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Talk:Pale Piranha (edit)

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→‎Split Pale Piranha and Piranha Plant: contraction
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==Split Pale Piranha and Piranha Plant==
==Split Pale Piranha and Piranha Plant==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|6-10|don't split}}
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|6-10|do not split}}


This needs to be fixed.Pale Piranha needs its own article.It is a subspecies of Piranha Plant,much like Dull Bones is a sub-species of Dry Bones.Their stronger relatives both appaer later in the game.Just Because the Piranha Plants in the pit of 100 trials are stronger,they are stll garden-variety piranha plants.According to Goombella's tattles,(which is more offficial than the japanese names)The Pale Piranhas are a sub-species and the normal colored ones are normal piranha plants.
This needs to be fixed.Pale Piranha needs its own article.It is a subspecies of Piranha Plant,much like Dull Bones is a sub-species of Dry Bones.Their stronger relatives both appaer later in the game.Just Because the Piranha Plants in the pit of 100 trials are stronger,they are stll garden-variety piranha plants.According to Goombella's tattles,(which is more offficial than the japanese names)The Pale Piranhas are a sub-species and the normal colored ones are normal piranha plants.
Line 136: Line 136:


== Re-re-re-merge into Piranha Plant yet again: the Squeakwel ==
== Re-re-re-merge into Piranha Plant yet again: the Squeakwel ==
 
{{SettledTPP}}
{{TPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|15-11|merge}}
This is a case of inconsistent localization, to the point of even being inconsistent with itself. To wit, see [[User talk:LinkTheLefty/Archive 7#Pink Fuzzy|here]] for their tattles across each localization. The only other localization to distinguish this ''at all'' from the typical Packun is European Spanish, and even it states that it is the exact same thing with a color adaptation for the forest. Additionally, let's look at the English tattle:
This is a case of inconsistent localization, to the point of even being inconsistent with itself. To wit, see [[User talk:LinkTheLefty/Archive 7#Pink Fuzzy|here]] for their tattles across each localization. The only other localization to distinguish this ''at all'' from the typical Packun is European Spanish, and even it states that it is the exact same thing with a color adaptation for the forest. Additionally, let's look at the English tattle:
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
That's a Pale Piranha.<br>You know about these guys.<br>The famous Piranha Plants.<br>This colorless subspecies is adapted to Boggly Woods.<br>Ah, the wonders of nature!<br>Max HP is 4, Attack is 2, and Defense is 0.<br>If you try to jump on them, they'll totally chomp on you.
That's a Pale Piranha.<br>You know about these guys.<br>The famous Piranha Plants.<br>This colorless subspecies is adapted to Boggly Woods.<br>Ah, the wonders of nature!<br>Max HP is 4, Attack is 2, and Defense is 0.<br>If you try to jump on them, they'll totally chomp on you.
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Note that this seems to be confused with itself, alternating between calling them the very same plants Mario is familiar with and a "colorless subspecies." On that note, it should be emphasized that "subspecies" does not necessarily mean the same thing as how the wiki misused it for years. Additionally, given that this is the localization that gave us such gems as [[Sky Blue Spiny|Spinies coming from pipes]], taking care of [[Li'l Oink|Bubu]], giving [[Toad Town]] several different names, and forcing us into the endless [[Goomboss|Chestnut King]] debate, it's clear that it was a pretty slapdash job at times.
Note that this seems to be confused with itself, alternating between calling them the very same plants Mario is familiar with and a "colorless subspecies." On that note, it should be emphasized that "{{wp|subspecies}}" does not necessarily mean the same thing as how the wiki misused it for years. Additionally, given that this is the localization that gave us such gems as [[Sky Blue Spiny|Spinies coming from pipes]], taking care of [[Li'l Oink|Bubu]], giving [[Toad Town]] several different names, and forcing us into the endless [[Goomboss|Chestnut King]] debate, it's clear that it was a pretty slapdash job at times.


Anyways, this is clearly just as much the normal Piranha Plant as Boggly Woods' Cleft is the normal Cleft; related is how [[Moon Cleft|the final Cleft type]] in the game used the previous normal coloration.
Anyways, this is clearly just as much the normal Piranha Plant as Boggly Woods' Cleft is the normal Cleft; related is how [[Moon Cleft|the final Cleft type]] in the game used the previous normal coloration.


EDIT:
'''EDIT:'''<br>
Apparently at least some people didn't see the obvious link I put up top, so I'll go ahead and put the other tattles here.
Apparently at least some people didn't see the link I put up top, so I'll go ahead and put the other tattles here.
*Japanese:
 
<blockquote>『パックンフラワー』よ<br>
 
{|width=40% cellspacing=0 border=2 cellpadding=3;" style="border-collapse:collapse
|-
!Language
!Tattle
!Translation
|-
|Japanese
|
『パックンフラワー』よ<br>
まいど　おなじみの　デンジャラスな<br>
まいど　おなじみの　デンジャラスな<br>
かみつき<span class="explain" title="はな">花</span>ね<br>
かみつき<span class="explain" title="はな">花</span>ね<br>
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こうげき<span class="explain" title="りょく">力</span>は『2』 ぼうぎょ<span class="explain" title="りょく">力</span>は『0』よ<br>
こうげき<span class="explain" title="りょく">力</span>は『2』 ぼうぎょ<span class="explain" title="りょく">力</span>は『0』よ<br>
ジャンプで　ふみつはようと　すると<br>
ジャンプで　ふみつはようと　すると<br>
かみつかれるから　ちゅういしてね</blockquote>
かみつかれるから　ちゅういしてね
**Rough translation:
|
<blockquote> Piranha Plant:<br>
Piranha Plant:<br>
The ever familiar and dangerous<br>
The ever familiar and dangerous<br>
biting flower.<br>
biting flower.<br>
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attack power is 2, and defense power is 0.<br>
attack power is 2, and defense power is 0.<br>
When you try to jump,<br>
When you try to jump,<br>
it can bite you.</blockquote>
it can bite you.
 
|-
*European Spanish:
|European Spanish
<blockquote>Es una Planta Piraña Gris.<br>
|
Es una Planta Piraña Gris.<br>
La misma flor peligrosa<br>
La misma flor peligrosa<br>
de siempre...<br>
de siempre...<br>
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Ni se te ocurra saltar sobre<br>
Ni se te ocurra saltar sobre<br>
ellas, porque te morderán<br>
ellas, porque te morderán<br>
y te harán daño.</blockquote>
y te harán daño.
**Rough translation:
|
<blockquote>It is a Gray Piranha Plant.<br>
It is a Gray Piranha Plant.<br>
The same dangerous flower<br>
The same dangerous flower<br>
as always...<br>
as always...<br>
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Don't even think about jumping on<br>
Don't even think about jumping on<br>
them, because they will bite you<br>
them, because they will bite you<br>
and they will hurt you.</blockquote>
and they will hurt you.
 
|-
*European French:
|European French
<blockquote>C'est une Plante piranha.<br>
|
C'est une Plante piranha.<br>
Une vieille connaissance<br>
Une vieille connaissance<br>
aux crocs acérés.<br>
aux crocs acérés.<br>
Line 208: Line 219:
Défense: 0.<br>
Défense: 0.<br>
Si tu sautes dessus,<br>
Si tu sautes dessus,<br>
tu vas te faire mordre!</blockquote>
tu vas te faire mordre!
**Rough translation:
|
<blockquote>It is a Piranha Plant.<br>
It is a Piranha Plant.<br>
An old acquaintance<br>
An old acquaintance<br>
with sharp fangs.<br>
with sharp fangs.<br>
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Defense: 0.<br>
Defense: 0.<br>
If you jump on it,<br>
If you jump on it,<br>
you will get bitten!</blockquote>
you will get bitten!
 
|-
*German:
|German
<blockquote>Das ist eine Piranha-Pflanze,<br>
|
Das ist eine Piranha-Pflanze,<br>
eine Fleisch fressende Pflan-<br>
eine Fleisch fressende Pflan-<br>
ze, die du gut kennst, oder?<br>
ze, die du gut kennst, oder?<br>
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Wenn du auf diese Pflanzen<br>
Wenn du auf diese Pflanzen<br>
springst, beißen sie zu. Ver-<br>
springst, beißen sie zu. Ver-<br>
meide also Sprungattacken.</blockquote>
meide also Sprungattacken.
**Rough translation:
|
<blockquote>This is a Piranha Plant,<br>
This is a Piranha Plant,<br>
a carnivorous plan-<br>
a carnivorous plan-<br>
t that you know well, right?<br>
t that you know well, right?<br>
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If on these plants<br>
If on these plants<br>
you jump, they will bite you. S-<br>
you jump, they will bite you. S-<br>
o avoid jumping attacks.</blockquote>
o avoid jumping attacks.
 
|-
*Italian:
|Italian
<blockquote>È una Pianta Piranha!<br>
|
È una Pianta Piranha!<br>
È il solito vecchio fiore<br>
È il solito vecchio fiore<br>
che morde!<br>
che morde!<br>
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la potenza è 2, la difesa è 0.<br>
la potenza è 2, la difesa è 0.<br>
Se pensi di saltarle sopra<br>
Se pensi di saltarle sopra<br>
stai attento: può mordere!</blockquote>
stai attento: può mordere!
**Rough translation:
|
<blockquote>It's a Piranha Plant!<br>
It's a Piranha Plant!<br>
It's the same old flower<br>
It's the same old flower<br>
that bites!<br>
that bites!<br>
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the power is 2, the defense is 0.<br>
the power is 2, the defense is 0.<br>
If you plan to jump on it<br>
If you plan to jump on it<br>
be careful: it can bite!</blockquote>
be careful: it can bite!
|}


As can be seen, the reference to Mario being familiar with them in the tattle is '''''absolutely''''' a reference to the specific enemy being tattled, and the "subspecies" bit is '''''solely''''' an awkward tack-on for the English localization (or even spitballing from Goombella herself) that ultimately means diddly-squat.
As can be seen, the other languages are ''adamant'' this is the same plant from previous adventures. As such, the reference to Mario being familiar with them in the tattle is '''''absolutely''''' a reference to the specific enemy being tattled, and the "subspecies" bit is '''''solely''''' an awkward tack-on for the English localization (or even spitballing from Goombella herself) that ultimately means diddly-squat.
 
Also, they were called Piranha Plants and didn't have that "subspecies" bit in the tattle in the pre-release [[tcrf:Proto:Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door/Text & Dialogue#The Great Tree Enemies|kiosk demo]].




'''Proposer:''' {{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Proposer:''' {{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' August 24, 2021, 23:59 (GMT)
'''Deadline:''' <s>August 24, 2021, 23:59 GMT Extended to August 31, 2021, 23:59 GMT Extended to September 7, 2021, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to September 14, 2021, 23:59 GMT


===Support===
===Support===
Line 283: Line 299:
#{{User|Glowsquid}} The other scripts make it sound like a "Goombas are blue in the underground" levels rather than a wholly separate species.
#{{User|Glowsquid}} The other scripts make it sound like a "Goombas are blue in the underground" levels rather than a wholly separate species.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} A closer look at their name across multiple languages shows that they are intended to be the game's "vanilla" Piranha Plants. Per all.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} A closer look at their name across multiple languages shows that they are intended to be the game's "vanilla" Piranha Plants. Per all.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Note that, while Piranha Plant's guidance in ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' does not list some of the most obscure Piranha Plant variants like Tane Packun from ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' or the Piranha Sprout from ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker'', it technically does '''not''' skip any Piranha Plants that also debut within the same game ([[Talk:Piranha Plant#This is the Ultimate|barring minor dub oversights]]). Seeing as how it bothers to bring up Killer Packun but not Pale Piranha, the latter would accordingly '''not''' be considered a new variant in ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' (in retrospect, this logic also means that River and Stalking Piranhas being mentioned but not Ice Piranha should beg [[Talk:Ice Piranha Plant#Potential to merge with Frost Piranha|another shot at Frost Piranha]] and, potentially, [[Talk:Lava Piranha#Regarding this and Fire Piranha Plant|Lava Piranha and Petit Piranha]], but that bridge can be crossed later). Additionally from [[Special:Diff/2907705#About Pink Fuzzy...|previous]] [[Special:Diff/2909743#Re:About Pink Fuzzy...|discussion]]: the [[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door bestiary|Tattle Log]] order already points to Pale Piranha being the "base" version of Piranha Plant in this game over the "Piranha Plant" enemy, much like how the now similarly-monochrome Cleft is listed before Moon Cleft. Renaming Piranha Plant to Pale Piranha and inventing the "subspecies" bit was [[tcrf:Proto:Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door/Text & Dialogue#The Great Tree Enemies|a fairly late decision by the English localizers]], so in essence, this is basically another flavor of the old Para-Beetle/Parabuzzy situation; if this proposal fails, the monochrome Cleft and blue Spike Top are worth another look for consistency's sake, given that their original colors were given to semi-variants as well. We shouldn't have it both ways now.
#{{User|Mister Wu}} While there's evidence suggesting that originally these Piranha Plants were intended to be colored variants, in the final game there's more than enough evidence pointing out how the Pale Piranhas are intended to be the "vanilla" Piranha Plants. As pointed out by LinkTheLefty, they would have been that in the English localization as well, if they didn't change the tattle at the last minute, making it more flowery.
#{{User|7feetunder}} After thinking about it and thinking about it, I'm going to support this. In addition to everything else that's been said, the main sticking point for me is the inconsistency with Cleft. While the last-minute English rename could been seen as an attempt to correct what is honestly a rather bizarre representation of the species (passing off a color variant as the base species and making the standard coloration a "killer" variant), Cleft is in the same boat, and its name left alone, complete with a "moon" variant using the original coloration.
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} - Per all
#{{User|DannyTheDingo}} Seeing how almost every non-English translation describes Pales as the standard Piranha Plants with a color change, it makes no sense to me anymore for the English localization to matter in this case, especially with that pre-release evidence. Per all.
#{{User|Results May Vary}} Per LinkTheLefty and others.
#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} Per all. Not even '''one''' of the other localizations' tattles call them a subspecies, and their Japanese name is also the same as regular Piranha Plants.
#{{User|Lastro}} - Per all. Although in my opinion, it is a kind of subspecies and should not be compared with the Goomba becoming blue in the underground. Here, the species adapted itself to the gray environment. So it's just a subspecies of Piranha Plants that are gray with nothing else special.


===Oppose===
===Oppose===
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#{{User|Tails777}} Per Keyblade Master.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per Keyblade Master.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per Keyblade.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per Keyblade.
#{{User|DannyTheDingo}} The game referring to Pale Piranhas as "the famous Piranha Plants" was only a reintroduction for the species as a whole, as Pale Piranhas are the first ones to be encountered. Per all.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all.
#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.
#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per Keyblade.
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per Keyblade.
#{{User|Alternis}} Per all.
#{{User|Chester Alan Arthur}} Per all.
#{{User|WildWario}} Per all.
<s>#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} The proposal argues a lot of semantics, but to get down to brass tacks, the enemy's name and appearance as well as the "subspecies" qualifier are enough to distinguish it from basic Piranha Plants.</s>


<s>#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} The proposal argues a lot of semantics, but to get down to brass tacks, the enemy's name and appearance as well as the "subspecies" qualifier are enough to distinguish it from basic Piranha Plants.</s>
<s>#{{User|DannyTheDingo}} The game referring to Pale Piranhas as "the famous Piranha Plants" was only a reintroduction for the species as a whole, as Pale Piranhas are the first ones to be encountered. Per all.</s>


===Comments===
===Comments===
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::::::You are correct, statistics don’t transfer between TTYD and SPM due to the latter’s largely divergent game mechanics, so there’d be no reason to split the SPM Piranha Plant. I think it’s fair to say, anyhow, that stats shouldn’t be the sole driving force for or against distinguishing between two enemy iterations, since they’re always subject to change. (I took Doc’s statement for granted and didn’t bother to research, but I amended my vote so it doesn’t reflect on anything related to stats.) Still, to return to the Pale Piranha conundrum, I think in this case localization is key to how we handle the enemy’s identity: more than half of its names across different languages (going by what’s presented on the page; I haven’t played the game yet) purport it’s a generic Piranha Plant, with only the English and Spanish ones making any sort of distinction. It’s pretty clear the latter couple are doozies made on a whim. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 10:38, August 19, 2021 (EDT)
::::::You are correct, statistics don’t transfer between TTYD and SPM due to the latter’s largely divergent game mechanics, so there’d be no reason to split the SPM Piranha Plant. I think it’s fair to say, anyhow, that stats shouldn’t be the sole driving force for or against distinguishing between two enemy iterations, since they’re always subject to change. (I took Doc’s statement for granted and didn’t bother to research, but I amended my vote so it doesn’t reflect on anything related to stats.) Still, to return to the Pale Piranha conundrum, I think in this case localization is key to how we handle the enemy’s identity: more than half of its names across different languages (going by what’s presented on the page; I haven’t played the game yet) purport it’s a generic Piranha Plant, with only the English and Spanish ones making any sort of distinction. It’s pretty clear the latter couple are doozies made on a whim. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 10:38, August 19, 2021 (EDT)
::::::::Ye, stats between PM64 and TTYD don't necessarily correlate either, having more to do with where on the difficulty curve they are encountered. Look at [[Magikoopa]], for example. In Packun's case, it's a Chapter 3 enemy in PM64 and a Chapter 2 enemy in TTYD, so it'll naturally be lower in TTYD. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:38, August 19, 2021 (EDT)
::::::::Ye, stats between PM64 and TTYD don't necessarily correlate either, having more to do with where on the difficulty curve they are encountered. Look at [[Magikoopa]], for example. In Packun's case, it's a Chapter 3 enemy in PM64 and a Chapter 2 enemy in TTYD, so it'll naturally be lower in TTYD. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:38, August 19, 2021 (EDT)
For completion's sake and by request of {{user|Mister Wu}}, here's the tattles for [[Piranha Plant (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)|Killer Packun]] (provided by {{user|Scrooge200}} along with the Spanish-to-English translation, thanks very much!) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:44, August 25, 2021 (EDT)
{|width=40% cellspacing=0 border=2 cellpadding=3;" style="border-collapse:collapse
|-
!Language
!Tattle
!Translation
|-
|Japanese
|
『キラーパックン』よ<br>
パックンフラワーの<span class="explain" title="なか">中</span>でも<br>
コイツが　さいきょうみたい<br>
さいだいＨＰは『１５』で<br>
こうげき<span class="explain" title="りょく">力</span>は『９』　ぼうぎょ<span class="explain" title="りょく">力</span>は『０』よ<br>
おそろしい　こうげき<span class="explain" title="りょく">力</span>だわ・・・<br>
<span class="explain" title="いっけん">一見</span>　ふつうの　パックンフラワーに<br>
<span class="explain" title="み">見</span>えるけど　なかみは　<span class="explain" title="おお">大</span>ちがいだから<br>
ゆだんしちゃ　ダメよ<br>
こんな　ヘンテコな　フラワーに<br>
やられたら　やりきれないわ
|
Killer Piranha:<br>
Among the Piranha Plants,<br>
This one looks to be the best.<br>
Maximum HP is 15,<br>
Attack power is 9, and defense power is 0.<br>
It's a terrifying power...<br>
At first glance, it looks like a normal Piranha Plant,<br>
but I see it's very different,<br>
So don't let your guard down.<br>
Such a strange flower,<br>
If I'm beaten by it, I won't stand it.
|-
|Spanish
|
Esta Planta Piraña parece<br>
de las más fuertes de<br>
su especie.<br>
PC Máximos: 15<br>
Poder de ataque: 9<br>
Poder de defensa: 0<br>
Ese poder de ataque es<br>
exagerado, terrible...<br>
Por eso cometeríamos un<br>
grave error al pensar que<br>
esta es normal y corriente.<br>
No me haría ninguna<br>
gracia terminar devorada<br>
por un hierbajo como ese...
|
This Piranha Plant seems like<br>
the strongest of<br>
its species. <small>''(this can also mean "kind" or "sort")''</small><br>
Max HP: 15<br>
Attack Power: 9<br>
Defense Power: 0<br>
That attack power is<br>
excessive, terrible...<br>
That is why we would make a<br>
grave mistake in thinking that<br>
this is normal and ordinary.<br>
I wouldn't be<br>
happy to end up devoured<br>
by a weed like that...
|-
|French
|
C'est un Piranha Tueur.<br>
Chez les Plantes piranha,<br>
il n'y a pas pire.<br>
PC Max: 15, Puissance: 9,<br>
Défense: 0.<br>
Ça fait mal!<br>
Ça ressemble à une<br>
Plante piranha ordinaire, mais<br>
la différence est mordante!<br>
Je ne pourrais pas supporter<br>
l'idée de me faire avoir par<br>
une plante aussi bizarre!<br>
|
It's a Killer Piranha.<br>
Among Piranha Plants,<br>
there is no worse.<br>
Max HP: 15, Attack: 9,<br>
Defense: 0.<br>
It hurts!<br>
It looks like an<br>
ordinary Piranha Plant, but<br>
the difference is biting!<br>
I couldn't stand<br>
the idea of being bested by<br>
such a weird plant!
|-
|German
|
Das ist ein Killer-Piranha.<br>
Killer-Piranhas sind die Killer<br>
unter den Piranha-Pflanzen.<br>
Max KP: 15, Angriffskraft: 9,<br>
Verteidigung: 0<br>
Das sind ja echte Killer!<br>
Auf den ersten Blick wirken<br>
sie wie ganz normale Piranha-<br>
Pflanzen...<br>
Aber du solltest dich vor<br>
ihnen extrem hüten.<br>
Es wäre doch zu dumm, von<br>
so einer verrückten Blume<br>
besiegt zu werden, oder?
|
It's a Killer Piranha.<br>
Killer Piranhas are the killers<br>
among the Piranha Plants.<br>
Max HP: 15, Attack Power: 9,<br>
Defense: 0<br>
They are real killers!<br>
At first glance, they look<br>
like normal Piranha<br>
Plants...<br>
But you should<br>
be extremely wary of them.<br>
It would be too stupid if by<br>
such a crazy flower<br>
we were defeated, right?
|-
|Italian
|
È una Pianta Piranha!<br>
Fra le Piante Piranha, questa<br>
è decisamente la più potente.<br>
I suoi PV massimi sono 15,<br>
la potenza è 9, la difesa è 0.<br>
La potenza è strepitosa, no?<br>
A prima vista sembra una<br>
Pianta Piranha normale, ma<br>
la differenza è esorbitante!<br>
Non potrei sopportare<br>
l'idea di essere sconfitta<br>
da questo vegetale!
|
It's a Piranha Plant!<br>
Among the Piranha Plants, this one<br>
it is by far the most powerful.<br>
Its maximum HP is 15,<br>
the power is 9, the defense is 0.<br>
The power is amazing, isn't it?<br>
At first glance, it looks like a<br>
normal Piranha Plant, but<br>
the difference is exorbitant!<br>
I could not bear<br>
the idea of being defeated<br>
by this vegetable!<br>
|}
:The reason why I asked for those is that the internal name and appearance suggest that at the beginning the Pit of 100 Trials Piranha Plants were intended to be the "original" Piranha Plants, as supported by some other Western translations, including the Italian one that [http://www.fti.uab.es/tradumatica/revista/num5/articles/06/06central.htm we know being directly based on the Japanese script rather than the English one].
:It should be noted however that, as pointed out by {{User|LinkTheLefty}}, the final English tattle for the Pale Piranha is not based on an earlier Japanese script, but is rather a flowery version of the more accurate translation of the Japanese tattle found in the demo version.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 06:47, August 29, 2021 (EDT)
Why did you edit the proposal text like that? You've got comments section for additional info, and you went over the six-day limit set in rule 14. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 15:30, September 13, 2021 (EDT)
:Because I wasn't editing the ''intent'' of the proposal. I was putting information that was seemingly overlooked in a more obvious place (and I can't expect people to pay attention to the comments section unless they're actively part of a discussion). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:51, September 14, 2021 (EDT)
::Intent? The rule says nothing about intent so any edit to proposal text counts as a rewrite as the rule currently stands. You're implying breaking rules is okay as long as the intent is for the good cause. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 12:28, September 14, 2021 (EDT)
:::The difference between adding new information to the comments section and adding it to the proposal text is trivial at best, so getting worked up over it seems awfully picky IMO. It's more of an addendum than a straight up rewrite. "Any edit to proposal text counts as a rewrite?" The rule doesn't say ''that'' either, so a case could be made that the rule wasn't even broken - the original proposal text hasn't been changed since day 1, and the new important information is clearly marked "EDIT" to indicate that it wasn't there originally. If anything, this just means that the rule should be rewritten to be more clear so it isn't open to interpretation. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 18:42, September 14, 2021 (EDT)
::::It's not even new information, since it was linked to at the start of the proposal. 19:05, September 14, 2021 (EDT)
::::<s>As if the pale piranha situation couldn’t get more conflicting</s>So does this mean this proposal broke rule 14 or not? Or does it mean this is an edge case that hasn’t been discussed until now? [[User:Somethingone|Somethingone]] ([[User talk:Somethingone|talk]]) 19:18, September 14, 2021 (EDT)
:::::The intent of Rule 14 is to prevent proposals from being drastically rewritten in a way that could change the intent of the proposal or directly affect the votes, i.e. changing the outcomes of certain options or adding new ones late in the proposal. Since this is information that was already being clearly presented close to the beginning of the proposal and none of the original content was changed, it's fine. In cases like these it's best to look at the intent of the action rather than following the rule down to the letter every time. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 19:30, September 14, 2021 (EDT)
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