or Shy Guys; it could steer into RPG enemies as well, as they also feature pallet swaps and different stats. Trust me, I'd fully support splitting the Yoshis back into their separate articles because of their multiple appearances with differences (as you mentioned, ''Super Mario World''). But because that topic covers so much, I thought it would be a hard and somewhat complicated place to start. So I thought of covering ''Tour'' only because the solutions are more simple to work with. Additionally, I do address the idea of costumed alternates, being something that could also qualify if people think they should. I would also support the idea, because like the colored pallet swaps, karts and gliders, they feature the same differences. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
:It's not as simple as you think. I mean, you want to do this for consistency, but doing it creates multiple blatant inconsistencies as Waluigi Time said, not to mention the arbitrariness of splitting ''only'' the palette swaps and not alternate costumes like Detective Baby Rosalina. Sometimes a "simple" solution just doesn't cut it. <small>Also, you're spelling "palette" wrong, we're not talking about a town in ''Pokémon''.</small> {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 20:23, January 20, 2022 (EST)
::There is already an inconsistency though. Like, the Shy Guys are merged, but not the B Dasher Mk. 2s? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:32, January 20, 2022 (EST)
::'''@7feetunder''': Okay, in my defense, I TRIED to think about as much of this as possible. I wrote a lot down on my personal work page about this, but my main thought was to TRY to come up with something simple. I understand this is not an easy topic to tackle, but I still wanted to try something. I felt it would've been easier to simply start with how we cover ''Mario Kart Tour's'' topics; as the karts and gliders do get articles, but the characters do not. Like I said, twice, I'm open to include the costumed alternates because they feature the same differences. And to be frankly honest, I don't appreciate my efforts being casually passed off as "arbitrary". I understand I've jumped the gun more often than not recently and I really did want to avoid that this time. But to say I put no thought into this feels unfair. <small>Also thank you, I get spellings mixed up a lot</small>{{User:Tails777/sig}}
:::No need to get defensive, no one here is attacking you. I did not say anything about you putting "no thought" into this. Anyway, sometimes in situations like this, it's better to start a plain discussion to get ideas from the community than trying to jump right into a proposal. Like I said, sometimes there ''is'' no easy solution to a problem, and this is one of those times. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 21:36, January 20, 2022 (EST)
:::::Okay, no problem. I didn't mean to get defensive in a negative way. But I definitely want to strike a discussion about this and I'm going about doing so. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
What's your opinion on [[Goo-Goo Buggy]]/[[Rattle Buggy]], [[Red Fire]]/[[Green Fire]], [[Heart Coach]]/[[Bloom Coach]], [[Piranha Pipes]]/[[Boo Pipes]], [[Light Tripper]]/[[Light Dancer]] as well as the StandardXX articles (like [[Standard BW]])? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:21, January 20, 2022 (EST)
:I more support the idea of splitting these types of topics, so the Double Dash Karts and MKDS standards are fine the way they are in my point of view. They feature difference stats, with karts like the Boo Pipes being different among most heavyweight karts. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
::Yeah, I know it's different games, but it's just to help jog the cogs a little. So, the reasoning here is that these karts have different stats, but anyhow, one argues that the colored characters in some games also have different stats, like the colored Yoshis across Baseball AND in Mario Tennis Open as well as in Yoshi Touch & Go and Super Mario Run. Same for the merged colored Shy Guys who have different stats in both Baseball and in Smash Run (as well as different tattles). So, how are we to proceed with alts of the Mario Kart Tour? Why should Pit Stop Toad be merged with Toad while Sky-Blue B Dasher Mk. 2 gets a separate page from B Dasher Mk. 2? Note you can make a case for Swimsuit Rosalina merged with Rosalina due to pertaining to one character ultimately, but you can't argue this for generic species. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:59, January 20, 2022 (EST)
:::I did try to dive into pallet swaps in a more broad sense, addressing the idea of appearances in the ‘’Mario Baseball series’’ and such. I’d greatly support including that information too, as they showcase clear differences, but I thought starting with everything at once would be going too far, which is why I started at ‘’Mario Kart Tour’’ alone. I’ve written down everything on my work page [[User:Tails777/Work|here]] and I would appreciate it if people could look at it so it may hopefully add to this discussion. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
::::I see. Though I appreciate the attempt of firing up a proposal draw attention to an issue in the wiki, I do think the proposal is a little premature if your aims is to have a sort of way of dealing with current large inconsistencies on coverage, no offense! [[File:DrMW Goomba Patient 3.png|30px]] I think you should first try to gauge how people view this coverage, see if it's a serious problem, and then work out a few solutions, maybe starting even smaller scale like talk page discussions. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 21:19, January 20, 2022 (EST)
:::::No offense taken. If anything, I appreciate that. Honestly, part of me didn't know where to bring this up, whether it was something that could be just fired up on a talk page or if I had to go to the forums. Starting a proposal was just the first place my brain went to cause it was something most people would notice. I apologize if I jumped the gun again. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
I am willing to withdraw this proposal to talk about the topic more elsewhere. I completely understand where the opposing side is getting at: the idea of covering ''Tour'' only. Again, my reasoning was an attempt at starting simple, but it is very clear that it was not nearly as simple as anticipated. However, I still can't understand why we'll make articles for the [[Blue Biddybuggy]], which is literally the blue color swap from ''Mario Kart 8'', but not for something like Blue Yoshi. That's where my main concern comes from. In my overall opinion, I'd rather split articles like colored Yoshis and cover every instance where their colors differentiated from each other, such as in ''Super Mario World'', the ''Mario Baseball series'' and such, and do so for other pallet swaps. I really do want to discuss this further to try to come to some sort of conclusion. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
===Merge [[Spiky John]] with [[Spiky Tom]] (or place both under [[Koopatrol]])===
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-0-8|Do nothing}}
Both are Koopatrols who take part in a quiz show. There isn’t a lot to say about either one given their short appearance. IDK why they have different pages to begin with if [[Ashley & Red]], [[Kat & Ana]], [[Young Cricket & Master Mantis]] or [[Dribble & Spitz]] have more appearances but are merged together. Their appearance is so brief that they could probably be merged under Koopatrol as well.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Remembered Old Buddy}}<br>
'''Deadline''': February 1, 2022, 2:27 PM GMT
====Merge Spiky John with Spiky Tom====
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} They're named, unique characters, so they still fall under the [[MarioWiki:Minor NPCs|minor NPCs policy]]. If anything, I would be fine with this option.
#{{User|Remembered Old Buddy}} Per proposal
====Merge them under Koopatrol====
====Do not merge====
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Second choice.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Archivist Toadette. This would also be inconsistent with [[Gary (Super Paper Mario)|Gary]] and [[Goomba (Super Paper Mario character)|Goomba (''Super Paper Mario'' character)]] being split.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} They're both valid articles per [[MarioWiki:Minor NPCs]].
#{{User|Tails777}} Per Hewer.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per all.
#{{User|Swallow}} Per all
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|OhoJeeOnFire}} Per all.
====Comments====
Hewer, we can merge the Goombas as well. {{User:Remembered Old Buddy/sig}}
===Merging of ''Wrecking Crew'' and ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases===
{{ProposalOutcome|no quorum|2-0-0-0}}
There are 100 different phases in ''[[Wrecking Crew]]'' and ''[[VS. Wrecking Crew]]'' that don't have much going for them. In ''Wrecking Crew'', phases are constructed out of the same few tiles and enemies. Unlike other ''Mario'' games, I believe there isn't enough information in a single stage to justify creating a new article for each of them. You can see the phases on [https://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/wreckingcrew/ The Spriters Resource]. ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases are even more simular, every phase looks just like the other. I propose to merge these phases into two article for each game: [[List of Wrecking Crew phases|List of ''Wrecking Crew'' phases]] and [[List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases|List of ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases]].
'''Affected pages:'''
* [[Phase 1 (VS. Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 2 (VS. Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 1 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 2 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 3 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 4 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 5 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 6 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 7 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 8 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[:Category:Wrecking Crew levels]]
* [[:Category:VS. Wrecking Crew levels]]
'''Proposer''': {{User|Spectrogram}}<br>
'''Deadline''': February 16, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====Merge into "List of ''Wrecking Crew'' phases" and "List of ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases"====
#{{User|Spectrogram}} per proposal.
#{{User|RHG1951}} I think lists would better suit these games because of the abundance of phases and the more arcade-style gameplay de-emphasizing the importance of an individual level.
====Only merge ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases====
====Only merge ''Wrecking Crew'' phases====
====Keep separate====
====Comments====
===Merging of ''Wrecking Crew'' and ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases (2)===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|5-0-0-0|merge into two list articles}}
'''''(Relisted)'''''
There are 100 different phases in ''[[Wrecking Crew]]'' and ''[[VS. Wrecking Crew]]'' that don't have much going for them. In ''Wrecking Crew'', phases are constructed out of the same few tiles and enemies. Unlike other ''Mario'' games, I believe there isn't enough information in a single stage to justify creating a new article for each of them. You can see the phases on [https://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/wreckingcrew/ The Spriters Resource]. ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases are even more simular, every phase looks just like the other. I propose to merge these phases into two article for each game: [[List of Wrecking Crew phases|List of ''Wrecking Crew'' phases]] and [[List of VS. Wrecking Crew phases|List of ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases]].
'''Affected pages:'''
* [[Phase 1 (VS. Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 2 (VS. Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 1 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 2 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 3 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 4 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 5 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 6 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 7 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[Phase 8 (Wrecking Crew)]]
* [[:Category:Wrecking Crew levels]]
* [[:Category:VS. Wrecking Crew levels]]
'''Proposer''': {{User|Spectrogram}}<br>
'''Deadline''': February 24, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====Merge into "List of ''Wrecking Crew'' phases" and "List of ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases"====
#{{User|Spectrogram}} per proposal.
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per Proposal.
#{{User|RHG1951}} Like I stated last time, the abundance of phases and the arcade-style gameplay of both ''Wrecking Crew'' games de-emphasizing the individual phase make them better suited as lists.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} I can understand keeping the phases together in this case, since there are so many of them without much information to go along with them.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Yeah, they're not really that different between each other. They can easily be covered in a list.
====Only merge ''VS. Wrecking Crew'' phases====
====Only merge ''Wrecking Crew'' phases====
====Keep separate====
====Comments====
===Create a stat table template for karts in ''Mario Kart DS''===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|8-0|create}}
Though we use [[Template:MKW vehicle|this nice table template]] for the articles on the vehicles of ''[[Mario Kart Wii]]'', we give no such treatment for ''[[Mario Kart DS]]''{{'}}s karts; instead opting to directly list each stat on a range from 1 to 10. There are problems with this, however.
Firstly, the stat values listed are rounded to the nearest .5; this results in stats being slightly inaccurate to how they are displayed on the kart select screen in the game. The most egregious example of this, in my opinion, is the [[Standard DB]]: Despite it having acceleration and handling stats just short of the maximum value (by ''one pixel'', in the case of the former), both stats are listed on its page as a perfect 10/10.
Futhermore, ''Mario Kart DS'' determines weight based on the kart ''and'' the driver, but the weight stats listed on the kart pages are for the karts being used with their default drivers. This results in all of the Standard karts having different weight stats when they should all have the same weight, for example.
Therefore, I propose the creation of a ''Mario Kart DS'' stat table template that can use the stats listed [[Mario_Kart_DS#Karts|here]], in the style of the one we have for ''Mario Kart Wii''.
'''Proposer''': {{User|ShootingStar7X}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 3, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====Support====
#{{User|ShootingStar7X}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|Mister Wu}} I think we should give the underlying stats more relevance, but for the moment at least having an accurate reporting of the menu stats should be a goal and this template should help in achieving it.
#{{user|WildWario}} Per proposal.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal.
#{{User|DannyTheDingo}} Per proposal.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all.
====Oppose====
====Comments====
Now that that's out of the way, should the weight bonus of the kart's default driver be listed on the template or not? [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 14:41, February 24, 2022 (EST)
:I think it and the off-road multiplier should be listed in the [[Mario Kart DS#Characters|drivers section]] instead, similar to how ''[[Mario Kart Wii#Drivers|Mario Kart Wii]]'' has it currently. The two stats won't even require a separate table, unlike ''Wii'''s seven bonuses. (Have we cited [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AOsNSwGc4NliVi0Wn3YQ4_mjCIyEULE7gIzUn9iDC04/edit?usp=sharing| this data sheet] already? I'll put it here just in case.) {{User:DannyTheDingo/sig}} 06:11, March 3, 2022 (EST)
::We have our own dump of the internal stats, so we refer to that. Sadly, that table doesn't add new columns we haven't decoded yet in the raw data table, and our experience with ''Mario Kart Wii'' is that we can't rely on the reinterpretation tables - sometimes they make mistakes that then are hard to spot without reconstructing how the value was derived.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 07:34, March 3, 2022 (EST)
@Mister Wu — That's a good idea, but how should we implement them into the stat tables: In parentheses after the in-game stat numbers, in a {{tem|hover}} tooltip on the stat numbers, in another table altogether, or something else entirely? [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 21:21, February 24, 2022 (EST)
:For the moment, I think a collapsible section that is hidden by default will work - we still need someone to confirm if the "while drifting" acceleration values are indeed used when drifting and what is the purpose of several additional stats.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 03:41, February 25, 2022 (EST)
::I'm guessing you don't want them displayed in bars like the in-game stats as they don't have an unified maximum value, correct? [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 09:52, February 27, 2022 (EST)
:::You potentially can use bars, but you should first evaluate what you want to do with them: the bars whose length is proportional to the actual value will show small differences in stats like maximum speed, the bars that show the ranking of the kart with respect to that stat will show big differences even when the underlying stat doesn't change that much. The game menu uses a system similar to the latter.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 03:31, February 28, 2022 (EST)
===Do not consider usage of classic recurring themes as references to the game of origin===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|9-0}}
I feel like this wiki has been taking this a bit far. For example, whenever the ''Super Mario Bros.'' ground theme is used in a game, we always consider it a direct reference to the game ''Super Mario Bros.'', when really since then it's become more Mario's main theme. Same with the underground theme for caves and airship theme for airships (usage for those are always considered references to ''Super Mario Bros.'' and ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' respectively). This proposal hopes to cut down on that, and will not affect themes which hardly appear in other games, such as the ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' ground theme appearing in ''Paper Mario: Color Splash''.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Swallow}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 9, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====Support====
#{{User|Swallow}} Per proposal; basically any theme that has become a staple throughout the franchise.
#{{User|Somethingone}} Sure. We did the same with enemies a while back, might as well do it for this too.
#{{User|Spectrogram}} per proposal.
#{{User|WildWario}} Per proposal.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} If Goombas appear in a game, we don't list it as a reference to ''Super Mario Bros.'' Per all.
====Oppose====
====Comments====
===Decide how to cover the ''Sonic the Hedgehog'' animal friends===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|0-9-0|Create a collective article}}
Alright, so at the moment the ''Sonic the Hedgehog'' animal friends are only covered as external links, and, as they mainly appear as audience members, up until ''Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020'' that worked well enough. But in that game, you can talk to several of the animal characters in the Story Mode, and given that as well as that they've also made consistent appearances across the series and even got a few collectibles to themselves, I think it might be time for them to get a little bit of coverage here too. The animals in question are:
*[[SonicRetro:Cucky|Cuckies]] (Chickens): Olympic audience, 2012 3DS badge, 2020 story mode character, SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo
*[[SonicRetro:Flicky|Flickies]] (Bluebirds): Olympic audience, 2012 3DS badge, 2020 story mode character, SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo
*[[SonicRetro:Pecky|Peckies]] (Penguins): Olympic audience, 2012 3DS badge, 2020 story mode character, SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo
*[[SonicRetro:Picky|Pickies]] (Pigs): Olympic audience, 2012 3DS badge, 2020 story mode character, SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo
*[[SonicRetro:Pocky|Pockies]] (Rabbits): 2020 story mode character, SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo
*[[SonicRetro:Ricky|Rickies]] (Squirrels): SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo
*[[SonicRetro:Rocky|Rockies]] (Walruses): SSB Wii U trophy and stage cameo
I think there are three ways to go about it:
*'''Individual articles''': Does what it says on the tin, make separate articles for each of the species of animal.
*'''Collective article''': Create a page that covers all of the animals, in the vein of pages like [[Pokémon]] and [[Assist Trophy]]. Given how minor some of the appearances are, I think this is the best option. The page would probably have a collective history section for all of them, as well as a section just elaborating on what each of them are.
*'''Stick to external links''': Just leave it at Sonic Retro links for all of the animals.
At this moment in time, I wouldn't entirely be sure what to call a collective page, as in crossover appearances they've never had a consistent name (To my knowledge, Fauna of Windy Hill Zone, Animals of Windy Hill Zone, Audience, Sonic's animal pals and simply animals have been used across various games), and I don't know if there's anything more concrete in Sonic games, so please let me know if you can think of a suitable name for the page.
'''Proposer''': {{User|BBQ Turtle}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 20, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====Individual articles====
====Collective article====
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per proposal
#{{User|Somethingone}} Splitting every single miniscule thing from a collective article due to identity was [[Talk:Costume Mario#Create articles for all Costume Mario characters|something we agreed to not do]] before. I'm voting for this as it's the most consistent way to do it.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all, if necessary we can re-assess later. (why did you have to remind me of ''that'' proposal)
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Animal/Animals is apparently capitalized on occasion like in ''Sonic Runners'', so you could just go along those lines <s>and now it's "Clucky" because we can't have nice things</s>.
#{{User|Glowsquid}} <s>I would have voted for the first option solely so the wiki can have a page named "Cucky"</s> makes sense
#{{User|DannyTheDingo}} Per all.
#{{User|Niiue}} <s>glowsquid no this wiki has enough vandalism magnets as is</s> Per all.
====Stick to external links====
====Comments====
Wasn't it "Cookie" according to the Twitter-card things? Granted they did mix up the animals' names... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:02, March 13, 2022 (EDT)
@BBQTurtle "Small animals" was used for the ''Adventure'' games, but those were the "downsized realistic animals" rather than the toony named ones. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:12, March 14, 2022 (EDT)
===Merge some complete BJAODN "articles" with collections===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|1-4-0-0|Option 2}}
I brought this up on a talk page before, but I feel like I should do a proposal before messing around with anything.
So, I was looking over the BJAODN these past 2 weeks for something, and I feel like quite a few of the complete "articles" are normal-entry-level size, and don't really need a separate page. Most notably, the [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Make a website|Make A Website]] "article". It's literally shorter than about 2/5ths of the collection entries we have, and that's including the one comment on the bottom. And there's a few more complete "articles" like this as well; [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Crotch-Face Guy|Crotch-Face Guy]], [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Mario (species)|Mario (species)]], and [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Beezos|Beezos]] from what I can see. I believe these four than easily fit on collection pages.
Additionally, I feel like quite a few collection entries could stand as their own separate articles as well; [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Other#Happiness|while]] [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Other#Speed (episode)|there's]] [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Locations#All Worlds|plenty]] [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Characters#Wizpig|of]] [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/DK_Wiki#Donkey Kong 64|candidates]], the only one I ''really'' want to bring up in this proposal is the entry about the ''[[Luigi's Mansion]]'' game, because it's [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Luigi's Mansion#Luigi's Mansion|almost as big as the Princess Peach's Voice "article"]] despite being merged with a collection. I think this one could be split into it's own complete article as well, but I will leave an option to just merge the 4 small "articles" with collections if people disagree.
So to recap, I have 4 options on what to do:
#'''Just merge the 4 entries with collections.''' If it's too confusing to have Luigi's Mansion collection & a Luigi's Mansion BJAODN article, we can just merge the 4 "articles" I mentioned before.
#'''Merge the 4 entries with collections AND split the Luigi's Mansion game entry into its own complete "article".''' My perferred choice, to merge the 4 "articles" I mentioned with collections & make the Luigi's Mansion game entry into its own complete "article" (maybe with an identifier to avoid confusion).
#'''Just split the Luigi's Mansion game entry into its own complete "article".''' For whatever reason, if we decide the 4 ridiculously small "articles" are big enough to be separate, but also want to split the Luigi's Mansion (game) entry.
#'''Do nothing.''' I could be taking BJAODN organizing too seriously, or someone may disagree with the points I made on both sides.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Somethingone}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 1, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====Option 1====
#{{User|Somethingone}} Second choice. If the Luigi's Mansion (game) entry is to contentious for a separate "article", the 4 short articles I mentioned should at least to be merged.
====Option 2====
#{{User|Somethingone}} Perferred choice.
#{{User|WildWario}} Luigi's Mansion definitely feels big enough, so per proposal.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all.
#{{User|ShootingStar7X}} As someone who also takes BJAODN organization seriously, per all.
#{{User|RHG1951}} Per all.
====Option 3====
====Option 4====
====Comments====
===Establish proper size of the Media section for game articles with a dedicated media list===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|0-0-6-0-0|4-5 audio files}}
Most Media sections of game articles link to a separate list of media (mostly music). It has been the standard for Media sections to have a small sample of files to give an approximate preview of the full list, but the wiki is inconsistent in how many are chosen. At the time of writing, the Media section for ''[[Super Mario 64#Media|Super Mario 64]]'' has five audio files (plus a video), yet ''[[Mario Kart Wii#Media|Mario Kart Wii]]'' and ''[[Mario Kart 7#Media|Mario Kart 7]]'' show only one file each. ''[[Mario Party 8#Media|Mario Party 8]]'' has seven!
This proposal should settle on how many audio files should be chosen for Media sections. This would be more of a strong recommendation than a hard rule, but consistency is the goal here.
Video files are uncommon, but they should still be kept to one per Media section where applicable (see ''[[Super Mario Sunshine#Media|Super Mario Sunshine]]'').
'''Proposer''': {{User|DannyTheDingo}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 5, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====1 audio file====
====2-3 audio files====
====4-5 audio files====
#{{User|DannyTheDingo}} My preferred option. Leaves room for more diverse choices.
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per proposal. This gives us plenty of diversity options while not over-crowding pages with media.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} 4-5 audio files is a good sweet spot for this.
#{{User|WildWario}} Per all.
====6+ audio files====
====No set amount====
====Comments====
I have also come across a few Media sections that merely display the beginning few files from the media list. (Until I recently changed it, the Media section for ''[[Mario Super Sluggers#Media|Mario Super Sluggers]]'' showed the first four in the list. This was a problem because it was largely unrepresentative; the first two were an unused theme and a repetitive 20-second loop heard once in the entire game.) I almost made a proposal about prohibiting this kind of thing, but it seems too uncommon to be worth doing that. {{User:DannyTheDingo/sig}} 05:20, March 29, 2022 (EDT)
:There technically [[MarioWiki:Empty sections|is a rule]] against that sort of thing (the policy doesn't mention media but it can be reasonably assumed to extend to that), so we should probably just add a mention of media sections there. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:31, March 29, 2022 (EDT)
::I feel that it would definitely make sense to add a mention of media sections onto that policy page. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 10:46, March 29, 2022 (EDT)
===Allow/prohibit fan work by former Nintendo staff===
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|6-4-0|allow all such works}}
After their contractual obligations for Nintendo have ended, certain affiliates such as [[Steve Mayles]] and [[Masanori Sato]] have continued to celebrate the franchises they helped shape through various pieces of artwork. These works, consequently, are not direct promotional material nor are they endorsed or acknowledged by Nintendo, pertaining potentially to the realm of fan art more than what this wiki outlines as official material. Nevertheless, the notability that tailgates these people was reason enough for me to have already uploaded a number of their post-contractual works on the wiki.
The proposal's aim is to sort out whether this practice should be further allowed--and on what conditions.
In hashing over the proposal's options, I will divide these "fan" works by two paradigms, so to speak: those that portray at least one specific character from the ''Mario'' franchise (which can be modified but otherwise still recognizable), and those that are parodies or feature vaguely-represented elements pertaining to the franchise, but do not otherwise portray any officially recognised character. Examples from the former include [https://twitter.com/PlaytonicGames/status/1308781988053164032?s=20 an illustration of Dixie Kong by Steve Mayles] <small>(twitter.com)</small>, [https://www.instagram.com/p/CVPpho6B3Ma/ a sketch of Yoshi by Masanori Sato] <small>(instagram.com)</small>, and a [https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ4W9Eyv0yj/ Bob-omb King-like creature accompanied by an actual Bob-omb] <small>(instagram.com)</small>, also by Sato; examples of the latter include [https://www.instagram.com/p/CVp-W_lDdQh/ an illustration of two Mario&Luigi-like characters] <small>(instagram.com)</small>, [https://www.instagram.com/p/CXfOu6soxq1/ another of a turtle-esque fairy] <small>(instagram.com)</small> resembling [[Boom Boom]] or [[Pom Pom]], and [https://www.instagram.com/p/CbC9gUiroSQ/ yet another of a distinctly Wario-looking fellow] <small>(instagram.com)</small>.
In this respect, I propose three directions:
#Allow any and all such works;
#Allow only works that portray at least one recognised ''Mario'' element, but not those that are derivative of the ''Mario'' franchise; could likely help the wiki avoid legal stuff;
#Prohibit all such works and delete existing uploads. If Nintendo didn't recognise them, they don't belong here.
I should note that the proposal excludes work that has had a function in the promotion or development of a certain media product or the franchise in general, such as Miyamoto's [[:File:Edge cover - Mario and Luigi (Miyamoto drawing).jpg|drawn cover for the ''Edge'' magazine]], or the ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' [[:File:CAPCOM SmashArt.jpg|Mario-Rathalos artwork]].
'''Proposer''': {{User|Koopa con Carne}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 6, 2022, 23:59 GMT
====Option 1: Allow all====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} My choice.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Makes sense to me
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
#{{User|Results May Vary}} Very interesting proposal that raises some good points. I'd say that because the staff are still recognized for when they were involved with the ''Mario'' franchise, their artworks should be allowed, especially because a lot of stems from when they were involved & many of the subscribers and viewers would perceive it this way as well.
====Option 2: Allow only on-brand depictions====
#{{User|RHG1951}} While I do love Sato's Mickey & Goofy artwork, I don't think it or any image that only belongs in the artists' gallery section should be uploaded here.
#{{User|Somethingone}} This is a cool idea, but let's at least try to keep it relevant to the namesake of this fan wiki, mkay?
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per all.
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} I think having a bit of a limit on what kind of art can be uploaded is best. Do we know how much art they shared that isn't Mario? Can we expect that number to grow in the future?
====Option 3: Don't allow any, delete existing uploads relating to this category====
====Comments====
At any rate, what do the users in here think of Sato's [https://www.instagram.com/p/CRyHoYSBHf0/?utm_medium=copy_link ''Mario & Luigi''-esque portrayal of Mickey and Goofy]? Is it worth [[:File:Instagram Masanori Sato Mickey and Goofy Mario Luigi style.jpg|keeping it]] on the wiki for the stylistic and dynamic similarities alone? {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:44, March 30, 2022 (EDT)
@RHG1951 @Somethingone I pointed out the Mickey and Goofy image as an individual case, because I thought some users may find its connection to Mario way too tenuous, and probably only coincidental given the fact that an artist can practice their style without this necessarily connecting their works. The artwork deprecated by the second option still relates to Mario in more than just style; do keep this in mind. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:01, March 30, 2022 (EDT)
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