Editing Talk:Pink Fuzzy

Why was this article unstruck through on [[PipeProject:Paper Mario Enemies]]? It has a complete tattle, picture and background info. <span style="font-family:Kunstler Script; color:#006633;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Wayoshi|W]]'''ayoshi</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Wayoshi|T]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Wayoshi|C]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Emailuser/Wayoshi|@]] )</small> 19:44, 16 September 2006 (EDT)

==Pink Fuzzy==
It would definitely make sense to move this article to Pink Fuzzy. If the enemy was only used in two games and had different names in those games, then the newest game's name should be chosen for the article. It's the same case as with [[Green Fuzzy]]. {{User:VOIDTHIS/sig}} 2:35, 27 May 2018 (CEST)
:Are they really the same species? If the only trait they have in common is color and that they are both derived from Fuzzies, I feel like we can split it. Flower Fuzzies are pretty clearly defined by their ability to drain, well, Flowers. [[Special:Contributions/208.95.51.107|208.95.51.107]] 01:06, 19 October 2018 (EDT)
::From what I can tell, the Japanese name is still Flower Chorobon. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:27, 19 October 2018 (EDT)
:::So, someone that is ranked should rename over redirect. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:46, 19 October 2018 (EDT)
::Maybe it should be left like that? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 04:41, 20 October 2018 (EDT)
:::The current English name is Pink Fuzzy, so no, it should be moved. Please stop second-guessing yourself on everything. Don't mean to be rude, but it seems like you're just trying to bump subtly. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 05:12, 20 October 2018 (EDT)
::How can i renname it over redirect then? Only ranked user can? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 05:13, 20 October 2018 (EDT)
:::Just put a delete template on the redirect. The rest will follow. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 05:34, 20 October 2018 (EDT)
::::I just checked some Japanese sites, and the SPM version is called ピンクチョロボン, or Pink Chorobon. --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 12:54, August 7, 2019 (EDT)
:::::Can you confirm it from the game itself? We've had Japanese websites give incorrect info in the past. Barring that, the internal name in ''The Thousand-Year Door'' (<tt>c_chorobon_f</tt>) and ''Super Paper Mario'' (<tt>e_chorobon_f</tt>) is basically the same last I checked, so the rename seems to be due to game's lack of FP. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:18, August 7, 2019 (EDT)
::::::Here's a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmnG1YznKq0&t=257s video] showing the Japanese card, with the name ピンクチョロボン clearly visible. --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 15:16, August 7, 2019 (EDT)
So they have different names in Japanese and English, and they attack differently between games. At this point, their only similarity is appearance. I think these should be split. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 16:36, February 27, 2020 (EST)
::Proposal, or are we all in pre-emptive agreement to just do? [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 16:44, February 27, 2020 (EST)
:::I think a proposal's probably the safest option. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 14:58, February 28, 2020 (EST)

==Split Flower Fuzzy and Pink Fuzzy==
{{TPP}}

The only reason why these enemies share a page is because the wiki assumed SPM's Pink Fuzzies were a rename, similar to what happened to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 47#Merge Redundant Paper Mario Items|various items in the same game]]. To be fair, it makes sense: both enemies look identical, and since SPM doesn't have FP, it's logical that Flower Fuzzies would get a name change and lose their main gimmick. However, considering they also have different Japanese names, it seems more likely to me that this is simply a reused design (albeit probably as a callback to TTYD), but ''not'' the same enemy. At this point, the ''only'' thing these two Fuzzies have in common is their color, which doesn't make them the same thing (see [[Jungle Fuzzy]] and [[Gold Fuzzy]]).

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Niiue}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' March 13, 2020, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Niiue}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per all.
#{{User|Trig Jegman}} yep. per all.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} As long as there is an actual source for the Japanese name, i'd support it.
#{{User|Alex95}} - Per proposal.
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} - Per all.
<s>{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} If they wanted a previous stronger Fuzzy, it's not like they didn't have [[Green Fuzzy|a stronger one that had gone through an English name change and never had anything to do with flowers]], as well as [[Gold Fuzzy|''another'' stronger one that also didn't have any sort of parasitic ability anyway]]. There would be literally no reason to use Flower Fuzzy specifically and then change its name due to the name being irrelevant when better alternatives existed.</s>

===Oppose===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Graphically, [[:File:SPMPinkFuzzy.png|Pink Fuzzy]] looks exactly the same as [[:File:Pink Fuzzyball.png|Flower Fuzzy]], just with more standard, blackened outlines for the eyes and mouth (note that Gold Fuzzy has the same design difference between the [[:File:PMTTYD Gold Fuzzy Sprite.png|sprite]] and [[:File:PMTTYD Gold Fuzzy Artwork.png|artwork]], so for all intents and purposes, Flower Fuzzy and Pink Fuzzy are identical). There's really no need for the ''Super Paper Mario'' developers to use Gold Fuzzy (which was a boss instead of a regular enemy) because the Fuzzies' general parasitic sucking trait was removed by then and only came up in the first two ''Paper Mario'' games. That's why Flower Fuzzy necessitated renaming after its color like most Fuzzies: its old name specifically referred to an attack method which was also removed in gameplay. Additionally, Pink Fuzzy's filename (<tt>e_chorobon_f</tt>) is based on Flower Fuzzy's (<tt>c_chorobon_f</tt>), just with the first letter changed to reflect updated file structure, and both Green Fuzzy (<tt>c_chorobon_g</tt>) and Gold Fuzzy (<tt>c_chorobon_k</tt>) are unused in ''Super Paper Mario'' (the former is <tt>e_chorobon_g</tt> and the latter is <tt>e_chorobon_y</tt>, suggesting that ''kin'' [gold] was to be repurposed yellow). As for why they'd even bother turning Flower Fuzzy into Pink Fuzzy in the first place, my guess is there may have been an internal memo to retroactively erase the parasitic characteristics since it never existed elsewhere.
#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}} Per LTL above.

===Comments===
Addendum: This can also be considered a similar situation to Pokey Mummy and Poison Pokey, since they took what was essentially the same enemy and changed its name because it didn't make sense in the new context, effectively making a new replacement enemy. (Why they didn't do this with "Moon" Cleft in SPM is anyone's guess, coulda just named them Cleft....) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:47, March 1, 2020 (EST)
:I have a possible explanation for Moon Cleft: in both games, the base file contains the assets for Moon Cleft (<tt>c_sinemon</tt> in the former and <tt>e_sinemon</tt> in the latter), while <tt>c_sinemon_w</tt> (TTYD) / <tt>e_sinemon_w</tt> (SPM), with <tt>w</tt> presumably standing for "white", is regular Cleft. So from a developmental point of view, the original Cleft designed was Moon Cleft. That explains why the Cleft from the original ''Paper Mario'' has the palette given to Moon Cleft (reminder that they appear natively in Boggly Woods, which is also where that [[Pale Piranha|odd monochrome version of Piranha Plant]] is from, meaning that version of Cleft is technically new and the original version of Cleft "became" Moon Cleft). And on that note, Bald Cleft (<tt>c_sinnosuke</tt>) reappears in ''Super Paper Mario'' (<tt>e_sinnosuke</tt>), while Hyper Cleft (<tt>c_sinnosuke_h</tt>), like regular Cleft, is also unused in ''Super Paper Mario'' (<tt>e_sinnosuke_h</tt>). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:04, March 13, 2020 (EDT)
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 ==Split Flower Fuzzy and Pink Fuzzy==
-{{SettledTPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{ProposalOutcome|passed|7-2|split}}
 The only reason why these enemies share a page is because the wiki assumed SPM's Pink Fuzzies were a rename, similar to what happened to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 47#Merge Redundant Paper Mario Items|various items in the same game]]. To be fair, it makes sense: both enemies look identical, and since SPM doesn't have FP, it's logical that Flower Fuzzies would get a name change and lose their main gimmick. However, considering they also have different Japanese names, it seems more likely to me that this is simply a reused design (albeit probably as a callback to TTYD), but ''not'' the same enemy. At this point, the ''only'' thing these two Fuzzies have in common is their color, which doesn't make them the same thing (see [[Jungle Fuzzy]] and [[Gold Fuzzy]]).