Editing Talk:Pyoro

== External Link ==

Er, is the link to [http://paperdingo9wiki.wetpaint.com/page/Pyoro the other Wiki] really needed? It doesn't tell more than the MarioWiki article already does, actually it has even less content. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 15:10, 16 December 2008 (EST)

== Title of DSiWare Game ==

The DSiWare version of Pyoro actually has a different title, it's called ''Tori to Mame'' (鳥とマメ), meaning "Bird and Beans" (mame can also mean "pea", though). That should get a separate article, it includes both Pyoro and Pyoro 2 from the original ''WarioWare'' and the playing area has been extended (compare [http://wariocompany.com/v1/fullgames/pyoro2/seeds.png old] and [http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/dsiware/kp6j/img/pic_009.jpg new]). Actually, all Pyoro mini-games deserve own articles. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 08:21, 17 December 2008 (EST)
==DIY==
Is there any Pyoro-Game in Wario Ware: D.I.Y.?[[User:EbrithilBowser|EbrithilBowser]] 09:34, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

No. {{User|Pseudo-dino}}

==Pyoro Colors==
Are there more colors for Pyoro rather than Red, Yellow and Green? --[[Special:Contributions/64.33.135.109|64.33.135.109]] 08:51, September 20, 2021 (EDT)

==Pyoro X==
I was wondering, if the Smash Wiki has a list for a lot of leaks regarding the Super Smash Bros Series and includes even pages for specific leakers like Vergeben, shouldn't Pyoro X also have a page either in this wiki or another general Nintendo one? {{Unsigned|201.13.63.80}}
:No. The Mario Wiki only covers official material, as well as maybe fan-made content officially acknowledged by Nintendo. Leakers don't get pages. {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 15:54, February 2, 2024 (EST)


==Treat ''Pyoro'' as a series==
{{Settled TPP}}
''Pyoro'' is both a fictional series of video games and a real series of playable minigames. This wiki gives the ''Pyoro'' games full coverage, as it should, but ''Pyoro'' articles are unusually awkward to navigate. There is no article about the ''Pyoro'' series, no navigational template directing readers to our articles about entries in the ''Pyoro'' series, and not even a category for entries in the ''Pyoro'' series. The only real way to find all the ''Pyoro'' articles in one place is from ''this'' article, which helpfully has a list of every ''Pyoro'' game.

However, I believe ''Pyoro'' should be given the same treatment as other "real" series on this wiki. The list of ''Pyoro'' games on this article should be split off and expanded into its own "''Pyoro'' (series)" page covering both the minigames themselves and their role as a fictional game series within the stories of the ''WarioWare'' games, and other standard navigational features should be added to make navigating ''Pyoro''-related articles as seamless as navigating articles about other series this wiki covers.

'''Proposer''': {{User|JanMisali}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <s>August 18, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)</s> <s>Extended to August 25, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)</s> Extended to September 1, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)

===Split the list of ''Pyoro'' games into its own article===
{{Proposal outcome|passed|9-5|Split ''Pyoro'' games into an article}}
'''Deadline''': <s>August 18, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)</s> <s>Extended to August 25, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)</s> Extended to September 1, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)

;Support
#{{User|JanMisali}} As proposer.
#{{User|Salmancer}} It's a plot relevant concept: Wario keeps coming back to the gaming industry because this bird's games keep doing numbers. We like covering fictional objects in games, Pyoro video games are certainly fictional objects. It would help communicate things to readers, like having descriptions of the recurring items and characters that make up Pyoro's world just like our articles on real series. "Once and only once" is currently deader than disco, so redundancy with minigame articles is not a problem. We have articles about groups of levels, [[Enemy Course]], [[Captain Toad's Adventures]], [[World 8-Hand Traps]], [[Switch Palace]], [[List of shops in Paper Mario: Sticker Star]]. I see no reason to not go ahead!
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per Salmancer! even if they're not "actual games", the "Pyoro series" essentially amounts to a recurring mode, and those get articles.
#{{User|Mario}} Iffy. I see utility of having a "List of Pyoro games/List of Pyoro minigames" that summarizes a bit of every game in a table format or something like that, which I guess is more involved than most Mario Party minigames (but not quite all of them) which have just a simple list likely due to how numerous it is. Just don't want a page that's called "Pyoro (series)" since it's just misleading, but even if it comes to that name, it's better we have a page of that content to begin with than not. Sure, you can find the indepth information in the Pyoro article, but why not just have the information in both the Pyoro article and that list article? 
#{{User|Tails777}} Per Salmancer.
#{{User|Okapii}} Per Salamancer, the Pyoro games are both a recurring mode (of sorts) and a recurring plot element of the wider WarioWare series.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Breaking the tie. Per all.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} With some more thought--and more importantly, seeing how the other polls turned out--we think a Pyoro series page would be nice. While it'd definitely be a bit strange to have a page on a series of minigames, it's no stranger than, say, [[Mycom BASIC Magazine|having a page on a magazine because it happened to be one of the primary sources on the Japanese home computer games]]. We have far more fringe pages than this, is what we're getting at.
#{{User|Kirbeat}} I've been wanting this to happen. I understand that this is a fictional game series, not a "real" one. However, we are able to play most if not every known game inside that series, making them more "real" games. The game series is also a plot point that is expanded across several games, so having a series article would serve for that too. It makes sense both narratively and practically.

;Oppose
#{{User|YoYo}} They're not actual games, they're fundamentally just levels in a bigger series. If this was to pass that'd mean every other instance of levels in games that can be grouped together all being treated identically. Where is the line drawn then??
#{{User|Hewer}} We don't need a "series" article to cover a group of related minigames. Treating this like a "series" when it only has [[Bird & Beans|one actual game]] is misleading.
#{{User|Rykitu|Rykitu R}} Pyoro is a game series in the ''WarioWare'' universe. The only Pyoro game in this universe is [[Bird & Beans]]. One game is not a series.
#{{User|SComic}} Not only do I agree with all of the above opposing statements, but as you said all the games can be found in the Pyoro article, which isn't as confusing as you're saying it is. I feel like most people can find that article easily when looking for a list of games.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per all.
<s>#{{User|Camwoodstock}} We disagree with the need for a unified page treating this as a series, when these are a set of minigames.</s>

===Create a navigational template for ''Pyoro'' games===
{{Proposal outcome|passed|7-2|Create navigation template}}
'''Deadline''': August 18, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)

;Support
#{{User|JanMisali}} As proposer.
#{{User|Hewer}} This probably would be a better way of linking the Pyoro articles than a faux "series" page.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} This, on the other hand, we can get behind; a dedicated navbox for Pyoro minigames and stuff in them has a much simpler, but much more coherent form factor. Though, this does also cause a very funny question... Are we going to need dedicated Pyoro series colors in the [[MarioWiki:Navigation templates#Chart|Navbox template palette]] (and, provided our proposal passes for it, the series table palettes) if this option passes? Not that we're complaining, and if it came to it, we'd be happy to help come up with a set of colors for that (unless jan Misali wants to do that for one reason or another), but that'd be ''really'' funny.
#{{User|Rykitu|Rykitu S}} Per Camewoodstock.
#{{User|Salmancer}} I mean, yeah, if I agree to the maximum of giving this a series page I kind of also inherently agree to this.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per all.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per all.

;Oppose
#{{User|YoYo}} per my reasoning in the first section.
#{{User|SComic}} Do I just not understand what this section is proposing or does this not make sense if we aren't making an article. You can easily navigate using the Pyoro article, plus there's tons of useful nav boxes for the user anyway

===Create a category for ''Pyoro'' games===
{{Proposal outcome|passed|8-1|Create category}}
'''Deadline''': August 18, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)

;Support
#{{User|JanMisali}} As proposer.
#{{User|Hewer}} Sure.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} ...This one doesn't already exist? Per our rationale for a navbox; a category is so dang simple to deploy, it makes us surprised we didn't have one before.
#{{User|Rykitu|Rykitu T}} Per Camwoodstock again.
#{{User|Salmancer}} <s>GO TO [[#Support]]</s> Well that gag didn't work. Its the same reason as my navigation template vote.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per all.
#{{User|Mario}} If the issue is mostly finding all the games in one spot, then this is the most obvious solution.
#{{User|Tails777}} For sure. A recurring thing across the WarioWare games like this should at least get a category.

;Oppose
#{{User|YoYo}} per my reasoning in the first section...

===Include the ''Pyoro'' series in Template:Game series and Category:Game series===
{{Proposal outcome|failed|0-8|Do not include}}
'''Deadline''': August 18, 2025, 23:59 (UTC)

;Support

;Oppose
#{{User|JanMisali}} I've included this as part of the proposal because it's part of how game series on this wiki are handled, but the nonfictional status of the ''Pyoro'' series as a series of ''minigames'' (with the singular exception of ''[[Bird & Beans]]'') makes this not feel right.
#{{User|YoYo}} per the same reasoning as others....
#{{User|Hewer}} Per
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all, and our vote against a dedicated series page.
#{{User|Rykitu|Rykitu W}} Per.
#{{User|Salmancer}} Wait what? I'm opposing this? Well... Putting Pyoro in these templates and categories could confuse non-enfranchised people into thinking Pyoro is a series of real video games that are also minigames in ''WarioWare'', and that's dangerous. We shouldn't do that, even if the keyfabe is trying to convince us we should.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per all.

===''Pyoro'' series proposal comments===
{{@|YoYo}} Can you elaborate what you mean by "levels"? "The ''Pyoro'' series" is two things: a fictional series of video games with story relevance to the ''WarioWare'' series and a real series of minigames playable within the ''WarioWare'' series. I don't think it makes sense to call any of the ''Pyoro'' minigames "levels" of the ''WarioWare'' games they're contained within, but even disregarding that, we ''do'' have navigational templates grouping the ''microgames'' of the ''WarioWare'' series by the characters they're associated with, and a proposal recently passed with no opposition suggesting that categories should be created to group ''WarioWare'' microgames by genre. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 14:27, August 4, 2025 (EDT)

I notice the proposal writes ''Pyoro'' in italics, which the wiki doesn't as far as I can tell. Does this proposal intend to change that? (I'd oppose this personally, since we don't write any other minigames in italics.) {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:15, August 4, 2025 (EDT)
:My idea is "''Pyoro''" in italics would be used to refer to the series in the in-fiction context (see [[Jump Man (fictional game)|''Jump Man'' (fictional game)]] with the same usage, as well as the way the fictional ''Pyoro'' games are already referred to in italics in the story sections of the ''[[WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$!]]'' and ''[[WarioWare Gold]]'' articles) and that "Pyoro" (no italics) would continue to be used for the actual minigames in a non-fictional context. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 15:21, August 4, 2025 (EDT)
::I guess that works, though I'll point out the wiki is currently not completely consistent with italicisation of fictional works ([[Super Luigi (series)|Super Luigi]] is an example that used to be italicised but was changed to normal formatting in 2021). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 20:38, August 4, 2025 (EDT)

{{@|Camwoodstock}} [[Template:B&B]] uses the standard ''WarioWare'' template colors, so I'd imagine a "Pyoro games" navigational template would use those colors too. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 15:35, August 4, 2025 (EDT)
:That works for us! Unless someone out there ''really'' feels like Pyoro needs its own colors, we'll probably just default to the ''WarioWare'' ones. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:08, August 4, 2025 (EDT)

@Salmancer: If we were making this Pyoro series article from the perspective of it being a fictional subject, I'd rather we made it more like a fictional subject article instead of a "series" article with the identifier and such, as I think it could be misleading otherwise. Maybe take after [[Jump Man (fictional game)]] and do "Pyoro (fictional series)" or something. (Then again, we do have [[Super Luigi (series)]], but at least the presentation of that article is nothing like our articles on real game series.) {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:01, August 6, 2025 (EDT)
:We could name it Pyoro (minigame series) as a hedge against confusion. This is technically against the proposal body, but surely the exact name of the page isn't that important. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 22:58, August 7, 2025 (EDT)
::Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to a different name for the article itself, but I personally think "''Pyoro'' (series)" is the best option, just because the ideal name for the subject is "''Pyoro''" (with or without italics) and the shortest identifier that distinguishes it from the character is "(series)". It's not strictly necessary to say in the title of the article what type of series it is. But again, if everyone else prefers a more specific article title I'd be fine with that. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 10:26, August 8, 2025 (EDT)

@YoYo If there should be a line for "level groups that have articles" vs "level groups that don't have articles", and I think the loss of "once and only once" implies there shouldn't be, I think its "Would a reader laugh at it?". "First level" is a defined group of levels in ''[[Donkey Kong Country Returns]]'', through the Prima guide. I'd laugh at "first level" so no article. My definition of silly says levels need to pass two criteria: "Has a mechanical distinction from a normal level" and "is not just a fancy name for a boss battle". The kinds of things that fail either of these criteria are better served being noted in the respective game's article's section on "levels". So if we use ''[[Mario vs Donkey Kong]]'' as a measure: "Mini-Mario level" passes, but "Donkey Kong level" fails. And in the broader [[Mario vs. Donkey Kong (series)|series]], "Multi-Door level" passes but "whatever the name is for a level with one [[Goal Door (Mario vs. Donkey Kong series)|Goal Door]]" fails. And for ''[[Super Mario 64]]'', everything in [[Super Mario 64#Overview]] passes except for "Normal Course". [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 22:58, August 7, 2025 (EDT)
:To demonstrate my point of people generally being in favor of having articles for recurring groups of levels, a Discord conversation on July 16th in the wiki editing channel was in favor of keeping [[Galaxy]], an article that is literally "every level in [[Super Mario Galaxy|one game]], and every level in [[Super Mario Galaxy 2|the sequel to that game]]". ("Galaxy" would fail my criteria, because its just "level".) Uh, to bring it back here, Pyoro minigames have notable distinguishing characteristics from other minigames, between their once per game nature, (usually) being an unlock for playing every microgame, and the character and branding of Pyoro. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 23:15, August 7, 2025 (EDT)

{{@|SComic}} To be clear, when you say "tons of useful nav boxes" here, which ones are you talking about? Because there is not currently a navigational template that contains links to every ''Pyoro'' game. [[Pyoro W]] is currently two hyperlinks away from [[Pyoro S]], while [[Super Mario 64 DS (microgame)]] links directly to every single other 9-Volt microgame in a navigational template. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 00:14, August 12, 2025 (EDT)

Out of curiosity, would the creation of a ''Pyoro'' category and navbox have to wait until after all polls conclude, or could those be done now? {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 15:47, August 20, 2025 (EDT)
:[[Talk:Mario Kart (series)#Group Tour and Live: Home Circuit with the other games|This proposal]] had the first option implemented when it passed weeks before the second option concluded, so yes it can happen now if we're following that precedent. No need to delay if we've already achieved a consensus to make the change. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:16, August 21, 2025 (EDT)

@Camwoodstock: How does that comparison work? I don't think anyone was arguing that the reason for not giving the Pyoro series a page is because the subject falls outside the wiki's coverage. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:23, August 30, 2025 (EDT)
:It's moreso about how we already have some oddly specific articles because covering them helps with a better view of other, more overtly Mario-related media, less so about ''specifically'' the Mycom BASIC page being specifically applicable to the concept of a Pyoro series page. ;P {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 12:32, August 30, 2025 (EDT)
::Right, but no one's saying that a lack of relevance to the Mario franchise is the reason for not giving the Pyoro series an article. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 14:42, August 30, 2025 (EDT)