Editing Talk:Toad Town

==Superstar Saga?==
Is the beginning region of ''Superstar Saga'' clearly Toad Town, or is it conjecture? I don't remember the place being named. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 11:37, 17 August 2007 (EDT)

Toad Town Square was the name. {{User:Max2/sig}}

==Room beneath the Toad Town port?==
Strange... The last Area Tattle for Toad Town says there's a room beneath the Toad Town port, but I can't seem to find it! Anybody knows how to get there? - {{User:Mr. Br Mario/sig}}

Go on the dock near the lake with Sushi and swim over to the island with a pipe. {{unsigned|Pseudo-dino}}

==SMRPG==
Should we include info on the Mushroom Kingdom that appeared in this game? [[User:Random User| Random User]]
==Super Mario Galaxy 2?==
The recently seen thing in the box should be Super Mario Galaxy 2, Right? --[[User:Koopayoshi|Koopa YOshi :)]] 12:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

==Super Mario 64==
If it says that Peach's Castle is located in Toad Town, wouldn't that make Super Mario 64 the first appearance of Toad Town?--[[User:Jayt55|Jayt55]] 20:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:It never says that in 64, so no. {{User:BluePikminKong497/sig}} 20:44, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Split Toad Town and Toad Town Mall ==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|6-2|SPLIT}}
I know, the guy that does so much for the M&L: BiS game, back with another proposal - rather a TPP I should say.

I really believe this should be split into two articles because 1 - They both have enough vital information to be independent of each other and 2 - The articles dealing with the Mall would make more sense leading into the Toad Town Mall article over the Toad Town in general.

Toad Town Mall has many stores, many events (both strung be plot and being sidequests) taking place in it. Even though it is part of Toad Town, it is not the same as the area where people reside in. And, if this proposal fails, then at least make a sub-header for the mall.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}<br>
'''Deadline''': October 15, 2011, 23:59 GMT.

===Split===
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - Per my proposal.
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} - Per BMB.
#{{User|Mario & Luigi}} Per Baby Mario Bloops
#{{User|Bop1996}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Raven Effect}} Per Proposal
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per all.

===Leave as it===
#{{User|New Super Yoshi}} I think there would not be that much information and mall is part of toad town. I would think the Mall is best with a sub header.
#{{User|Toad85}} Per NSY.

===Comments===
There doesn't appear to be much to state for the Toad Town Mall, based on what has been covered on the Toad Town article.  If it gets split, we'll have to find a way to expand it. {{User:M&amp;SG/sig}} 14:52, 15 October 2011 (EDT)

==Toad Town Cave proposal==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|0-6-2|SPLIT}}

Yep, more Mario & Luigi related stuff.

Well, there is a section in Mario & Luigi called '''Toad Town Caves''', and since we already have Toad Town and Toad Town Mall split, we could at least split these. Reasons: Different area, vital plot lines within, moves learned, and the list can go on. And as you see from the current Toad Town Mall page, you know that it'll be for sure expanded then what is stated on the Toad Town page as of right now.

But a major question is this: Doesn't it intertwine with Toad Town Tunnels from Paper Mario? I mean, both were the sewers of underground Town Toad, as well as their names almost identical. Should we perhaps merge it with [[Toad Town Tunnels]]?

My proposal is whether we merge the M&L info of the Toad Town caves with Toad Town, we split the Toad Town Cave information from the Toad Town into a independent page, or do we just leave it be? And I would have done it with the Toad Town Mall/Peach's Castle Garden TTP's, but I wanted to see how they would play out.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}<br>
'''Deadline''': October 30, 2011, 23:59 GMT.

===Merge M&L:BIS Toad Town caves info with Toad Town Tunnels===

===Split Toad Town Caves from Toad Town into own page===
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - Personally, I like this option because I don't see much connection to Toad Town Tunnels other than location. Of course, that is my opinion.
#{{User|Tails777}} We did a similar thing in the proposal above. Per this proposal.
#{{User|New Super Yoshi}} Like what I said in the Peach's Castle Proposal.
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} Got to keep it the same between proposals, let's split it!
#{{User|Mario & Luigi}} Per all.
#{{User|RandomYoshi}} - Per all.

===Leave it as be===
#I don't like the idea of it because the exit to the tunnels would be a result of directly entering T. Town with little notice. It would be too much of a target for enimies (Bowser in particular) to come in and invade. I would think this is a reasonable explanation, even though it is my opinion after all. [[User:Kameka|Kameka]]
#{{User|Wildgoose}} Per Kameka.

===Comments===

== "news board"  ==

The Toad Town in [[Paper Mario]] has a "news board" which is interesting. For example, [[K64]]'s name is revealed there. And a gossip-loving Toad often scribbles [[Princess Peach]] gossips.

Can there be an article listing all the writings, analogous to [[List of letters in Paper Mario]]?
{{unsigned|122.189.240.166}}

Nobody? I'm going to do a [[List of Toad Town News in Paper Mario]]. [[Special:Contributions/122.189.240.166|122.189.240.166]] 02:14, 30 July 2014 (EDT)

=="Toad Towns" in other games==

I believe Toad Town as a name and location is only mentioned in ''Paper Mario'' and ''Mario & Luigi'' series, while the town areas in the other games mentioned in this article (''Mario Party DS'', ''Mario Kart Wii'', and both ''Galaxies'') are not called "Toad Town". Take note that just having a town area in front of Peach's Castle may not qualify that area as Toad Town. Unless anyone objects, I recommend that the mentions of town areas not confirmed to be Toad Town should be removed from this article. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|Talk]]) ([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 08:45, 21 May 2016 (EDT)
:That is Toad Town. Just because it's not mentioned it doesn't mean it isn't it. Toad Town appears local to Peach's Castle and that is local. {{User:The RPG Gamer/sig}} 02:58, 15 October 2016 (EDT)

== Bowser in Toad Town ==

Can [[Bowser]] enter/terrorize Toad Town in [[Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story]]? Or can only [[Mario]] and [[Luigi]] enter?<br>
[[File:Mr. L.jpg|25px]] [[User:Ultimate Mr. L|<span style="color:green">Ultimate Mr. L</span>]] ([[User talk:Ultimate Mr. L|<span style="color:black">Talk</span>]]) 14:47, 4 October 2016 (EDT)
:It is more like passing though while playing as him. Only two Toads appear when Bowser enters the south entrance, but only one time. I am not sure about the north entrance. The southern Toads run away at the sight of Bowser. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 14:52, 4 October 2016 (EDT)
::Bowser can enter but he will not be able to jump. --{{User:A gossip-loving Toad/sig}}  06:37, 15 October 2016 (EDT)

== Infobox Image ==

{{talk}}
I don't think Toad Town is actually the confirmed location in Super Mario Galaxy, which is used in the infobox. I think an image of Toad Town in either Paper Mario, Paper Mario: The Origami King or Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story would be a lot more accurate. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 16:49, August 18, 2020 (EDT)
:I'm going to remove the Galaxy and Galaxy 2 sections, because whoever wrote that was assuming. <s>The infobox image looks ulgy too.</s> {{User:DarkNight/sig}} 17:10, August 18, 2020 (EDT)
::FYI, I re-added the sections because there are still other parts to figure out beforehand, such as navtemplates and infobox mentions. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 17:29, August 18, 2020 (EDT)
:::I think something like that would require a proposal. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
::::All references to Toad Town in SMG should definitely be removed unless we can find any sources that specifically call it Toad Town in those games. The article makes it very clear that currently it's nothing more than an assumption, only saying that it "resembles" Toad Town or "may be" Toad Town. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 19:02, August 18, 2020 (EDT)

==Remove content related to Super Mario Galaxy games==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|8-3|Remove content}}
Following some responses from the discussion I started above, it seems like all mentions of Toad Town in these games are better off removed. There do not seem to be any official references that the areas in these games are labeled as Toad Town, and the area in the first game is labeled as "Castle Gardens" (which even has [[Castle Gardens|its own article]]) in the pause menu. The article itself even speculates it being Toad Town.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Keyblade Master}}<br>
'''Deadline''': September 1, 2020, 23:59 GMT
===Remove===
#{{User|Keyblade Master}} Per Proposal
#{{User|DarkNight}} I was the one who brought it up. Per Proposal and my comment above. (As well as Waluigi Time's)
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} I think this proposal should've waited for further investigation to make sure nothing says it's Toad Town in either of these games, but with our current knowledge there's no reason to keep it here.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Best to just relegate the info to Castle Gardens, especially since there's no mention of Toad Town anywhere in those two games. Per all.
#{{User|Mister Wu}} [[User talk:Mister Wu/30th Anniversary Books Related Questions/Archive 1|The Japanese ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' also rather refers to both villages as the venue of the Star Festival]], so yeah, better to avoid implying there is a continuity with spin-offs that is not explicitly stated.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Benjaminkirsc}} Per all and proposal. No sources even said anything about any content of Super Mario Galaxy series.
#{{User|Superbound}} Per proposal
===Keep===
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Per LTL in the comments, the closest thing to a "direct" name is "Peach Castle Town," itself resembling an alternate Toad Town JP name anyway.
#{{user|LinkTheLefty}} What I said below: it seems more prudent to merge Castle Gardens with Toad Town, but that'll be a separate discussion at this rate.
#{{user|Seandwalsh}} Per LinkTheLefty. Couldn’t have put it better myself.

===Comments===
@darknight I meant I made the section, but yeah removing it was your idea. And I would have thought there would be a source found by now since these games have been out for 10 years. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
:You'd think so, but sometimes information is just assumed and then goes unnoticed until a proposal like this brings it to more people's attention, prompting a further dig into official sources. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:48, August 19, 2020 (EDT)
It isn't directly called "Toad Town", but has there ever been an instance where the town surrounding or next to Peach's Castle wasn't generally an incarnation of Toad Town? The Japanese name of the Castle Gardens is merely the same as Peach's Castle, which is true of at least [[Toad Town#Names in other languages|two]] [[Toad Town#Mario .26 Luigi: Superstar Saga .2F Mario .26 Luigi: Superstar Saga .2B Bowser.27s Minions|appearances]]. Incidentally, the English name "Castle Gardens" may itself come from the internal name <tt>PeachCastleGardenPlanet</tt> (shortened to <tt>PeachCastlePlanet</tt> in the second game), referring to the castle and its environment, and the town is split between <tt>PeachCastleTownAfterAttack</tt> and <tt>PeachCastleTownBeforeAttack</tt> (in addition to the starting <tt>PeachCastleTownGate</tt>) - which happens to make this situation sound similar to ''[[Talk:Mushroom Kingdom#Super_Mario_RPG_location.28s.29|Super Mario RPG]]''. If anything, I think the Castle Gardens article could merge with Toad Town. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:23, August 26, 2020 (EDT)
:That seems very debatable to me. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
::Which part? If you mean [[Castle Gardens#Names in other languages|Castle Gardens]] possibly coming from the filename in localization, [[Wire Trap#Names in other languages|it]] [[Spiny Piranha Plant#Names in other languages|isn't]] [[Morty Mole#Trivia|unheard]] [[Special:Diff/2916911|of]]. If you mean about Peach's Castle having another town near it, I'm genuinely curious if that happened, since much like the name of [[Peach's Castle#Names in other languages|Peach's Castle]], [[Toad Town#Names in other languages|Toad Town]] has evolved over time. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:50, August 26, 2020 (EDT)
:::I don't think there has been a differently-named town near Peach's Castle, but I mainly meant the part about merging Castle Gardens with this article. Another discussion would probably be needed for that. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
::::Yes, that will likely require a separate discussion. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 15:05, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
:The real problem in all of this is assuming continuity between the ''Paper Mario'' and ''Mario & Luigi'' series and the ''Super Mario'' series when said continuity isn’t even in the ''Super Mario'' series to begin with. Was the ''Super Mario Odyssey'' Peach’s Castle a reference to ''Super Mario 64''? Sure, and yet its surroundings were very different. And both games and ''Mario Kart 64'' (and 8) lacked a town around them. Assuming that these Peach Castle Garden are Toad Town requires assuming some canonicity so that the town near Peach’s Castle is always Toad Town. Either we turn the Toad Town page into a much less useful page about what is around Peach’s Castle or we assume canonicity despite our policy and say that Castle Gardens are Toad Town because it is usually done so in the RPGs. Both these choices are suboptimal at best, in my opinion.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 16:54, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
::At the same time, TOK uses a different JP name in-game than any previous ones. I think "using a concept so similar that having them separate is splitting hairs" and "assuming continuity" are two completely different things. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:24, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
:::Thing is, this page is already pretty big, splitting hairs would benefit the readers if they look for information only on ''Paper Mario'' or ''Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time'', but creating pages about concepts? I can see the point of it, more than once this was discussed, but I think that with the current wiki structure pages that put together a lot of related objects to deal with concepts only create humongous pages. It’s an interesting idea, and I personally like seeing the evolution of these concepts over time and the different takes the various development teams had on those, but we need a better way to do that.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:30, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
::::By "concepts" I am not being absolutely nebulous here; Mushroom Castle Town and Toad Town are just as the same basic thing as Mushroom Castle and Peach Castle. I doubt SM64 was trying to make continuity with SMRPG with "Princess lives in Mushroom Castle," but sense dictates they're the same thing regardless. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:49, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
:::::The main problem is that at that point we should be making a page about a very generic concept of “town that sometimes is found in front of Peach’s Castle”. There isn’t consistently a town in front of Peach’s Castle, the Japanese name often changes along with the appearance, sometimes the town isn’t even named, references between the various renditions are quite frequently nonexistent. I’m not fond of putting together what we consider to be “same things” in a page that is already generously sized. At this point I would rather go for a further split of the differently named Toad Towns, as it would make the individual pages easier to read and information easier to find for the readers.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:57, August 27, 2020 (EDT)
::::::We can, perhaps like we do for certain iterations of Bowser's Castle, but I see no reason to single out the ''Galaxy'' games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:05, August 28, 2020 (EDT)
:::::::We could maybe start with a review of the Japanese names used in the various games to better understand the state of the subject and of the page, if we can find some recurring names tied to recurring references we can start from those.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:42, August 28, 2020 (EDT)
::::::::It would probably look like splitting Star Hill - sure, we ''could'' do that, but there's multiple ways to go about it that aren't optimal, so it doesn't mean we ''should'' - or splitting Peach's Castle, which would be excessive. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:10, August 28, 2020 (EDT)
:::::::::Still, having a little review of what this page is about would be nice - if the page is already a page about a rather generic subject instead of a consistently named Toad Town then the criteria of what should be in the page and how the page should be organized change.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 13:58, August 28, 2020 (EDT)
@@ Line 99: / Line 99: @@
 == Infobox Image ==
+{{talk}}
 I don't think Toad Town is actually the confirmed location in Super Mario Galaxy, which is used in the infobox. I think an image of Toad Town in either Paper Mario, Paper Mario: The Origami King or Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story would be a lot more accurate. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 16:49, August 18, 2020 (EDT)
 :I'm going to remove the Galaxy and Galaxy 2 sections, because whoever wrote that was assuming. <s>The infobox image looks ulgy too.</s> {{User:DarkNight/sig}} 17:10, August 18, 2020 (EDT)
@@ Line 143: / Line 144: @@
 ::::::::It would probably look like splitting Star Hill - sure, we ''could'' do that, but there's multiple ways to go about it that aren't optimal, so it doesn't mean we ''should'' - or splitting Peach's Castle, which would be excessive. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:10, August 28, 2020 (EDT)
 :::::::::Still, having a little review of what this page is about would be nice - if the page is already a page about a rather generic subject instead of a consistently named Toad Town then the criteria of what should be in the page and how the page should be organized change.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 13:58, August 28, 2020 (EDT)
-==Bowser64==
-I'm planning to make pages for all the items in the shop that you can buy (In TOK Section.) [[User:Bowser64|Dreamy Bowser]] ([[User talk:Bowser64|talk]]) 07:59, March 24, 2021 (EDT)
-== Mario movie section? ==
-Question: should we put a section about the town appearing in the [[The Super Mario Bros. Movie|movie]]? Technically, the Monopoly board seems to count the town (Mushroom Heights) as a separate location from Peach's Castle, but I also see the [[Castle Gardens|''SMG'' version]] having its own page. {{User:Mariuigi_Khed/sig}} 12:38, April 26, 2023 (EDT)
-:Probably should have Mushroom Heights as a page and make short mention in the Toad Town page about it. {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:19, April 27, 2023 (EDT)
-== Toad town paper Mario in game map description ==
-In Paper Mario, does Toad Town have an in game description on the map in the main menu? If there is, what is it as most of the other main places in Paper Mario have their game map descriptions already added on their own pages?[[Special:Contributions/73.231.36.92|73.231.36.92]] 08:05, July 21, 2023 (EDT)