Editing Talk:Crow
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== Split Luigi's Mansion series crows (and [[frog]]s) == | == Split Luigi's Mansion series crows (and [[frog]]s) == | ||
{{ | {{TPP}} | ||
This proposal aims to split the crow enemy from Luigi's Mansion 2 and 3 into its own page, titled "{{Fake link|Crow (Luigi's Mansion series)}}". These crows are a recurring enemy with a unique Japanese <small>(and Chinese and Korean)</small> name. While these games are developed by Next Level Games, they appear to have been written in Japanese originally <small>(I think? LM2's English translation is weird enough for me to wonder if it even is a translation or if the two scripts were written in parallel, but probably not)</small>, and the other pest enemies have similarly generic English names (mouse, bat...). | This proposal aims to split the crow enemy from Luigi's Mansion 2 and 3 into its own page, titled "{{Fake link|Crow (Luigi's Mansion series)}}". These crows are a recurring enemy with a unique Japanese <small>(and Chinese and Korean)</small> name. While these games are developed by Next Level Games, they appear to have been written in Japanese originally <small>(I think? LM2's English translation is weird enough for me to wonder if it even is a translation or if the two scripts were written in parallel, but probably not)</small>, and the other pest enemies have similarly generic English names (mouse, bat...). | ||
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#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - If we have multiple pages for bats that are given distinct names in Japanese but standard names in English, it only makes sense to follow suit here. Plus, the frogs in ''Yoshi's Story'' and several examples of jellyfish. | #{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - If we have multiple pages for bats that are given distinct names in Japanese but standard names in English, it only makes sense to follow suit here. Plus, the frogs in ''Yoshi's Story'' and several examples of jellyfish. | ||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all. | #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all. | ||
===Oppose=== | ===Oppose=== | ||
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#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Opposing for the sake of simplicity. The only reason this is being considered is different Japanese names, but other than that... they're just crows and frogs, casual readers would most likely be looking for them here and I don't see a benefit to splitting. I don't think the Yoshi's Story frog should be split either. | #{{User|Waluigi Time}} Opposing for the sake of simplicity. The only reason this is being considered is different Japanese names, but other than that... they're just crows and frogs, casual readers would most likely be looking for them here and I don't see a benefit to splitting. I don't think the Yoshi's Story frog should be split either. | ||
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} The Japanese name of the crows in the Luigi's Mansion series is... "crow". Even if other Mario games identify crows as ''watarigarasu'' ("ravens") in Japanese, both crows and ravens are nebulous groupings within just one genus of birds, i.e. they have so many intertwined traits in real life that arguing whether a fictional crow-like character was based on whatever real species of corvid is splitting hairs immensely and has no place on a wiki about a video game franchise. | #{{User|Koopa con Carne}} The Japanese name of the crows in the Luigi's Mansion series is... "crow". Even if other Mario games identify crows as ''watarigarasu'' ("ravens") in Japanese, both crows and ravens are nebulous groupings within just one genus of birds, i.e. they have so many intertwined traits in real life that arguing whether a fictional crow-like character was based on whatever real species of corvid is splitting hairs immensely and has no place on a wiki about a video game franchise. | ||
#{{User|DrippingYellow}} The game was mainly developed by a [[Next Level Games|Canadian company]], with Nintendo staff only being in "Supervisor" roles according to the credits. | #{{User|DrippingYellow}} The game was mainly developed by a [[Next Level Games|Canadian company]], with Nintendo staff only being in "Supervisor" roles according to the credits. So unless we find out that the Japanese name is used internally in the files or something (as is the case with [[Robomb]]s), any talk of the developers "intending" these to be a unique species compared to normal animals just seems like speculation. | ||
#{{User|Dark-Boy-1up}} I prefer simplicity for casual viewers over going all nitty gritty on some animals that are just the same but do different things than the others. | #{{User|Dark-Boy-1up}} I prefer simplicity for casual viewers over going all nitty gritty on some animals that are just the same but do different things than the others. | ||
===Comments=== | ===Comments=== | ||
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:::Not at all. In fact, I've had plenty of arguments on here that the wiki should prioritize Japanese names if the creator of these names and their described concepts is Japanese, but that's usually just a proxy for the "author's intent" principle I'd like to push. In the currently-discussed fable of the Frog and the Crow, I'm positive their authors are simply giving them cute names, with no statement whatsoever that they're meant to pertain to the Mario brand specifically; [[Bat (Luigi's Mansion series)]] is in a similar boat. I'm not sure what point you're making with Scaredy Rat since that's clearly not a generic enemy; the generic [[mouse]] species the wiki has an article for has altogether different names in all localizations, Japanese included, so merging that with Scaredy Rat is off the table entirely. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:52, January 9, 2024 (EST) | :::Not at all. In fact, I've had plenty of arguments on here that the wiki should prioritize Japanese names if the creator of these names and their described concepts is Japanese, but that's usually just a proxy for the "author's intent" principle I'd like to push. In the currently-discussed fable of the Frog and the Crow, I'm positive their authors are simply giving them cute names, with no statement whatsoever that they're meant to pertain to the Mario brand specifically; [[Bat (Luigi's Mansion series)]] is in a similar boat. I'm not sure what point you're making with Scaredy Rat since that's clearly not a generic enemy; the generic [[mouse]] species the wiki has an article for has altogether different names in all localizations, Japanese included, so merging that with Scaredy Rat is off the table entirely. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:52, January 9, 2024 (EST) | ||
::::The point I'm trying to make is that, if you ignore the localizations, Scaredy Rat is just another somewhat cartoony-looking normal animal named after an onomatopoeia. Same thing with [[Frog Pirate]] (which might or might not also be called "Froggy"(?) in which case it would even have a somewhat generic name in English). Or even [[Swoop]] if you count wing noises. See what I mean? I'm not saying to merge any of those, my point is that enemies that are based on regular animals, look like regular animals, and are named after the animal or some noise the animal makes are far from rare. And that "generic mouse species" you mention isn't that generic either. Again it has a unique Japanese name, and it will probably be getting merged to a ghost enemy soon anyway... Uh, sorry my response is so messy, by the way. This topic is getting too confusing for a more structured response, as far as my abilities are concerned. I hope you get what I'm trying to say. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 07:28, January 12, 2024 (EST) | ::::The point I'm trying to make is that, if you ignore the localizations, Scaredy Rat is just another somewhat cartoony-looking normal animal named after an onomatopoeia. Same thing with [[Frog Pirate]] (which might or might not also be called "Froggy"(?) in which case it would even have a somewhat generic name in English). Or even [[Swoop]] if you count wing noises. See what I mean? I'm not saying to merge any of those, my point is that enemies that are based on regular animals, look like regular animals, and are named after the animal or some noise the animal makes are far from rare. And that "generic mouse species" you mention isn't that generic either. Again it has a unique Japanese name, and it will probably be getting merged to a ghost enemy soon anyway... Uh, sorry my response is so messy, by the way. This topic is getting too confusing for a more structured response, as far as my abilities are concerned. I hope you get what I'm trying to say. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 07:28, January 12, 2024 (EST) | ||