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| == Add parameters for Serbo-Croatian and Bosnian == | | == Add parameters for Serbo-Croatian and Bosnian == |
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| I am requesting the addition of a Serbo-Croatian parameter that is separate from the existing Serbian and Croatian ones, to be used in instances where the name of a particular subject is the same across Serbo-Croatian standards. This is currently the case with a few LEGO ''Super Mario'' products: for example, the name of the Banzai Bill set is identical between the official [https://lstore.hr/products/kiaa-metaka-s-banzai-billom-71366 Croatian], [https://svijetkockica.ba/proizvod/kisa-metaka-s-banzai-billom-prosirena-staza/ Bosnian], and [https://lstore.rs/products/kisa-metaka-s-banzai-billom-71366 Serbian] LEGO stores. Serbian and Croatian should still have their own parameters, though, to account for regional differences, akin to the "Spanish (NOA)" and "Spanish (NOE)" parameters. In this respect, a parameter for Bosnian names should also be added, as a few LEGO ''Super Mario'' products listed on the Bosnian LEGO store, such as the [https://svijetkockica.ba/proizvod/super-mario-64-blok-upitnika/ SM64 ? Block], have localised names that differ from their Serbian and Croatian counterparts and should be documented. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:57, January 17, 2023 (EST) | | I am requesting the addition of a Serbo-Croatian parameter that is separate from the existing Serbian and Croatian ones, to be used for instances where the names of a particular subject are identical across Serbo-Croatian standards. This is currently the case with a few LEGO ''Super Mario'' products: for example, compare the names of the Banzai Bill set between the [https://lstore.hr/products/kiaa-metaka-s-banzai-billom-71366 official Croatian store] and its [https://svijetkockica.ba/proizvod/kisa-metaka-s-banzai-billom-prosirena-staza/ Bosnian] and [https://lstore.rs/products/kisa-metaka-s-banzai-billom-71366 Serbian counterparts]. Serbian and Croatian should still have their own parameters, though, to account for regional differences, akin to the "Spanish (NOA)" and "Spanish (NOE)" parameters. In this respect, a parameter for Bosnian names should also be added, as a few LEGO ''Super Mario'' products listed on the official Bosnian LEGO store, such as the [https://svijetkockica.ba/proizvod/super-mario-64-blok-upitnika/ SM64 ? Block], have translated names that differ from their Serbian and Croatian counterparts and should be documented. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:57, January 17, 2023 (EST) |
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| == Adopt the de-facto format for dissecting foreign names ==
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| {{SettledTPP}}
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| {{ProposalOutcome|failed|1-3|do not use format}}
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|Jdtendo}}<br>
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| '''Deadline''': December 5, 2023, 23:59 GMT
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| There is currently no official format for dissecting foreign names in "Names in other languages" sections. However, there is a de-facto format is used extensively throughout the Super Mario Wiki: surrounding the foreign words with quotation marks (or angle brackets for Japanese and Chinese), and surrounding the English translation with parentheses. Here is an example:
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| {{foreign names
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| |Jap=マガツリー
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| |JapR=Magatsurī
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| |JapM=Play on「禍津日神」(''Magatsuhi-kami'', god of misfortune) and「ツリー」(''tsurī'', tree)
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| |FraE=Épouvantarbre
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| |FraEM=From "épouvante" (terror) and "arbre" (tree)
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| |Ita=Stregalbero
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| |ItaM=From "strega" (witch) and "albero" (tree)
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| |SpaA=Arbólico
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| |SpaAM=From "árbol" (tree) and "diabólico" (diabolic)
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| }}
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| However, some users disagree and will edit a page just for replacing the de-facto format used in a "Names in other languages" section with another format which they consider to be the "right" format, usually by replacing the quotations marks with italics or adding quotation marks around the English translation. Conversely, other users will edit a page just to replace that alternative format with the de-facto format. Basically, every user has their own vision of how name dissecting should be formatted, and this creates unnecessary edits and disputes.
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| I propose that we officially adopt the de-facto format for dissecting names, i.e., that we add a subsection in the "[[Template:Foreign names#Meaning guidelines|Meaning guidelines]]" section that describes how to dissect names in accordance with the de-facto format. This would provide a clear-cut way to settle format-related disputes, whilst not requiring too many page edits to accomodate the format since it is already widely used.
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| ===Support===
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| #{{User|Jdtendo}} Per proposal.
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| ===Oppose===
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| #{{User|Koopa con Carne}} [https://knowadays.com/blog/when-to-use-italics-for-non-english-words/ Most major style manuals] (sources in that link), including the wiki's go-to manual MLA, recommend italicizing foreign words, whether always or only or their first use. Official style manuals exist for a purpose: to make writing consistent and help instil some professionality. The format in your proposal doesn't do much in the way of that: why are romanized Japanese words written in italics, but not other foreign words? what makes foreign words, but not their translations, specifically fit to have quotation marks? isn't the purpose of quotation marks to set off words that are mentioned or listed separately from the rest of their clause? Perhaps there are cases where the wiki can deviate ever so slightly from established writing standards to accommodate whatever specific needs it has, especially since style manuals themselves aren't a commandment from the heavens and are subject to change; that doesn't mean it should fully embark in that direction and make rules on the fly, moreso if the only argument for it is "well it's always been that way". Make it make sense.
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| #{{User|MegaBowser64}} Per Koopa con Carne
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| #{{User|YoYo}} Per Koopa con Carne
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| ===Comments===
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| I understand the desire to minimize unnecessary edits, but what makes the de facto format the ideal choice? The format used by MLA standards doesn't do that, it uses italics around foreign words and quotes around the translations (which I assume is because for translations it's meant to indicate what parts of the sentence are the translation, eg. 'It translates to "the bird"'). Also, just to let you know, those edits with people changing one style to another is mostly a group of IPs, I've seen many users here revert those edits before. {{User:Somethingone/sig}} 07:07, November 21, 2023 (EST)
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| :I'm not sure whether following the MLA standards really matters. Personally, I find the de-facto format easier on the eyes. As for the people making the edits, some of them are registered users. One recent example is the Kero Sewers page, in which [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Kero_Sewers&diff=4050701&oldid=4050689 one registered user replaced the de-facto style with the italicized format], then [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Kero_Sewers&diff=4052314&oldid=4051672 another registered user reverted it to the de-facto format]. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 14:33, November 22, 2023 (EST)
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| == Can we add some more Jap slots? ==
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| Some things have many names and the numbered method is a lifesaver. But since there's only three slots, that mitigates its usefulness in many cases. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:56, January 7, 2024 (EST)
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| :Adding to this - I think Chinese and Korean can benefit from some number slots, too. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:05, January 7, 2024 (EST)
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| == Bug when mixing "Fre" and "FreA" ==
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| There is a bug in the template when specifying the "Fre" argument along with "FreA" or "FreE".
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| For example, in the [[Monty Mole#Names in other languages|Monty Mole]] article, this source code is used:
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| <pre>
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| |FreA=La taupe Monty (''[[Super Mario World]]'' manual)
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| |FreAM=The Monty mole
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| |Fre=Topi Taupe
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| |FreM=From ''taupe'' ("mole")
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| </pre>
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| It specifies that Monty Moles were originally called "La taupe Monty" in the Canadian French manual of SMW but are now called "Topi Taupe" in all French-speaking regions.
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| However, the name "La taupe Monty" is inaccurately displayed in both "French" and "French (NOA)" sections.
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| I think that this is due to the use of <code><nowiki>#forargs</nowiki></code> in the template that allows parameterized argument names such as "Fre2", "Fre3", etc. but it also mistakingly consider "FreA" as a valid parameterized argument name for "Fre".
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| The template already checks for argument names ending with "M" to exclude them from the parameterized arguments, but it should also exclude argument names starting with "FreA" or "FreE" when checking for parameterized arguments for "Fre".
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| Or better yet, we could check whether the parameterized keys only contain digits ("Fre'''2'''", "Fre'''3'''"…) and exclude the keys that contain other characters ("Fre'''A'''", "Fre'''M'''"…).
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| I think that this could be done using [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexFunctions regex] with something like <code><nowiki>{{#rmatch:{{#var:key}}|^[0-9]*$|yes|no}}</nowiki></code>.
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| This bug probably affects other argument names that are a prefix of another argument name, such as "Chi" ("ChiS", "ChiT"), "Fre" ("FreA", "FreE"), "Por" ("PorA", "PorE"), "Ser" ("SerCro"), "Spa" ("SpaA", "SpaE").
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| {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 03:18, February 14, 2024 (EST)
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| :Ah, good point. Currently doing the check a different way, but it should be fixed now. Thanks! --{{User:Porplemontage/sig}} 10:18, February 14, 2024 (EST)
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| ::Unfortunately, it does not work for "Fre'''E'''" because <code><nowiki>{{#expr:E}}</nowiki></code> is a valid expression that evaluates to 2.718281828459. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 10:38, February 14, 2024 (EST)
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| ::Maybe checking <code><nowiki>{{#expr:{{#var:key}}0}}</nowiki></code> would work. "E" is a valid expression, but "E0" is not, whereas a number key would still be a number. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 10:48, February 14, 2024 (EST)
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| :::Yes, I think we're good to go with the 0's! --{{User:Porplemontage/sig}} 11:02, February 14, 2024 (EST)
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| == Non-in-game ==
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| Do [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Coin_Block_Blitz&diff=4138110&oldid=4106530 non-in-game names that are identical to the English name] count? <span style="font-family:Mario Party 2/3 Textbox">[[User:RickTommy|RickTommy]] ([[User talk:RickTommy|talk]])</span> 19:50, March 19, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I think that they count, as long as they come from an official source. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 11:59, March 20, 2024 (EDT)
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